This article states perfectly the transformation of the Big East and its mission to become an exceptional football conference.

Next year, the Big East should have a banner year.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewt...pic.php?t=72025

[ March 14, 2006, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: WVUBuff ]

WOW! Two top-10 teams in one conference? Why, that's amazing! I don't think it's ever been done before in the history of college football. And to think, there's another team (Pitt) that might someday down the road be kinda good too? Holy crap!

Ahhhh.....reminds me of my favorite scripture:
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the big east.

[ March 14, 2006, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: HotlantaTarheel ]

Blessed are the fools, they can incorporate BC, VT, and Miami ( thugs).

Thanks for taking out the trash for the Big East & we got paid for it too!

Much as I like eastern football, the reality is that the Big East has only three programs with longstanding history of respectability.

WV, Pitt, Syracuse...that's it.

Cincy....have they ever been on the national stage?

L'Ville....before last few years....ditto.

Rutgers....don't make me laugh...any school that gets its ass kicked by Buffalo at home cannot call itself a respectable program.

UConn, South Florida, didn't even have D1A football until 6 years or so ago.

Maybe the conference is on its way up, hopefully so. But is it because it can't get any worse??
The lack of tradition and history from these schools will leave the Big East with a perception of weak football compared to its BCS brethren and this rep will stay with them for years. Save for winning a few national titles maybe and quite frankly I'm not optimistic.

Just sayin'

I'm not one to stir up trouble, but.....this thread should be titled "Boom to Delusion". The only evidence that the Big East will get better in football is based on the notion that it can't get any worse. However, if we want to look at a real sign of things to come, then lets take a look at recruiting, that gives us a good indicator of what lies ahead.

First, the Big East had ZERO teams ranked in the Top 25 of recruiting classes for 2005. Not a good sign. All 25 of the top recruiting classes belong to schools in the Big 5 conferences (ACC, Big Ten, Big East, Pac-10, and SEC). And to make things worse, only one, Pittsburgh, was listed in the Top 25 recruiting classes for 2006. All of the other Big 5 conferences had at least 3 schools represented. Louisville and West Virginia, the two leaders of the Big East currently, averaged recruiting classes ranked #31 and #46 (based on average rank from Rivals.com and collegefootballnews.com) Multiple weak years of incoming talent, even despite great seasons, spells DECLINE. In fact even Duke, yes Duke, a school that I cannot even confirm has a football team, had a recruiting class just slightly behind West Virginia, equal to Syracuse and Rutgers, but well ahead of other Big East deadweights South Florida, UConn, and Cincinnati (which landed behind a number of 1-AA schools). In fact, the average recruiting class for Big East schools (52) was ranked lower than Duke (#49).

This is a bad sign for the Big East when the BCS alliance comes up for renewal in a few years. The Big East champ may have to settle for playing the MAC champ in the Motor City Bowl.

sources:
College Football News
Rivals

I have a great idea. Tar Heel, now that I see My conference is in big trouble, maybe we should champion this cause.


I am now of the belief the AP and USA Today/ESPN coaches poll should rank programs off recruiting rankings. In using the four previous years, it would be simple to pick the National Champions and top teams in America.

OK, back to reality.
While recruting is of major importance, there are many other factors that come into play. For instance, coaching, player development, a program's offensive and defensive schemes and how players adjust, and most importantly IMO is the transformation of teenagers living with Mom and Dad to becoming an adult.

I admit I wish the Big east would have done better in recruitng. But, it didn't do too terribly. Actually, the BIg East wasn't too far behind the Pac-10. Louisville finished strong nabbing players away from Auburn. Pitt had an exceptional class and even Rutgers grabbed 2 4 star recruits.

Now, now... don't go making an argument using facts. That just isn't done here.

Besides, don't you know that WVU has the BEST college football coach in America?

That's why Penn State is going to suck again next year. Rivals ranked our last 3 recruiting classes #6, #25, #14. But since we obviously have a bad coaching staff with no history of winning or developing talent, it's back to oblivion. Or didn't you get that memo?

[/sarcasm]

[ March 15, 2006, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Penn State ]

homer Because the kid scored in the single digits on his ACT and WOULD NOT qualify under the SEC academic requirements. The Big East's academic requirements aren't as great and "Peanut" would be able to play in his first year. Good riddance to a really dumb kid.

Its rather amusing Tar Heel utilizes slective recruitng services for an argument that is harldy of signifigance.

Ole Boy cited Rivals and some other obscure recruting service. However, for SOME reasons he didn't reference Scout.com ( the best recruiting service). In the past, he has used Scout many times on recruitng issues. So, why not this time?

Maybe because Scout loves Pitt's and Louisvile class and ranks them both in the top 30.

Scout has Pittsburgh ( which destroyed Penn State in Western PA in recruiting) ranked 11th & Lousiville ranked 26th. Pitt has an oustanding class. Louisville beat out Auburn on two highly rated recruits. One of them was a 5 star recruit in Auburns back,yard show chose toe play in the Big East.


Rutgers grabbed 2 4 star recruits.

Syracuse grabbed 3 4 star recruits off a 1-10 season.

USF Grabbed two 4 star rectuits.

Speaking of next year's recruitng class, UCONN already has a top 100 player in the country commited.

Last, but certainly not least.

West Virginia did just fine in recruitng. With a limited amount of scholarships, WVU signed role players that would contrubute to the ultra talented sophomores to be class who led WVU to a BCS victory as freshman last year.

Why should WVU be so consumed with recruiting, when it already has players that are some of the best in the country and are just sophomores who still have three more years in college football?

I guess that is the difference between UNC and WVU. WVU used freshman at QB, WR, RB, and WR and wins a BCS bowl game. UNC uses upperclassman and doesn't make a bowl game and loses 69-14 to a Big East team.


Also, its surprising that PSU would attempt to talk up recruitng. Why? With all the great classes, PSU has been mediocre ( except for last year) since 2000. With the graduation of the running QB that was a difference maker in truning around the PSU program, it must really be nervious contemplating if last year was a one hit wonder and if things don't go South again.

Buffy, please see above reference how Louisville "stole" a 5 star from Auburn. It was all academics. Kid wanted to play next year and he couldn't play in the SEC, but he can in Big East.

That's not what the kids stated. He is redshirting next season at Louisville most likely. He wanted to leave Alabama and live in a city.

I'll get the rivals preminium interview for you. After seeing the influx of many Auburn fans crying on the Lousiville board that day, its funny to see your spin of academics.

Buffy, no need on the Rivals Premium...I have it...I need it for my business...because sports ARE my business...surprised?

Uh, he won't redshirt...want to bet? Auburn fans may have been moaning because Bobby Petrino just won't go away. Also, he made the worst mistake he could have made. He certainly won't get the recognition/exposure at Louisville that he would have gotten at an SEC school....and as an SEC grad you know that is true. Plus, once Petrino leaves next year...well....it won't be pretty.

Article 4 of 20, Article ID: MERLIN_3014005
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Published on February 1, 2006, Birmingham News (AL)

Peanut picks Louisville Academics play a role in West End star's choice

It costs $2.95 for the archived article...use your verisign and you can get it.

Of course, YOUR alma mater was crying also when we stole 2 four stars right out from under them.

[ March 17, 2006, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: Aubie In Bham ]

Oh Fluffernutter, where to start? I'm going to "hijack" the thread for a minute, but I have to respond.

You must love saying that... you've brought it up in more than one thread. Did it ever occur to you that just maybe we weren't going after the Western PA kids as hard as kids in other areas that fit our needs? In case you haven't heard, we cleaned out the state of Maryland this year (7 players), grabbing several 4 and 5 star players along the way. Over the past 2 years, less than half of PSU recruits have come from PA and NJ, our \"traditional\" recruiting territory. In this past years class, we got 6 players from PA, all ranked in the top 25 players in the state.

Your beloved Scout ranked this years PSU class #6, so if that's the kind of class we get getting \"destroyed\" in Western PA, you can destroy us in Western PA every year. We want the best players we can get for the positions we need to fill.

Again, according to Scout, this year PSU picked up two 5-star, eleven 4-star, and nine 3-star recruits. By my math, that's more 4-star recruits than Rutgers, Syracuse and USF combined. Hell, let's throw in Louisville's four 4-star recruits too. So, now we're tied at eleven 4-star recruits for Penn State, and eleven 4-star recruits for Rutgers, Syracuse, USF and Louisville COMBINED. :cool: But of course, those teams are all going to have banner years, and PSU will roll over and play dead.

Gee, we've moved up to mediocre. And here I thought we just plain sucked. But let's talk about last year. You have to give it a little time. Those 2 Top 25 classes were freshmen and sophomores (and some were redshirted) during last season (you remember, 11-1, final ranking #3). So I guess we did all right with a bunch of young ones and some mostly unheralded upperclassmen. I mean, really, how many people predicted Robinson would have the season he did at QB? The #6 class we picked up this year hasn't even stepped on the field yet.

The last time I checked, the game is played by more than just the QB. For the record, we return 35 lettermen and 11 starters. Returning 35 lettermen shows we have some depth (something lacking in those \"mediocre\" years). At QB, we have the #2 rated prospect out of high school taking the reigns. He has had 2 years to mature and learn the system. We return our 1,000+ yard tailback, as well as the fullback. We also return 4 wide receivers who all got significant playing time, so the new QB will have plenty of experience targets to throw to. The O-line will have a mix of veterans and new guys, so getting them to gel will be key.

On D, we return some guy you may have heard of... Butkus award winner Paul Posluszny. In fact, all but one of our linebackers return... and that lone senior did not see any playing time. D-line takes a hit, but has Alford returning. We also have to replace two outstanding corners. But at least the cupboard is not bare. Even during those \"mediocre\" years the defense often played very well (remember the 6-4 loss to Iowa?), so we have been fairly successful in reloading on the defensive side of the ball. It was the offense that was a mess, and we have been addressing that via recruiting.

I think we will be good next year, and have a solid season. Too early to tell how good, but 2-3 losses seems likely, mainly due to line play early in the season (lots of newbies... talented, but newbies). Anything else would be gravy. But as I have said before, everything is gearing up to 2007 being a banner year.

I can talk up recruiting because we have done well the last few years in that area. Better than most, if not all, of the Big East teams.

does having a top 25 recruiting class really matter?

who had the best recruiting class in 2005?

2004?

unless it was your school, I'm willing to bet that you don't know

a good coach can take a so-so recruiting class and take it pretty far

honestly, I rather have a good coach who can take a bunch of kids and make a team rather than a good coach and a bunch of prima donnas who only care about getting their face on Sportscenter

I'm sure that USC fans probably think the same thing, especially after the Rose Bowl

While PSU broke out prevous dismal to average seasons during the last 5 years, it remains to be seen if last year is an anamoly andJoe Pa and staff have the abilty to use the drop back passer or cultivate another scarmbling freshman QB who will be inexperienced. IMO, based on the previous years of trying, it deosn't bode well for PSU fans.

PSU had all kinds of talent, but harldy stacked ( good to very godo recruiting classes) up in the last 5 years. You can chest thump all you want about classes. However, besides last year, what did that deliver besides competing with Indiana, Minnesota, NW, and Michigan State in the bottom 5 of the confernece most of those years. The bottom line is without a good QB PSU could see another losing season next year even with all the influx of talent.

This is why so many putting an emphasis on recuting is very premature. WVU had probably the two best freshamn in the country last season. These two player were the catalyst in leading WVU to a BCS bowl victory ( Similar to making the Final 4 in college basketball). Both were 3 star recruits. One was recruited by the big boys, but declined Auburn, LSU, Alabama, and other SEC schools because they White as an athlete.

However, its rather obvious they were 5 star kids that were under the radar once they started playing on Saturdays. Moreover, WVU heradled 5-star recruits from NYC last year Jason Gwaltney ( MVP of the US All American HS Game who chose WVU over USC & OSU) lost his job to 3 star our other freshman sensation 3-star Steve Slaton West Philly who gained 1100 yards in just 8 games. Why? It happens all the timeas the less heradled recruit was better. WVU should be in the hunt for the National Championship game for the next 3 years with 8 of the starters being 1st year players & none of them were above 3 stars.

Also, Coach Pertino at Louisville has a way of making 3 star rectuits on offense into 5 star player in the country.

Theo is right on. Sometimes a coach like RR, Pertino, and so on can make 3 star players into starts based on their styles. Sometimes a coach like Paterno makes 5 star recruits into a average players like Morrelli because he has difficulty with the speed of today's game attmeptin to keep pace with coaches like RR & Pertino.

If PSU doesn't find a stud at QB next year, 7-5 at best considering your weak OOC next season and the lower teir Big 10 schools like Indiana, Minnesota, Purdue, NW, and Mich State.


Also, PSU went after many of the Pitt recruits. To state you didn't is ridiculous. yes, PSU did well at signing day, but PSU has no success in Western Pa this year. Even WVU nabbed two from PSU in 6-6 WR Lyons ( over 30 offers) & ultra talented Maddox from Philly who were both 3 star recruits and future stars that will be bigtime college players.

[ March 17, 2006, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: WVUBuff ]

I agree with you here. However, I would argue that our coaching staff isn't too shabby. And we have recruited some quality kids that, from all indications so far, are team players AND have above average skills. Which is why we are cautiously optimistic that we are back on track in Happy Valley.

I'm really not upset that we lost Vidal Hazelton to USC because, at the end of the recruiting process, he really started to show his colors as being in the "Sportscenter" mode. Ditto for LeSean McCoy who's heading to Miami. These players cause "Terrell Owens" types of problems on the team. I know... we had some a few years ago, and we saw how that worked.

Actually, we haven't had a steady stream of top notch recruiting classes over the last 6-7 years (for example, in 2003 we were ranked #50). And as I have stated before, we replaced our recruiting coordinator a few years ago, which has resulted in better recruiting efforts.

As for a QB, obviously that is an important position. But, PSU has never been Quarterback U., and we've done quite well. However, I do think the game has changed (more emphasis on passing), and the QB position is in some ways more important than in the past. Starting with Morelli (rated #2 coming out of HS), the coaches have placed more emphasis on recruiting AND landing top QB's. In this year's class, we have Pat Devlin, ranked #4 by Scout. Morelli takes over this year, and from all indications has a much better arm than Robinson. Whether he has the leadership qualities remains to be seen.

The QB problem the last few years was actually more of a receiver problem. Zack Mills had a solid season in 2002 when we went 9-3 during his sophomore season. But in 2003 and 2004 we were so thin at receiver and running back, we had to utilize Robinson in those positions, while he continued to play backup QB. During those years we lost many close games (18-10 to Nebraska, 30-23 Wisconsin, 21-20 to Ohio State, 6-4 to Iowa, 20-13 to Purdue... you get the picture). We were a couple of skill players and some more depth away from respectable, though not necessarily great, seasons.

Last year was the first year we truly utilized a scrambling QB. What kind of QB do you think we had all those years we were beating WVU? Mack Brown was gracious enough to let some of our assistant coaches spend time with his staff prior to the season, in order to learn their offense and how they utilized Vince Young. This was a case of Paterno being more flexible, updating and tailoring the offense to the players, not trying to \"force a round peg into a square hole.\" Word is that Morelli and staff are spending some time with Colts Assistant Head Coach/QB Coach Jim Caldwell (former PSU assistant who was Kerry Collins college coach) this year.

At this point, I'm more worried about line play next year, than I am about QB play.

You have no clue how much energy Paterno still has. You would be shocked if you attended one of his practices. Despite that, as has been stated already, Paterno has pulled back somewhat on his involvement in the trenches, letting the assistants do more of the coaching and game planning. For a control freak like Paterno, who when in his early 70's would still get down in a 3 point stance to show players how it's done, this is a huge change, but one he realized was necessary. So lay off the \"game has passed him by\" stuff. It took awhile, but he's making the adjustments necessary.

I never said PSU didn't go after the Pitt recruits, and I don't understand what your obsession with that is. What I said was they weren't make or break, they weren't our highest priority, and we did quite well without them. To quote: "Did it ever occur to you that just maybe we weren't going after the Western PA kids as hard as kids in other areas that fit our needs?" Work on your reading comprehension.

Which 4 and 5 star recruits did we lose to Pitt from Western PA? WR Dorin Dickerson, rated #4 by Scout. But just for good measure, we did get 5-star WR Chris Bell (Scout rank #5) out of Virginia. So don't feel too bad for us, we'll manage. S Elijah Fields, rated #8 by Scout. 4-star recruit. This one hurt, as we lost Myron Rolle to FSU and Leonard Gordon to Notre Dame. Our best recruit at this position is 3-star Cedric Jeffries. But hey, maybe he's "flying under the radar," as you say. Pitt also got LB Nate Nixon, a 4-star player, rated #33. However, we did get Navorro Bowman, a 4-star out of MD, rated #22. So, that's 3 top notch players from Western PA we lost to Pitt. 2 of those we got equally good, or better, players from other areas based on the rankings. We also lost a couple of 3 star players to Pitt, one a WR (which, we've already determined was not a priority position this year, so the Chris Bell pickup will be fine), and one QB (we already picked up Devlin, a 4-star).

As for Lyons, we will probably be fine without him. That doesn't mean we didn't pursue him, so don't get your panties in a bunch. wink However, have you looked at our depth chart at WR? We have 4 stud players who all saw significant playing time last year as freshmen and sophomores. We had much more pressing needs at other positions. However, as mentioned above, we got Chris Bell just for good measure.

Look, obviously 3 star recruits sometimes turn into top notch players, while some 5 star recruits never make the cut. However, I would rather be bringing in 3, 4, and 5 star recruits than 2, 3 and 4 star recruits. Any coach would. Trust me, no matter how good RR may be, if he doesn't want 5 star recruits, he's nuts. The trick, as Theo said, is to figure out which are not team players, and steer clear, or at least know how to contain them so they don't hurt the team.

Do we still have some concerns and doubts in the back of our minds? Yes. But looking at all the changes the program has made in the last 2 years, the better recruiting, the TYPE of kids we are getting (not just the skill level), we are very optimistic that the wheels are back on and we are moving in the right direction. Unlike some people on this board, I am not claiming we will be challenging for a NC every year (well, maybe in 2007 wink ), but I do think we will be competitive, have winning seasons, and be ranked among the Top 10/20.

[ March 18, 2006, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: Penn State ]

Recruiting classes can be a tough thing to judge. During Don Nehlen's tenure at WVU, he often had to settle for the leftovers Pitt and Penn State didn't want, but he did pretty well. On the flip side, WVU out recruited the likes of USC last year for running back Jason Gwaltny (sp). Unfortunately, the kid didn't work out and has left school. Similarly, Pat White and Steve Slaton weren't that highly recruited and they became instant impact players.

Good Post Jersey Guy.

Many people are placing the stars by the names of these recruits as the gospel word. Most often times, these players never live up to the hype.

The Big East has 5 star players like Brian Brhom who was the player of year in High school just 2 years ago that is certainly that type of player.

Then, a 5 star recruit like Jason Gwaltney who you already alluded to who was beaten out by freshman sensation Steve Slaton who was just a 3 star recruit.


Im anxious to see if 5 star recruit Anthony Morreli of Penn State is hype or that type of player. He is the classic case of over inflated rankings and expecations that never equate to stars next to his name.

That is what schools who don't get many 4 and 5-star players say to make themselves feel better about their recruiting class.

I freely admit (and have done so several times) that not every 5-star player works out, and some 3-star players become top notch performers. Recruiting is not an exact science. But to some extent it does predict future success, if you recruit good kids with their heads on straight, and you recruit for need. As you have said, coaching and transition to college life make a big difference too.

All things being equal, I'd still rather have a class primarily made up of 3 and 4-star players, with a couple of 5-star players, rather than a class of 2 and 3-star players, occasionally getting a 4 or 5-star. This year PSU had two 5-star, eleven 4-star, and nine 3-star recruits. No 2-star recruits that I am aware of, but not 100% sure. If both 5-star recruits turn out to be busts, there are plenty of 3 and 4-star recruits there. I'm sure some of them will break out of the pack.

On the other hand, if you didn't think recruiting rankings mattered, you wouldn't be trumpeting Pitt's (and Louisville's) class this year that was so highly ranked. You can't have it both ways. Or does it only matter when it's a Big East team?

He did pretty well. But in all those years of coaching at WVU, how many National Championships did he contend for, let alone win? Only one, I think. How many 1 or 2 loss seasons did he have, compared to 3, 4, 5 loss seasons? He probably made the most of what he had, but what could he have done if he had better recruiting classes?

OK, in one sentence you say you are anxious to see if he lives up to the hype, in the next you say he is the classic case of over inflated rankings. Which is it?

Don Nehelen competed for 2 National Championship at WVU in 88 and 93.

He was an average recruiter. Everyone admits this even him.

However, its WVU who has fieleded better teams that Penn State over the last 5 years with less recruiting classes. Also, There is a very good chance WVU will have better teams with all its talent back for the next 2 to three years. PSU would die for a QB the caliber of WVU's 3 star recuirt Pat White. The same is said for RB 3 star recruit Steve Slaton.

Coach Rodreguiez has elevated WVU's recruting prowess. In the small class of 15, 2-3 of the 3 star recruits, are 4-5 star players. Here are three recruits you need to rememeber who are incoming to WVU. All are 3 stars that will be All American type players by the end of ther careers.

3 star WR 6-6 Wes Lyons from PA chose WVU over Miami, OSU, PSU, Pitt, Oklahoma, and a number other schools. This 6-6 Speedster will be excpetionally good.

3 Star DB Gred"Hollywood" Davis from VA chose WVU over VT, TN, MD, Nebraska,UVA, ND, and so on. 4.3 speed who will start next year at SS. A Pac- Man Jones (a 2 star player who was a 2 time all american and 6th player picked in NFL 2004 draft) type player who talks and plays at a high level.

3 Star WR/DB John Maddox from Philly chose WVU over PSU, USC, Mich State, Miami, FSU, and others.


I'll put these three star players up against PSU's best three from this class and lets see who develops into the better college player.

[ March 19, 2006, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: WVUBuff ]

Sometimes trying to reason with you is an exercise in futility. But at least you're stayed away from namecalling and personal attacks.
I stand corrected.
Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell. Sometimes players don't repeat stellar seasons. QB's numbers go down because the receiver's change, or the linemen change and don't give the QB time to throw. RB's numbers go down because the linemen change and don't open as many holes. Some players leave early for the pros, injuries can play a factor without proper depth. I appreciate your enthusiasm, and I think WVU will do well for the next few years, maybe longer. But that's all on paper right now. You still gotta play the games.
OK, none of these kids have played a down of college ball. You don't know for sure how they are going to do, nor that they are actually 4-5 star players. Just like you don't know that PSU's 5-star recruits will be a bust, or that their 3-star recruits won't step up and be All Americans. Unless you're psychic. Or the world's best talent evaluator. In which case you should be moving to Morgantown and not Minneapolis (I hope you like it COLD).
Sometimes a player chooses a "lesser" program (and I use that term loosely) over more highly ranked schools for a variety of factors. Sometimes they think they will get more playing time by going to a school that has less talent at their position. Sometimes they develop a relationship with their position coach. Sometimes the "big name" school (again, using the term loosely) doesn't show as much interest, because while they would love to have them, they have other players they are more interested in. Schools go after more players than they can offer scholarships to, knowing that they won't get them all. I'm not saying that's the case with any of these players, I'm just saying it happens. And all top programs recruit 3-star kids... that doesn't mean they all think that 3-star kid is really a 4 or 5-star player. Sometimes they see talent, sometimes they are Plan B.

Also, the "big name" schools can't stockpile talent like they used to (Nebraska used to have 100-125 players, just to keep many of them away from their opponents). Since the 85 scholarship limit was put in place, other schools have become more competitive in recruiting and on the field.

[ March 19, 2006, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Penn State ]

There is no reason to gopersonal in this thread. Your football IQ and abilty to interact in a civil tone without compromising from your opinion doesn't warrant insulting or demeaning comments. Plus, I would only insult a poster that iniated this type repoire first. All the Penn State posters on the board, albeit with higher opinions of themselves from football played before I was born are pretty good guys with outstanding knoweledge of college football. Off this board, most PSU fans I have met are the same way. They refrain from taking shots are other schools and indeed act like they have been there before.

Our neighboors to the South could learn a lesson or two in undestanding there is a high caliber of football played North of the Mason- Dixon line.

From what I have gathered from your posts, you are of the opinion WVU's recruting is a libailty and will prohibit the Mountaineers from consistantly becoming a top 10 team.

I happen to disagree. I think if WVU recruits in the mid 20's to mid 40's, coaching and other factors will come into play that. With a small class of 15 this year, WVU's class ranked in the mid 50's was expected.

That being said, with the major talent that will be sophomores and juniors, this class wasn't of the most importance. Next year's class is the big target. Rest assured, if next years class is less than 35th, I will be the first to state there is reason to be concerened considering Pitt has picked up their recrutiting.

[ March 19, 2006, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: WVUBuff ]

Actually, I don't think anywhere I have said WVU's recruiting would prohibit them from anything. I even said that it looks like WVU will do well over the next few years. My points were to refute the assertion that Penn State was going back to losing seasons (i.e. that last year was an aberration), and that recruiting class rankings do have some relevance (though they are not the only factor) in success. Over numerous postings (in different threads), I have explained changes made to our program, talked about the quality of recruits coming in and the recruiting strategy. I've talked about areas of concern next year, and areas we feel good about.

The only place I believe I mentioned specific WVU recruits was in reference to recruits you brought up as examples. Honestly, I don't know enough about your recruiting class this year to make anything other than broad comments. All the recruiting services penalize you for bringing in a small class... it's inherent in the system. The best thing you can do is look at 2 things: average star ratings of the recruits your brought in, and how well you recruited to the needs in your roster (which none of the services even looks at). Nowhere have I brought up anything specific to WVU in these regards.

The only time I mentioned a correlation between WVU recruiting and success on the field was in regards to the Don Nehlan era. There is obviously historical data there that can be used to draw some conclusions. I even tipped my hat, so to speak, for what he accomplished with the recruits he brought in. This was done in the context of explaining how the overall (not individual) recruit rankings DO have an effect on wins and losses over time. It was not a comment on the current recruiting situation. In fact, I stated that schools other than the "big names" or traditional powers have been able to make more inroads in raising the talent levels of their teams.

Also, I'd like to see anywhere that RR has said he would rather have a bunch of 3-star recruits over a bunch of 4-star recruits. If he could land them at this point in his program building, he would. That doesn't mean he wouldn't take lower ranked recruits that he felt were "diamonds in the rough," it just means he would be bringing in more highly ranked recruits if he could. You can build a program into contender status with "undiscovered" talent, but you will have a hard time keeping it there year in and year out.

I do take issue with you saying that these 3-star recruits you brought in are really 4 and 5-star recruits, and will be All-Americans, before they play a down of college ball. Sure, you can say that about White and Slaton. But that doesn't mean every 3-star recruit you bring in is going to do the same on the field. And if you have information that leads you to believe this, then back up your assertions. Right now all we have is who else recruited them, and your belief they will be star players.

If WVU had a top 10 ranked recruiting class this year, you would barely be able to contain yourself on this board. You would be talking it up to high heaven about how all the top players wanted to go to WVU, and how RR was starting a dynasty, how the Big East was the "it" conference, and how all these players would just add depth to the numerous freshman and sophomores who led your team to a tremendous season in 2005. You would not be on here saying those 4 and 5-star players you landed weren't going to pan out, and that some other team's 3-star players were going to eclipse your players on the field. So why is it OK to say PSU's (or anyone else's) highly ranked recruits won't be as good as someone else's 3-star recruits? It's nothing personal, I'm just saying there's a double standard here.

[ March 19, 2006, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Penn State ]

There might be a little recruiting envy laced around the spining away from the reality this class finished 55th ( down from 31 last season).

And yes, I would be yelling the praises of a class that finsihed 6th ( like PSU's) and talking up these highly rated recruits.

Getting back to the purpsoe of the thread, the Big East is back on track with next year possibly a banner season with two teams capable of winning the National Championship & 2-3 other good to very good teams possible.

However, Tar Heel needed to throw recruiting rankings ( selective ones) as way to offset some good news of the BE.

Here is another article concerning how WVU has a \"Mountain of Expectations\" from SI.

Already, ESPN analysts are picking WVU as possible National champions. Many others have followed. Here is the latest to get on the Mountaineer Express, yet realizes that too much hype can be the downfall of a very good, but young team.


[Post modified for hyperlink format - Outsports moderator]

[ April 13, 2006, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: m1 ]

From Rivals today,

"PENN STATE--defensive coordinator Ron Vanderlinden and his staff were at MountainEER opening day, observing the Mountaineers from the sidelines at Mountaineer Field. Vandy of course once coached against WVU when he was the headman at Maryland."


So, even PSU's coaching staff is making pilgrimages
to Morgantown in hopes of emulating Coach RR's schemes.


[ March 21, 2006, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: WVUBuff ]

It would help if they knew that Vanderlinden is not the defensive coordinator.

I don't care if we emulate someone else's schemes as long as we win. This is an example of why I have faith we will not backslide into the mediocrity of the early part of this decade--a willingness to change by the coaching staff.

And hey, maybe they're just getting some early scout reports for a bowl game matchup next season. :cool:

PSU versus WVU for all the marbles?


Now, that would be a bonafided Eastern Football story, huh?

Lambert Trophy goes to the national champiobn? eek!

West Virginia has a very good chance of going 11-0 or 10-1 thru the regular season. And here's why: weak, weak, weak schedule. Not only do they play in the Big East, the weakest BCS conference by far....
Sagarin Ratings
...but take a look at their non-conference schedule for 2006:
Marshall
Buffalo (yes, Buffalo!)
Maryland
East Carolina
Mississippi State
With a 5-6 record last year, Maryland is the strongest of those cream-puffs. So basically, if WVU wins at Louisville, they'll be playing in a major bowl and possibly the national title.
Likewise, Louisville has an easy schedule, with the exception of ACC power Miami.

And how is USC's schedule any different than WVU's or Louisville's?

Also, how is Louisville and WVU different than FSu when it won 10 straight ACC championships against playing with the average teams of the ACC before Miami and VT came into the league to offer some competition?

An ACC person crying over the lack of competition is rather funny to the rest of the college football world since we has to endure FSU winning every season in the 90's.


If I were an ACC fan, I would worry about actually winning a BCS game on occasion. What is your record again? 1-7 in BCS Bowl games while te Big East is sporting a 5-3 record.

Also, UNC might want to improve on its 31-0 and 69-14 scores the last time it has played a Big East team.


Does it bother you that the Big East will have not ONE, but TWO teams better than any team in the ACC? Im sensing it does.
Im just sayin........... wink

[ March 23, 2006, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: WVUBuff ]

Quit claiming the Miami wins, Buffy. What's the record of those currently in the Big East? Yep, 3 of those wins belong to Miami. Just a little detail you forgot to mention, huh?

Also, how do you get to 5-3 even including Miami?

Miami: 3-1
WVa: 1-0
Pitt: 0-1
VaTech: 0-1
Syracuse: 0-1

That looks like 4-4 to me.

My bad KWG, I was using memory from a stat I saw. Somemtimes, I make an error. This was one of them.

4-4 versus 1-7. Still a huge difference. wink

Current BE members: 1-2 (.333)
Current ACC members: 4-9 (.301)

Not a whole lot of difference, except for the fact that the ACC members have played in 13 games and the BE members in 3. Now that's quite a difference.

Oh yeah. The current ACC members have played in 5 of the 8 BCS title games (had both competitors in one of the games).

ACC sure sucks compared to the BE.

What it tells me is, the ACC needed Miami and so so VT and BC to make themselves a football program.

The ACC took out the BE's garbage. BCS and National Championships upcoming for BE teams in football. WVU and Louisville are much better this coming year than any ACC team. Louisville will score 60 plus on Miami at Pappa John. Deep down you know this will happen to.

Best basketball conference outside the NBA.

UCONN, Rutgers, and Louisville have stadiums with plans to expand to over 60k in football.

Trangese and the BE got the last laugh. wink

[ March 23, 2006, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: WVUBuff ]

Just quoting so you can't edit later.

Get me some odds on this one, because I'm ready to make some cash.

Speaking of betting,

what is the over/under of assitant coaches leaving next year at the U?

Also, will attendance rocket past 42k this season?

Thanks

....HA HA! the so-so VaTech that beat West Virginia last year?

....DOUBLE HA HA!! Right--Miami, Virginia Tech, and Boston College were just the dregs of the Big East. That's obviously why Transghese(sp?) was so upset that the ACC "stole" them. If they were so bad, he should have been happy to get rid of them. Obviously, a lawsuit to prevent them for leaving shows the truth.

FYI: The ACC is a COMPLETE CONFERENCE. Not just football and men's basketball, but also one of the top in women's basketball, men's tennis, women's tennis, baseball, soccer, lacrosse, and field hockey, among others. The addition of our 3 newest members helped to solidify the ACC as the nation's premier overall ATHLETIC conference. The big east is still some over-bloated hybrid creation. It won't survive in its current state for more than 5 years.

Projecting & counting attendance numbers is daunting task considering stipulations involved.

At Miami, considering the mode of transporation of Miami's fane base, clear access to the water routes on gameday that lead to the Orange Bowl is vital to the U's attedance count.

At WVU, abolishing passee guidelines of tooth counting to where the number equates to one set of teeth has helped drastically with the rising of attendance.

wink

[ March 23, 2006, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: WVUBuff ]

Wait a sec....you saying Buffalo's not a strong football program....they won 10 games last y......wait a minute.

They won 10 games since the program went D1A in 1999....silly me.

I'm not certain as to whether that game is coming off, I believe they may have(Buffalo) put Auburn on their schedule in place of WV....guess they wanna lose be 40 instead of 50.

Auburn offered Buffalo 600k for a visit. So, Buffalo decided to play a lesser ranked team and take more money.


Buffalo had to dish out 200k to get of the contract. WVU is now looking for a replacment.

I am really looking forward to Auburn and WVU playing in 2008 & 09. Our dominance of the SEC should continue.

JerseyGuy, OU Sooner, Tdaddy, Derby, and others.

Here is the link for last year's 2005 football video highlight.

Its worth the download. You guys will love it.

As Tony C says "Its a great night to be a MountainEER where ever you may be."

http://mb19.scout.com/fwestvirginia18066fr...start=1&stop=20

[ March 23, 2006, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: WVUBuff ]

Oh here we go with all the BS again. Recruiting doesn't mean shit. Sorry to have to point that out to people. If it meant anything, why do teams like Michigan, Notre Dame, Penn State, Florida, Alabama, Tennessee etc not win 9 or more games EVERY year.

WVU has built a current top 5 team out of recruiting classes that rank 30+ consistently over the last 4 years and most of the times didn't even rank in the top 4-5 in the Big East. However, they managed to share or win the Big East conference title over the past three years, 2 of which were when the BE still had Miami, Vagina Tech, and Bastard College. Care to explain?

Great Points Derby.

Recruiting rankings mean zero if those recruits don't deliver a superior product on the field come Fall during those October hard hitting Saturdays.


Arguably, WVU had two of the better freshman in recent college football history . Pat White & Steve Slaton led a very young and hungry bunch of Mountaineers to a 11-1 record and # 5 finish behind their freshman sensation speedster running back Slaton and the dazzling elusive magician QB White.

Certainly, Maurice Clarett & Adrian Pederson come to mind. But, Slaton and White of WVU certainly had two of the better freshman seasons in recent memory. Both accumulatedh eye popping stats as both rushed for 1,000 yards in starting just 6 games.

Where were these two phenoms in the class of 2005 rankings? Both were 3 star recruits and not considered a top 100 player. Even though LSU, Auburn, Flordia, and all the major Southern Schools did everything to Get Pat White, he made a decision to leave Lower Alabama for Morgantown.

Hell, White even declined the Califronia Angels and their 300,000 signing bonus in baseball. His passion was to QB at West Virginia where he wanted to play in the Spread offense. An offense that is taking college football by storm as top programs are journeying to Morgantown and consulting WVU's coaches and more specifically Coach RR. White's objective was not to play SEC ball, but Morgantown and play for College football's most innovative offensive wizzard in Coach RR.

Now, as only sophomores, Slaton, White, and up to 6-7 other freshman ( all 3 or 2 stars) that played major roles on the country's #5 team have WVU positioned well for National Championship runs during the course of the next three years Its no wonder why ESPN is televising WVU's spring game & WVU has become the sexy choice ( see article above and below in thread) as many are forecasting a National Championship. With an energetic no huddle high octane offense and with the hard hitting " flip the switch" motto on defense deliving a Big East( Eastern Football) smash mouth football style of play with huge chips on their shoulder. That same chip that delivered a TKO to the SEC champs in Atlanta in the Sugar Bowl. A chip on their shoulder that doesn't bode well for the rest of college football as WVU proudly embraces being the leader of the Big East and carrying its banner delivering this excitting brand of fotoball for all of America to enjoy.

So regarding recruting, WVU would rather win the wars on Saturdays and will leave the "recruiting" victories to UNC and other average programs as they continue their mediocrity with losses of 55 points to Big East schools like Louisville.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewt...pic.php?t=77167

[ March 30, 2006, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: GymMountainEER ]

Hey highheels, just want to point out that VT beat WVU the FIRST game WVU started Pat White as QB AND Steve Slaton as RB (let me remind you they were BOTH freshmen.) I have a sneaking suspicion that had we played VT later in the season, no way in HELL they would have beaten us. Sure it's speculation, but you have to admit those two FRESHMEN (one of which was a true freshman) truly started to develop about 2 games AFTER the VT game at the Louisville game.

The Big East will get back on track. They lost 3 of their best 4 teams to the ACC. Let me also point out, ended up being 3 of the best teams in the ACC. Besides the stolen BE teams and FSU, what does ACC football have now that is worth a damn?

ALL that matters to the current BE is that they keep their BCS bid which is basically safe for another 2-3 years. Makes things nice for WVU since the bastard teams that left the BE will be playing in lower tier bowls and choking to FSU while WVU or Louisville will be in the BCS bowls for the next few years. Hmmm...did I also mention the 2005 BE representative WON their BCS bowl while the ACC LOST theirs.

One more thing...
Another point about WVU's coaching that makes the difference in how recruits and players develop. Mike Barwis is absolutely THE best strength and conditioning coach in college football. He may be WVU's best kept secret. I worked with him when I was at WVU as an exercise phsyiology major and he even surpasses Allan Johnson (who left WVU to be OSU's strength coach) by light years. What he does with the strength program has a HUGE impact on our football team's level of ability.

As anyone understand and follows sports closely, just because the media says it, doesn't actually make it true.

Allegedly, The ACC acquired the Big East's three best football schools in Miami ( hell they would be anyone's best program in any conference), VT, and Boston College.

In examining closer, Boston College was the Big East's 6th best schoool. BC's highest finish before it's first place tie with Syracuse, Pitt, and WVU in 2004, BC's highest finish in the Big East was 3rd place. More times it was a 5th or 6th place finish ( wins over Rutgers and Temple) and because of the Eagles easy non conference schedule, they would be 6-5 and go to some obsucre bowl game in Boise or Motor City bowl. the perception was BC was good because it made bowls, but the reality was it was just a little better than Rutgers and Temple with an occasional upset of WVU, Syracuse, VT, or Pitt in most years.

While Virginia Tech had 2-3 very good years in the Big East, they also were the most ESPN hyped program that was still living off the Vick1 years. VT was just .500 in Big East play its last three years in the conferece. More interesting is VT was a combined 2-7 against Syracuse, WVU, and Pitt in its last 3 years in the Big East.

Lets look at why NOW forecasters are projecting a BOOM for Big East football.

With the addition of UCONN to the Big East football 2 years ago, Huskie football is about to explode in New England. UCONN already has a better attendance of 45,000 ( only its 4th year of D1 football) to BC's 37,000. Also, UCONN plans to expand to 60k and just built an amazing state of the art facility. UCONN 's potential and upside in enormous. BC is a small catholic school with no upside and the city of Boston hardly notices they exisist unless someone mentions a hail mary pass from Flutie 25 years ago. ( My grandfather told me about it LOL). UCONN will prove to New England's #1 choice for football. A state as wealthy and with UCONN's name brand, the sky is the limit.

Louisville and VT is a wash and in the future Louisville looks to probably pass VT based off VT's criminal and unethical interactions and Louisville's improvement. Louisville will have a 64k expansion completed by 2009 on their new stadium.

Also, recruiting for Louisville gets better by the year. Located in a great sports city and rabid support, Louisville is commited to being a top 15 program. Its all around athletic program is already superior to VT's ( same as UCONN's to BC's). Football is already on par and if not for an injurty to Brian Brohm in the Gator Bowl, Louisville would have waxed the thugs from VT.

Louisville should be compete for a national championship possibly next year. Look for the Cards to hang 50 plus on Miami in a rout before a major college football clash with WVU on Nov 1st.


The real issue becomes who replaces Miami? Certainly, Louisville is going to be a program with national respect and top 15 consideration in most years. West Virginia easily IMO is in the process of building this type of program. While in the past WVU has played for 2 national championships in in the last 20 years, It lacked staying power in the top 15 under Don Nehlen yearly.

With Coach RR, its obvious he is going to reload yearly. In Miami'[s last two years 02 and 03 in the Big East, Miami was 13-1 and WVU was 12-2 during that same time. Miami and WVU werwe tied for 1st place in 03. Additionally, an argument can be made that WVU was better in 04 and was certainly better this past season finishing higher than any ACC team at #5.

The real difference is unlike Miami in the past, West Virginia and Coach RR proudly carries the Big East banner. West Virginia is a product of Eastern football. Its tradition was playing in old games in the 50's, 60's, and 70's against PSU, Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers, and so forth against the Marinos, Dorsetts, Jim Browns, Jim Kelly's, and so forth. Its roots are with its Eastern brothers at Syrcause, Pitt, Rutgers, and now with UCONN. These five schools will always be bound to each other and have now made a commitment to never leave. Virginia Tech and Miami were not products of this fraternity. They never understood what this meant. What you see in the conference is unity.


Throw in a surging South Florida program from Tampa fresh off its first bowl game. USF is drawing 45k ( ahead of Duke, Wake, BC, and on par with Miami, GT, NC State, and UNC's attendence) and USF has the ability and ambition to compete with Miami. USF certainly already has created a buzz in Tampa and has an enrollment of almost 35-40k students compared to Miami's very small student enrollment.

Last, throw in Rutgers who garnerd the Highest college football rating for a NYC market in its Insight Bowl contest and the Scarelt Knight Program under Coach Schiano is doing outstanding compared to previous Knight football teams. it was just recently announced Rutgers will expand to a 60,000 seat stadium.

Throw in two old traditional Eastern Powers in Pitt ( who had an outstanding class ) and Syracuse, and you got th emakings of a very good 8 team league that will be beter than previously and sooner than later.

This is why Trangese is having the last laugh and being applauded as hero for discarding Miami & VT to the ACC and picking up schools more in line with the Big East and its mission. With already having a superior basketball product, the forecast is indeed BOOM for the Big East fotoball side.

You will see ESPN now record basketball and football TV contract with the Big East being finalized and ironed out will sing a much different tune. A tune that discusses the fortunes of the Big East and its tremendous upside. The BE weathered the storm. The remaining and new schools are the ones that will be glowing and building a bigger, better,a nd more visable Big East built on integrity after losing three programs that were involved in more scandalous and criminal behavior that anyone ever needs to be associated with ( seems to be par for the course for ACC these days Duke, GT, NC State, BC, and Miami).

The most comical of all, is seeing the ACC's commerical of "fair play and sportsmanship" being their theme the last two years when ACC is involved in competiting. I wonder if the Duke LaCrosse teams thinks similarly, or the BC players that commited, GT's probation, NC State fan gunned down at a tailgate 2 years ago, VT ( enough said), Miami ( enough said), Maryland's past actions, and the Swofford dealings with the BE raid.

Its rather amusing when put into its proper context and one the media is just now starting to report fair and accurately 2 years after the fact where all the other BE teams aready knew the end result is a Strong all around BE sports conference.

[ March 31, 2006, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: GymMountainEER ]

For those who like things such as facts and statistics, here they are. For others, don't argue with me, argue with the numbers:

2005 College Football Sagarin Ratings

1 BIG TEN....................(A) = 80.72
2 ATLANTIC COAST......(A) = 78.96
3 BIG 12 .....................(A) = 78.96
4 PAC-10.....................(A) = 77.92
5 SOUTHEASTERN .........(A) = 75.28
6 I-A INDEPENDENTS .....(A) = 74.44
7 BIG EAST..................(A) = 72.12

Conference Winning percentages against non-conference opponents:
ACC:.......(33-10)....76.74%
Big East: (20-16)....55.55%

Average Schedule Strength of Conference Teams:
ACC........(75.55)....average team rating of 29
Big East...(70.85)...average team rating of 63


Ratings of selected teams:

5 Virginia Tech.(11-2)..............A = 93.07
6 West Virginia.(11-1)...........A = 88.69
12 Boston College.(9-3) ...........A = 85.10
13 Miami-Florida.(9-3)..............A = 84.93
22 Louisville.(9-3).................A = 82.57
23 Florida State.(8-5)..............A = 82.31
25 Clemson.(8-4)....................A = 81.20
31 Virginia.(7-5).....................A = 79.11
33 NC State.(7-5)...................A = 78.87
38 Maryland.(5-6)...................A = 77.27
41 Georgia Tech.(7-5).............A = 76.50
43 North Carolina.(5-6)............A = 75.53
53 Rutgers.(7-5)...................A = 72.60
54 South Florida.(6-6)...........A = 72.48
59 Pittsburgh.(5-6)................A = 72.00
61 Wake Forest.(4-7) ..............A = 71.04
68 Connecticut.(5-6).............A = 69.31
95 Cincinnati.(4-7)................A = 63.15
114 Syracuse.(1-10)..............A = 58.55
133 Duke.(1-10)......................A = 54.17

Note: North Carolina, the 10th best team in the ACC would have been 3rd in the Big East.

ACC: Higher Sagarin Rating, Harder Schedules, Better win percentages, More teams in bowl games, Higher percentage of teams in bowl games

Big East: wishful thinking

[ March 31, 2006, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: HotlantaTarheel ]

It's so funny to see South Florida listed in the Big East. My guess is, in a couple years, they'll be much better. And Cincinnati? It'll just take some adjusting to this new alignment.