A friend told me that he heard on the radio that along with Giambi, McGwire, et al, that Canseco also implicates former A's SS, Miguel Tejada, the 2002 AL MVP, now w/ the Baltimore Orioles.

Has anyone else heard about this today?

I heard this on Sportscenter last night from Pedro Gomez, who has apparently been given an advanced copy of the book. He apparently also names three Devil Ray teammates. If I were prosecting any streoid related case, I wouldn't use this bit as evidence of streoids giving players a clear advantage! wink

According to Gomez, Jose says this about Giambi:

One of those Devil Rays was Wilson Alvarez, who wanted something to help him lose weight. wink I saw in the paper today that Roger Clemens was also mentioned. Jose said he's suspicious because Clemens mentioned "B-12" shots, which is some sort of slang for steroid shots, and because Clemens showed sudden improvement later in his career. I didn't think Clemens exactly fell apart and then suddenly turned it around.

Joe

[ February 12, 2005, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Susan Lucci in Philly ]

This is the first that I have heard B-12 shots being slang for steroids. Many people particularly the elderly, have been receiving Vitamin B-12 shots for a long time by their physicians. It is supposed to give you a boost of energy, especially if you are anemic. If Roger took real B-12 shots I would not think that would be considered an illegal "performance enhancing" drug.

[ February 12, 2005, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: phillyrunner ]

There's an article on MLB.com about Canseco. It seems that MLB's stance is that they don't believe Canseco's claims and won't do anything to investigate their possible validity. Head in the sand, anyone?

This, from the book jacket, cracks me up:

"Canseco mixed, matched, and experimented to such a degree that he became known throughout the league as 'the Chemist.' He passed his knowledge on to trainers and fellow players, and before long, performance-enhancing drugs were running rampant through Major League Baseball....Baseball as we know it was the result."

The Chemist??

~Adam

I'm not even sure Canseco could spell the word chemist.

Listen folks, MLB is going to do whatever it takes to discredit Canseco and make McGwire the hero. He is MLB's boy. The fact is that McGwire is no different than Bonds. They're both losers who have cheated the game. Cheated people that have predeceded them in the game. Steve Garvey would be in the HOF right now, but his stats look minsicule compared to today's steroid freaks. He was clean, but he won't get in because his stats can't compare to the people who cheated. Sad.

He seemed to have quite a few facial twitches during his talk with "60 Minutes."

I didn't get the sense he was telling the full truth and just when I was ready to totally dismiss Jose, the show brought on a baseball writer who'se covered the game for the past decade. Or, as he called it, the steroid era.

Anyway, this reproter slammed Jose in general, and then said he was probably telling the truth about the use and abuse of steroids.

One thing I like about Jose tonight was the gloss on his lips and the light dusting on his handsome face.

Canseco has cancelled his appearnce on Howard Stern as well as a sit down with Katie Couric.

I also noted the guy they interviewed on "60 Minutes" who was talking about Conseco, said he is widely viewed as a "snitch" too. He is a very handsome man, no doubt about it.

I hate that someone is called a snitch in cases like this. As if baseball players feel they are entitled to some sort of Blue Wall of Silence that police officers mistakenly feel they are entitled to. If he is telling the truth (and I believe the basics of his accusations though perhaps not so much of the details), he should be lauded not scorned.

More names from Canseco's book: Bret Boone says No way, Jose.

MPetrelis: He seemed to have quite a few facial twitches during his talk with "60 Minutes."

Jose has had those for a long time. It reminds me of the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer thinks Jerry's financial manager is sniffing because he's on cocaine (turns out it's actually an allergy)... but in Jose's case it's probably coke.

According to Richard Roeper, Canseco has these things to say in his book:

B-12 shots can be a slang for steroids. here in texas you can buy syringes at the drug store, although the pharmacist can use his/her discretion to deny you. in the days before internet purchases became commonplace, it was standard practice to use the "B-12" excuse when buying syringes. (yeah, despite my 5'10" 150 pound frame i did do a cycle of steroids before)

Yankees reveal that the word "steroids" was specifically removed from Jason Giambi's 2001 contract, a contract which pays him $15.5 million in '05, $19 in '06, $21.5 in '07, $21 in '08, and $22 in '09 (with a $5 million buyout).

So in other words, Brian Cashman flat-out lied on the radio. What a joke. The world of sports just gets more and more corrupt.

Joe

At this rate, it won't be long before politicians are trusted more than athletes by yhe American public.

And did you hear about the alleged mistress of Barry Bonds saying he admitted to her that he took 'roids? Geraldo Rivera interviewed her and when has Geraldo ever misled us?

LOL. She is Kimberly Bell and her book is called "Bonds' Girl". Nice bubble gum title for a book. But I wonder why she would wait until now to write her "tell all" story.

I saw FOX News' 2nd interview on Sunday and she sounded a little bit convincing but the story would've been more convincing to me if Geraldo had taped it inside Al Capone's vault.

Some of the talking heads on ESPN were speculating that the reason she waited is because he palimony suit against Bonds was dismissed. I hadn't heard anything prior to this that there was a mistress or palimony suit so who knows what the truth is.

I hate to admit it but I'm probably gonna buy the book. I'm curious as to who else he names. I read somewhere that he makes a reference to Ben Grieve. He said something to the effect of how Grieve should have taken steroids because he needed it. I'm glad Grieve didn't. Not only is it unhealthy but I can't imagine Grieve looking muscular; it just wouldn't look right on him. The same could be said of Derek Jeter and Alex Gonzales. I personally feel that Canseco is saying things that most people in baseball don't want to hear. Ah well. I'll probably buy it this week.

Whatever you think of his allegations in the book, there are some things about which he's definitely delusional. He claims that he was run out of baseball and that he can still do everything at 40 he could when he was 25, because steroids have kept him young. Right. At 25, Canseco hit .274 with 37HR's and a SLG percentage of nearly .550, 3rd in the league. In his last two years in the league (and this is 4 years ago), he was slugging nearly a hundred points lower, in an era when overall standards of offense have risen drastically from where they were in 1988-1992.

He also claims he was the best player in baseball...well, he was one of the very best hitters, but he had absolutely zero defensive value, so he certainly wouldn't have been my pick for best in baseball at any point.

And Canmark, those numbers you put up for McGriff and Canseco look pretty different to me. Canseco competes in the counting stats because he drew far fewer walks, so he had more at bats. But the 70 point difference in lifetime slugging average is really big. McGwire's career slugging percentage is the 10th highest of all time, ahead of Joe DiMaggio and Rogers Hornsby. Canseco's is 67th, behind Ryan Klesko and Edgar Martinez. McGwire on base percentage was also much higher, and while 1st basemen don't get in for their gloves, McGwire was pretty good defensively. Their credentials really aren't close.

This wasn't my argument, it was suggested by a sportswriter. But, Canseco was a league MVP; McGwire was not. Canseco was the first 40-40 man; McGwire was a home run champ. Canseco had more hits; McGwire had more home runs. Canseco had more stolen bases; McGwire had a higher on base percentage. In RBIs they are almost the same. Sure, McGwire's numbers may be better, but McGwire is seen as a sure Hall of Famer, whereas Canseco is seen as a "they'll never put him in the Hall of Fame."

-------------

The second 60 Minutes installment was interesting. Tony LaRussa admits that it was known by everyone that Jose was on something (steroids), yet Sandy Alderson (then GM of the A's, now MLB's VP of Operations) pretends he didn't know this. Alderson admits he had suspicions, yet when Mike Wallace asks "Did you ever confront Canseco" he says "No." Isn't that called "Turning a blind eye?" Everybody in baseball knew: players, coaches, trainers, management. But they turned a blind eye.

Canseco willingly admits he used steroids throughout his entire career, yet he was never tested or penalized by baseball... because baseball didn't care. They swept it under the carpet, turned a blind eye.

[ February 16, 2005, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: canmark ]

Is Sheffield now claiming that he didn't take steroids, even though he (supposedly) admitted that he unwittingly used a steroid cream? And interesting how he's distancing himself from Giambi. Will this fallout spread into the Yankee clubhouse?

Did anyone hear Dan Patrick's radio program today? Jose Canseco cancelled his scheduled appearance (as he did with "Today," CNN, and MSNBC) to which Patrick said "Jose's afraid I'd ask him tougher questions than Mike Wallace. I'd want to know why he has a vendetta against an American hero like Mark McGwire."

Accepting that the media is siding with McGwire in all this, willing to at least give him the benefit of the doubt & accept his denials of steroid use, referring to him as "an American hero" goes a bit overboard. I respect McGwire & loved watching him play when the cards came to LA, but all he did was play baseball--nothing intrinsically heroic.

The question I have is what will fans do this coming season? After all, there have been steroid rumors surrounding a number of players for the past few years and yet game attendance increased last year. Baseball has been selling the long ball since the late-90's. Will people turn out if certain home run kings are no longer able to produce 50 or 60 home runs per season?

~Adam

[quote]canmark:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JC:
The second 60 Minutes installment was interesting. Tony LaRussa admits that it was known by everyone that Jose was on something (steroids), yet Sandy Alderson (then GM of the A's, now MLB's VP of Operations) pretends he didn't know this. Alderson admits he had suspicions, yet when Mike Wallace asks \"Did you ever confront Canseco\" he says \"No.\" Isn't that called \"Turning a blind eye?\" Everybody in baseball knew: players, coaches, trainers, management. But they turned a blind eye.
[/quote]What was someone like Sandy Alderson to do...report to MLB his "suspicions" of "possible" steroid use among one of his star players during a pennant race? I mean c'mon, that's not realistic. This whole issue of steroids should have been addressed back then by then Commissioner of Baseball, Fay Vincent or whoever it was. Drugs was certainly made an issue and dealt with, and so should steroids. Because as you say, if everyone supposedly knew, then he too would've known?

Any other interesting tidbits on 60 mins 2nite? I missed it.

Thats one of the things that really pisses me off. Baseball and its players are totally trying to discredit Canseco. As if they needed to. What makes it worse, is when the media already take a side before reporting upon it. That is the problem with having fans and players be reporters. They can't step aside and say, "hey, maybe Canseco is a shmuck. But maybe hes telling the truth about some of this stuff."

What makes McGwire untouchable anyway?

And now Mike Greenwell, formerly of the Red Sox and runnerup to Canseco for the MVP, wants MLB to take the award away from Canseco and give it to him.

Good luck with that Mike.

All the guys who finished second to Bonds during his 7 MVPs are preparing their cases as I type.

Wow, check this out. It makes me wonder if this goes beyond baseball and into other sports. I know it exist in football, but never heard of anything in basketball. hmmmm...

[img]http://msn.foxsports.com/id/3399024[/img]

The San Jose Mercury-News on Tony LaRussa.

Mike Lupica's column in the New York Daily News. Finally, somebody agrees with me.

MLB still looks other way

-----------

Mor from the NY Daily News



[ February 18, 2005, 06:52 AM: Message edited by: canmark ]

The people have spoken: ESPN survey comes down on Bonds, Giambi.

Frank Robinson speaks out against steroids.

[ February 18, 2005, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: canmark ]

One of the players accused by Canseco, Pudge Rodriguez, showed up for spring training noticeably lighter. 22 pounds lighter. He says he lost the weight to increase his mobility and extend his career.

In past years, it would often be remarked how certain players 'bulked up' during the winter. Could it be that this year, the first year of steroid testing, that we will see players who have 'slimmed down?'

Guess we'll have to come up with a new nickname for the slimmer Pudge. Pudge Light?

Amazing how all these guys will coincidentally be slimmer this season. Did they all join Oprah's Fit Club or read Dr. Phil's weight loss book this offseason?

Actually this started last spring training. Guys like Jason Giambi and Barry Bonds were showing up and looking as if they had just finished Richard Simmons' Deal-A-Meal program. But obviously there will be many more this spring.

It cracked me up when Jason Giambi would tell reporters like Tim Kurkjian who asked about his weight loss that he had lost just 4 pounds!

This year, I think we can expect lots of coverage when players show up suddenly slim.

~Adam

Agreed. While it's a stretch to say McGwire and Sosa \"saved\" baseball after the 1994 strike, they're widely credited with making all the boo-boos from the strike go away. Baseball got enourmous publicity because of those two; people who normally didn't give a damn about baseball became involved. MLB can't very well say \"Well, OK, sure, McGwire was juicing, but hey! what about him picking up his son after hitting the record-breaking home run! Mom, baseball and apple pie! That's America!\". They have a vested interest in discrediting Canseco. If some players get nabbed during testing this year, the focus will be on the owners and Beelzebud Selig, not the horrible make-up job on Canseco on 60 Minutes.

Oh, and Trot Nixon of the Red Sox just needs to shut his trap about the workout habits of Pay-Rod. This would be the Trot Nixon who showed up in spring training a few years ago having gained 30 pounds of muscle in the offseason and promptly started have injury problems.

I'm sorry, I'm not saying this because I hate the Dodgers--honest, Steve Garvey was my first lust object--but really, the "Steve Garvey in the Hall" people need to give it a rest. He was a good hitter and an absolutely mediocre first baseman. The joke among Dodger fans who would sit behind third base was "If Garvey throws the ball this way, duck". One of the criterias for Hall entry is that the player should have been the premiere player at his position during the time he played and that was *not* Steve Garvey, despite those sexy as f**k forearms and his huge dick.

*Cough* Anyways. Since I love baseball for pitching, defense and things like the hit-and-run and bunting, I don't care if the musclehead "hit a ball 500 feet" thing dies out, I'd be happy it did.

Frank Robinson's comments on the issue raise some serious questions about whether sports in general can weather this storm about chemical enhancement in sports.

There is legislation supported by President Bush to weaken legal suits, but will that prevent well-heeled people from suing because their career has been damaged by some roid-raging pitcher or linebacker? This issue could get bad.

[ February 20, 2005, 05:55 AM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]

I wonder if Frank Robinson had ever suspected Vladimir Guerrero while he played for the Expos. You never know considering his ability to hit massive shots into the gaps and center field. Unlike Barry Bonds we do not know how Guerrero looked early on in his life because he came into baseball in 1997 well after the Canseco/McGwire debut.

[ February 20, 2005, 05:37 AM: Message edited by: amazin12 ]

Yankee fans take note: a 2000 Yankee World Series ring can be yours for only $40,000. Vendor motivated to sell. Who is the seller? None other than Jose Canseco.

Jose's book tour kicks off this week. In addition to places like the Barnes & Nobles in Rockefeller Center, he's to be found in assorted bookstores, Borders, Costco and Sam's Clubs.

What's that about Steve Garvey's "huge dick"??!!

Guess his book deal wasn't for as much as he needed.

[Like Lili Von Schtup in Blazing Saddles] It's twue! It's twue, oh it's twue!

I used to have a picture that I'd cut out from the Los Angeles Times--disastrously lost in an apartment move--of the serial impregnator from a Steve Garvey 10K. He was wearing silk running shorts and IT was clearly visible (he's cut, by the way). I'll never figure out how a picture of Garvey with a clearly visible full-on boner got past the photo editor, but still. I've not been able to find that picture anywhere on the Net.

One of the side effects of the Frank Robinson thing (and Mike Greenwell, the former Red Sox, has spoken up too) is that retired players that didn't juice are starting to mumble about the players that *did* and how they're pissed off that their records are being broken by cheaters. I'd feel more pissed off if I was a marginal player that lost a job or even a chance to play in the majors to someone who was juicing.

It'll be verrrrrry interesting to see if, when Barry Bonds nears Hank Aaron's home run record, Aaron shows up to see the moment and congratulate Bonds. I'd be happy if he didn't, but I bet MLB will put some pressure on him to be there.

Aaron doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would allow MLB to pressure him to do anything he didn't ant to do. What will also be interesting is to see if he hits the HR at home or on the road. At home Giants fans will undoubtedly go berserk. But on the road may be a completely different story.

They're saying that Giambi got a warm welcome from Yankee fans at Spring training. I guess there's no such thing as bad publicity.



[ February 21, 2005, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: canmark ]

Interesting article at ESPN, speculating on what people in baseball might say if they were honest. A couple fictitious players:

Hugo Owthormone, slugger; never tested positive


I saw Jason Giambi's tortured press conference, and you know what? I felt ashamed. Not because of the steroids I took -- but because we've let Jason take the hit for all of us. He's become Mr. Steroids, the guy who's going to take a lot of abuse, but we all know the problem involved hundreds of us over two decades.


So here I am today, being honest, showing leadership, making sure that Jason does not stand alone. I took steroids, for all the reasons Jason mentioned here today -- a desire to be great, the need to keep up with the steroid users, the need to cash in before my baseball career was over. I was a fringe major-leaguer and with help from the juice, I hit 30 homers, made an All-Star team. I thought I had a shot to excel in my job, and I took it.


String Bean, All-Star pitcher who never took steroids


Of course I saw what was happening. One suspected steroid user walked shirtless through the clubhouse before the '97 All-Star Game and his entire back was covered with acne. Somebody threw a T-shirt at him and said, "Hey, stop being so obvious about it." Another thirtysomething pitcher showed up to our camp with huge biceps and cut off his sleeves to show them off. How pathetic.


It was a problem, undoubtedly. But you know what I and the other clean players did about it? Almost nothing. We griped privately, complained. But when we had team meetings, I stayed silent. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Kind of sad, really.

The union leaders advised us against testing because of privacy concerns, but I knew it was much more complicated than that. The users were putting us all in a bind, forcing us to consider using steroids, taking jobs away from non-users. I know a few pitchers who got injured on balls hit back through the middle from suspected users, and for almost two decades, what did I say about it? Nothing.


Now anybody who played in the steroid era of 1987-2003 is stained, and I'm furious about that. Some writer asked me the other day how I managed to pitch into my late 30s injury-free, and I thought he smirked when I told him about my workout regimen. That's ridiculous; I never took anything. I blame the users, I blame the owners, I blame everybody -- including myself.

Anybody see Barry Bonds' press conference? What an arroagant, condescending schmuck. Not usually one to wish ill on somebody but it's this kind of crap that makes me waish he'd get to 713 and then suffer a career ending hammy or knee injury. Anice guy like Tedy Bruschi suffers a stroke and this pompous ass walsk around talking to reporters (and in turn us) like we're all 5 years old. Such an unlikeable man.

[ February 22, 2005, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: George_Twinsfan ]

They showed bits of it on Sportscenter. The early portions they showed weren't all that interesting, although he looked really hot as he was going to sit down. wink

Later they showed the portions where he said everyone in the media lies, etc. Typical Bonds being a jackass. I don't understand why reporters aren't more challenging sometimes -- not just to Bonds but in any situation. The questions they ask are often so innocuous or they try to dance around the issue so as to not get the person mad at them. I'd rather the charade be dropped. Ask someone like Bonds the tough questions. If he walks out, it's on him. Unless he's going to address his BALCO testimony or his steroid use, there's nothing interesting coming out of his mouth anyway.

On Sportscenter they also showed a clip of Canseco on "Cold Pizza." He claims that a lie-detector test is "in the works." Yeah, suuuuuuuuure.

[ February 22, 2005, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]