This was a farce. They'll probably end up expanding the rosters even further, making it less and less of an honor. Players who don't want to show up, and not being able to pitch for more than an inning because there are too many closers? Between the voting for the starters, and the managers selecting their own players over more worthy players on other teams to fill out the rosters, and now this? And Matt Morris wanting to sit in the dugout but not pitch because he's still upset over Kile? Maybe it might honor his memory to PITCH in the game--did you ever think of that, Matt?

End this travesty. No more All-Star game. It's become a joke.

There shouldn't be overtimes (or extra innings) in All-Star games. The manager plays a pitcher for a certain amount of innings (or pitches) based on a nine inning game. Frankly, I'm surprised that this hasn't happened before.

Though not having an MVP makes no sense at all, especially since they named it for Ted Williams just this week.

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: PCC ]

Abolish it if the managers aren't going to treat it like a GAME, not a circus. You know why this didn't happen before? Even in the '70s, there was no priority given on getting *all* the players in. They're called "reserves" because you hold them in reserve! Any starting pitchers on the staff should go 2-3 innings each.

But then, 30 years ago the two leagues actively disliked each other, never met in-season, had separate umpiring crews, etc. No wonder Barry grabbed Torii playfully after he robbed him of a homer like it was a company picnic... There's no spark of real competition left.

At least we got to hear Beelzebud booed by his hometown fanbase... and see Johnny Damon's bare shoulders and a bit of chest hair on SportsCenter this morning.

[quote]Originally posted by PCC:
There shouldn't be overtimes (or extra innings) in All-Star games. The manager plays a pitcher for a certain amount of innings (or pitches) based on a nine inning game. Frankly, I'm surprised that this hasn't happened before.

Though not having an MVP makes no sense at all, especially since they named it for Ted Williams just this week.

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: PCC ]

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I ABSOLUTELY AGREE. I posted a similar reply on Ask the Ump, General Topics, if any one wants to read it.

Last night's game was an absolute farce. I have no problem with limiting the All-Star game to 9 innings. But that limit needs to be set before the game. You can't just make up rules as you go. And baseball isn't about ties under the current rules. You keep playing til you have a winner.

Also, expand the roster if you want. But I see no reason why a team can't go more than 11 innings with a roster of approximately 10 pitchers and 20 position players. The NL squad had 3 starters and 7 relievers on the team. Even at just 2 innings per starter and 1 per reliever, that's 13 innings. There's no rule that says every player on the team must play in the first 9 innings of the game. This isn't little league, folks, everyone on the roster shouldn't have to get in the game. As they say, just being invited to the game is an honor.

In the past, this game used to matter. People took bragging rights based on winning or losing. But the end of this game shows that baseball just doesn't care about the fans anymore. Screw you, all the fans who paid $175 for tickets. Same to all the fans who gave up 4 hours to watch the game on tv. We'll build ya up, get ya into the game, and pull the rug out from under you in the end.

But wouldn't it have been awesome if after the 11th inning, even just one player took the field for the 12th inning? Wouldn't that have said a ton to the fans... showed us that one of these millionaire players actually cared about what we feel/though? But once again, baseball lets us down...

By the way, is anyone else sick of mlb.com's shameless propoganda? By looking at their page today, no one would have even guessed that there was any controversy. The headlines state "Thriller in Miller is a draw", "Players support All-Star decision", and "All-Star managers stand by decision". Nowhere is there an article titled "Fans upset by tie" or "Crowd leaves Miller disappointed". From now on, I'm boycotting mlb.com and I hope others follow suit.

I didn't really have a problem with the game being called a draw, but I agree it probably is fairer to just let it be known beforehand that the game will only be a certain number of innings, be it nine or eleven or whatever. As for the questions about which players are chosen and which aren't, there's never going a perfect solution. One change I would implement is abolishing the rule that every team must have at least one player on the All-Star team. If there weren't undeserving players from last place teams on the roster, there would be room for deserving players who were skipped over.

It was a circus this year. The honor and respect of being an all star has all but disappeared. My favorite part was watching the fans boo Selig also. But I do understand about the pitchers needing to be ready to play. Like I said in another thread, just have them drop their pants to see who the winner is.
Get rid of the all star game? Absolutly not!! Keeps Javy in my bed for three whole days.

I have no problem with ending the game a tie (rather than have the final pitchers overextend themselves). I mean, it's not a REAL game. That most (or all) of the players get to play in the All Star Game is good. It's just a showcase, after all, a way for mlb to promote itself and its players. And I DO think that there should be a player from each team selected. I know I look forward to seeing my hometown player announced--and even better if he gets in the game (Roy Haladay--who gave up some hits that could have been outs before serving up the homer to Bonds).

I actually went to bed before the game was over (gotta get the beauty sleep, you know), but Torii Hunter's catch on the Bonds would-be homer and Jose Vidro's diving play to rob Ichiro of a base hit were both spectacular defensive plays. Those two plays alone made the game exciting for me.

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: canmark ]

[quote]Originally posted by WhiteSoxFan:
In the past, this game used to matter. People took bragging rights based on winning or losing.

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It's possible that I'm too young to remember those good old days (I'm 30), but I think you're overstating the importance of an All-Star game. Sure, everyone wants to win, and bragging rights are nice, but do you think Mariners fans want Freddy Garcia to miss his next start so the AL could win the All-Star game? I can name the teams in the last 20 World Series, but I have no clue which league won the All-Star game in that time. It's just an exhibition of (mostly) the best baseball players in the world, so I'm really surprised at the uproar. It was still a great game! I think a lot of fans are transposing their anger about contraction/possible strike/bad economy towards this game. At least my Psych 101 professor would say so.

About the $175.00 ticket price: In order to get an All-Star game ticket you also were forced to buy a ticket to the Futures Game (with minor leaguers), Home Run Derby AND Fan Fest. You couldn't just buy what you wanted and skip the rest to save money.

[quote]Originally posted by Munson Man:
One change I would implement is abolishing the rule that every team must have at least one player on the All-Star team. If there weren't undeserving players from last place teams on the roster, there would be room for deserving players who were skipped over.

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If you do this, you wouldn't need a roster of 30-plus. You could keep it closer to 25, or maybe 27 with a couple of extra pitchers. I'm not sure how I feel about this, though. In the old days, the telecast began with a short opening, then they introduced the players. I enjoyed it back then, and I liked waiting for the introduction of whichever Phillies made the team. Now, with all the overblown ceremonies, I never tune in until the game starts.

I think the whole thing has outlived its usefulness. It used to be interesting because you didn't see the other league very much. There was no interleague play, and you didn't have 4 or more games a week on ESPN, or "superstations" bringing some team's games every night. So if I, (being in a National League city) wanted to see AL teams, it was either the occasional Saturday game of the week, the All-Star game and the post-season.

With all the changes over the last 25 years, it's entirely lost its meaning. It's a glorified exhibition.

I missed the game. Did John Henry Williams (Ted's son) show up? If so, what kind of reception did he get?

And Torii Hunter's robbing of Barry Bonds was a thing of beauty!!! Caught it on SportsCenter. And the amazing thing is, Hunter makes these catches regularly.

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: George_vikingfan ]

[quote]Originally posted by George_vikingfan:
Did John Henry Williams (Ted's son) show up? If so, what kind of reception did he get?

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I read that his reception was cold, frigid ... one might say frozen ...

Ted Williams is spinning in his canister.

(Sorry, stole that from the ESPN The Magazine website)

John Henry and one of Williams's daughters were supposed to participate in the unveiling of a tribute to Williams in leftfield. However, they both pulled out because they didn't want to have to answer questions from the media. Instead, MLB had the Red Sox All-Stars unveil the tribute. The children were also supposed to sit in Selig's box with him (sounds more like a punishment if you ask me), but apparently MLB quietly asked them not to come since they felt it would distract attention from the game, and that John Henry would get such a negative fan reaction that it would be embarrasing.

Perhaps they could have had Sammy Sosa and Jason Giambi compete in a "Home Run-Off" to determine the winner, like a World Cup Shoot Out!

(Edited to let you know I posted this before i read today's Tops and Bottoms. Don't want to be accused of stealing someone else's brilliant idea! )

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: George_vikingfan ]

not that im really very old but i remember when i was like 8, i used to listen to the allstar game in bed with radio under my pillow becaus emy mom mad eme go to bed. I would be so excited when then american league one, like it really mattered then. I still watch it because I am competitive about it, and i think some players really want to win, but it has gotten to be more of a friendly game. The pt of the game is to win it I think. This F n game needs more dudes like Pete Rose bowling over a catcher in an allstar game. That to me is what a real player is. last nights cancellation after 11 was total BS. If i was a fan there id be pissed also. And for Torre ( an im a huge torre/yank fan) to say the fans should be happy they saw this much. well F--- That. Stopp coddling the players. So they may get hurt. thats part of the game. if you are not going to play the game rt dont freakin play it. yeah im pissed.............

Note to self: Next Selig birthday, send ugly tie. And a frilly pink slip.

The man has removed every ounce of integrity left in this once great game. The very essence of a baseball game is that it does NOT end in a tie. A simple Weiner Race could easily have decided the victor. Once again, Selig's decision leaves everyone happy, except the millions of fans.

And I guess the Ted Williams MVP Award will have to be cryogenically frozen til next year. Medically speaking, does a body even need to be cold before it rolls in its grave?

[quote]Originally posted by Seph:
Medically speaking, does a body even need to be cold before it rolls in its grave?

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No. But Ted would actually have to be in a grave.

I have no problem with the tie. The All Star Game is an exhibition. But ... I think they should've given one inning's notice ... not one batter.

Still, it was nice to see Ugly Bud booed so enthusiastically ... and in his own town too. Somehow, doesn't that make it all worthwhile?

The Game, of course, was fodder for the late night comedians:

Letterman: "Congratulations to George W. Bush. Last night the Supreme Court declared him the winner of last night's all-star game. ... It got so desperate, they were running out of players, that in the 10th inning the American League started to defrost Ted Williams.

Leno: The All-Star game was called last night in the 11th inning because both teams ran out of pitchers. Actually, the game was called because most drug stores close at eleven and both teams were out of steroids. ... You know, the teams went through 60 athletes in one night. You know, that hasn't been done since Madonna's last tour. ...

Conan: "Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig decided to end the All-Star game in a tie because both teams ran out of players. After the game, the players said 'We didn't stop the game because we ran out of pitchers. We stopped the game because we ran out of steroids'. ...

... and for all you Selig bashers out there ...
Letterman's Top Ten Little-Known Facts about Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig
10. Only guy in Milwaukee who's never had a beer.
9. Just told Martha Stewart to unload her Montreal Expos stock.
8. Went to Las Vegas a couple days ago and put 10 grand on "tie."
7. Eats rosin bags like they're peanuts.
6. Won't stop sending flowers to Mike Piazza.
5. Has actually sat through a Tampa Bay Devil Rays game.
4. His nude seventh inning stretches were sort of funny the first couple of times.
3. Refuses to recognize Ted Williams as top cryogenically-frozen ball player of all time.
2. Wife keeps complaining about "contraction," if you know what I mean.
1. Throws like a girl.

Exhibit 127,653 why Letterman is just so much funnier than Leno! When I heard that line about defrosting Ted Williams, I hurt from laughing! And #'s 9,6,4,3 and 2 on the top ten are a great lines!!!

Boy, here's a pretty righteous rant from Tom Verducci.....

The Milwaukee Embarrassment

Awesome article, but I don't think managers will be able to force players to play longer. The players don't give a damn. Players refusing to show up unless their entourages are allowed on the field? Pathetic.

The only way the All-Star game can be salvaged is if the players' union is absolutely, positively, beyond any shadow of a doubt, broken and beaten by the owners. For that to happen would probably take a strike of a couple of years, and if that were to happen no one will give a damn when they come back anyway.