Friends,
I don't often get the desire or time to read much. When I do, it's usually on a plane during the offseason. During the season, I don't read on planes, for I'm busy with work-related activities. I also don't sleep well on planes unless it's an overseas flight.
On a recent trip, I read a book which I heartily recommend to anyone out there who loves baseball. Written by former Commissioner Fay Vincent, the book is entitled The Last Commissioner: A Baseball Valentine.
This novel encompasses a wide variety of topics, including much material dedicated to Fay's outlook of the game past and present, with many parts covering famous persons involved in the game.
Included among this is Pete Rose. I decided to excerpt a few sections from Fay's book. These excerpts deal with the investigation and subsequent banishment of Rose from baseball. After reading the chapter on Rose, one cannot come to any conclusion other than he truly deserved banishment. Furthermore, he also does not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.
Also, the reader of the book will learn just how horrible people like Selig and Reinsdorf are. I single these two individuals out mainly because they are the principal architects behind everything bad about the game (collusion, ousting of Vincent, lying, cheating, manipulating, etc.).
It is no secret to my family and friends what my opinion of MLB's officials is. After reading the book, perhaps you will agree. I chose the Rose excerpts mainly because I've been asked about this numerous times...
Excerpts:
When I'm asked about Rose, people generally pose one or more of the following five questions. I will answer them here, knowing that I will continue to answer them as long as I walk this baseball-loving earth.
Did Rose bet?
Absolutely. The evidence in the Dowd report is overwhelming and Rose has never offered any rebuttal to it. For me, there are three convincing elements to the evidence: The calls he made from the clubhouse to his bookie, the calls he made from home to his bookie, and the testimony of his former friend, Tommy Gioiosa.
Marge Schott's frugality was costly to her beloved manager. The Reds owner was angry at the number of personal calls being made from the clubhouse phones, calls she had to pay for, so she decided to keep records of all outgoing calls. We got those records. They showed many calls by Rose, just before the start of games. And who was he calling? His bookie, Ron Peters. Rose was asked many times why he would call Peters immediately before game time. He never gave an explanation.
We also got the calling records from his home phone. They showed many calls to his bookie in the middle of the summer, when there was no basketball or football to bet on. (Rose did bet the horses and dogs at the tracks.) Again, Rose couldn't or wouldn't explain who made the calls if he didn't. Peters confirmed the betting.
Finally, there are baseball betting slips with Rose's handwriting and fingerprints on them. What more evidence, short of a confession, could there be?
What's so bad about betting on your own team?
As far as we could tell, Rose always bet on the Reds to win. But he bet only on select days. A manager who bets on certain days has an inherent corrupt conflict. He might, for instance, save his relievers for days he plans to bet. He might leave a starter in longer, depending on how much he cares about the outcome. More important, a gambling manager might amass large debts, then be unable to pay off those debts without doing special favors for the bookie. The logic behind MLB Rule 21 is sound: Anyone who bets on a game in which he has an interest is banned for life. The punishment for betting on games in which you have no interest is a one-year suspension. Commissioner Judge Kennesaw Landis knew what he was doing.
Is there any evidence of Rose betting on specific games?
Yes. Ron Peters, Rose's main bookie, recorded Rose's bets. The records show the dates of specific games. We collected corresponding slips noting these specific bets with Pete Rose's name and fingerprints on them.
Is it troubling that so many of those who testified against Rose are lowlifes, felons, and drug dealers?
Asked that question, the wise old baseball man Frank Slocum once said, "Hey, Rose didn't hang around with priests, lawyers, and college professors. The guys he was close to are the guys who testified. His buddies were lowlifes. Those were the guys he was comfortable with."
Why is betting treated differently than doing illegal drugs, as Steve Howe did?
Two answers. First, there's the baseball constitution, called the Major League Agreement, drafted by Landis. The agreement specifies that gambling on your own team is the lone capital crime. Second, corruption in baseball is the only serious threat to the game. The 1919 Black Sox scandal nearly killed baseball. Drugs are a serious problem, but they hurt the individual primarily, they don't go to the heart of the game. The Steve Howe case never threatened to undermine the entire institution, but widespread gambling is cancer. The players union has claimed that taking drugs is basically a medical problem, and society accepts it as such. They have not yet taken that view of gambling. Gambling on baseball by those involved in the game is a colossally undisciplined, selfish, and foolish act. Pete Rose, I believe, simply refused to believe anyone would apply the rules to him. He thought he was too big to be challenged. Bart [Giamatti], wisely, thought otherwise.
I think Rose's ultimate failing as a person was the thing that made him great as a player: his arrogance. A writer for USA Today, Hal Bodley, once said to me, "Fay, this is not something I could ever write, because Rose and I were friends, but there's something you should know. You should never feel a moment of guilt about kicking Rose out of the game. He bet on baseball. I know because I was with him when he did. He bet on baseball when he was with the Phillies in 1981. We were in a hotel dining room and he kept running out of the room to talk to someone on the phone and it was clear he was talking to bookies. I said to him, 'Pete, are you betting on baseball?' He said, 'Oh, sure. I've been doing that for a long time.' I said, 'If you don't stop that and they catch you you'll be finished.' Rose said, 'They'll never bother me. I'm too big.' " That's Rose.
...It is my view Joe Jackson should not be in the Hall of Fame, either. He took money from gamblers to fix a World Series. He undermined fans' trust in the game. The fact is, he endangered the game and his responsibility was to reveal the gamblers' plot to the authorities. Rose, to me, demonstrates a character with even deeper flaws because of his arrogance and lack of regret. I wouldn't want to see either in the Hall of Fame.
###
Full Version: Recommended Reading (and info on Pete Rose, too)
Sounds like a pretty cool book UMP25. I'll check out Amazon as soon as I'm finished with Schweitzer's 2-volume biography of J. S. Bach. I read on the BART here in SF everyday on the way home. Going to work I read the Chronicle, but it's books on the way home. Thanks!
Thanks for the recommendation Ump25....I will definitely buy the book (via the Amazon.com link from Outsports, btw) and I firmly agree with your stance on Rose, Selig, Reinsdorf, et al.... all the fans who advocate that Rose should be forgiven because "over a decade has passed" are doing the game a huge disservice....as Commissioners both Fay Vincent and Bart Giamatti unquestionably acted to preserve the integrity of the game they loved (unlike Selig, I might add) and it has been mentioned that Peter Ueberroth chose not to remain as Commissioner because he knew about the allegations that were forthcoming against Rose and Ueberroth did not want to (or did not have the guts) to preside over the upcoming "scandal".
In either event, I have always had the utmost respect for both Vincent and his longtime, late friend Giamatti and I eagerly look forward to reading his comments and learning more TRUTH about our National Pasttime -- something we will rarely hear come from the mouth of Selig and his corrupt cronies.
[ November 24, 2002: Message edited by: gamecock ]
In either event, I have always had the utmost respect for both Vincent and his longtime, late friend Giamatti and I eagerly look forward to reading his comments and learning more TRUTH about our National Pasttime -- something we will rarely hear come from the mouth of Selig and his corrupt cronies.
[ November 24, 2002: Message edited by: gamecock ]
[quote]Originally posted by gamecock:
Thanks for the recommendation Ump25....I will definitely buy the book (via the Amazon.com link from Outsports, btw) and I firmly agree with your stance on Rose, Selig, Reinsdorf, et al.... all the fans who advocate that Rose should be forgiven because "over a decade has passed" are doing the game a huge disservice....as Commissioners both Fay Vincent and Bart Giamatti unquestionably acted to preserve the integrity of the game they loved (unlike Selig, I might add) and it has been mentioned that Peter Ueberroth chose not to remain as Commissioner because he knew about the allegations that were forthcoming against Rose and Ueberroth did not want to (or did not have the guts) to preside over the upcoming "scandal".
IMHO, I personally believe that if Rose would just come forward and admit his wrongdoings, and ask for forgiveness, he'd go a long way to perhaps having his lifetime banishment lifted. No one knows for sure if this would be the result, for I could be completely wrong; however, it might be a start. BTW, Vincent covers the Ueberroth angle in his book.
[quote]
In either event, I have always had the utmost respect for both Vincent and his longtime, late friend Giamatti and I eagerly look forward to reading his comments and learning more TRUTH about our National Pasttime -- something we will rarely hear come from the mouth of Selig and his corrupt cronies.
There's a reason why Vincent considers himself the "Last Commissioner," and he's right. The power structure that currently runs the game, Selig and Reinsdorf, is deplorable. I truly don't believe the game will recover fully until those two especially are purged from the game. Sadly, I think only their deaths will accomplish that.
Giamatti and Vincent were truly two wonderful persons, so right for the game (Giamatti especially). Oh, what could have been had Bart not suddenly died. Those two worked very well with the umpires. While I did not reach the major league level until after their tenure, I was in the minors during their reigns. Just about every professional umpire--minor and major league--with whom I had spoken expressed a love of these two gentlemen.
Then come Selig and his cronies. What a complete difference.
Thanks for the recommendation Ump25....I will definitely buy the book (via the Amazon.com link from Outsports, btw) and I firmly agree with your stance on Rose, Selig, Reinsdorf, et al.... all the fans who advocate that Rose should be forgiven because "over a decade has passed" are doing the game a huge disservice....as Commissioners both Fay Vincent and Bart Giamatti unquestionably acted to preserve the integrity of the game they loved (unlike Selig, I might add) and it has been mentioned that Peter Ueberroth chose not to remain as Commissioner because he knew about the allegations that were forthcoming against Rose and Ueberroth did not want to (or did not have the guts) to preside over the upcoming "scandal".
IMHO, I personally believe that if Rose would just come forward and admit his wrongdoings, and ask for forgiveness, he'd go a long way to perhaps having his lifetime banishment lifted. No one knows for sure if this would be the result, for I could be completely wrong; however, it might be a start. BTW, Vincent covers the Ueberroth angle in his book.
[quote]
In either event, I have always had the utmost respect for both Vincent and his longtime, late friend Giamatti and I eagerly look forward to reading his comments and learning more TRUTH about our National Pasttime -- something we will rarely hear come from the mouth of Selig and his corrupt cronies.
There's a reason why Vincent considers himself the "Last Commissioner," and he's right. The power structure that currently runs the game, Selig and Reinsdorf, is deplorable. I truly don't believe the game will recover fully until those two especially are purged from the game. Sadly, I think only their deaths will accomplish that.
Giamatti and Vincent were truly two wonderful persons, so right for the game (Giamatti especially). Oh, what could have been had Bart not suddenly died. Those two worked very well with the umpires. While I did not reach the major league level until after their tenure, I was in the minors during their reigns. Just about every professional umpire--minor and major league--with whom I had spoken expressed a love of these two gentlemen.
Then come Selig and his cronies. What a complete difference.
Color me naive if you will, but I'm not ready to make a harsh decision on the fate of Pete Rose, at least, not until I've read the book, which sounds like a good one.
As for the title "The Last Commissioner," I don't think a better one exists.
Has anyone thought of candidates against Selig? Kinda like a Shadow Commissioner? One name that immediately comes to mind is Rudy Giuliani, although his Yankees bias may get in the way. Any others?
As for the title "The Last Commissioner," I don't think a better one exists.
Has anyone thought of candidates against Selig? Kinda like a Shadow Commissioner? One name that immediately comes to mind is Rudy Giuliani, although his Yankees bias may get in the way. Any others?
I read another book about Pete Rose specifically a few years ago (the name and author escape me now, the book is in my house so the earliest I could look for it is this weekend). He is guilty. That book didn't have perhaps as much of the details and background that Vincent's book has, but there's no doubt about his guilt.
[quote]Originally posted by cubsfan1982:
Color me naive if you will, but I'm not ready to make a harsh decision on the fate of Pete Rose, at least, not until I've read the book, which sounds like a good one.
As for the title "The Last Commissioner," I don't think a better one exists.
Has anyone thought of candidates against Selig? Kinda like a Shadow Commissioner? One name that immediately comes to mind is Rudy Giuliani, although his Yankees bias may get in the way. Any others?
If you read the book, you'll understand that George W. Bush was actually in line, if you want to call it that, to become Commissioner when Vincent left. In fact, GW and Fay had spoken about it often. Selig promised Bush that he would support him completely. To make a long story short, Selig lied and betrayed Bush. Selig had always wanted the job for himself.
Fay's book goes into detail about this, just as it does w/ Pete Rose.
Color me naive if you will, but I'm not ready to make a harsh decision on the fate of Pete Rose, at least, not until I've read the book, which sounds like a good one.
As for the title "The Last Commissioner," I don't think a better one exists.
Has anyone thought of candidates against Selig? Kinda like a Shadow Commissioner? One name that immediately comes to mind is Rudy Giuliani, although his Yankees bias may get in the way. Any others?
If you read the book, you'll understand that George W. Bush was actually in line, if you want to call it that, to become Commissioner when Vincent left. In fact, GW and Fay had spoken about it often. Selig promised Bush that he would support him completely. To make a long story short, Selig lied and betrayed Bush. Selig had always wanted the job for himself.
Fay's book goes into detail about this, just as it does w/ Pete Rose.
[quote]Originally posted by Ump25:
If you read the book, you'll understand that George W. Bush was actually in line, if you want to call it that, to become Commissioner when Vincent left. In fact, GW and Fay had spoken about it often. Selig promised Bush that he would support him completely. To make a long story short, Selig lied and betrayed Bush. Selig had always wanted the job for himself.
Fay's book goes into detail about this, just as it does w/ Pete Rose.
I'd heard about that, too. Think of what this country would've been spared from.
Though, in all seriousness, Dubya does love the game, one of the few redeeming qualities he has in my eyes. No one can deny that he's passionate about it. Has any thought at all been given to a former player becoming commissioner? Such as a Hank Aaron, Hall-of-Fame type?
[ November 26, 2002: Message edited by: cubsfan1982 ]
If you read the book, you'll understand that George W. Bush was actually in line, if you want to call it that, to become Commissioner when Vincent left. In fact, GW and Fay had spoken about it often. Selig promised Bush that he would support him completely. To make a long story short, Selig lied and betrayed Bush. Selig had always wanted the job for himself.
Fay's book goes into detail about this, just as it does w/ Pete Rose.
I'd heard about that, too. Think of what this country would've been spared from.
Though, in all seriousness, Dubya does love the game, one of the few redeeming qualities he has in my eyes. No one can deny that he's passionate about it. Has any thought at all been given to a former player becoming commissioner? Such as a Hank Aaron, Hall-of-Fame type?
[ November 26, 2002: Message edited by: cubsfan1982 ]
[quote]Originally posted by cubsfan1982:
Has any thought at all been given to a former player becoming commissioner? Such as a Hank Aaron, Hall-of-Fame type?
Selig would have none of that. The owners would, in my opinion, vehemently oppose a former player becoming Commissioner. Keep this in mind: The Owners despise the Players Association. You truly don't realize how much they (a) hate them, and (
continue to think they can break the union. They do NOT want a commissioner who in any way would even be perceived as leaning toward the players.
This is what led to Vincent's downfall. As he explained in his book, the owners accused him of being too cozy and friendly with the players. They expected him to side with them on every matter involving the players.
Mark my word: Baseball will not turn around for the better until Selig, Reinsdorf et. al. are gone, and as far as I'm concerned, that couldn't happen too soon.
[ November 26, 2002: Message edited by: Ump25 ]
Has any thought at all been given to a former player becoming commissioner? Such as a Hank Aaron, Hall-of-Fame type?
Selig would have none of that. The owners would, in my opinion, vehemently oppose a former player becoming Commissioner. Keep this in mind: The Owners despise the Players Association. You truly don't realize how much they (a) hate them, and (
continue to think they can break the union. They do NOT want a commissioner who in any way would even be perceived as leaning toward the players.This is what led to Vincent's downfall. As he explained in his book, the owners accused him of being too cozy and friendly with the players. They expected him to side with them on every matter involving the players.
Mark my word: Baseball will not turn around for the better until Selig, Reinsdorf et. al. are gone, and as far as I'm concerned, that couldn't happen too soon.
[ November 26, 2002: Message edited by: Ump25 ]
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