Don't believe that Jeter's defense has improved (Rob Neyer, espn.com)

But comparing total chances and/or fielding percentage is not an accurate evaluation of a player's defensive ability---and especially you can't compare a regular (Jeter) vs. a backup (Enrique Wilson, say) because the backup has so many fewer innnings in the field. It's like comparing batting averages of a guy with 50ABs vs. someone with 550ABs. There are many guys who can hit .400 over 50 at-bats, but almost none who can hit .400 over 550 at-bats. (Similarly, outfield assists don't always tell you who has the strongest arm--sometimes a guy with a weak arm gets lots of assists because everybody challenges him.)

I know that several years ago Roberto Alomar's defensive rating was lower than many other second basemen, but I don't think anyone questions Alomar's defensive abilities.

You really have to watch a guy's play in the field. Cal Ripken was not known for his glove. He had the best positioning and the best fielding percentage, but you seldom saw him make the diving plays of Ozzie Smith, say, or Barry Larkin. He didn't have the grace of Tony Fernandez or the strong arm of Shawon Dunston. His defense didn't make the highlight reals like Rey Ordonez. But Cal got the job done.

Jeter gets the job done and he's got a lot of game smarts. Has Neyer even watched a Yankees game? I'm not saying Jeter is a gold glover. But I'd take him on my team any day.

Jeter's got an awesome.....publicity machine. Basically, the guy can do no wrong despite having some pretty basic numbers. Part of it is Yankee domination but move Jeter to KC or any other franchise out of the media market, he is just another good. not great, ballplayer. The guy sticks pins in a Omar Vizquel voodoo doll.

Canmark, the "you gotta see him everyday" line is a non-starter...cuz you can use it to advance anybody's cause! A-Rod's, Nomar's, Edgar Renteria's... All sort of fancy, thoughtful fielding metrics have been devised by seamheads in recent years, and Jeter comes up short in all of them. His range simply isn't there.

Of couse I'd "take him on my team" -- but not for his glove.

Alomar's range factor was slightly below the league average twice in his career--he was never close to the bottom of the league, as Jeter has been consistently. Ripken put up outstanding defensive numbers as a young player, mostly through good positioning and reacting well to the ball.

Defensive numbers aren't a perfectly accurate measure of performance, but when somebody puts up poor ones year after year, something's wrong. If it was only one year, the comparison to a player with 50 ABs might be fair, but if your backups put up better numbers than you every year...

Jeter is a good ballplayer because of his bat, but I'm convinced his defense is overrated. It would be interesting to analyze his response to the ball frame by frame compared to other shortstops.

I'd take Jeter over the likes of Barry Bonds any day; he's one of the top five players in the game.

[quote]Originally posted by canmark:
You really have to watch a guy's play in the field. Cal Ripken was not known for his glove. He had the best positioning and the best fielding percentage, but you seldom saw him make the diving plays of Ozzie Smith, say, or Barry Larkin. He didn't have the grace of Tony Fernandez or the strong arm of Shawon Dunston. His defense didn't make the highlight reals like Rey Ordonez. But Cal got the job done.

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Cal Ripken did not make many errors. Other than that, he was, at best, an adequate shortstop. Granted, error rate is an important ... but it's not everything. I saw him play and he had no range. He was the defensive equivalent of Dave Kingman ... one-dimensional, albeit great in that single dimension, but not an all-around contributor.

I am willing to concede one lasting impact that Ripken had on the game of baseball: he is largely responsible for redefining the position of shortstop as an offensive position. If not for Cal Ripken, big bodies like Alex Rodriguez (6'3", 210lb), Derek Jeter (6'3", 195lb), maybe even Nomar! (6'0", 185lb), would have been moved to other infield positions, likely third, with shortstop manned by the relatively, well, short, like Omar Vizquel (5'9", 185lb) or Jimmy Rollins (5'8", 165lb). Of course, a midget like Miguel Tejeda (5'9", 180lb) is hitting better this season than big-bodied Cal ever did (except maybe '91), so maybe bigger isn't always better.

[quote]Originally posted by JC:
Alomar's range factor was slightly below the league average twice in his career--he was never close to the bottom of the league, as Jeter has been consistently.

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Alomar's range factor was slightly below average yet he was to top defensive second baseman. So how can anyone say that range factor represents defensive ability?

Devon White was the best defensive outfielder I've seen, yet didn't make the highlight reels as often as Griffey or Edmonds or Lofton or Erstad, say, because he wasn't making as many diving catches--but he didn't have to! He just loped over to the ball and put it in his pocket. It's like Cal. You couldn't make a highlight reel of his defensive plays--he only took a step or two in either direction--but he always seemed to position himself to where the ball would be hit.

Even though Jeter may have the lowest numbers of Jeter-Garciparra-ARod, I think he's the most important to his team all around. He's the catalyst for the Yankees. (Granted, this season the catalyst is Soriano.)

Twice in his career, Alomar was below the league average. Most seasons, he was well above it, sometimes leading the league. One season of range factor may be misleading, but when you're close to the bottom of the league for five straight years, it means something.

Devon White was the opposite of Jeter. Jeter makes routine plays look difficult; White made difficult plays look easy. And White had good defensive numbers, too.