Who do you pick to win the two NLDS matchups?

The Braves have a lot going for them- I expect to see them in the World Series and actually win it. People haven't paid attention to them since they've been so good from the start with no real dips along the way and because they're the Braves and people expect them to fold again even if they are good- I say not this time. I'm not at all a Braves fan, though Javy is quite cute. Would love to see a Cubs -Red Sox Series- not too far fetched, but not likely. Watch the deserving Marlins' fans win it all again!

The Cubs and Braves make a great matchup. The Cubs have really outstanding starters and a proven offensive machine; the Braves are very consistent in terms of batting and have good starting pitching with an ace reliever, though I'd give the edge to the quintet of Prior, Wood, Clement, Zambrano, and Estes over Maddux, Ortiz, Hampton, Ramirez, and Reynolds.

Although the Marlins showed incredible heart this year by beating out the Phillies and getting into the playoffs, they're overmatched by an outstanding Giants team. SF has the edge in starting pitching, batting, relievers, and of course, they have the value-added weapon of Barry Bonds.

Except that the Braves are going with a 3-man rotation. Maddux is 2-0 against the Cubs this year, Hampton 1-0, and Ortiz never faced them in 2003. Meanwhile, Prior and Zambrano are combined 0-2 versus the Braves this year. Wood has no record, but I believe he didn't start any games against the Braves this year.

Its easy for folks to "pooh pooh" the Braves based on past postseason collapses. Just consider the conflict in such opinions when you're talking about the Cubs. I don't think I need to lay out the entire history of their organization. Simply consider the fact that we are talking about the Cubs, afterall. And they have fared poorly against Atlanta for a long, long time.

As far as Chicago's hitters, all you need do is pitch around Sosa. The rest of that lineup scares no one.

Personally, I see the SF-Fish series as far more interesting. If Florida wins ONE game in SF to start, this series will become scary. I think the Giants could very well win both before heading to Miami, but if FLA wins one game in SF, then this series can go 5 games. IMHO, I see SF winning 3 games to 1.

While I give either underdog a decent chance to win their series, I do NOT want to see a lucky team become the NL champion, and then -- in the event Satan's Team becomes the AL champ -- lose their Cinderella outfit, panties and all, during the World Series like the '98 Padres.

One of the more intriguing WS matchups would be the Cubs and Oakland -- all those young arms, especially if Mulder can pitch by then.

Go Braves!

Were you talking about the Athletics, Red Sox, or Twins?

I think a Giants/A's WS would be much more exciting (without an earthquake, of course!) especially for us fans in the SF Bay Area. Who wouldn't want to see Bonds battling Hudson, Zito, and possibly Mulder? (it'd be an awesome match-up, but great pitching always stops great hitting!)

[ September 30, 2003, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Mike T. ]

What a pitchers duel! The Giants & Marlins combined for only 6 hits combined. Great performance by Jason Schmidt.

Wood v. Ortiz promises to be another pitchers duel, but we'll see...

Anybody, I don't care who, except the Braves. My worst nightmare: a Yanks v. Braves WS. I'd rather watch paint dry.

Er, go Cubs!

Is tonight's game being played in Chicago??? wink Obviously Cubs fans bought up all those tickets that Atlanta people ignore in the first round of the postseason.

In a short series like this pitching can make all the difference. I think the Cubs have the advantage over the Braves here, barring multiple bad games by the Cubs staff.

*Tee hee* Braves lost *tee hee*

Tee hee..its one game...tee hee. And what are the Dodgers up to right now?

For f**ks sake AU Tiger, do we have to go through this bullshit again? I'M NOT A f**kING DODGERS FAN. Get it through your thick, sun-addled skull. I. am. not. a. Dodgers. fan. I'm an Angels fan. Again, the Angels. Who have won just as many WS as the boring, choking dog won-all-those-division-title-and-didn't-do-shit Atlanta Braves.

Jesus.

[ October 01, 2003, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

Cf. John Candy in "Uncle Buck:" "Ever hear of a chainsaw massacre?"

But I WAS glad to see the Cubs win, if not an actual "CUBS WIN!" flash across my screen. :cool:

Hmmm...Fish make it interesting by winning today. What's the attendance going to be like in Miami?

Can someone please tell me how the Braves won so many games this year? Did they play the Tigers all the time or what?

Atlanta doesn't impress me at all. They're lazy, their defense sucks, and their offense is nowhere near where the hype says it should be. It's not just the Cubs pitching, either, that has caused the Braves to be so impotent.

If you ask me, the Braves amount to nothing more than a first-round postseason team, and that's it.

5-3. Glad to see JA is the same old venomous crank that he's always been.

Thank you. Coming from you, that's a compliment. I bet you'll never make the mistake of calling me a Dodger fan again.

Cubs got the split they needed, at least. On to Wrigley.

[ October 01, 2003, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

Where 38,000 snobbish, unemployed, ignorant homos will turn out in drunken droves having NO idea whatsoever is going on.

38,000 drunken homos? Christ! I need to get to Wrigley this weekend, LOL.

That's just what I was thinking, AU Tiger. That almost sounds like a dream to me, being surrounded by thousands of ignorant, drunken homo Cubs fans. Unlike, I suppose, all the intelligent, sober hetero Braves fans that filled the stadium in Atlanta. Well, except for the thousands of homos that turned out for games 1 & 2 rooting for the Cubs. (This has been my attempt at wondering what the hell 'homos' has to do with this baseball thread, since you seem to use it as a put-down, and I'm just trying to figure out why.)

I'm just looking forward to a well-played finale to the series, no matter who wins. In fact, both series should be good.

In case you didn't know, MIB is White Sox fan. He's not too fond of Cubs fans, if his numerous comments about them are any indication!

It figures some here would get their panties into a tizzy over my joke. Does anyone here possess a sense of humor anymore? Geez Louise!

Wrigley Field is in a highly gay area. Cubs fans are basically clueless when it comes to baseball. They'd show up at Wrigley in the middle of January if the lights were turned on. They don't go for the game; they could care less. They go because it's "something to do." (What I do not know.)

I'm putting my White Sox fan hat on and simply making a wisecrack about Cubs fans. Of course, making the homo comment would be funnier, I guess, if it was done in a straight forum. Cripes, my team collapsed and didn't make it to the postseason. Cut me some slack already.

[ October 02, 2003, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: MIB ]

Ah, but the Cubs were innovators then! Look at a place like the BOB in Phoenix; it's sold as a place to go hang out, not as a place to watch a baseball game. Or as they say in the real estate business that I'm in: it was an entertainment destination point. They make a big deal about all the amenities but, um, those are things that don't allow you to watch the game, unlike, say, SkyDome where people used to be able to f**k in the hotel rooms while watching the game! Disney/The Angels did the same thing when the renovated Ed opened up; their tagline was "Come to the ultimate playground". Erm, how about watching the game? I just want clean bathrooms, short concession lines and hot dogs that are actually, you know, HOT. Everything else is a distraction.

[ October 02, 2003, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

I guess I didn't realize your comment was a joke, MIB, and I probably took umbrage to the homos part because I thought you were serious, and because this isn't a predominantly straight forum, as you mentioned. If it was, I would never visit this message board, since it would be knee-deep in bullshit. I can tell you dislike the Cubs, and obviously everybody has the right to root for (or against) whatever team they want to. So I'll do my part to keep the discussions on here civil and on topic. Play ball!

A point to consider; Miami weather on Friday.
High 86 degrees, 40% chance of showers, humidity hovering in the 50-65% range. It'll feel like 90-93 degrees. Sweat will be dripping. Its the type of weather that drains players as the game progresses.

Why should one consider this? Since September 9th, the Giants have played all of three games outside the temperate climate of California (at Houston). A person's body (even an athlete) falls into the groove of the weather. Its natural.

The Fish are used to the muggy state of affairs in Miami. It'll be a jolt to the Giants.

Will it be a factor? Maybe. Could it be a factor? Absolutely. I think it'll be enough of a factor to give the Fish a split in Miami.

I detest their fans more than the team itself, though I AM enjoying their series against the Braves, of whom I am also not a big fan. The game on Tuesday w/ Wood pitching was outstanding and enjoyable. I hope Friday's match-up between Mr. Stud Mark Prior and his older nemesis Greg Maddux is equally as outstanding.

I hope Friday's game, and the rest of the series, is close and well-played, too. Unfortunately, I just got a job working nights, but they allow headphones, so I'll have to content myself with listening to Joe Girardi (or is it Luis Gonzalez) on ESPN radio. At least there will for sure be a game 4, so I'll get to watch that.

Don't we have a policy against cussing on this board? Where are the monitors anyway?

Does anyone know if Jim Allen is a Dodger fan? For the life of me, I can't tell. :cool:

I dunno -- I read his post too quickly and thought it said that Jim Allen had gotten lucky and was f**cking a Dodger fan. Way to go!

Back to the topic at hand: GO CUBS!

[ October 03, 2003, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: DCBucky ]

Maybe Jim Allen could answer this question. Why aren't your Dodgers in the playoffs? What changes should your Dodgers make next season to make them better? Should your Dodgers make a managerial change? Just wanted to get the opinion of a true blue Dodgers fan.

Like Bucky said, GO CUBS!!!

Are you people trying to make Jim Allen's head explode???

Leave him and his beloved Dodgers alone! wink

Like the old Coasters hit Charlie Brown:

Why's everybody always pickin' on me?

GVF, your cheap, tawdry and wholly uneffective attempt to bait me with claims of my Dodger fandom will not work. I spewed enough bile in AU Tigers direction to make clear my loyalities.

See, I was a HUGE A's fan in the early 70's. When I was 11, I saw them get bounced from the playoffs in '71 by the Orioles. Loved the A's: they had those weird uniforms, they had long hair, they couldn't stand each other, they probably did drugs etc. etc. To a hyper-rebellious 11 year old, that was heady stuff. Fast forward 3 years and the A's are in the middle of their championship run. They face the Dodgers in the Series: their polar opposites. Clean-cut, perfect, family-oriented etc., everything I loathed. So, I hated the Dodgers as only a 14 year old could. Mind you, I lusted after Steve Garvey something fierce, but still. The Dodgers were boring, personality-free, had the evil--I use that word in a non-ironic way--Lasorda managing them and frankly, they weren't all that good.

At the time, we were living in New Jersey, while my dad was stationed at McGuire AFB. We went to a Yankee game, we got 5th row behind the dugout, Nolan Ryan was pitching for the Angels and well, that was that: instant Angels fan. A decision I've regretted often, but still. We moved to Los Angeles shortly after that and thus my hatred of the Dodgers got an everyday experience slant to it. Despite all their success, I've never once been tempted to become a Dodger fan.

*COUGH* Sorry about that. What do the Dodgers need? Simple: In the long term, build up the farm system again. They're relying on free agents to plug major gaps and that works sometimes, oftentimes not. For next year? Get Vlad Gurrero.

Again, sorry about hijacking this thread. Erm, Go Cubs! Go Fish!

Well if cheap and tawdry are the worst things I'm called today, I'm having a Banner Day!!!

I know you're not a Dodgers fan, but it's just so much fun razzing you!

I described Prior to another list as having the body of Roger Clemens (though I think Prior's hips are bigger, not a big turn-on for me), with the arsenal of Pedro Martinez. And he's a cooler character that little blond hothead Kerry Wood, who did pitch dazzlingly in Game 1. I also like big Papi Carlos Zambrano--big, thick, café au lait brown--but he gets too excited at times. Dusty Baker seems to have a gift for keeping all of these talents--as well as Sammy Sosa, Aramis Ramirez, etc.--in harmony, which is why he was able to take Bonds and company to the Series in SF, and why he's gotten Chicago back to the playoffs. I don't like the Cubs, the idea of the Cubs, their ivy-covered back wall of a stadium where the fans yell outrageous obscenities at non-Cubs-fans and yet have the gall to claim that White Sox fans are less family-friendly (well, I guess they don't leap out of the stands every five minutes at Wrigley). But Baker is warming me to them, so I actually wouldn't mind...I can't believe I'm saying this as a Cardinals fan...mind them defeating Atlanta and then playing for the NLCS.

[ October 03, 2003, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

First, the Braves were in the same division as the Mets, which accounted for a huge number of wins. Their pitching actually was quite good, but they had one of the best batting averages of any team, and got homers from more than just a few guys. Usually they've coasted on excellent pitching, solid play and one talented HR hitter, but this year they actually had some of the hottest bats in the NL.

The Cubs, as you know, had exceptional pitching--I mean, any team that has a rotation of Prior, Wood, Zambrano and Clement is going to win some games--and timely hitting, though not as consistent as Atlanta. If Chicago's pitching can neutralize Atlanta's bats, the Cubs win hands down. Atlanta pitching is less likely to shut down the Cubs hitters, however; and Maddux at times this year has looked really bad. He has got to be precise against the likes of Sosa. Prior has more leeway and an indefatigable arm.

[ October 03, 2003, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

I know you know I'm not a Dodgers fan, it's just that I have to take the opportunity to Dodger-bash when they present themselves. Sort of like a conversational hanging slider, they are.

2-2 in the bottom of the 6th for the G'ints v. Fish. Answered my question about the crowd on MLB: over 60,000 at Pro Player.

[ October 03, 2003, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

Marlins won in the 11th, after the Giants took the lead. The rally started with a dropped fly ball. Quite sad if you're a Giants fan.

I switched to Cubs-Braves (I was switching back and forth to a hockey game) and there's a closeup of Mark Prior showing various pitching grips--his right hand holding the baseball right next to his right leg, and he's wearing shorts, so you saw the hair on his arm and right leg. His left hand, sadly, was in front of his crotch. I kept thinking, "Move your hand. Or scratch. Something."

[ October 03, 2003, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]

The Marlins are a good team again.. So is it now LESS embarrasing that Cleveland lost to them in the 97 series eek!

Cubs just won--PRIOR PITCHED HIS ASS OFF! He was throwing basically two pitches, a fastball that popped on the outside corner of the plate, and a swurve (slider-curve), that broke beautifully. And he kept Atlanta off stride all night. And even though he's a rookie, Dusty Baker showed confidence in him and let him pitch the ninth. Amazing.

9 innings, 2 hits, 1 ER, 4 BBs, and 7 Ks!

I think tonights game ball should be sent to Pittsburgh, thank you Ramirez, Lofton, and Simon who all have proven to be worthy acquisitions.

Prior did pitch a great game. What I couldn't believe was all the errors the Braves comitted. It's amazing how they won 100 games based mostly on offense. I hope the Cubs can win the next one. I want to see them in the next round of the NLCS hopefully against the Giants, although the Fish may sneak in with their clutch hitting and lack of pressure.

I agree that Prior pitched a hell of a game.

But the Braves better win tomorrow.

Pudge Rodriguez just saved major league baseball in South Florida today.

Just like the Mariners/Yankees divisional series in 1995 transformed Seattle into a baseball town, I think this series is going to turn around the Marlins franchise and make this the well-supported team everyone's been expecting they would be from their 1993 inception. The crowd packed the football stadium, was into the game and they left happy. Deliriously happy.

Of course, if Jeff Loria orders a Huizenga-esque fire sale, all bets would be off ...

C'mon CITT, it's likely that post-WS fire sale was economically necessary AND made the current young Marlins team possible.

While it was a very exciting game, like the Hernandez Bunt marathon in the AL, I wouldn't call it "great" -- the team that tried hardest to give it away LAST lost.

Pudge won it (aside from Cruz's atrocious muff), but the AB where he bunted -- TERRIBLE play...

Let's not overrate those ex-Pirates; they're useful players, but it was Prior and the Braves' inability to field on a mucky surface that decided the game. (kinda like, as Baseball Prospectus pointed out, Dusty Baker was fortunate to arrive in Wrigley the year Prior & Zambrano came of age.)

And that age will end awfully quick if Dusty doesn't slow down the arm abuse on those two, plus Kerry Wood.

I remember the idiot Fox crew on Game One of the Braves/Cubs series (Brennaman and Lyons) going on and on about how Kerry Wood can go 130+ pitches a start and I'm thinking: yeah, Jim Riggelman thought that too and that's why Wood had Tommy John surgery and lost two seasons 1999-2000. And Prior and Zambrano are on that track if Dusty doesn't let up.

But, I guess, if you're the Cubs, you'd give up 10+ years of future dominating pitching for just one chance to win it all.

Funny when I read this quote all I could think of is been there done that. I think they did give up 10+ years of dominating pitching when they let Maddux go.

But really, Dusty is sticking with his starters as long as he can, because he not as confident in his bullpen. Whether that comes back to bite him remains to be seen.