This board certainly has quieted up since the end of the Open. There IS still tennis going on. The China Open is happening this week with Nadal, Moya, Coria, Nalbandian, and Ferrero among others participating. There aren't really any superior hard court players in the draw so its up for several guys to win. No Federer, no Hewitt, no Roddick, no Agassi. I even think James Blake and Robby Ginepri could've done well there.


[Thread title modified for clarity - Outsports moderator]

[ October 23, 2005, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: m1 ]

My big question for the fall is Capriati. Is she going to play some tournaments to see where she is at? I think she should. That surgery was January, so she's had time to heal. I'd like to see her play and she is listed at Linz and possibly Philly.

Even thought I despise JenCap's on court antics and off court demeanor more than any other player on tour, I do hope that she's able to mount a (yet another) comeback.

Personally, if I were in her entourage, I would advocate playing in the fall because she needs to get some match play before she heads Down Under for Melbourne. Granted, indoor cours (Carpet & Hardcourts) are much different than Rebound Ace, but she really needs to get into match shape. I think that she, more than any other player on tour, MUST have matches to play her way into shape. Her loss to Weingartner in 2003 is indicative of what could happen with a lack of match preparation.

(BTW, it was PAINFULLY difficult to get through a message without an attack towards JenCap ... I will now bang my head into the wall repeatedly to dull said pain.)

Nick

[ September 16, 2005, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: The_Hammerman ]

You did well, my young Jedi knight. May the Force be with your head.

She should play some Tier III or even IV tournament(s) just to see where the hell she is at. She can leave her moddy father at home (but bring Steven, her brother).

Oi, is that brother ever hot...yeesh!

Boy those tennis brothers certainly are hot, aren't they? JCap's brother Steven, Pierce's brother David and does anyone remember Gaby's brother? I think his name was Oswaldo or something. Okay back to tennis. Is JCap fully healed from her surgeries? If so, it might be a good idea just to get out there and play a couple of tournaments. I think a couple wins would do her a world of good.

*grumbles* ... Fire Crotch showing a sign of maturity on a message board? *GASP* SAY IT AIN'T SO!

Davenport is absolutely coasting in Bali, *shrug* ... While she has more points to defend than Sharpie (D'oh! I didn't factor in the EOYC, but I still think that she does.), we're going to have quite a fight for the #1 ranking with Kimmy and even Momo in the mix as well.

*gasp* What a concept ... the EOYC ACTUALLY determining who finishes the year at #1?!?!?!?

Nick

Well Nadal just pushed Juanqui aside today and breezed into the final of the China Open with a 4 and 4 win. This was AFTER Nadal had to play 2 matches the day before, due to rain, against Gimelstob which was a tough 3 setter, and Peter Wessels. He reaches his 11th final of 2005 and will face Guillermo Coria. Coria is a good enough hard court player but so is Ferrero so I think Nadal will pick up another title. Go Rafa!

[ September 17, 2005, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: ltskinmdterp ]

Sharapova, Serena, Venus, and Lindsay at the China Open this week. Looks like a good 'ol fashioned WTA cat fight! Should be a good tournament.

Russia won the FeEd Cup. Dementieva was the "star" of the weekend. She defeated Mauresmo and Pierce and then she won (with Safina) the double match.

I'm sure Dimentieva's happy for her revenge. Her comments after her US Open loss to Pierce were still sour grapes, IMO, but good for her to be able to beat Pierce and Mauresmo in France and lead Russia to the Fed Cup win.

Looks as though Davenport is out of the China Open with that back injury. This may be a good move since she has some points to defend on the carpet, make sure she is healthy. The end of year championships should be good. We have 4 different Grand Slam winners, throw in Pierce, Davenport (runner up in 2 slam finals) and the Russian girls and this should be a great tourney.

Yesterday, I was going to post about how great it was that the tournament in Beijing was so stacked without any major withdrawls, *smirk*.

In Beijing, I have to go with Serena indoors. *shrug* I think that Sharpie & Serena both have pretty tame draws in order to meet in the semifinals. At that point, who knows? Venus could face a test with Jankovic, only if Venus is spraying balls on the court. Jelena has great defense and a little bit of pop on her backhand. I'd like for Molik to make a run, but she's looked horrible lately. The real final should be Serena-Sharpie.

A ton of my favorite obscure players are at Kolkata, I'll go with Likhovsteva here because Myskina must be tired after some lengthy Fed Cup matches. I'd like to see the Uberoi's & Mirza perform well here, but honestly, I see Mirza going out to Sprem. Karolina has looked like hell this year, but she has a big game ... bigger than Mirza's. It's amazing to read about all of the hype around Sania ... not that it's undeserved, but it sounds rather Jordan-esque.

Finally, at Potoroz, hell ... I don't even know what surface this tournament will be played on. *shrug* Either way, I like Benesova vs. Medina Garrigues in the finals. I think that Bartoli & Peschke could make things tough on Anabel in the bottom half, but Farina-Elia has been struggling with injuries since her great result at Amelia Island earlier this year. *shrug*

Nick

Venus defeated Sharapova in straight sets during an exhibition match, 4 and 4. Sharapova is basically a light weight Davenport (good serve and flat hard groundstrokes) so Venus should beat Maria considering her movement is better. Venus loses when she sprays the ball, ie US Open quarter but her movement makes Sharapova look like a turtle so the key is taking time away from Sharapova who will never be a good mover and isn't helping her cause by continuing to grow. With Lindsay withdrawing Venus has a clear path to the final and its her path to screw up. A Sharapova/Serena semi may be mouth watering and then of course the anti-WS crew would want Maria to beat Serena in the semis and Venus in the final. I don't know if Sharapova's "pec injury" is still bothering her. Someone said she's not serving as hard as she normally does.

Since the topic is the fall season, Serena better get her act together if she wants to make the year-end championships. If you look at the points standings, she is currently #11 and trails #8 Schnyder by 475 points. If Serena plays well and can win a couple Tier II tournaments and maybe even a Tier I event, she could make up some ground pretty quickly. But given her limited schedule (9 events in 2005 so far) and spotty results (she hasn't won a tournament since Aussie Open), she could find herself with an extra week of vacation while the other top players are in LA. Not the greatest media/PR angle for the tour to have one of its Grand Slam winners and marquee players miss out on the championships. While you could argue that Henin was in the same situation last year with only 9 tournaments, she actually won 5 of them and missed most of the season with her virus; the bigger story with Serena has been her commitment to her game with talk of a few nagging injuries thrown in for built-in excuses when she loses.

I think Serena is working hard to get back into better conditioning. If she doesn't make the year end championships so be it. I think she's gonna get herself healthy and back in shape to defend her Australian title. I'd like to know where all this lack of dedication crap comes from. I'm glad she addressed it in one of her post match conferences and said that she's sick of hearing that tennis isn't a top priority for her. Yes, she has outside interests and just because people like McEnroe and Carillo and the rest of the cackling commentators think she should follow a certain path doesn't mean she has to. I bet she and Venus have choice words for idiot commentators like Carillo, Fernandez, Shriver, and both McEnroe's who always talk out the side of their mouth about the sisters. Especially Pam, Mary Jo and Mary Carillo who are in no place to talk shit about either one because their grand slam singles results sucked. They have gotten far more criticism than warranted and I'm waiting for the day they both tell "the establishment" to kiss their asses.

As for the built-in excuses it seems as if all the players have them these days. Sharapova's usually includes "I'm only 18"

Hmm, I like Mary Carillo--she usually seems fair to me. It's Tracy Austin I can't stand--she clearly has her favorites (e.g. Davenport, Sharapova).

But to generally defend commentators for a moment, I don't think the criticism of Serena is entirely unfair. Serena, at her best, is untouchable--see, e.g. the 2002 French Open. Injuries have slowed her down, but Serena herself stated after Wimbledon that she didn't spend enough time training and practicing. Are commentators wrong for discussing this? I think not.

HOWEVER, I always thought the commentators were way too harsh on Venus. She always seemed focused--her dry spell between US Open 2001 and Wimby 2005 was due to the emergence of Serena and injuries, not off-court distractions.

[ September 20, 2005, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Neptune ]

mec ... I noticed the same thing myself. I think if Serena wants to make her quest to become #1 easier, she should focus on qualifying for the EOYC because there are a beaucoup of points to be had ... and she has a ton to defend as well.

(I wondered if the tournament would have a similar provision that they have at the Men's EOYC ... something about how a Grand Slam champion is automatically qualified to the event if they are within the Top 20. *scratches head*)

If Serena manages to win Beijing with a win over Sharpie (100 quality points to be had) ... a bit presumptuous, but it could happen ... she should be within 100 points of Schnyder. Patty has a knack for doing extremely well in Zurich, a Tier I indoor event, so she needs a great Fall season otherwise, Serena should pass her for a spot in the EOYC.

As for the commentators ... I've always thought that Mary Joe was one of the most unbiased commentators in sport ... she usually talks about action on the court and when she's coupled with Shriver, they're quite a dynamic duo. *shrug*

Side note: I just love how Pammy makes random comments ... She said something on camera during the Australian Open in 2003(?) about Patty Schynder's boyfriend that made me giggle ... something to the effect of, "WOW, he's lost a TON of weight." I heart Pam.

Nick

Erm ... Wow. Serena lost in straight sets to a rather unknown Chinese player Tiantian Sun 6-2, 7-6. Anyone who had that match called on their draw sheets deserves some major loot.

Nick

Damn, that is a shocking upset.

I don't think Serena's biggest problem is being out of shape or being injured, I think it's her attitude. Before this tourney, she had another press conference where she issued her intent to get No. 1 back and claimed that she still feels she is the best player in the world. I don't necessarily disagree with her in theory, but just because her natural gifts might make her the woman to beat when everyone is at the height of their game doesn't mean she isn't going to have to work to win matches from here on out.

Back when Venus and Serena emerged, they could take extended breaks - be it because of injury or scheduling conflicts or just because they felt like it - and still they'd come right back and win the next event they entered. Particularly Serena. But the other women got better because they had to in order to compete, which trickled down to the new generation of women that is arriving on the scene. Those girls play hard and play to win. While I think Serena knows this about her top competion, the players she meets in the late stages, I don't think she gives enough credit to the younger and lower ranked players. She goes into the match expecting to win on talent alone and that's not enough anymore.

Serena can still switch it on at times. The Australian Open was a prime example of that. But it's getting harder and harder. If she really wants No. 1 back and isn't just paying the media lip service, then she is going to have to get fitter and she is going to have to practice more often. But most of all, she's going to have to give her opponents more respect.

Serena is simply not ready. I said after the Rogers Cup in August that she should take an L for the rest of the year and get more strength back in that knee and get back into better conditioning and be ready to defend Australia in January. She lost a lot of strength she had built up in that knee because as a result of not being able to work out due to the ankle injury. I said that after her knee surgery she may never be the same again. Thats how knee injuries work. Sometimes the surgery is 100% successful but her play and movement just isn't as consistent as it was pre-surgery. If she gets in enough shape and conditioning though she can build up enough strength in it for it not to be such a problem. I hope she looks back on her dismal 2005 and uses it as an incentive to get with the program in 2006.

I mean she had to withdraw from half her tournaments or lost early so I mean if she gets herself together she can gain a lot of points next year. This loss puts her at #11 in the WTA rankings and she was already at 11 for the champions race. She's going to make life difficult for herself though when it comes to seeding for the Aussie Open. She'll more than likely have to play someone like a Venus or Kim in the 4th round and it get much tougher after that. So she needs to get it together, shed more pounds, and get the strength back in that knee. But she's got to put the work in.

Murray upsets Ginepri in 3 sets but I actually picked Murray to win that one. The kid has some great game and I think in 2006 he'll be rushing toward the top 20. Looks like the old Brits may have themselves a good feeling about him being a contender for Wimbledon sooner rather than later. I pick him over Srichipan in the semis too. Not sorry to see Hewitt lose though I can't wait for 2006. I think Murray, along with Monfils and Gasquet and possibly Djokovic will be really making a name for themselves. We got a taste of their talent this year. Hopefully they will keep it up.

and in fact he not only beat srichaphan, but also put up a really good fight against federe in today's final. that second set was very veeeery close. i really hope murray can keep it together and make it to places henman never quite managed.

Federer adds another 2005 title in Thailand

[ BBC Sports Thailand Open

[ October 02, 2005, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: swiminbuff ]

Great for Roger, and I love the reference to Muster in 95, oh those were the days.

Serena may have been the best player in the world for that period, and shows flashes of that level whenever she plays, but she's nowhere near that now. It's her constant chatter that attracts so much attention from commentators, etc. She might consider just letting her tennis do the talking if she actually thinks she has a chance to return to the top. The commentators know exactly what they're talking about, they know that 'bling bling' and other superficialites are prominent in Serena's universe. Worrying about her diamonds on the court during the US Open was a pathetic display in my mind. Consequently her losses don't suprise me. She's just not fully focused on tennis right now hence more injuries, more blah-blah-blah, more excuses whenever she's interviewed.

Cljisters is the best player in the world right now hands down. Even Serena's Australian Open win didn't demonstrate that she was the best player in the world at that time. It proved that both Maria and LD are quite capable of choking at any time in any match at any tournament. Serena's body has changed and thickened, and the wear and tear of so many years of tennis is clear to see. Venus, however, has shown herself capable of playing near the top of the game, and could stay there for another couple of years if interested.

Go Roger, go Andy. Men's tennis has so many exciting stories even with Roger's unavoidable dominance. I'm looking forward to the Masters at the end of the year and to whether or not Roger can make 2006 another dominant year. It won't be easy but I'll bet he's thinking about the French Open already as a main goal of 2006.

You know Bryan, I thought Roger was going to have a rough 05, trying to follow up his very impressive 04 year. And he went out there and did it, although falling short one Grand Slam, but he's still ssoo impressive. And you are right, men's tennis right now is just so interesting, even with the FedEx dominance. I don't really think, oh let me stop now before I jinx anything.

Actually, Shore, now that we're chatting (puff puff, refill please), the biggest Men's Tennis question of 2006 has already been posed:

Can Roger win the French Open, completing the rare career grand slam and filling the only hole on his resume? A resume likely to be considered the best ever...

I wonder if Nadal will be as dominant on clay next year as he was this year? What if it's the young guns who take out Nadal instead of Roger perhaps easing his road? Will Feliciano Lopez admit that he's loved me all along and will soon be moving in?

There are many more questions but i've grown distracted and must stare off into space...

Clijsters is the best HARD COURT player right now hands down. Has she won the Aussie Open? No. Has she won the French? No. Did she win a clay title this year? No. She got owned by Lindsay at the French and Wimbledon this year. Right now ok I'll give it to you she's the best in the world. I think it will change when the Australian Open comes around and when the clay season starts next year. I wish the grass season was longer. She is still not a complete player to me though but clearly the best player right now with heavy heavy emphasis on hard courts.

As for Serena, yes she needs to get herself back in shape and as for the bling, thats Serena. She brings that personality for the court and I think people are overreacting thinking its so much of a distraction. She wouldn't have done well without the bling cuz she's not in the best shape and she is not healing well with that knee. She is nowhere near as dominant as she used to be but I don't think girls are saying "oh yeah I want to face Serena"

As for the commentators, some of them have always talked out of the side of their mouths about them. I remember one day my aunt, who knows nothing about tennis was on the computer, back turned toward the tv while I was watching tennis, and said "Boy you can tell they don't want that girl to win (I can't remember if it was Venus or Serena playing) the way they are talking about her. So I mean...I don't care what no one says...I sometimes have to put the mute button on when watching because the commentators make me sick with some of their backhanded comments toward Venus and Serena. I like Venus' comment when she and Serena were on Oprah and even Oprah asked about the negative comments from the commentators. Venus said "well maybe they should pick up a racquet and show us how its done" which is basically Venus' way of saying "kiss my black ass" Good response Venus. wink

As for the men, I do think they are stealing the shine back from the ladies, much with the help of Nadal and the emerging young guns of Gasquet, Murray, and Monfils among a couple others. I don't think Nadal will be as dominant next year on clay but I do think he will add a more variety to his game and be better on hard courts. I've read that he isn't going to play as much clay next year but balance it out more with hard court tournaments. He's still not going to win Wimbledon anytime soon I think. He just doesn't have the game for it. His best chances at slams are the Australian Open with that high bouncing rebound ace and the French. Wimbledon I honestly don't think he'll ever win and I think he'll win the Aussie Open before he wins the US Open. So...we'll see. I'd like to see Federer win the grand slam next year though. If not I'd at least like to see him win the French to complete the career grand slam. I think that is going to be his main mission of 2004.

[ October 03, 2005, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: ltskinmdterp ]

All those young male players are extremely talented and full of potential...what a year it will be...I would love to see Roger pull off a grand slam during this time when the field is so deep...it would surely prove once and for all who the best player of all time is...And while Nadal certainly had an unbelievable year in 2005, I think he might actually get better next year. His mental game is really impressive and I think as great an asset as that ass of his, oops, I mean those legs and endurance and shots, of course...

Sure, and for good reason, the commentators aren't keen on the Williams sisters' ungracious comments towards other players, Serena's schlocky insistence on wearing expensive and distracting trinkets/outfits on the court, and that Serena keeps showing up to play while clearly out of shape. (Monica Seles, one of the most popular and gracious players of all time, was regularly took to task for not being in shape by the aforementioned commentators) But, from what I've heard, the commentators one and all always give props to the sisters' tennis games and especially to Mom Williams for being such a dedicated coach/parent. The Williams have always behaved as if beyond reproach. Why should they be any different than anyone else? Everyone in the public eye gets flack and they've given more than enough fodder to the media.

[ October 03, 2005, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Bryan ]

Well I do believe I said SOME of the commentators and not all. Outside of the $40,000 earrings worn at this year's US Open what other major bling has she worn on the court? I welcome it. Tennis needs to get off its bourgeoise attitude of wanting to stay so traditional. It was the US Open, New York, not Wimbledon. She's not nicknamed "the diva" for nothing. Also, I'm not complaining about their criticism of Serena's weight. That is something she needs to get a hold of but some of the other stuff is just petty. I swear they like to just stir stuff up on the women's side just to get some catty action going.

Do I think she needs to shed it all and go bare like Venus did at Wimbledon? Maybe...but tennis needs all the attention it can get as interest still isn't that high in the US. I just like the fact that Venus and Serena do it THEIR WAY and CONTINUE to do it their way regardless of what anyone says. Venus and Serena's sarcastic remarks in some of their post match conferences allude to the shade given off by some of the commentators regarding their outside interests. Serena has 7 slams and Venus has 5. They have Olympic medals, the career slam in doubles and yet Amelie Mauresmo has NONE, Davenport has 4, and Kim just picked up her first. So instead of picking on what Venus and Serena should or should not do, maybe Amelie needs to pick up an outside hobby to finally win a slam. I think both Venus and Serena proved this year that they can still turn it on a pick up a slam even though they are not among the list of favorites to do so.

As for hearing what we want to hear?? Possibly...but at least I know I'm not alone as the following articles state.

Williams sisters and commentator remarks
Williams Sisters vs the World

[ October 03, 2005, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: ltskinmdterp ]

Terp I have to agree. I have noticed that the commentators seem to be really harsh on both sisters for whatever reason. When they were dominating there really wasn't too much the commentators could say, especially about Serena who has won all 4 slams. I mean for christ's sake. Their sister is brutally murdered, they both have major injuries, and the tennis field has greater depth. Other girls have caught up and that time off made them lose that aura of invincibility. No, neither has had a great complete year since their comeback but of 4 slams played this year, Venus and Serena grabbed 1 each.

I think there is some truth to what Navratilova said, in that they may have not been so directly criticized because they are black and people didn't want to get accused of racism. However, I think one of those articles say it best in that sometimes they are playing and its like the commentators are damn near ready to go out on the court with cheerleading uniforms on for their opponents.

As for present day 2005 though, Venus has shown that she still has it in her to play at a high level. For Serena, she simply needs to get her body together. I have to agree with Bryan in that I'm sick of the bling as well and being so wrapped up in what she's wearing on the court. She needs to get her body together cuz if she loses early at the Australian Open she could find herself outside of the top 20. The good thing about 2006 is that if Serena does get healthy and can play consistently she will rise back into the top 10 as she hasn't played that much this year and the other tournaments she was in she either withdrew from or lost early. So as much as some may want to write off the two its not gonna happen.

I still think that Kim is the best player in the world though, regardless if she's only won on hard courts. She won the most titles this year and has a slam. But, like Terp said, we'll have to see what she does next year at the Aussie Open and on clay and again at Wimbledon. I agree she is not a complete player but she's the closest to best player in the world we've got right now with Lindsay a close second.

I've heard commentators come down hard on many players who they believe are wasting their talents. Martina Navratilova (early on), Hana Mandlikova, Andre Agassi, Marcelo Rios, Jennifer Capriati, Lindsay Davenport (early on) all took alot of heat for various reasons. Like it or not, athletes are expected to give 100% to their sport. FOr the past couple of years, the sisters haven't done that. They can't have it both ways. If they expect to be praised when they succeed, they need to expect criticism when they fail.

Just a note that Wertheim on SI.com last week posted a note saying Capriati is practicing again. The girl needs matches this fall if she wants a successful '06. It's simple as that. (By the way, Fire Mike Tice Now, I agree with you. Our Vikings blow bad!)

Good point but I still think some of the criticism is biased at times with Tracy Austin, Mary Carillo, and Chris Evert being the main 3 culprits and Mary Jo Fernandez, Patrick McEnroe, and Pam Shriver not being far behind. John McEnroe has gotten better and Cliff Drysdale has always been the most neutral commentator in my eyes.

[ October 03, 2005, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: ltskinmdterp ]

To be completely accurate, Lindsay only has 3 Slams, 1998 U.S. Open, 1999 Wimbledon and 2000 Australian Open. I won't go into detail of what she should have won the last 2 years, oh Hell, why not? U.S. Open 2004, Australian Open and Wimbledon 2005. Shoulda, woulda, coulda!

LOL oh thats right. Why did I give Lindsay another slam? Maybe its cuz by now I figure the old broad should have won at least one more. Thats just a sad state of affairs. She should have at least 6.

Call me crazy, but I think her 3 are about right. Though I admire Lindsay for her all around good demeanor--she seems like someone I wouldn't mind hanging out with--she is slower than many of the other women on the tour, and she isn't the best at coming from behind to gut out matches (like Serena, Capriati, and Clijsters in their primes).

I see Lindsay a lot like Hingis (and Capriati, for that matter)--talented players who were able to capitalize on the gap between the generation of Graf/Seles/Novotna/Sanchez Vicario and the current group--the Williamses/the Belgians/the Russians. Lindsay was able to extend her time by improving her fitness, but sadly she's nearing her expiration date. frown

[ October 03, 2005, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: Neptune ]

If everything had gone according to plan, I know "coulda, shoulda, woulda", Monica would have dominated a while longer, then Jennifer would have dominated for a few years, Arantxa would never have ascended to Number 1 and Lindsay would have come into her own, assuming she had gotten fit earlier and she and Hingis would have come up around the same time, instead of just Hingis dominating during those years.

I agree with that statement about Hingis, definitely

An important factor in that 'coulda woulda shoulda' scenario is that no one stabbed Aranxta, Jennifer or Lindsey.

Those articles about the Williams are hardly balanced in their views. They're completely pro Williams. That's pro-sports and the media for you. Since all the major commentators seem to be at fault perhaps there's some kind of conspiracy...

Or perhaps like you said...some people hear what they want to hear.

As for Lindsay and Maria CHOKING at the Australian Open...interesting how they choke instead of Serena WINNING it. Maria had 3 matches points and went to Serena's forehand, hoping to draw the error but DIDN'T. Bye Maria! Lindsay storms through the first set and then wilts in the second set when she missed an easy put away shot at 40-love, loses the next 4 points to lose her serve and gets steamrolled in the third set. Bye Lindsay! For Lindsay's case..she had entered the doubles with Morariu and gotten to the finals and simply was exhausted but she should've closed Serena in 2. For Sharapova, she should've closed Serena in 2 but the fighter Serena is...she wasn't havin it. Interesting how sometimes its a player that chokes instead of another player stepping it up and taking the match.

Sharapova got humbled this year. People expected her to just take the tour by storm in 2005 and it didn't happen. Another #1 with no slam and the only top 10 player she's beaten since April is Nadia "headcase" Petrova.

I can't wait for Kim Clijsters to take #1 and dominate 2006!

[ October 03, 2005, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: ltskinmdterp ]

Well, the stabbing was actually caught on film...

Perhaps it would be helpful for me to qualify my statements: Serena has won many big matches before hands down. And brilliantly played without anyone choking. But, this past Aussie Open was in LD's hands and she choked. Yes, Serena pulled it out but LD choked, plain and simple. That's my opinion and I hold to it. It's happened before and it'll happen again. In context, I think Serena got a little lucky just as other champions have before...

I think Kim will do great in Australia though I'm not sure about the clay yet. It'd be nice to see her conquer JHH on clay, her real nemesis in GS finals. I think she can now.

[ October 03, 2005, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: Bryan ]

Seems to me statements like this are the exact same things you are railing against with your posts in this thread. You can't be pissed that commentators criticize the Williams' and then go out and do the same thing to Lindsay. You think Lindsay should have more Slams and the commentators think Serena and Venus should have more.


And interesting how when Serena loses to anyone other than Venus, it's because she LOST it instead of her opponent winning it. Whenever she loses, it's because she played like crap, at least according to her.

[quote]FireMikeTiceNow:
[/quote]And interesting how when Serena loses to anyone other than Venus, it's because she LOST it instead of her opponent winning it. Whenever she loses, it's because she played like crap, at least according to her. [/QB][/QUOTE]

This is what my problem is with the Williams sisters, and Serena particularly. Venus has become a bit more contrite over the past several years. And whether they admit it or not, outside interests have interferred with their abilities to stay at the very top of the game. I don't begrudge either of them if they want to have extensive interests outside tennis. But it is insulting when Serena keeps saying she's the best in tennis...she's not, not by a long shot. She is capable of winning any tournment she enters, as is Venus, Lindsay, Justine, and Kim. That doesn't make any of them the best in tennis (except maybe Kim...right now anyway). You can't get pissed whent the media and critics call you on lame excuses for poor performance or "I'm the best I just didn't play well".

What about I'm out of shape and I just take my early round opponents for granted?

It's called the "it's never about anyone other me" defense. It's called not respecting others while demanding respect for yourself...Of course, the sisters have earned a great deal of respect and attention for their efforts and for their achievements...but there comes a time when mutual respect has to be considered..i think this is the major part of what bugs about the girls...we luv their games, that's not in question...

Just"lying" eerrrr...Justine Henin Hardenne got her butt handed to her by Flavia Pennetta in Filderstadt today at the Porsche Grand Prix. Pennetta won 6-4, 6-3. Pennetta was up 5-0 in the second set but Justine got it to 5-3, 30-30 before Penetta broke again to win the match. I was gonna have to fly there and beat her if she had let Justine come back. I don't think it was smart for Justine to come back at a fast indoor hardcourt tournament.

Her serve is still piss poor and Flavia ate it up. I honestly wonder if she'll ever win another Tier 1 hard court event. Its obvious her herpes virus will prevent her from ever having the kind of career people were thinking she'd have just a couple years ago. I think her best chances will be on clay which means she'll have to play a full clay schedule. Since the "virus" can come back and she can't play too much I don't think she'll ever win Wimbledon cuz she'll never get enough rest between the French and Wimbledon.

Congrats Flavia...maybe Moya will give Nadal a rest for a night and break you off a piece for your win.

Are you kidding me with this? Of course she will win another Tier 1, and probably another Slam or two. What exactly are you insinuating with putting "virus" in quotes? Do you question the validity or her illness? When did she get herpes? Don't remember hearing that either.

Funny how this is the exact same kind of thing you rail against when it happens to the Williams sisters.

Just sayin'.

Well I never said she wouldn't win another tier 1 hard court title...I said I wonder if she will, leaving the possibility that she still can. Maybe I'm being a bit dramatic but outside of clay I see her turning into what Hingis did toward the end of her career; making it to the quarters and semis or even finals only to get whipped by one of the top players. And in case you didn't know...CMV is in the herpes virus family last time I checked. If I'm wrong than someone please correct me but thats what I read.

And as for the Williams sisters...what kind of thing was I railing against that has anything to do with Justine? I admit I can't stand Justine so perhaps I get a little overzealous when discussing her. That "hand" incident at the 2003 French was just dirty. But I guess Justine can do no wrong.

[ October 05, 2005, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: ltskinmdterp ]

No...Justine can do wrong, as can my favorite player Lindsay, as can any person, anywhere. That hand incident, was sketchy, at best for sure. I liked her a hell-of-alot-more before that incident than I did after. I do think she has an incredible game and has worked extremely hard to maximize her talent.

I read your comment to insinuate that JHH's injury was not sincere or real, which, if I'm not mistaken, you have taken others to task for when they have made similar comments about Venus or Serena. My bad, if I misunderstood.

I am suprised Flavia beat her so soundly...I'll tell you that.