It looks like the new home for the Expos will be announced in July and operations in the new venue will begin in 2005. It seems like an eternity this team has been in limbo. Although I've always preferred the Blue Jays, it will be sad to see our other 'Canadian' team disappear. Of the locations listed in the article, the one I've heard the most speculation about in the media here is Norfolk, VA, although I know at least one Outsporter who would likely prefer Northern Virginia or Washington DC.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story.asp?ID=68...194&hubName=mlb

[ January 15, 2004, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: Marc ]

DC/Northern Virginia still is the most logical choice, BY FAR, but now that Selig has added Peter Angelos to MLB's "executive council" it looks like it will be even tougher to get the Expos to move here....taken from someone who formerly lived in Hampton Roads (Norfolk/Virginia Beach) for about 8 years, I think Norfolk would turn out to be a terrible location for the Expos to relocate in the long run and I seriously doubt that anyone with MLB considers Tidewater to be a REAL contender....don't get me wrong -- I still love the area (especially Virginia Beach in the summer and all those cute Navy boys all over town wink ) BUT Hampton Roads is simply NOT a major league sports town....the average per capita income there is VERY low (due in large part to the nominal salaries that the tens of thousands of young, enlisted military personnel in town are receiving), the population is largely transient (for the same reasons stated above) making it difficult to establish a loyal fan base and they barely support Old Dominion University athletics and the AAA Norfolk Tides, who DO play in a terrific minor league stadium, albeit with a seating capacity of well under 20K.

Any independent observer who legitimately compares the population size, wealth, local media, existing stadium (RFK with a seating capacity of over 50K that would more than adequately suffice for two years while the new stadium was being built) and public transportation access in the DC/NoVa market with ANY of the other "competing" locales would quickly come to the same conclusion regarding where the future home of the Expos should be....however, we all know that "inside politics" (and I'm NOT talking about the Congressman on the Hill this time) are playing a CRUCIAL role here, thanks to Selig, Reinsdorf and the group of corrupt cronies that they have surrounded themselves with.

I still hold out hope that the RIGHT decision will be made (for the betterment of the franchise, if no other) and that the Expos WILL be playing at RFK in April 2005 but after being given false promises for SO many years, I can see why a growing number of my fellow Washingtonians have become so cynical on this matter.

[ January 20, 2004, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

Just curious what kind of attendance numbers did the Expos have in Montreal during the seasons in which they were competitive? I'm not referring to the last couple of seasons after all of this contraction/relocation stuff, but the playoff and pennant race seasons.

I'd like to find out how popular their "home" games were in Puerto Rico, which is to me the best choice if they wish to remain in the NL East.

[ January 16, 2004, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: FeverDog ]

George, Feverdog, I think this link will answer your questions about Les Expos and their attendance figures.

web page

Thanks for the link, BP. Ooh, quite a jump in attendence last season - perhaps proof that a ML team somewhere in the Caribbean is a viable option?

Feverdog, the figures are somewhat misleading because they don't breakout the difference between attendance at each park.

Hiram Walker (or whatever the name is) stadium can only hold 6,000 more people than the overall season average. If you factor in 22 games at that amount you get 132,000 or about 2/3 of the total jump in attendance. Decent in terms of percentage, but they are still dead last for the NL. Looks like a lot of US fans crossed the border to see one last Montreal game.

Over a whole season in PR, attendance would be about 1.5 million. Good for Montreal standards, but still 14th in the NL (behind the Pirates and Marlins! eek! ) Plus, in San Juan you don't have the TV/radio contract exposure, or the fan base's ability to pay as much. Outside of Puerto Rico, you have the whole dollar conversion issue, which is probably worse than staying in Quebec.

The only place in the Carribean baseball could probably work. Cuba. NOT GUNNA TO HAPPEN. frown

It's interesting that, even after the '94 strike that everyone talks about as the breaking point, it wasn't until 1998 when the bottom really dropped out. In 1997 they were still averaging over 18,000 per game, which is in line with most of the Stade Olympique years. Then in 1998 it dropped to just over 11,000, after Pedro Martinez won the Cy Young award and was then traded to Boston. It seems that was the real breaking point, when fans realized that ownership was not going to keep star players very long.

1994 was the watershed year. The Expos had a great team that year and were wiping the floor with everyone until the strike wiped out the season. I'm pretty sure that they would have won the WS that year and with that boost, who knows what could have happened?

To be fair, the Outsporters who went there last year could comment in more detail, but from my chair here in Los Angeles, the Big Owe seems like an awful place to watch a baseball game. I certainly remember what it was like to watch a ball game in a soulless cavern (see: Anaheim Stadium when it was configured for football, in addition to baseball) so I certainly sympathize. But, on the other hand, my favorite band, ELP recorded a live album/film at the Big Owe in 1977, so it can't be all bad!

Joe, check your Private Messages (I always forget to do and so I have stuff from August that hasn't been answered).

[ January 17, 2004, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

The Montreal Alouettes (of the Canadian Football League) found great success moving out of Olympic Stadium and into McGill (University) Stadium. McGill is outdoors, near downtown, and smaller than the Big O. From what I'm told, the Alouettes went from a half empty stadium to automatic sell-outs following the change of venue (the Toronto Argonauts also have plenty of empty seats in the SkyDome and ownership is considering building a new, smaller stadium at either the U of Toronto or York U). If the Expos could move to a smaller outdoor venue they might have similar results, although I don't think it's worth building a whole new stadium.

Jim Allen, I guess I would say I'm lucky to have seen games in both Anaheim Stadium and Olympic Stadium. I would prefer to see a game in Montreal though because the place, even if empty, has a different and fun atmosphere. IMO, it must be the French-Canadian influence. The Anaheim game I saw was boring, and even people watching the fans was boring.

Though Las Vegas will never get a pro team (all that temptation....) I would dearly love MLB to head there &, as a test, let Pete Rose manage the team. "Ain't I a devil?"

~Adam

Gamecock has made a rather convincing case for the Expos to relocate to the DC area, although I think an opening date of April 2004 is a bit overly-optimistic wink (I'm sure he meant 2005). Even though Baltimore is nearby, I guess the population of the area could easily support two MLB teams, just as two NFL teams are there already.

On the other hand...I don't know how seriously Monterrey is being considered, but locating there would certainly give MLB a more international flavour, with teams in three separate countries. And of course, given the large number of Spanish-speaking players and the popularity of baseball in Latin America, it seems like a plausible option. Monterrey has well over a million people, and is apparently the wealthiest city in Mexico, so presumably ticket sales would be fairly good. Also, Monterrey is near the US border, so it's not too far off the beaten track for other teams.

I'm a little surprised there appears to have been no interested bid from New Orleans. I think the area is large enough to support a team (it's had an NFL team for many years), and its location is far enough away from Houston, St Louis and the Florida teams so as not to compete with their markets.

One question maybe someone can answer for me. If Portland or Las Vegas is chosen, would the team still play in the NL East, or would a re-alignment of divisions be in order? I haven't seen that subject addressed. The only semi-logical scenario I can envision is to move Pittsburgh from the NL Central to the NL East, put Colorado in the Central and thus free up a spot in the NL West for Portland or Vegas. Obviously if DC or Virginia is selected, this would not be an issue.

You're right, Marc, I meant to say April 2005 -- another typo on my part ....as I mentioned before, DC/NoVa remains the most logical choice BY FAR but with O's owner Peter Angelos just appointed to MLB's "Executive Council" and Selig announcing that the Expos will definitely NOT be playing in Montreal in 2005 (which is unfortunately one year before the incompetent commish finally retires), I'm not overly optimistic about baseball returning to the Nations Capital anymore....and those fans and "outsiders" who believe that Baltimore and DC are the same market are simply unfamiliar with this area -- "Charm City" may be only 50 miles up the road but the 2+ hour commute from anywhere near DC virtually 24/7 should quiet a few critics and make that a non-issue (even though that hasn't taken place, largely due to Angelos' incessant whining about losing part of his "fan base").

Having said all that, however, given the demographics and stadium issues of all the cities that are supposedly "in the running" I honestly can't see how the other 28 owners (excluding Angelos and all politics aside) can vote to move the 'Spos anywhere else.

I went to a game in '02, fearing it was their last season. Sounds like I need to make a return trip this summer.

For the new season, Olympic stadium will have a new artificial turf. If the team is leaving and not even play all home games here, it looks like money thrown away.

The Expos will be seen on TV this year! Twenty games will be televised. Again, they make an effort to show the players now that it's decided they move. The effort could have been made before.

The old turf had to go, even if this is the last season they're in that stadium. It serves MLB right for wasting so much time resolving the situation that now they have to spend money for a one-year carpet.

Any idea how much the new rug is going to cost? I hope it costs $93 billion and is charged to Selig's credit card.

Actually, Bud was trying to buy himself a new toupee, but there was a slight misunderstanding...

I remembered this discussion about attendance numbers when I saw some numbers earlier in the month. I kept the newspaper and finally found the thread.

In 2003, attendance at the Big O was 711,000 people for 59 games (average of 12,000). The year before it was 800,000 for an entire season of real home games.