Another tournament, another earlier-than-should-be loss. This time to Bennteau in the quarters.

Ugh.

What does Andy need to do to get back to a real top player who can really challenge for number one? Or at least one who can win more consistently, even in the lower tier events?

Let's all add our 2¢.

I think a lot of it has to do with what kind of player he is, what he can do natually, and what he can't, and the wisdom to know the difference... wink

Could Andy Roddick become a serve-volleyer? In this stage of his career, I personally don't think so. This would have to have been something he's been doing for much longer during his formative years as a player. There's no doubt in my mind that with a serve like his, he could've been another Pete Sampras if he'd been serve-volleying all his life, unfortunately he hasn't. I think he could add it to his game more often, make it slightly more than occasional, but certainly not his bread and butter.

(I'm trying to rack my brain to find any player, male or female that completely changed their style of game over the years, and I can't recall one. Anyone??)

So, my 2¢...serve-volley a little more often to mix it up, but don't be silly trying to do it all the time. Also, HIT the backhand as though you mean it. Slicing almost everything is getting old and not working.

I don't think his speed and fitness are a factor.

I think Andy tries too hard to knock people off the court with his serve. If he mixed in slower balls more often, or used his second serve kicker as a surprise first serve, and move the serve all over the box ... opponents wouldn't be able to find their rhythm against him as easily. He needs to be more more like a great baseball pitcher and not rely on the fastball the majority of the time.

Because, as we've seen lately, opponents can sort of zone in on the speed of his serve and adjust to getting the ball back, his backhand side is still very vulnerable. That also puts more pressure on your forehand side and, hence, causes you to go for too much when you finally do see the shot you've been waiting to hit.

Well, we helped get Amelie turned around wink , so why not with Andy?

Andy's game and play is so predictable even I can say what's coming. As G said, he must add variety to his serve. Curves and change-ups are essential, even with a fast ball like he has. Essential, and without being predictible each time. Kickers, slice, flat, hard, down the T, out wide, left hip, right hip....Andy's serve is so good, he should be able to do more with it.

I think he can try to vary his ground game in the same vein. He might hit very hard, but he doesn't seem to be deep enough. Harder to do, but....taking a little pace off for control and placement, and make the opponent adjust to depth, speed and/or spin difference.

Andy will never be a serve and volleyer. But with his serve, particularly if he takes a little off and goes for a kicker, he could make it into volleying position. Doing that occasionally (even if he's passed sometimes) will give his opponent something else to think about. Then on his next kicker he might not go in, but still draw a weaker return, setting up his next groundstroke.

Obviously his limitations are relative to the best of the best. But Andy is not strong at volleying....he just doesn't seem to react well at the net. He also doesn't trust himself there. He might try it, but not with the belief that he'll win the point.

One player changed her game...not completely, but dynamically. In 1990, when Gaby finally reached the point of total frustration, she stopped playing high bouncing heavy topspin red clay tennis, and starting attacking. She attacked not only on her ground strokes, but also by coming to net. Sometimes behind some pretty weak approaches. But once she bought into it, she did it believing she would win the point. Of course, she was a gifted player at the net, which Andy is not. But the belief to go for it has a huge impact.

Easy for me to say....but Andy must figure out how to add the variety into his game so his opponents won't get grooved using his power and pace against him. Varying the pace, the spin, the direction, the angles....don't know if he can do it at the top level against the best (Federer, Hewitt, Nadal, ...) but he should be able to against players below the top 10.

Hope it helps, Andy.

Good points above about what Roddick can do. Fundmentally, I think his problem at the moment is simply confidence.

His problem really centers around his backhand, or rather, which backhand to play. The slice is fine occasionally, for change of pace, against those power players who feed off power.It can be worked on for depth and accuracy and I believe he is hitting so much slice on his backhand becuase he has a loss of confidence on the double-handed backhander. Roddick has a technical problem with the double-hander whereas he prepares early, and well, but remains very stiff and upright. The racquet head speed is generated only from his waist/shoulders.

The best produced double hander in the game today is Dementieva's, she gets very deep knee bend, drives up through the ball and she uses her whole body to generate power and accuracy. Good footwook is needed to get in position and it needs to be modified for grass by reducing the back-swing. That is what I believe Roddick should concentrate on improving so then he would not get out of position so often running around his backhand.

It is difficult for Roddick to develop a serve/volley game now, as Tennis Guy said, that is instinctive and learnt very early.Roddick has a reasonable under-sliced backhand stop volley but he cannot play orthodox volleys, punched and hit in front of the body because of his western grip. It would require a grip change as he approached the net, ok after a power drive where there is more time but very difficult on serve/volley.I understand Roche coached Lendl to do this in his attempts to land the Wimbledon title. Alas.

I agree with G4G when Roddick's serve is not on song, back off the power til the rhythm is there. He has one of the great serves in the game now and when he is powering down the aces, the rest of his game just picks up, hence my initial comment about confidence. I don't know that players now can necessarily read his serve, if his display against Murray was an indication, they are just getting to look at more second serves.He disguises direction quite well but doesn't have a slider or a kicker as yet, just a sheer power flat delivery.

Finally I wonder if his concentraion is there at the moment with changing coaches again and now being coached by a younger brother!! Plus his relationship with Sharapova......I can't vouch personally but long, leggy beautiful blonde females, I understand, can play havoc with the mind.

[ February 27, 2006, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: xanthos ]

Two cents:

1) Watch and study tapes of some of the greatest slice backhands in the game- Andy needs to add this tool to his game in a more effective manner. It will break the monotony of his power and let him get to net better.

2) Play less tournaments. Play more doubles in the smaller number of tournaments. This will require you to add more flexibility to your serve, return of serve and net game.

3) Hire Justine Henin-Hardenne's fitness coach. When you know your body is to a level where it will not shut down and break up your form when you ge fatigued, you will be more confident for every single shot and point.

I love this topic! I think Andy should dump his brother and hire the boys of OUTSPORTS to be his new coach. Imagine us watching from the friends' box at Wimbledon!

My two cents:

It's very frustrating to watch Andy these days. I always find myself rooting for him, but I really think he has lost a fundamental understanding of what makes him great. It seems he would rather prove that his tennis is pretty instead of winning matches.

Yes, his opponents are reading his big serve better. And yes, his backhand is somewhat of a liability. But really neither should matter.

He needs to stop being lazy, run around more balls and start whacking his forehand again. Not topspin forehands that land on the service line, but flat hard deep forehands that create openings. He has to realize he is not an artistic player. He is a simple guy who wins with brute force and athleticism...big serve, big forehand. Short, simple points.

It's not gonna be a pretty style, but it's gonna win matches. So, Andy, stop worrying about looking pretty on the court. You'll have plenty of time to look pretty on magazine covers.

And not only will your new OUTSPORTS coaches help with your tennis, we'll help dress you too!

Andy withdrew from the Tennis Channel Open citing "fatigue". He must be tired of losing, becuase he sure isn't tired from playing ...

No one replied to my thread about the Tennis Channel Open, but speaking of, not only is it Mixed Gender but also anyone can enter. So ... theoretically ... my sorry C-level behind could somehow come through and end up playing a top-ranked player. It's so nutty.

Too bad Roddick withdrew. I might be able to beat him these days

I agree with Xanthos. I think his primary issue is confidence. He is not stepping on court with a real sense of being better than the player across the net. Which then shows in his attempts to strong-arm them with his serve, his lack of variety, and his indecision. When a player is playing well and hitting stride, it all comes easily. Right now, there is not anything in Andy's game that is coming easily.

He needs to find a coach that he trusts. He needs to keep up the fitness work (he is pretty fit already), and he needs to work with a strategist or a sports psychologist to deal with the mental slump.

Plus, he might want to kiss and make up with Robby. Since the two of them have been in a slump since they broke up.

...in fact...I'm so generous, I'll even help undress you. eek!

Okay here is my 2 cents worth since I am a big fan of Roddick. I think that going back to Gilbert for his Coach should be considered. I think Gilbert is a very good results orientated Coach, who impresses me as someone who has scrooples. I know he used to be Andys' Coach a few years back, but he knows Andy really well. Plus, maybe he should see a good sports psychologist or something. They are out there and many ahtletes are professed to using them. Just random thoughts. I want to see Andy do well in tournaments, and probably get just as frustrated as he does, with his early round exits.

Some thoughts about Roddick...

He needs to sharpen his strategic thinking. Right now his 'serve-will-save-me' approach isn't holding up, because if a player figures out how to return, or if he's not getting good percentages, there isn't much else happening. (Part of why he's never been a fave player of mine, aside from the way he fills out his shorts and plays peekaboo with those Lacoste shirts.) Even on a level as micro as his serve, he needs to vary up the kinds of serves he hits and where he places them. I've noticed commentators remarking on how predictable he can become.

During the winter break Andy did try to improve his two-handed backhand a bit, and it looks a little better. I agree, though, that the slice is near useless. If he overhauled the one-handed shot and developed something more than the weak slice (which doesn't even have potent underspin half the time) it would bring some much needed variety to his game.

Did someone here suggest doubles play as a way for Andy to improve his volleying? Seems smart. His average volleying skills curtail some of the power that comes with his big serve. He'd have to covercome "fatigue" to do this though.

In a different thread I noted that Roddick seems overly content to get in long rallies. Someone disagreed, and they could be thinking of his first Davis Cup match/loss against Pavel, where sickness might have led him to try to end points quickly. In other matches -- against Murray for example --I'm struck by how rarely he angles for winners when a rally gets going. That combined with a tendency to linger behind the baseline like a clay player led to his downfall against Baghdatis.

Andy is the kind of player who really needs a coach. A Gilbert return could only help -- Gilbert certainly had more than a few impotant things to say about what Roddick was doing wrong in Australia. But the sports psychologist suggestion might be worth considering too, because while Gilbert has advice about Roddick's approach, John McEnroe (doing commentary) was really right to recently call out Roddick's tendency to preen and strut on court -- against Pavel, he almost set himself up for downfall with that kind of attitude.

Sounds like everything but the kitchen sink might be necessary! Good luck to him. I'd love to see Roddick develop his game and have more versatility. Right now that's one major thing Amelie has that he lacks.

For his sake, I hope Andy reads some of the above postings for some good insight. Above all I agree that a coach like Gilbert is far more advantageous to Andy than having someone like his brother who he's "comfortable" with...not a good choice.

But, Andy's problem is mental maturity. I never see a Roddick match without him looking like a testosterone driven adolescent who can't control his emotions towards refs especially and all else that disturbs him. He struts like a stupid peacock which I'm both attracted to and annoyed by... Honestly I really like Andy but he comes off as a loud raucous American on the court, which there's nothing wrong with and I'm proud to have had my share of loud raucous American moments in my life, but not on the court. Get your brain into the game Andy...

What's your greatest strength?
Power, in the serve and in the forehand.

What's your greatest weakness?
Backhand, net play, second serves, focus on the big points.


Okay, darling Andy, be incredibly consistent in your first serve percentage. Improve your second serve. Hit forehand winners at the first opportunity. Keep the points short. Attack and don't stop attacking.

See: Graf for the ability to use the backhand as an incredibly effective defense tool geared towards setting up her killer forehand. She did this for an entire massive career.
See: Federer for his ability to play big points (Like tiebreakers, Andy, a chronic problem for you) the way they're supposed to be played: THEY'RE THE MOST IMPORTANT POINTS OF THE MATCH, DUDE!!!!

Again, I really do like Andy alot. I think Gilbert completed him...Gilbert has the mental game Andy doesn't naturally have....Of course I don't mean 'completed him' in that cheesy Jerry Maguire way...

Although Sabatini did come to the net much more later in her career, the only player I can think of who became a true serve and volleyer partway through his/her career was Nathalie Tauziat. But I would guess (I really can't recall what she was like as a baseliner) that she probably was an excellent volleyer to start with, making it essentially a tactical change. Sabatini, I think, volleyed fairly well early in her career, she just didn't go to the net. Roddick is not a good volleyer, and I don't think he's likely to become one at this stage of his career. Lleyton Hewitt, David Nalbandian, even Rafael Nadal are probably better at the net.

I think it is mostly a confidence issue. Because he lacks confidence, he doesn't go for his service returns, doesn't take the ball early,
and uses more topspin to keep the ball in play, blunting his power. The suggestion to improve his footwork so he can run around to the forehand more often, might be one helpful possibility. While it might help to vary his serve more, he really doesn't get broken very often, even in matches he loses. What he needs to do is find a way to get on the attack during his opponent's service games.

I think Gilbert did have him playing smarter tennis. However, Wertheim had a discussion of Gilbert and Roddick and said, essentially, there is no chance of them getting back together. Apparently, they don't even make eye contact if they enter an elevator together. But there must be other good tactical coaches out there who could help him get the most out of his game.

I wonder if he got so psyched out by the problem of how to beat Roger that he lost track of what he did that used to get him past almost everybody except Fed & Hewitt.

I saw the same comment by Wertheim. So, yeah, Roddick may want to seek out someone similar ... a former player with a good understanding of the game, someone who knows how to win with their head when the tennis isn't there. Wonder if Jim Courier would consider it? He had a similar tactical game to Andy, at least from the ground with the forehand, but his serve wasn't as big - so Courier also had to use his head. He was a grinder. Maybe some of that would rub off on Andy, so to speak.

As for Gaby, yes, she could always volley - esp. drop volley. She just didn't do it in singles until Kirmyer changed her strategy. But Gaby didn't serve & volley regularly. She'd mix it in a surprise, but she actually went to net more mid-rally. TENNIS magazine said she nearly won Wimbledon in '91 playing "return & volley" tennis.

The lesson in that for Andy could be that, if you hit a good enough approach, then your volley doesn't have to be great. He'd have to do it on the forehand side, because his backhand slice is nobody's approach shot.

(Although that's more of a Graf thing. Graf didn't have to make amazing volleys, just solid ones, because her approaches were great. Gaby actually would hit bluff approaches sometimes and just make amazing saves with her reflexes at net!)

[ March 02, 2006, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: Gaga4Gaby ]

Since I'm the one who brought up Gaby, let me make sure I was clear....I didn't say she became a serve and volleyer. With her serve, she couldn't. What she did was change her approach dramatically from passive, waiting, high heavy topspin to mixing things up, flattening out her forehand sometimes, attacking, even coming to net much more often. Once she committed to that, she was a much more complete player, and played the best of her career.

I don't think Andy could become a serve and volleyer, although he could mix it up and come in occasionally behind his serve, especially if he adds a little kick to it. As others have mentioned, his forehand is oftentimes very heavy topspin....he probably could take a little more risk, flatten it out, hit it deeper, and take the play to his opponent rather than passively just waiting for an opening. Not easy, but recently he seems to have fallen into a more passive mode than is good for him, so he needs to change it up.

Roddick is not really a counterpuncher, like Hewitt or Nadal. He needs to be aggressive from the first punch, not the counter.

I have said it before and I will say it again: Take away Roddick's serve and he is really an average or slightly above average player. He has a good forehand, but who doesn't? His backhand and movement are average.

I don't really like Roddick, but I agree with the idea of him maybe playing more aggressive or offensive. I also agree with the idea of him getting back with Brad Gilbert.

Dedric

Courier is a good suggestion. I've thought of that comparison before...particularly in connection with Andy's clay court woes.

Oh Andy, Andy, Andy....





My beautiful, handsome, young Andy...





You used to be so happy on the court. You were glad to be there. You hit every shot like you meant it, not just the serve. You chased down every shot with fervor. You used raw instinct and athletecism. And sometimes you went after a ball with such zeal, you'd land in the crowd. And then, you'd lovingly and appreciatively high-five the spectators while you were there.

Now, you seem almost timid, almost unhappy on the court. Your backhand seems like an apology instead of a deliberate stroke. You seem to over-analyze instead of using that innate reaction. Even your running seems defensive instead of hungry. And those spectators who you used to high-five? Now when they shout encouragement, you bark back snarkily...



We still love you. Please, get a real coach and get back that love of the game you once had.

[ March 21, 2006, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: Tennis Guy ]

Why not give John McEnroe a try. If not as a full time coach then at least as an advisor. Sya what you will about McEnroe, but he never lacked heart.

I think it would be great to see Courier with Roddick. The two of them would be awesome together. Courier would certainly make Andy sweat, could really light a fire under his butt, get deep into him, and as far as strokes....

Oh, wait. You guys were talking about TENNIS, weren't you?

Never mind...

LMAO...but I always thought of Courier as more of a bottom. :confused:

Well I've been saying for quite some time that Andy is very one dimensional and he lives and dies by his serve. Players have figured out how to block it back or pick up on it and once you get him in a rally you've got a good chance cuz his groundstrokes and shot selection is average at best. He doesn't come to net enough, slices aren't good enough, doesn't drop shot enough. Why he parted with Gilbert I'll never know. I'd like to know the REAL reason behind that split cuz I just don't get that.