Saw this today in Jock Talk. I could only imagine the consequences if he had said "greedy semitic owners". And don't even think about insulting black or asian players.

I suppose gays are still fair play if you're careful.

We have different bars for racism in this country. Wonder how low this one will be.

There's been quite an uproar about this out in SF, I think. Also, this Krueger guy said Alou's brain had turned to "Cream of Wheat," which wittingly or not led some people to wonder if this was also referring to "Rastus," the dark-skinned, white-haired figure who appeared for years on Cream of Wheat boxes. I think this aspect of the story might be reaching a bit (Krueger may only subliminally have thought of that), but I do think the ethnic, region and racial slights are combined in the "Caribbean" slap, since most Latinos from that region have some to a lot of African ancestry.

Alou has acknowledged facing overt racism as a brown-skinned (Black) Latino during his career, especially in the South, so these comments probably enraged him in a way that the younger Latinos, who no longer have to worry about the color bar (since Jackie Robinson) might not fully understand.

[ August 07, 2005, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

While stupid and very unamusing, hasn't Howard Stern said crap like this a million times? Where's the novelty?

The 'cream of wheat' remark just seems a jibe on Alou being old and (now) an underwhelming manager, both hard to dispute.

Yes, this is just the kind of thing that most San Franciscans slobber over. But just how is this different from the serial slurs we see here referring to President Bush as "the chimp?"

The novelty is that Howard Stern has never been a reporter covering a team, much less working for the official station of the team. And in fact, while Howard Stern is a loathsome person and broadcaster, when he makes comments like that, it's usually making fun of people with racist ideas, not making fun of black people, or Hispanic people, or any minority. This guy was using an ethnic slur to explain why a baseball team was doing poorly, intimating that the culture of the Carribean is incapable of generating quality ballplayers, or at least that anyone from the Carribean would have to overcome that before being able to play at the major league level.

Again, reporting on a story, even an opinion piece, has different standards than casual conversation.

However, the difference is that calling Bush "the chimp" is not a reflection of his ethnicity or his heritage. It's a comment on his perceived intelligence and a general disdain for his politics.

Frankly, I've never been impressed with those who use epithets like this in political discourse. You lose credibility and gravitas when you can't come up with concrete criticisms and resort to schoolyard name calling. I'm not saying that calling Bush a chimp is acceptable, but I'm also not saying it rises to the level of "brain-dead Caribbean hitters hacking at slop nightly.''

On the other hand, I think Alou is over reacting as well. The guy did something stupid. This a wonderful opportunity to be the bigger man and accept any apology offered. Anything else just makes Alou look petulant.

leave it to a Republican to defend racism

And count on a San Franciscan to see it where it doesn't exist.

As a Latino from a Caribbean country, I think the remarks are ignorant - about baseball, and about social issues - but I'm just not offended. It's hard to take umbrage at stupidity - save it for malicious hatred. And I agree about Felipe Alou; he'd come off much better if he simply bemoaned the guy's idiocy, forgave him, and was the bigger man.

I agree Alou does come off a bit like Palmieri -denying once again that he's never done steroids and doing it sounding like he's in a 'roid rage.

But I would not belittle what Krueger said, nor do I think he intended any less than the jealous demeaning of the success of all Latino players.

Isn't it enough that that success is due in large part to the lack of opportunities elsewhere? Krueger's comments were small-minded.

Seriously, are you for real? Jqueer responded, but I have to ask, are you seriously equating criticism of ONE white person with the long, virulently demeaning stereotypes of Black people, which were so institutionalized they appeared on commercial products? When were White Anglo Saxon Protestants like George W. Bush compared to simians on a regular basis, and put on cereal boxes? (And it demeans other members of the primate family to be compared to him, to tell the truth. They don't send members of their species off to be killed based on loony fantasies and projects, as any zoologist would tell you.)

My more basic question is, why did Krueger single out only the "Caribbean" players? Does San Francisco, absent Barry Bonds, have no white players who are swinging like T-ball novices, or all the white people who are starting hitting like Albert Pujols (a Caribbean native), Andruw Jones (a Caribbean native), or Vladimir Guerrero (a Caribbean native). Just wondering.

[ August 08, 2005, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

FT, your sophist riposte perfectly illustrates the point of my two posts: the announcer made ignorant remarks that should have been ignored instead of being seized upon to advance every argument against that amorphous thing called "racism," whether imagined or real. As I've said before, get over it and stop perpetuating not just the "racist" stereotypes themselves but the stereotype of the thin-skinned opponent of "racism."

It's too much of a stretch to compare a radio announcer with a public audience to a couple of uncreative intenet geeks. I am far from PC but this guy made this statement demeaning an entire race of people on the airwaves. I think that calling Bush Chimp is just stupid (and far more "brainless" than this announcer thinks the Caribbeans are), but to me it shows the lack of class and brain power of those who do it. A guy with a public forum who views his own team and manager as "brain dead Carribeans" deserves to be punished. While I like an announcer who isn't going to toe the company line and simply lick the the home team's butts, he should have left out the Caribbean bit. Plus this guy is getting paid to do a job and the comapny paying him has every right to moderate his behavior. What some people post about Bush online is not nearly equatable.

And why are these guys so brave behind the mike? How about growing a pair and going into the lockerroom and making these statements? (I might actually have a bit more respect for him for at least putting his racism where his mouth is.) I'll bet the Giant bats would suddenly be able to find their targets.

Update: KNBR's Kreuger has been fired, along with the Program Director (!) and someone from the morning show.

Felipe Alou, who refuses to let it go, was on ESPN's "Outside the Lines" and called Kreuger "the messenger of Satan" (I swear I'm not making that up). So the next day the KNBR morning show quite understandably made fun of such a ripe-for-satire remark. (C'mon, if Jon Stewart did it, everyone would think it was hilarious). It was then that the firings came down.

Anyone who lives in SF and actually listens to Kreuger knows that the offending remarks were way out of character for him. There are dozens (hundreds?)of idiot radio hosts (sports and non-sports) in this country who say far worse things on a daily basis. Kreuger is about as far from that type of host as you can get and still work in radio. What he said was undeniably stupid -- but stupid in a heat-of-the-moment-rant sort of way. Clearly the Giants are the tail wagging the KNBR dog here.

Is KNBR the local station that carries the Giants' games? If so, then the firings (at least of the guy who made the statement) are warranted. If not, then he should not have been fired.

yes, KNBR is the flagship station of the Giants.

So do we have a bit of a double standard here: Hall of Famer Bob Feller made some comments during a radio interview:

"The Caribbean players don't know the rules of the game"

Now this wasn't said in any work capacity and he is 86 years old, so maybe there is some sort of senility/Altzheimer's setting in or maybe he gets a pass because he is a Hall of Famer, but I haven't heard anybody say anything about his comments. But I do wonder how widespread these feelings are throughout baseball?

[ August 11, 2005, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: George_Twinsfan ]

The point that seems lost in all of this is, what if Krueger had simply said, "the Giants have brain dead hitters hacking at slop night after night"? That's a damnation of the entire lineup wearing the San Francisco brown and orange, not a specific ethnic group. Krueger's punishment was well-deserved.

As for the "Cream of Wheat" comment, I took that to mean that Felipe Alou's mind was in decline as a manager. I don't think of that in racial terms, just an indication he thinks Alou's skills have gone into decline.

In response to BillW, Alou hasn't exactly been given much to work with in San Francisco the last couple of years, even with Barry "Jerk of All Time" Bonds in the lineup. That's like saying Alou was underwhelming in Montreal when they were so cash-poor they lost every star their farm system could come up with.

Frankly, I couldn't care less if it was out of character for Krueger or what. He said something racist on air. He should pay the price. He's a big boy. He needs to start accepting responsibility for his words and his actions.

destiny - your post summed up everything about this issue very well - couldn't agree with you more...
larry krueger (not a bad radio commentator) made a serious mistake and he was punished - it's about time the "noise" on sports radio is toned down krueger's comments would be offensive anywhere - it's not particular to san francisco as alluded to in previous posts.

Update: Larry Krueger has a new job!