Just heard that Tom Glavine has come to terms with the Mets for a three year deal, with an option for the fourth year. It will be extremely strange to see him in something other than a Braves uniform. And, by staying within that division, his signing hurts the Braves.


~Adam

Wow, even though the Mets were "in the running" I figured Glavine would end up in Philly after Bell and Thome signed there....it looks like the NL East (with the exception of the dreadful Marlins, thanks to Luria) may be the most competitive division in all of baseball next year....well, anything that ends the Braves far-too-lengthy dominance in the NL is fine with me!

[ December 05, 2002: Message edited by: gamecock ]

I think the Mets are the worst of the three teams. If Glavine is on the downside of his career, if he's on a decent team he can still put up some decent numbers. The Mets aren't good at all. Unless he pitches really well, he's going to be a bust for them. And though his numbers last year were good (18-11, 2.96 ERA) from watching some of the games he pitched I just got the nagging feeling that he's not as impressive as he used to be. Had the Phils signed him, I would've been happy with 2 decent years. Now they'll go after Jamie Moyer, who might be better in the long run.

I heard Jason Stark being asked why he thought Glavine might favor NYC over Philly if the numbers were equal. He said it probably just came down to Glavine getting more exposure in NYC.

As a Mets fan, I'm not so sure I like this signing. It's pretty obvious the Braves think Glavine's best days are behind him - and they may be right. Could Steve Phillips have been duped - again? I hope that the time next year, the Mets aren't looking to dump the salary of an overpaid, aging pitcher.

[quote]Originally posted by Joe in Philly:
Now they'll go after Jamie Moyer, who might be better in the long run.[/QB]

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I agree with you 100% Joe....as far as available pitchers are concerned I believe both Jamie Moyer and Paul Byrd (ex-Phillie) will put up more impressive numbers than Glavine in 2003 (especially given the exorbitant salary demands that Glavine was requesting -- and GOT)....Moyer has been written off by "experts" every year for seemingly over a decade and despite his age he continues to put up consistently strong numbers and shows no sign of decline....the Orioles, Red Sox, Rangers, and Cubs ALL gave up Jamie for virtually nothing only to see him flourish in Seattle....it's simply a matter of the fact that Moyer doesn't throw 95+ mph fastballs and too many scouts and front office execs place far too much emphasis upon velocity than they do upon finesse, experience, guile and heart, not to mention past performance.

In the case of Byrd, if he pitched for a contending team last year and received even miniscule run support he would have been in the running for the Cy Young....I know the Phils got rid of him a year to two ago following his surgery (a decision that they undoubtedly regret now) but Byrd and Moyer would both be of greater benefit to the Phils staff than Glavine would -- and for a lot less money, too.

As JerseyGuy alluded to, the Mets signing of Glavine by Steve Phillips (the worst GM in the game hands down) may very well blow up in his face -- not unlike his recent acquisitions of Vaughn, Burnitz, Cedeno, and even Alomar....the only silver lining as far as Mets fans are concerned would be if this signing results in Phillips' long overdue firing by Wilpon....Art Howe is an excellent manager but even he is only as good as the talent he is given to work with -- especially if he is given a team comprised of over-the-hill, overpaid, complacent veterans who are just hanging on for a huge paycheck in lieu of retirement....this represents a vastly different scenario than the roster full of young, hungry, underpaid future stars who were looking to put up strong numbers for their first big contract (or arbitration) that Art had to work with in Oakland....not to mention that the only similarities between Phillips and Billy Beane in terms of track record, expertise and job performance is the fact that they both happen to hold the same title.

As far as the NL East is concerned, Joe, if Montreal doesn't trade Vazquez, Colon, Armas, or Vidro as has been recently rumored in a "salary dump" look for the Expos to contend for the NL East title next season as well....they also have one of the best managers in the game in Frank Robinson, as he exhibited last season....might the once mighty Braves be relegated to 3rd or 4th place in 2003?....we can only hope!

[ December 05, 2002: Message edited by: gamecock ]

Given Glavine's age (37 on opening day 2003) - and given the fact that he needs a really good defense behind him to pitch effectively (he's not a fireballer) - this signing will be as effective as last season's acquisition of Mo Vaughn.

Had Glavine gone to Philadelphia, with its quality defense, Glavine might have squeezed out another solid season or two (but not three at this age), but he'll be tits-on-a-bore useless in Shea. Especially if the Mets let Edgardo Alfonso walk.

The Braves are a very smart organization when it comes to pitching and they didn't seem worried about the prospect of Glavine pitching in the NL East. Keep the champagne corked, Met fans.

How the hell Steve Philips still has a job should be a segment on Unsolved Mysteries. I love Glavine. Seems like one of the good guys and I wish him well. But this is just another example of Stevie Boy acquiring a guy too late to do the Mets any good.

Steve Phillips may be the biggest problem the Mets have. The Burnitz, Vaughn and Cedeno deals were a complete disaster. His relationship with Valentine has been well documented (making unilateral decisions without the manager's input, spending too much time in the clubhouse, etc). I've also read that Phillips pushed hard to the front office to hire Art Howe because he can pretty much control him. We'll see. If Vaughn, Burnitz, Alomar and now Glavine get off to slow starts again this year, Phillips may be gone by Memorial Day.

If the Phillies do go after Jamie Moyer I hope it's only for a year or two as I wouldn't want them to overspend on a long term contract.

On another note, if the Expos change their mind and decide to trade away pitching I would love to see the Phillies go after Colon. I know the Yankees have been salivating over a trade for him for quite some time.

Boys, I've seen Glavine pitch a lot this season and I can tell you his best days are way, way behind him. Sure his ERA is below 3.00, but he did not pitch a lot of strikes. This is a guy who gets tagged a lot and as stated earlier, without a good defense or run support, his numbers are going to crash. Need I remind you of his late season slide and postseason burn against the Giants. The Mets are a bunch of idiots. They get Glavine who the Braves basically let walk away, and they lose Hampton in his prime to Colorado and now the Braves have him. With a strong bullpen and a healthy Sheffield, there is no need to worry about the Braves not finishing 1st in the NL East again.

Z

[quote]Originally posted by Zman:
With a strong bullpen and a healthy Sheffield, there is no need to worry about the Braves not finishing 1st in the NL East again.

Z[/QB]

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Wow, that's very optimistic and some mighty strong words there, ZMan....I know they've won 11 straight division titles (and only ONE World Championship -- sorry, Z, couldn't resist )....maybe we might have to make a "friendly wager" before Opening Day on April 4th....with the 10 inches of snow here in DC today and single digit wind chill temps, the spring and baseball season can't get here soon enough -- even though it is four months away.

The lukewarm negotiation with Glavine by the Braves should serve as fair warning to any potential buyers.

God bless Tommy. He was a fantastic pitcher in his prime. But anyone that has watched him pitch over the last decade can easily see that he is in decline.

He's totally capable of winning 16-18 games with the Mets in 2003. The problem will be on the backend (if the Mets make postseason). Please see Glavine's playoff record as Exhibit A.

I am beginning to see something wicked afoot in the Braves organization. I smell "re-tooling," and those of a respectable age might get sucked up into that giant bug zapper in "Logan's Run." Bonus points to anyone that understands that last obtuse reference.

I'm sorry since when is 11 straight division titles and a World Series championship something to hang your head down about? Do you think Barry Bonds, Don Mattingly or Tony Gynn would feel bad if that was on their resume? Do you think the late Ted Williams would be ashamed to say he only won 11 straight division titles and 1 World Series ring? Too often we focus on what this teams didn't do and not enough on what has been accomplished.
And as far as the pitching rotation, I think we will see Hampton has a lot of good years left in him. Something we can't say about Glavine or Maddux for that matter.

[quote]Originally posted by Zman:
[QB]I'm sorry since when is 11 straight division titles and a World Series championship something to hang your head down about? [QUOTE]

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I certainly wasn't implying that the 11 straight division titles was "something to hang your head down about", ZMan....quite the contrary -- that's an all-time MLB record and the Braves organization should be commended for a decade of regular season dominance....the only two issues I have are: (1) with the talent they have had and considering the number of trips to the postseason they have made, most teams would have more World Championship banners to their credit, that's all....remember my local team is the O's and as pitiful as they have been for the past four years (thanks to Peter Angelos) we would be ecstatic with ONE postseason appearance so if anything most baseball fans are envious of the Braves record of success, as least during the regular season anyway; and (2) the complacency exhibited by many of the Atlanta sports fans -- they have reacted at times as if they EXPECT the Braves to automatically make it to the Fall Classic and have not been nearly as supportive or enthusiastic as they were during the team's early years of dominance (as was apparent in the divisional series and NLCS games at Turner Field that have failed to sell out during the past couple of postseasons).

In either event, I think the Braves string of division titles is likely to come to an end in 2003 -- but only time will tell....and that takes nothing away from their regular season success over the past 11 years, which may NEVER be duplicated.

[ December 05, 2002: Message edited by: gamecock ]

I share the trepidation of other gunshy Mets fans... there just isn't enough precedent for even a Hall of Fame-caliber pitcher to be worth this contract through age 39, as Rob Neyer details here.

Glavine's splits for 2002 show that he was dreadful in July, crappyish in September and terrific otherwise. So we'll see; I still think Hampton is an iffier proposition for 2003.

[quote]Originally posted by gamecock:
As far as the NL East is concerned, Joe, if Montreal doesn't trade Vazquez, Colon, Armas, or Vidro as has been recently rumored in a "salary dump" look for the Expos to contend for the NL East title next season as well....

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I read in some articles this morning that the Expos have already determined (or been told by MLB, more likely) that they have to cut payroll. I'd love to see the Phils put a package together for Colon or Vazquez.

Edited to add link to story about Expos' payroll

[ December 06, 2002: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]

[quote]Originally posted by Joe in Philly:
I read in some articles this morning that the Expos have already determined (or been told by MLB, more likely) that they have to cut payroll. [QUOTE]

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Evil Bud Selig is up to no good again ....has the man ever done EVEN ONE THING that was good for the game....geez, I can't imagine why he wouldn't return their calls as the columnist confirmed.

Hey, I know all you guys are lusting after the Expos' players, but the latest from MLB is that the Player's Union today approved 22 "home" games to be played in Puerto Rico and, in so doing, MLB will receive some influx of money to maintain (or even increase) the Expos' current payroll, and that they're only looking to dump one player's bloated salary (oft-injured 3B Fernando Tatis - any takers?). That said, I'd be very surprised to see Vazquez, Vidro, Colon, et al., in any other than an Expos' uniform next year (but I'm not holding my breath, mind you). And speaking of Bartolo Colon, the Expos signed his younger brother Jose to a minor league contract last week.

As for Tom Glavine, I read this week that he's a huge hockey fan and that he was a good enough player to be drafted in the fourth round by the L.A. Kings in 1984, after being selected outstanding player in Massachusetts that same year. All of a sudden, I have Newfound Love and Respect for this guy! I guess I was prejudiced all these years by that evil "A" on his cap.

Colon and Guerrero are both going to be free agents so they have to trade them or lose them for nothing, and Vazquez is eligible for arbitration, where many players get huge pay raises. And my guess is they took the 22 San Juan games into account when figuring how much revenue they'd have.