Lets compile a weekly Top 12 Poll with posters submiting their top 12 teams.

The poll will rank teams based on a formula giving the 12th place team 1 point, the 11th place team 2 points,the 10th place team 3 points, and so forth until the 1st place team receives all 12 points.

The voting for the weekly poll can begin as early as late Saturday night with Thursday 5pm EST/1700 being the deadline.

[ August 17, 2006, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: GymMountainEER ]

1. West Virginia
2. Ohio State
3. Notre Dame
4. Texas
5. USC
6. LSU
7. Louisville
8. California
9. Florida
10.Penn State
11.Auburn
12.UTAH

[ August 22, 2006, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: GymMountainEER ]

1. West Virginia
(tie) 1. Ohio State
3. USC
4. LSU
5. Notre Dame
6. Auburn
7. Texas
8. Florida
9. Louisville
10. Iowa
11. Clemson
12. Georgia

Why? West Virginia undoubtedly has the easiest road to the MNC, however they may also have the best team regardless of schedule and could compete in any conference this particular year. The conference and schedule do not the determine the pure talent on a team, and WVU definitely has talent. OSU has to replace NINE defesive starters. Yes, they have a great offense. Yes they have the TALENT to replace 9 starters on defense. Will they go undeafeated? It's possible. The national championship might very well feature WVU vs. OSU. #1 will be determined in that game which is why I put them as tied for #1. The true #1 will be determined later.

If you are wondering why I ranked Texas at 7 it's because they will likely lose to OSU which will knock them down along with another loss in the Big 12 Champ game OR to Nebraska or Oklahoma.

Louisville is the best team in the BE besides WV and if they beat Miami and win every other game besides WVU, #9 is legit.

Clemson will be the best team in the ACC. Although the ACC is a fairly strong league in regards to top 25 teams with 4 or so, the ACC overall does not have a standout team this year that will be capable of producing a top 10 caliber team or go undefeated. I feel Clemson is a better team than FSU, Miami, VT which will probably be top 25 teams but will all likely have between 2-4 losses by the end of the year. Probably the worst of these four is Virginia Tech since they will be replacing con-Vick and have a weaker than usual offense.

USC will win likely the weak Pac-10 once again and while they might be a top 5 team, they will lose a game on their schedule to ND or California. I did not put California as a top 12 team because I honestly don't think they are a top 10 team. They look good on paper, but they may possibly be #3 in the Pac 10 this year behind Oregon but could pull have potential to pull a win out against a team like USC.

Notre Dame will lose 1-2 games. I don't think they have a shot at going undefeated. Not with Michigan, Michigan State, Georgia Tech, Penn State and USC on their schedule.

Why 4 SEC teams? They are the best league. They all do not play each other. They are capable of producing 4 teams with 1-2 losses that will still deserve a top 12 ranking. The ones I listed are the ones I think have the potential to do so. I do not think any SEC team will have an undefeated season nor will be playing in the MNC game because of that.

Iowa will be #2 in the Big 10(+1). Michigan has the qualities to be #2 but if they choke in games like they did last year, they might not even be a top 20 team. OSU and Iowa are the two best teams in the Big 10 if they like up to preseason hype. The next two will fight for third and those 2 are Michigan and Penn State.

1. Ohio State
2. USC
3. West Virginia
4. LSU
5. Iowa
6. Auburn
7. Texas
8. Notre Dame
9. Michigan
10. California
11. Penn State
12. Oregon (tie)
12. Oklahoma (tie)

[ August 24, 2006, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: CHIathlete ]

So, before I throw my hat into the ring here, are we voting on the teams that we feel are the strongest? Or how we think the teams will finish the season?

Since WVU seems to be the hot topic of conversation, if I was voting solely based on team strengthy, they'd be somehwere in the 7-10 range. If I was voting based on where I think they may finish the year, they'd be top 5, thanks in part to the relatively easy schedule.

So is this Top 12 a prediction of how the teams will finish the season, updated weekly to reflect current results? Or is it more of a "Power 12" ranking a team's strength?

Without some guidelines, some of us may be voting on apples, while others are voting based on oranges!

Well I'm voting on oranges...

1-Notre Dame
2-Ohio State
3-SC
4-Florida
5-Clemson
6-Auburn
7-Texas
8-LSU
9-WVU
10-Penn State
11-Miami
12-Georgia

Much as it pains me to say it, Notre Dame seems to have all the goods. Nothing would please me more than to drop them like a hot potato when the losses start coming, say Sept. 2 vs. Georgia Tech!!

Ohio State still has to prove something to me, they could do it against Texas...

Never rule out SC!! They have all year to mature and prepare for Notre Dame, whereas ND is already mature and have nowhere to go but down.

Place top 12 teams as you wish. If that is based off power rankings (ESPN's poll) or where you think the team will finish in the AP poll, that's is more than ok.

However, Not to beat a dead horse and turn this into a WVU thread as the posts should be on the topic at hand, but Its interesting you don't see WVU as a Top 5 team. WVU finished 5th last year after its Sugar Bowl win. WVU returns 100 percent ( most were 1st year players- Freshman) of its offense that ran, passed, caught, or returned kicks. Also, the O line returns 3 of the better players at their respective positions. Also, 7 return on Defense return.

So, you are saying a team that finished 5th last year at 11-1 that returns its entire offense which includes some of the nation's best in Steve Slaton, Pat White, and the 2 All Americans on the line in Dan Mozes ( who will be a 1st team All american) and Sheffey aren't one of the top 5 teams in America?

If possible on the Big East thread, I would like to see your logic in this assesment.

Thanks

[ August 25, 2006, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: GymMountainEER ]

Well, my answer is, in some ways, on topic (at least to my question about the poll). Assuming you're asking me why I don't think WVU would be in the Top 5 of my 'Outsports Power Poll Top 12' here is my thinking:

(1) In a pre-season poll with no games yet played this season, I'd largely base my vote on how the team played and finished last season. Yes, WVU finished strong, but as much as the bowl game showcased their offense, it showcased some weakness in their defense. I don't know if that defense would be able to stop a Texas, USC, Ohio State, Notre Dame, etc. often enough to pull out a W.

(2) Although WVU finished 11-1, I don't think their schedule was as tough as other teams' schedules last season and I don't think they would have fared as well against tougher competition.

(3) Last year WVU came out of nowhere, unranked, to finish in the Top 5. In my experience, a team plays much differently when it has high expectations placed on it than it does when it comes out of nowhere. I expect those expectations may catch up with WVU at some point this season.

I fully expect you disagree with my reasoning, but the above is why I wouldn't rank WVU in the Top 5 in a 'power poll.' I would rank them in the Top 5 in a 'how will they end the year' poll. None of this is meant as a shot against WVU. They're an exciting team to watch and I look forward to seeing them play this season!

I am not knowledgeable about football particularly, but agree strongly with your #3 as being true throughout sports. Young teams who overacheive or surprise in one season often don't take the next 'logical' step in the following season. This year's baseball analogy would be the Cleveland Indians. High expectations can be tough on teams even when they are experienced and battle-tested.

The 2 WVU guys picked WVU to be #1. I am stunned!

[ August 26, 2006, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: Jim at Outsports ]

Texas lost most of their offense and the reason they won the championship. Same for USC. They will both be starting untested QB's. Whether their new starters work out for them is yet to be seen. Anything said about their offense is true speculation. WVU has 9 proven starters returning on offense and 11 guys on defense that have started at least 1 game. No matter how weak our schedule is, it is not indicative of how good our team is.

Just remember in that bowl game against UGA that we jumped to a 28 point lead and downed the ball on the 25 yard line at the end of the game. Not to mention we ran for 382 yards and had over 500 yards of total offense on one of the top run defenses in the nation...and this game was played IN GEORGIA right in the dawg's backyard in Atlanta.

OSU is beatable and I just have to point out the fact that OSU lost NINE, yes NINE, defensive starters off last year's team. ND is overrated and has a relateively weak defense. Let's face it, they have been one of the most overrated teams in the country over the last 15 years. In case you didn't notice, WVU's defense was ranked 8th in total defense at the end of the year last year. Did you know that? Probably not.

Our defensive breakdown in the bowl game came in the 2nd quarter after we jumped out to a 28-0 lead. UGA scored 21 points in the second quarter because we switched to a ratty version of the prevent defense. Notice that the rest of the game, UGA scored only 14 points. We held them when we needed to and beat the SEC champs in what was basically a home game for them.

And don't even get me started on weak schedules...Many teams have made it to the MNC game with only 1-2 top 25 teams on their schedule. FSU in the 1990's is a perfect example of that. Virginia Tech 1999 is a good example.

WVU could not look into a crystal ball and forsee Miami, BC and VT running off to the ACC. Nor could they see that the other teams on their schedule were going to be weak when contracts for most of their schedule were signed 4-5 years ago. The fact remains this: WVU is in a BCS conference. They play BCS teams week in and week out although many of those teams are weak, the BE has only had a very short time to recover from the mess the ACC caused. The teams will get stronger.

The BE is the smallest conference with 8 teams and yet they still have a #5 WVU and #13 UL team to show for it. How many other conferences can say that 25% of their teams are ranked in the top 15 besides the SEC?

Just play the games. Talk and predictions are cheap at this point in the season no matter WHAT team you are talking about. If WVU wins all their games, that's all the proof they need to shut people like you up just like last year in the Sugar Bowl.

Yes, talk and predictions are cheap at this time of year -- yours as well as mine. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean that I'm someone that needs to be shut up! I'll be the first one to congratulate WVU and its fans if I'm wrong. One of my best friends is a WVU alum and fan and he and I are both looking forward to seeing WVU play this year.

Yes, WVU's offensive performance in the bowl game was impressive. Their defensive performance, whether it be because of a mental letdown with a big lead or otherwise, was not as impressive. I just don't know if their defense would stand up to some of the better offensive teams in the country. That defense may have ranked #8 in the country last year, but it came against relatively weaker competition.

Yes, USC, Texas and OSU lost starters. Why do I not count this as heavily against those teams as against others? Depth. Those three teams in particular are stacked with talent. That's why I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt whereas I may not be with WVU.

Is ND overrated? Yes, I think they are, precisely because of their defense; I hold that against them as much as I do against WVU. I didn't know how WVU's defense would do against Notre Dame's offense, which I think you'd agree will be tough.

This goes back to my original point -- many teams have made the MNC game with only 1-2 top 25 teams on their schedule. But does that mean I should rank them #1 or #2? It does if I'm ranking them based on where I think they'll finish at the end of the season. It doesn't necessarily if I'm ranking them based on which team I think is toughest.

Look, WVU has a damn good football team. I can't believe I got such a vehement reaction by saying I might not rank them in my Top 5!

[ August 26, 2006, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: NorCalHusker ]

Come on NorCal, you know how it works. Saying anything remotely aniti-WVU and you need to shut up.

You must have missed the nonsense that went on in the College Football threads last year then. Guess even though they were graciously given a second chance by Jim and Cyd they haven't quite learned the lesson. If they think the rest of us are putting up with another entire season of bashing anyone who doesn't have a Mountaineer pennant shoved up their ass, they've got another thing coming.

[ August 26, 2006, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: George Twins fan ]

1. Ohio State
2. Notre Dame
3. USC
4. Texas
5. Penn State
6. Georgia
7. LSU
8. Oklahoma
9. Auburn
10. California (Go Bears!)
11. Florida
12. Florida State

This thread has become interesting and almost resembles a theatre play instead of focusing on the topic at hand. I take some responsibility for posting an inquiry into the reasoning of Huskers opinion. I suggested Husker to respond in the Big East thread as my intent wasn't to belittle or devalue, but to understand the reasoning ( more on that later in the Big East thread).


God forbid Derby and myself( who were actual athletes) engage and initiate in clean good spirited competitive discussions on SPORTS related issues. The replies that were to seek reasoning and logic ( is this a crime?) while also providing facts that assisted in debunking a differing opinion were tame. This same type of discussion/interaction is viewed as not only acceptable, but embraced by the sporting world its competitive nature that trickles down to the fans on message boards. All one has to do is check in on Rivals, Scout, ESPN, and other sports message boards. Its bewildering that some view this type of discourse hostile on a SPORTS MESSAGE BOARD.

Mine and more than likely Derby's intent was far from "vehement". Another logic I fail to see a disagreement ( void of insults) is perceived as hostile. Its bit dramatic and trigger happy to play this card on a random differing opinion, don't you think?


I consider these type of posts and debates good spirited fun. Similar to game day discussions with opposing fans at tailgates.. After the discussion, you give them a beer and laugh about it.

Aside from Twin's' fan brilliant analysis of using a disagreement as an opportunity to practice his flailing prowess, I have yet to see any posts ( including this one)that were out of bounds. Insults are no longer part of the Outsports culture. I'm also failing to understand the need to revisit issues. I'm only touch base on some of the events so you can upgrade to a more clear and concise understanding, ok?


Regarding this post:

"Come on NorCal, you know how it works. Saying anything remotely aniti-WVU and you need to shut up.

You must have missed the nonsense that went on in the College Football threads last year then. Guess even though they were graciously given a second chance by Jim and Cyd they haven't quite learned the lesson. If they think the rest of us are putting up with another entire season of bashing anyone who doesn't have a Mountaineer pennant shoved up their ass, they've got another thing coming."


The assertion WVU football dominated college football discussion last year is highly inaccurate. My inception ontoOutsports was in October of last year. After posting for a short 3 weeks, the content of posts seem less on game plans, schemes, and match ups. The message board fell off the radar as a destination. I casually visited up until the bowl match ups. After WVU's victory in the Sugar Bowl, I enjoyed reminding a "certain" group of posters of previous comments. That seemed to ruffle their feathers. At no point did WVU dominate college football discussions. This is when all hell broke loose which carried over to college basketball.


There is no doubt my posts became a lightning rod attracting of posts from a certain group of posters who assumed Outsports was their playground. There were some who never posted on college issues, but decided to assist their "group" and turn the thread into a circus of non sports issues. As I have said many times, I am very guilty of intensifying the situation. I responded in an immature way. I apologized ( a sincere one) to Outsports and its members ( that were not contributing members of the frey) that were offended ny my remarks.

Also, I was banned for insults in response to insults. Not for posting an abundance of WVU issues.

My very first post on Outsports was to discuss Big East football. The board didn't have one at that time. The replies received in a thread for BIG EAST discussions from mostly non-big east fans were ridiculous. They ranged from Big Least ( one of the tame responses) comments, Trailer Park references at WV, "inferior gene pool", and at a later time in another thread as cowardly as using black lung the Sago Mining accident ( PhillyFan) and its deaths (real cute, huh?) on sports related issues. Also, during basketball season an entire thread was started on WVU's all American basketball Kevin Pittsnoogle with pictures of his wedding being used as an open free for all to insult all things WV. At that time, I intiated in a hard hitting repoire escalated events.


Hopefully, those events ( as I thought they already were) is water under the bridge. I have no issues from the past as I have taken accountability for my part. Obviously, some feel a need to villianize me and even Derby to overlook their part.

[ August 27, 2006, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: GymMountainEER ]

I never told anyone to shut up. Please read again...If WVU wins all of their games, they will shut all the critics of WVU and the BE up.

Mark this down. Regardless off what you people like to think about the BE, either WVU or Louisville or BOTH will be in the top 12 at the end of the year.

Just some other thoughts...

The way I picked my top 12 was looking at what would be year end rankings. Notre Dame plays USC. Texas plays Ohio $tate. Penn State plays Ohio $tate and Notre Dame. No WAY they are going to all end up top 5. 2-3 of those teams will not be in the top 5 at the end of the season for that reason alone. This is why the SEC has a problem producing a regular national championship team even though they are absolutely the best conference...regardless of the notorious behavior of many teams in the SEC with regards to NCAA sanctions and probation.

Before you make your picks, it might be a good bit of advice to look at returning players, schedules, coaching and personell changes. It does help.

Wow. Gay people who were actual athletes! That's so cool. Can I touch you?

Predicting the top 12 teams has nothing to do with being an athlete. It's more luck than anything but even doing a half decent job requires some insight and information on teams, schedules, personell, coaching and how a team matches up with the teams on their schedules. Then you have the outside influences such as injuries and other health issues, weather, team chemistry and emotional/personalities of individuals on those teams.

All of these predictions are a long shot and it's just for fun. I stated my reasoning behind my predictions because I have done a little more research than most average college football fans have on most teams. It still doesn't make me right but it will be interesting to see who is the closest to being right at the end of the season.

..and no. Don't touch me. Mad dogs usually have rabies.

Wow. Profiling is SO in this year.

I didn't see you include 'bias' in your list of things to help your determine your list. Do you think people on here might put their favorite team at number one and then try to find ways to defend it? Maybe this should be a "Who are you rooting for?" thread instead.

[ August 27, 2006, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: Maddog ]

Apparently, me and gym-boy aren't the only ones that think WVU is a top 5 team. Bias, eh? Clicky clicky...

here

and here

and here

and here

and here

and here

[ August 27, 2006, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: wvderby ]

Thanks for the links.

So if I take the polls that you chose and average them out, they rank WVU at 3.57.

Was it bias that made you and GM put them at number 1? That's all I'm asking. Should bias be a part of the selection process?

i will probably participate in the polls when the season starts, but don't feel well-educated enough to offer a pre season list that i can feel confident in as i haven't read any magazines yet. i know the "stars" that have graduated and a few tidbits about who's missing nine starters on defense, etc....but i don't know enough about many of the "big teams" to comment at this point.

the guidelines for voting should mirror the AP or harris polls, i think...i believe they vote for the best teams, and don't vote on how they think teams will finish the season. i think that if you think a team is the seventh strongest but will finish higher or lower based on schedule, you should still vote them seventh at this point.

WVU received 6 first place votes for #1 in the AP poll. Las Vegas has them as the odds on favorite to win the National Championship. Pat Forde and other ESPN analysts have them @1.

Indeed, Derby and myself are passionate WVU fans. With that being said, each of us wouldn't place WVU as #1 team because its "our" team. Why not ask us the reasoning on our selection. The same way we inquired with Husker his reasoning to place WVU with top 5 teams.

There is two things at work for those that dismiss WVU as a legitimate National Championship contender. With a roster stacked with players among the best if not the best at many positions and coming off a BCS win and top 5 ranking from last year, it should be expected.

One could surmise only two things as the reasoning for the dismisal of WVU as a top 5 caliber team.

A)A Casual football fan that believes elite programs should only enter into this preseason discussion for national championships. For example, if a FSU fan who was pimping FSU as a contender, it would be acceptable and even embraced, right? However, the reality is FSU has only finished in the top 15 ONCE in the last 6 years, yet they are placed in the top 10 every year. Why? Because of their name is Florida State. The casual fan has no desire to investigate returning talent, situations, other information would have no issues with FSU name in the mix because its customary.

Programs like WVU receive the opposite reaction regardless of how talented they are initially. WVU has been a good to very good program, but its only had 3 elite type years ( in 88, 93, and 05). Last year was the first step toward the goal of coach RR of making WVU yearly National Championship team. At this time, WVU's name in the top 5 seems out of place, so naturally there is skepticism when an outsider is knocking on the door seeking elite status. With all the showering of love directed toward WVU this offseason, casual football fans might warm up to this idea if WVU produces another outstanding season in the following years.

Other Reason:

Biased voting is a problems with human polls. Why should outsports be differently? Maddogs post is a perfect example of this. Which is fine. The AP and ESPN/USA today polls have voters who champion an agenda that either inflates or devalues a team. That is ok. More times than not the overall number of about of votes evens out agendas. However, There are programs say like VT and BC that I dislike or even the posters I don't paticulary care for. Would I allow this dislike to dictate how my poll read? Absolutely not. wink

[ August 29, 2006, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: GymMountainEER ]

not to be biased, not only does WVU have a pretty easy schedule (check out some of the other teams' schedules as well-we're not talking top 10 teams every week or even top 50 in some cases) but WVU also has the talent

offensively, we're going to blow other teams out of the water

defensively and special teams-haven't heard as much but I think we'll hold our own

I'm very apprenhensive to put WVU as 1 but I think we're definately a top 5 team

I want to see how we perform against Marshall before I say that we are definitely number 1

1. Ohio State
2. Notre Dame
3. USC
4. West Virginia
5. Texas
6. Auburn
7. Florida
8. LSU
9. Iowa
10.Oklahoma
11.Michigan
12.Louisville

1. Ohio St.
2. Auburn
3. Notre Dame
4. USC
5. Texas
6. West Virginia
7. LSU
8. Florida
9. Oklahoma
10. Miami
11. California
12. Buffalo(screw you guys, it's my picks ! )

LOL I actually have them at 117 but above Temple.

If they let me down this weekend I may have to drop them to 118 or 119...

117....I normally don't have them rated that high ....maybe with a W they'll make it there.

Hey if Steve Spurrier can vote Duke #25 in the first coaches poll...

And if Buffalo wins tommorow I thinks they'll stay another week .

1. Texas
2. Ohio State
3. USC
4. Auburn
5. Notre Dame
6. Florida State
7. Iowa
8. West Virginia
9. Florida
10. Oklahoma
11. Clemson
12. LSU

I fully expect these will change radically during the first few weeks of the season.

Just a reminder.

Voting for Outsports top 12- WEEK ONE will conclude at 5 pm EST/1700 today.

Also, I will add the experts top 12 ( from their top 25 poll) in addition to the outsports members.

Why? What do they know?