Pieces of the AP article I found on SI.com:
NEW YORK (AP) -- Jose Canseco says in his upcoming book that he injected Mark McGwire with steroids and introduced several other sluggers to the drugs, the Daily News reported Sunday.
The long-awaited Juiced: Wild Times, Rampant 'Roids, Smash Hits, and How Baseball Got Big, is scheduled for release by Regan Books on Feb. 21. Regan publicist Paul Olsewski told The Associated Press in an e-mail that the release date could be moved up.
Canseco said he, McGwire and Jason Giambi shot steroids together in the bathroom stall at the Oakland Coliseum, the Daily News reported. McGwire has always denied using steroids.
My question is did anything else go on inside that bathroom stall? LOL.
Also Canseco says in his book he introduced superstars like Rafael Palmeiro, Ivan Rodriguez and Juan Gonzalez to steroids. Canseco became known throughout the league as "The Chemist" because of his knowledge of mixing and matching of various performance-enhancing drugs.
[Thread title modified for clarity - Outsports moderator]
[ September 19, 2005, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: m1 ]
God, I hate Jose Canseco. Even if the story is true, which it very well could be, why do this? I can just imagine him trying to blackmail these guys into giving him money.
Jose Canseco is a leech.
Jose Canseco is a leech.
Jose Canseco....next on 'The Surreal Life'. Guy has never had any class. I'm not defending any of the 'roids boys' but this guy is in a subspecies with that Baywatch dude who wrote about having an affair with JFK Jr.'s wife.
Most interesting of all, Canseco implicates Pres. Bush in the conspiracy of silence surrounding steroid use. According to the AP story:
"Canseco also said President Bush, the Rangers' general managing partner at the time, must have known about the steroid use.
White House spokesman Trent Duffy did not specifically address Canseco's assertion, but said Sunday that Bush's position on steroids "has been known for some time," noting that he condemned the drugs in his 2004 State of the Union address."
"Canseco also said President Bush, the Rangers' general managing partner at the time, must have known about the steroid use.
White House spokesman Trent Duffy did not specifically address Canseco's assertion, but said Sunday that Bush's position on steroids "has been known for some time," noting that he condemned the drugs in his 2004 State of the Union address."
Today's SF Chronicle carries the story together with responses from Tony LaRussa and former teammates. All are negative about Canseco in general, how there was the team and then him. Several players explicitly denied the allegations about Mark McGwire. Dave Stewart modified by saying he could not vouch for everyone on the team but those in what he called his circle (Rickey Henderson, Dave Henderson, Carney Lansford, Terry Steinbach, Dennis Eckersley) were not steroid users.
Frankly I think Canseco has used too many steroids and his brain has turned to Swiss cheese.
Frankly I think Canseco has used too many steroids and his brain has turned to Swiss cheese.
Canseco's past make his credibility suspect at best. But it doesn't mean his accusations aren't true. If somebody with a spotless record (say someone like St. Cal Ripken) had made written this book, we'd probably be taking these charges much more seriously. And imagine if it was Riken who'd dated Madonna!
I'm inclined to believe a lot of the accusations Canseco makes. I've heard all those protestations and "I never knowingly took illegal substances" from Olympic athletes to be very suspicious. When people are bulked up and doing unexpected things (ie. Brady Anderson, who, in 16 seasons never hit more than 24 HRs except for '96...when he hit 50), you can't help but think.
What I wonder, though, is whether Jose has any proof. I mean, he could be open to libel suits if he's accusing all these people without some kind of evidence--a la Victor Conte. You would think that the book publisher would have done some fact checking, too.
[ February 07, 2005, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: canmark ]
What I wonder, though, is whether Jose has any proof. I mean, he could be open to libel suits if he's accusing all these people without some kind of evidence--a la Victor Conte. You would think that the book publisher would have done some fact checking, too.
[ February 07, 2005, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: canmark ]
This was reported in this morning's SF Chronicle:
>>On another matter, the Daily News reported, Canseco writes about having sex with hundreds of women -- not, however, Madonna, though he did, he says in the book, make out with her in her Manhattan apartment. <<
Can't these heterosexual males control their sex drives? I read stuff like this and I think all str8 men must be that way, as if they can't get married!
On the other hand, I always though 'roids ruined a guy's sex life, what with the shrinking of testicles, and all.
Maybe this guy was different and he really could have intercourse on his juice.
BTW, some of the men quoted in the Chronicle story call him Josie, and I wonder if they're pronouncing that as "joe-zee," as in "Josie and the Pussycats," or as "ho-zee."
Either way, Josie does not seem like a very macho nickname to me.
[ February 07, 2005, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: MPetrelis ]
>>On another matter, the Daily News reported, Canseco writes about having sex with hundreds of women -- not, however, Madonna, though he did, he says in the book, make out with her in her Manhattan apartment. <<
Can't these heterosexual males control their sex drives? I read stuff like this and I think all str8 men must be that way, as if they can't get married!
On the other hand, I always though 'roids ruined a guy's sex life, what with the shrinking of testicles, and all.
Maybe this guy was different and he really could have intercourse on his juice.
BTW, some of the men quoted in the Chronicle story call him Josie, and I wonder if they're pronouncing that as "joe-zee," as in "Josie and the Pussycats," or as "ho-zee."
Either way, Josie does not seem like a very macho nickname to me.
[ February 07, 2005, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: MPetrelis ]
>Canseco said he, McGwire and Jason Giambi shot steroids together in the bathroom stall at the Oakland Coliseum, the Daily News reported. McGwire has always denied using steroids. <
Um, why shoot up there and not in the privacy of a hotel room or someone's private home? Sounds risky to me, juicing in the bathroom stall at the stadium, when a bat boy or coach or reporter or someone from the head office could walk in and notice two or more guys using the same stall.
Um, why shoot up there and not in the privacy of a hotel room or someone's private home? Sounds risky to me, juicing in the bathroom stall at the stadium, when a bat boy or coach or reporter or someone from the head office could walk in and notice two or more guys using the same stall.
Holy cow!! The fraternity of baseball journalists have come down on Jose Canseco like a ton of bricks. So far I've heard them question Canseco's general integrity, his credibility on this particular issue, his motives, his willingness "to harm the institution of baseball," and his memory, all the while saying "we don't really know if what he's saying is true." The specifity of some of the charges, if untrue, would open leave Canseco & his publisher open to libel charges & could cost them millions. Because of that, I can't believe any publisher would allow the charges to go to press unless there were manifest evidence to back them up.
~Adam
~Adam
How many of these same writers have spent years sucking up to Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, etc.? Canseco seems like a weasel, but considering baseball's track record regarding steroids, he's got as much credibility as anyone else.
ESPN.com's Buster Olney has some defence of Jose.
QUOTE
Ken Caminiti peeled away the first layer of baseball's pretense, a sad and pathetic and doomed addict speaking out loud about his own use of steroids to Sports Illustrated. The next real bombshell came from Jason Giambi, whose proud fortress of deception -- how many times did he tell us how hard he worked? -- collapsed only when he testified, with extraordinary detail, under the threat of prosecution.
And now Jose Canseco will become the loudest of the steroid confessors in a forthcoming book, and he possesses the least credibility of any player who has talked about the problem.
* * *
However, those changes have taken place only in recent years, and the underground discussion of steroids dates back well into the 1980s -- about the time Canseco emerged in the majors for Oakland.
Scouts and executives already were chortling and rolling their eyes back then about hitters who bulked up suddenly and absurdly, and suddenly were beset by muscle strains. If you were around the game and didn't hear any of that, well, you purposefully had planted your head in the sand, whether you were an owner, a player, a union leader, a writer. Everybody knew; everybody blew it, to varying degrees.
And now Jose Canseco will become the loudest of the steroid confessors in a forthcoming book, and he possesses the least credibility of any player who has talked about the problem.
* * *
However, those changes have taken place only in recent years, and the underground discussion of steroids dates back well into the 1980s -- about the time Canseco emerged in the majors for Oakland.
Scouts and executives already were chortling and rolling their eyes back then about hitters who bulked up suddenly and absurdly, and suddenly were beset by muscle strains. If you were around the game and didn't hear any of that, well, you purposefully had planted your head in the sand, whether you were an owner, a player, a union leader, a writer. Everybody knew; everybody blew it, to varying degrees.
After reading some of the posts here, I am ashamed to confess I thought Canseco was HOT when he played for the A's. wink
I don't doubt Canseco has alot of damaging info on steroid usage. However, he hasn't put his name on this book for anything other than publicity and money.
For publicity and money, he should just pose nude. Really, I'd buy a copy. Or would it all have shriveled up by now?
On Mike&Mike in the Morning this AM the Greenberg guy was saying there's a rumor that more names are forthcoming, that the publishers have released just parts of the book and will continue to roll out names to build publicity - and the rumor is a major, major star will be implicated. But I ain't one to gossip, so you didn't hear that from me.
The Toronto Star's Richard Griffin points out how it's interesting that Tony LaRussa is coming down so hard on Jose when he (LaRussa) managed Canseco and defended him back in the day.
QUOTE
(LaRussa) vigorously defended Canseco against accusations by Washington Post baseball writer Thomas Boswell that the A's star would not be in the majors if it weren't for steroids.
\"It's irritating,\" La Russa said back in '88. \"Jose has made some mistakes, but I know what goes on with our weight-training program.\"
La Russa now admits that, contrary to his '88 defence, steroid use by his superstar was common knowledge behind the closed clubhouse doors.
* * *
If La Russa knew, would it not logically follow that A's strength and conditioning coach Dave McKay, who designed the workout programs, trainer Barry Weinberg and, likely, both general manager Sandy Alderson and VP of baseball administration Walt Jocketty were aware? What was done? Nada.
In fact, instead of taking a step back, McKay and Canseco in the winter of '89 had the cojones to co-write a conditioning book called Strength Training in Baseball that is still available.
\"It's irritating,\" La Russa said back in '88. \"Jose has made some mistakes, but I know what goes on with our weight-training program.\"
La Russa now admits that, contrary to his '88 defence, steroid use by his superstar was common knowledge behind the closed clubhouse doors.
* * *
If La Russa knew, would it not logically follow that A's strength and conditioning coach Dave McKay, who designed the workout programs, trainer Barry Weinberg and, likely, both general manager Sandy Alderson and VP of baseball administration Walt Jocketty were aware? What was done? Nada.
In fact, instead of taking a step back, McKay and Canseco in the winter of '89 had the cojones to co-write a conditioning book called Strength Training in Baseball that is still available.
QUOTE
William1865:
On Mike&Mike in the Morning this AM the Greenberg guy was saying there's a rumor that more names are forthcoming, that the publishers have released just parts of the book and will continue to roll out names to build publicity - and the rumor is a major, major star will be implicated. But I ain't one to gossip, so you didn't hear that from me.
A major star whose name hasn't come up? The world has already discussed McGwire, Sosa, Bonds with regard to steroids -- who else is "major" who hasn't already come under suspicion? Who else turned from 98-pound weakling to bodybuilder overnight? Sounds like a false rumor, unless perhaps he's referring to a pitcher.
On Mike&Mike in the Morning this AM the Greenberg guy was saying there's a rumor that more names are forthcoming, that the publishers have released just parts of the book and will continue to roll out names to build publicity - and the rumor is a major, major star will be implicated. But I ain't one to gossip, so you didn't hear that from me.
I thought the same thing, La Lucci 
(sorry, I'm channeling Regis Philbin here). It seems like there are no superstars in baseball that remain untarnished by steroids, corked bats, antisocial bahavior, etc. Unless he has information about a pitcher like Roger Clemens, whose body has certainly changed over the past 20 years (mine has, too, but in the opposite direction).
(sorry, I'm channeling Regis Philbin here). It seems like there are no superstars in baseball that remain untarnished by steroids, corked bats, antisocial bahavior, etc. Unless he has information about a pitcher like Roger Clemens, whose body has certainly changed over the past 20 years (mine has, too, but in the opposite direction).
I'm just jealous that if it is true, Conseco got to see McGwire's beefy thighs and buttocks as he injected him with steroids. Now that's an image for your bathroom walls. LOL. eek!
I remember hearing these injections were done in the butt. So in a small bathroom stall I would have to believe when bending over to get their shots they had to place their hands on the toilet for balance. I hope the seat was down.
What I don't understand is the number of people who dismiss Canseco's allegations that he's "just trying to make money." Trying to make money and telling the truth are not mutually exclusive; he could be doing both. "60 Minutes" will air an interview with him this coming Sunday.
~Adam
~Adam
Thomas Boswell wrote an interesting article in the Washington Post today on this subject.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...1-2005Feb7.html
Two things of note:
One, I dispute the fact that because its Canseco, it can't be true. Yeah, the guy is a hack (and I, too, thought he was hot back in the day) but that doesn't mean steroids weren't used.
Two, the assertion that "back 10 years ago, owners (ie, W) didn't know about these things." We're talking 1995. 7 years after Ben Johnson. Several years after records came out from Soviet-bloc countries about mass doping. You can't tell me that an owner, a man passionate enough about baseball to buy a team, didn't know about this going on in his locker room.
More likely, he knew, as all owners knew, and didn't care, because everybody is doing it, and it brings in fans.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...1-2005Feb7.html
Two things of note:
One, I dispute the fact that because its Canseco, it can't be true. Yeah, the guy is a hack (and I, too, thought he was hot back in the day) but that doesn't mean steroids weren't used.
Two, the assertion that "back 10 years ago, owners (ie, W) didn't know about these things." We're talking 1995. 7 years after Ben Johnson. Several years after records came out from Soviet-bloc countries about mass doping. You can't tell me that an owner, a man passionate enough about baseball to buy a team, didn't know about this going on in his locker room.
More likely, he knew, as all owners knew, and didn't care, because everybody is doing it, and it brings in fans.
Does anyone else think most people already beleive that most athletes use some sort of substances to build their bodies--and their bank accounts--and, as such, will react: "Oh, more baseball players on steroids." No big surprise. Has there really been that much outrage about Giambi, Sheffield, Caminiti, et al from anyone but die-hard purists who speak of the integrity of the game?
~Adam
~Adam
I for one believe most athletes do not cheat, do not use steroids, and do not see use as an acceptable practice. I think it hurts the sport. I never got caught up in the whole home run mess with McGwire because I thought he was just a freak from substance abuse, who should be impressed with that? It's sad too because people don't care, children who tend to love the sport for sport sake are taught a horrible lesson, record books are tainted, as are reputations. In tennis when an athlete is caught using steroids, his points for his wins at the time are remove from his record and I believe all prize money must be returned. Baseball, football, whichever other sport condones 'roid use should take such a position, then maybe players would think twice. As it is there is LITTLE punative action.
Should have titled the book "Inside the Bathroom Stall"!
I don't disbelieve it happened, esp since players like Giambi, Bonds have been denying it for so long only to later back track their stories. But since it is coming from the mouth of Jose Canseco during the release of his tell all book, I am still very skeptical about his claims.
All last yr we've been dealing with the steroids controversy in baseball. Why didn't he come out and air his piece then? Ahhh, the book wasn't finished or better yet, maybe he concocted this idea for a book based on all of the steroid hoopla to earn a quick payday?
It's no secret he's desperate for $$. What a loser!
All last yr we've been dealing with the steroids controversy in baseball. Why didn't he come out and air his piece then? Ahhh, the book wasn't finished or better yet, maybe he concocted this idea for a book based on all of the steroid hoopla to earn a quick payday?
It's no secret he's desperate for $$. What a loser!
Hey alleninsf are you really Chris "Mad Dog" Russo? Everything you just said he said on today's program. Plus he is a big San Francisco Giants fan. LOL.
Anyway his comment that Mark McGuire looked like Paul Bunyan was so right on. McGwire was as ripped as the Incredible Hulk.
Anyway his comment that Mark McGuire looked like Paul Bunyan was so right on. McGwire was as ripped as the Incredible Hulk.
QUOTE
amazin12:
Hey alleninsf are you really Chris \"Mad Dog\" Russo? Everything you just said he said on today's program. Plus he is a big San Francisco Giants fan. LOL.
Anyway his comment that Mark McGuire looked like Paul Bunyan was so right on. McGwire was as ripped as the Incredible Hulk.
The only time I've ever been called "mad dog" was in bed. Hey alleninsf are you really Chris \"Mad Dog\" Russo? Everything you just said he said on today's program. Plus he is a big San Francisco Giants fan. LOL.
Anyway his comment that Mark McGuire looked like Paul Bunyan was so right on. McGwire was as ripped as the Incredible Hulk.
No, not Chris Russo - is he a radio personality in NY?
Also, not a big Giants fan but will make an effort this yr since I live near their stadium.
Also, if McGwire was juiced, he was juiced his entire career b/c he set a MLB record for home runs in his rookie year when he bashed 49 which is unheard of for a rookie.
Since we are already aware of several players taking steroids, the fact that more will be mentioned should be no surprise. It will be up to these players to sue Canseco if he is truly lying about alleged steroid use. Mark McGwire denies being a user so let him be the first to file suit.
BTW one person who won't be able to deny using "performance enhancing drugs" is one Rafael Palmeiro. wink
BTW one person who won't be able to deny using "performance enhancing drugs" is one Rafael Palmeiro. wink
Alleninsf wrote:
Also, if McGwire was juiced, he was juiced his entire career b/c he set a MLB record for home runs in his rookie year when he bashed 49 which is unheard of for a rookie
Or maybe steroids just don't make as large a performance difference as people are assuming. Boswell's suggestion that Cansecon would never have made the majors without steroids seems extremely silly to me. There's got to be at least a hundred marginal major leaguers, for every superstar, if even 5-10% of marginal major leaguers use steroids...well, you do the math. Baseball's power surge hasn't been THAT impressive.
With respect to McGuire, would it make any sense to use androstenodione if you were already using steroids? It seems like andro would be something somebody looking for a legal (or a cheaper, but money certainly wouldn't be a factor here) edge would use.
I thought Dave Stewart's comments were interesting. Rather than take Canseco's comments head on, he essentially said, "I wasn't on them and neither were my closest friends on the team--Dave Henderson, Dennis Eckersley and Carney Lansford". As far as Mark McGuire or other players, he couldn't say (or wouldn't, perhaps). Some players have commented--for what it's worth--that Canseco and McGuire weren't especially close, which seems to make the mutual injection story a little unlikely.
As far as George W.--I doubt he and other owners *KNEW* the players were on steroids. I imagine they were wilfully ignorant. Naturally, like all but the most naive fans, they would have been suspicious. But why would they try to find out for sure? They're benefiting (presumably) from the enhanced performance. All having knowledge could do is land them in legal trouble.
Also, if McGwire was juiced, he was juiced his entire career b/c he set a MLB record for home runs in his rookie year when he bashed 49 which is unheard of for a rookie
Or maybe steroids just don't make as large a performance difference as people are assuming. Boswell's suggestion that Cansecon would never have made the majors without steroids seems extremely silly to me. There's got to be at least a hundred marginal major leaguers, for every superstar, if even 5-10% of marginal major leaguers use steroids...well, you do the math. Baseball's power surge hasn't been THAT impressive.
With respect to McGuire, would it make any sense to use androstenodione if you were already using steroids? It seems like andro would be something somebody looking for a legal (or a cheaper, but money certainly wouldn't be a factor here) edge would use.
I thought Dave Stewart's comments were interesting. Rather than take Canseco's comments head on, he essentially said, "I wasn't on them and neither were my closest friends on the team--Dave Henderson, Dennis Eckersley and Carney Lansford". As far as Mark McGuire or other players, he couldn't say (or wouldn't, perhaps). Some players have commented--for what it's worth--that Canseco and McGuire weren't especially close, which seems to make the mutual injection story a little unlikely.
As far as George W.--I doubt he and other owners *KNEW* the players were on steroids. I imagine they were wilfully ignorant. Naturally, like all but the most naive fans, they would have been suspicious. But why would they try to find out for sure? They're benefiting (presumably) from the enhanced performance. All having knowledge could do is land them in legal trouble.
QUOTE
alleninsf:
Also, if McGwire was juiced, he was juiced his entire career b/c he set a MLB record for home runs in his rookie year when he bashed 49 which is unheard of for a rookie.
But then he fell to 32, 33, 39 and then just 22 homers. In 1992 he hit 42, but then had two injury-riddled and strike-shortened years where he only had 9 each year. In 1995 in just 104 games played he hit 39. Then he suddenly exploded to 58 (with the A's and Cards the year he was traded), 70 and 65.Also, if McGwire was juiced, he was juiced his entire career b/c he set a MLB record for home runs in his rookie year when he bashed 49 which is unheard of for a rookie.
So it's absolutely possible he used something to enhance his performance.
They're discussing this on Outside the Lines on ESPN right now. They said that home runs in baseball went up from 1989 to 2000 by SIXTY percent!
Joe
The only thing that really upsets me, is that I don't want to know if its true. I don't. Leave me blind. I just want to see them play. If everyone is using, isn't the playing field fair? And if everyone is off (which I would prefer--believe me, I love one run games) the playing field is again fair. I'd rather them just take care of it in the backrooms. That is why I'm pissed at Canseco. For ripping away the last shreds of decency from the American Pasttime.
Hell, I'm not blind. I knew that Bonds, Giambi, Anderson, Bret Boone, etc. were all possibly using. Just look at them! All gaining vast amounts of muscle in one offseason. Impossible. And all of us know that both the Players Union and MLB knew and know what is going on. Yet they don't care, so long as money is to be made. The more Homeruns, the more money a player is paid and the more butts in the seats at a game. They are the ones responsible for creating that type of atmosphere.
Sigh...I can't wait for spring training to start.
Hell, I'm not blind. I knew that Bonds, Giambi, Anderson, Bret Boone, etc. were all possibly using. Just look at them! All gaining vast amounts of muscle in one offseason. Impossible. And all of us know that both the Players Union and MLB knew and know what is going on. Yet they don't care, so long as money is to be made. The more Homeruns, the more money a player is paid and the more butts in the seats at a game. They are the ones responsible for creating that type of atmosphere.
Sigh...I can't wait for spring training to start.
Amazon.com preordeers for the book went from a ranking below 100,000 all the way up to #27 in the two days following the exerpts being printed in the NY Daily News.
It's interesting that so many sports media are shocked and outraged at Canseco's allegations, esp. since they are more privy to rumours and get to see inside locker rooms. Also, these people should be familiar with all those Olympic athletes who claimed innocence, only to be later found guilty.
Some media though have fuelled speculation, and I heard one guy on the radio talking about an unnamed player (who seemed to be Bret Boone) who had a tiny waist but massive upper body and "boils all over his back," and who's power numbers blossomed suspiciously.
I also read an article (can't remember where) that said how McGwire seems to be a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame and Canseco and also-ran, yet if you look at their career stats they are remarkably similar.
McGwire: .263 BA, .394 OBP, .588 SLG, 1626 hits, 252 2B, 583 HR, 1414 RBI, 12 SB
Canseco: .266 BA, .353 OBP, .515 SLG, 1877 hits, 340 2B, 462 HR, 1407 RBI, 200 SB
Some media though have fuelled speculation, and I heard one guy on the radio talking about an unnamed player (who seemed to be Bret Boone) who had a tiny waist but massive upper body and "boils all over his back," and who's power numbers blossomed suspiciously.
I also read an article (can't remember where) that said how McGwire seems to be a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame and Canseco and also-ran, yet if you look at their career stats they are remarkably similar.
McGwire: .263 BA, .394 OBP, .588 SLG, 1626 hits, 252 2B, 583 HR, 1414 RBI, 12 SB
Canseco: .266 BA, .353 OBP, .515 SLG, 1877 hits, 340 2B, 462 HR, 1407 RBI, 200 SB
It's almost as if baseball has something similar to the "blue Wall of Silence" like the police. Any cop who would dare to come forward with some information that would make a fellow officer or officers look bad are blacklisted and deemed not credible.
As for why Canseco waited to put this book out, I'm sure Jose doesn't own a printing press. He has to get a publisher to rpint and distribute the book. I'm sure before all this BALCO stuff, publishers were leery of putting out such a book for fear of libel suits. Or they wouldn't have been able to print any names but just allude to certain players a la Brendan Lemon. Nodody would buy that book.
As for why Canseco waited to put this book out, I'm sure Jose doesn't own a printing press. He has to get a publisher to rpint and distribute the book. I'm sure before all this BALCO stuff, publishers were leery of putting out such a book for fear of libel suits. Or they wouldn't have been able to print any names but just allude to certain players a la Brendan Lemon. Nodody would buy that book.
QUOTE
Some media though have fuelled speculation, and I heard one guy on the radio talking about an unnamed player (who seemed to be Bret Boone) who had a tiny waist but massive upper body and \"boils all over his back,\" and who's power numbers blossomed suspiciously.
Yep, Boone got massive over the winter a few years ago (M's fans here should know the year). Another one was Trot Nixon of Red Sox who "gained 30 pounds in muscle over the winter" according to a report I read (and which caused me to instantly say "Juicer!") and suddenly was out for periods of time with muscle strains. You simply can't put on that much muscle in that short of a time without chemical help. Since we're speculating: Mike Piazza. I know a guy who knew the Dodgers beat writer (I know, a friend of a friend who knows the mailman's sisters cousin kind of thing but still...) and he said that the writer was convinced Piazza was juicing, mainly because of backne. Ewwwww.
I *do* care if players juice. It lends them an unfair advantage. It's not going to turn a .220 hitter in to a .300 hitter--hitting is still mainly about hand/eye coordination--but what it does is add 10-20 feet to balls they hit, so that balls that would have ended up on the warning track go over the fence.
Let's keep in mind your local GNC sells many non-steroid products that can help you gain weight and gain muscle (like creatine)
So it's hard to implicate everyone. There's just so much stuff out there.
[ February 09, 2005, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: amazin12 ]
So it's hard to implicate everyone. There's just so much stuff out there.
[ February 09, 2005, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: amazin12 ]
Jose Canseco will be a guest on Howard Stern's radio show next week, though the exact day wasn't announced. If I hear I'll let you know for anyone interested.
If Canseco wants to be a real man, and at the same time sell even more books, he should go get interviewed by a real program like "Dateline" or even the 'Mike and the Mad Dog" show. What will he accomplish by getting interviewed by a fool like Howard Stern? Canseco will lose even more credibility as he fields questions with one of Stern's semi-naked babes sitting across his lap and Robin Quivers cackling in the background.
QUOTE
amazin12:
If Canseco wants to be a real man, and at the same time sell even more books, he should go get interviewed by a real program like \"Dateline\" or even the 'Mike and the Mad Dog\" show. What will he accomplish by getting interviewed by a fool like Howard Stern? Canseco will lose even more credibility as he fields questions with one of Stern's semi-naked babes sitting across his lap and Robin Quivers cackling in the background.
He'll be interviewed by Mike Wallace on "60 Minutes" this Sunday.If Canseco wants to be a real man, and at the same time sell even more books, he should go get interviewed by a real program like \"Dateline\" or even the 'Mike and the Mad Dog\" show. What will he accomplish by getting interviewed by a fool like Howard Stern? Canseco will lose even more credibility as he fields questions with one of Stern's semi-naked babes sitting across his lap and Robin Quivers cackling in the background.
~Adam
And I've heard Howard do some pretty good interviews. Larry King, The View, Dateline, 20/20 have all done their fair share of sortball interviews.
Well, Giambi's apologized.
But why, though, does he call Canseco "delusional?" Canseco said he (Canseco), McGwire and Giambi did steroids. Giambi admitted (to the grand jury) that he did steroids. He apologizes for doing something unnamed (obviously steroids). So how is Canseco delusional? Sounds like he's telling the truth.
But in between apologies and the commitment of hard work, the 40-minute session frustrated the hungry New York media, which got very little of what it was hoping for.
Giambi, when asked what he was apologizing for: \"I can't get into specifics.\"
When asked what it was that he was taking \"full responsibility\" for: \"I can't get into specifics.\"
When asked -- point blank -- if he used steroids: \"That's something I can't talk about.\"
When asked why he couldn't talk about it: \"I can't get into those specifics. I'm taking full responsibilities for my actions.\"
When asked what he told the grand jury: \"I can't.\"
When asked why he used steroids: \"I can't get into specifics. I apologize.\"
Ya got that?
[ February 10, 2005, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: canmark ]
But why, though, does he call Canseco "delusional?" Canseco said he (Canseco), McGwire and Giambi did steroids. Giambi admitted (to the grand jury) that he did steroids. He apologizes for doing something unnamed (obviously steroids). So how is Canseco delusional? Sounds like he's telling the truth.
QUOTE
One of the few topics Giambi addressed specifically was Jose Canseco's upcoming book, which is being released next week. The New York Daily News reported Sunday that Canseco says in the book that he, Giambi and Mark McGwire shot steroids together.
\"I find that delusional, to be honest with you. I don't even know where he would come up with anything like that,\" Giambi said. \"I think it's kind of sad that Josie is that desperate, I think, to make a dime.\"
What Giambi said and didn't say. \"I find that delusional, to be honest with you. I don't even know where he would come up with anything like that,\" Giambi said. \"I think it's kind of sad that Josie is that desperate, I think, to make a dime.\"
QUOTE
But in between apologies and the commitment of hard work, the 40-minute session frustrated the hungry New York media, which got very little of what it was hoping for.
Giambi, when asked what he was apologizing for: \"I can't get into specifics.\"
When asked what it was that he was taking \"full responsibility\" for: \"I can't get into specifics.\"
When asked -- point blank -- if he used steroids: \"That's something I can't talk about.\"
When asked why he couldn't talk about it: \"I can't get into those specifics. I'm taking full responsibilities for my actions.\"
When asked what he told the grand jury: \"I can't.\"
When asked why he used steroids: \"I can't get into specifics. I apologize.\"
[ February 10, 2005, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: canmark ]
Umm...the fact that Giambi did steroids doesn't mean that Canseco, McGwire and Giambi did steroids together.
Canseco on 60 Minutes. Is he wavering on some of his claims?
[ February 10, 2005, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: canmark ]
QUOTE
Jose Canseco says injecting his teammates with steroids was \"something so common\" that he didn't give it much thought at the time.
\"I injected them,\" Canseco tells Mike Wallace, according to a partial transcript of his upcoming interview with 60 Minutes for a segment to be broadcast Sunday on CBS.
* * *
Canseco wrote that he and McGwire injected steroids together \"often,\" but told Wallace that he remembered injecting McGwire only a couple of times.
\"Well, I think it was more inject ourselves,\" he said. \"I think I injected him -- I mean, this is a long time ago -- once or twice for sure. I didn't keep track.\"
The interview was to be broadcast one day before the release of Canseco's book, Juiced: Wild Times, Rampant 'Roids, Smash Hits & How Baseball Got Big.
\"I injected them,\" Canseco tells Mike Wallace, according to a partial transcript of his upcoming interview with 60 Minutes for a segment to be broadcast Sunday on CBS.
* * *
Canseco wrote that he and McGwire injected steroids together \"often,\" but told Wallace that he remembered injecting McGwire only a couple of times.
\"Well, I think it was more inject ourselves,\" he said. \"I think I injected him -- I mean, this is a long time ago -- once or twice for sure. I didn't keep track.\"
The interview was to be broadcast one day before the release of Canseco's book, Juiced: Wild Times, Rampant 'Roids, Smash Hits & How Baseball Got Big.
[ February 10, 2005, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: canmark ]
You know, giving someone injections takes some skill. It's not just like stabbing a needle into a pincushion. Do it wrong and not only can it hurt like hell, you can injure or even kill the recipient (if an air bubble enters a main blood vessel). There is reason why junkies' arms look so messed up. It seems insane, absolutely insane, that all these guys would line up and let Canseco give them injections.
If, as Canseco states, players injecting themselves/others was "so common," why have none come forward to corroborate his claims? After all, if he was injecting McGwire--or anyone else--and the practice were all that common & accepted, other players would have witnessed it.
~Adam
~Adam
Actually you inject steroids into fat and it isn't hard to do at all. You can do it yourself although it is easier to have someone else do it. Just twist around, grab some fat on the ass and jab. It also requires small needles and it would be hard to reach a major blood vessel with such small needles in that area. I've seen it done several times before.
[ February 11, 2005, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: gobar ]
[ February 11, 2005, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: gobar ]
Right gobar. What I don't understand is why anyone needed Canseco's help to inject. I gave myself procrit shots for almost a year to combat anemia from cancer treatment and never needed anybody's help.
I suspect just the "ick" factor of pushing that needle into your skin. Easier to just have someone else do it.
Maybe these guys are just a big bunch of sissies, ha ha.
[ February 11, 2005, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: gobar ]
Maybe these guys are just a big bunch of sissies, ha ha.
[ February 11, 2005, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: gobar ]
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