It's official. David Stern, tired of seeing the way NBA dess during press conferences and during footage of their arrivals at arenas, has decreed a dress code is in order. Among the taboo items of clothing: sleeveless shirts, shorts, t-shirts, chains or medalions or pendants over clothes (this should cut down on the number of players wearing items from the Joan Rivers Collection from QVC wink ,) or sunglasses indoors (what if their future's so bright, they got to wear shades?) Additionally, headphones will be allowed only in the locker room or on team bus/plane.

Of all the silly things for a commissioner to do...

~Adam

No more Iverson sleeveless? Damn! :mad:

What? Expect them to act like professionals? Like spokespersons for the league? Like role models for young people?

You're right - how absolutely ridiculous...

R

If someone is looking for an athlete, actor or other celebrity to be their role model they are setting themselves up for a fall.

I didn't say it was right, I didn't say it was good. I do say it is fact. Millions of little kids, around the world, want to be like these guys - otherwise the Ad industry would have collapsed in 1921 after Black Sox scandal never to arise again.

There is nothing wrong with demanding that they dress like the professionals they claim to be, not like the pimps, street hustlers, and thugs some of them are.

Besides, they can afford it. And once in a while - just once in a while - every few years, image becomes fact - for just a moment. If some $10 m Johnny of the moment is considering doing the right thing - even just to maintain a good image for his fans for a few more hours - I would rather he do the right thing, even if for the wrong reasons.

No Pity. 20 years Overdue.

R

The NBA has more important issues to deal with than worrying about how it's athletes dress. Making someone who has never had to wear conforming clothes in that profession is just a charade. If the NBA is worried about a hip-hop image they only have only themselves to blame since they went out of their way to welcome that image. All most people care about is that the players play hard and keep out of trouble.

I'd rather see tougher penalties for bad behavior such as fighting instead of a dress code. The players in the Pistons-Pacers brawl who got their suspensions reduced by an arbitrator should not have been able to do so. If I were Stern, I'd tell the players union if they really don't want the dress code they can exchange it for tougher penalties on fights, off-court incidents and such.

Iverson's quote from a couple of weeks ago about the dress code:

Damn right. I hope Iverson does fight it. Demanding that they dress like professionals? Its basketball. Its a sport. This isn't the boardroom of a Fortune 500 company. The way someone dresses is a personal expression of their identity. I think its ridiculous that they impose some sort of dress code to appease "the establishment" I say the players unite and tell the commissioner to take this idea and shove it up his ass. They are grown ass men. I honestly think its a form of institutional racism/discrimination. They know they wanted to send a memo out to all the black players since they're the ones who dress this way. It reminds me of a bar I went to in Maryland in which the dress code was:

no baggy pants
no baseball caps turned sideways
no white t's
no Timberlands
no sports jerseys

They might as well have just put up a sign that said "no negroes" because thats the message that is sent. Sure there are some white kids who dress in such a way but its overwhelmingly black. Hip hop and urban style is a part of mainstream culture. People need to get over it and not everyone who dresses that way is a THUG! Now I personally am a brotha that dresses preppy and can't stand the pants off the ass and the white T look, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna tell a grown ass man how to dress. Iverson is right. Just because a man wears a suit doesn't make him a good guy. Are they supposed to dress up in J. Crew and Brooks Brothers now to appease "the establishment"? Ugh...I really hope the players who dress in the way they are complaining about unite and stand up to this bullshit.

As for people complaining that kids look to these people for role models and this and that. Guess what? That is not that sports star or celebrity's responsibilty. That starts in THE HOME. If a parent doesn't have the sense to raise a child to have their own identity and not look to a celebrity or sports star, etc then thats their own fault. The clothes have nothing to do with it. Its the behavior behind it. I mean good grief OJ Simpson killed his wife and the man she was screwing. Should people stop buying Bruno Magli shoes? PRIORITIES PEOPLE!!!

[ October 19, 2005, 01:33 AM: Message edited by: ltskinmdterp ]

The impression I get when I see a tank top, sideways hat, pants down below his butt wearing guy walking around, white or black...I think, uneducated, doesn't want to follow rules, ignorant, having a "I can do want I want, when I want" type attitude, and rude. It's not a race thing, it's an appearance thing. I can't stand the Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson/Johnnie Cochran/Allen Iverson way of thinking which is "You did that because I'm black"....no, they did it because you look unkempt and unprofessional.

I say keep it.

[ October 19, 2005, 04:48 AM: Message edited by: Merloni26 ]

Institutional Racism? Maybe.

Becasuse if you walk into my office dressed like some hip hop street kid, you gonna get dissed. It doesn't matter wether you are white, black, yellow, pink, or a purple teletubby. If you walk in spouting street hispanic from the barrio, you not gonna get professional respect (even though, depending how good it is, you might pick up a little minimum street cred).

There was another thread here talking about wether people should be required to learn English as part of their immigration and assimilation into amaerican society.

This is part of the same thing.

If you, or your culture, resist adopting the mores of mainstream society, then you will remain marginalized and outside of that society. It has been that way culturally since the beginning of time. If you wish to participate fully in society and have society respect you, you must respect the larger society of which you are a minority, and participate in its conventions.

I agree with Dr Cosby on this subject.

And before someone dismisses me as a white cracker racist - I am more of a heinz 57 mutt than most people I have ever met.

Multiculturalism is GREAT! I highly support it within the context of an overall culture - but there must and will remain common referrents that all minorities acknowledge and deal with as part of a larger inclusive society, otherwise those minorities will continue to be marginalized.

You are right that not everyone who dresses in a suit is a good guy, jeez - look at any newspaper to see the corporate or political scandal of the month to figure that one out. But how we dress, talk, and conduct ourselves has a great deal of influence on how the world perceives us.

I am the last one to ask everyone to wear a corporate uniform; but dress neatly? cleanly? in an appropraite manner? Yes. BTW - most of my employees wear jeans, boots, and polo shirts when they are not with customers (as do I most of the time); 'dress down Fridays' would be an oxymoron around our shop. I have never had to say a word to my people about what to wear. I even have a man who prefers to dress in womens clothes - uh - bad example - he dresses better than most of the office. However when we go before a customer, we play by societies rules and wear appropriate professional garb.

As for the comment "Its a sport. This isn't the boardroom of a Fortune 500 company" You are quite correct - there is more money, publicity, street status, and - dare I say it, even a part of our culture - involved than that.

As for the comment "That is not that sports star or celebrity's responsibilty. That starts in THE HOME." whatever happened to (the African custom BTW) "It takes a village to raise a child"?

BTW - Hip Hop/Urban is NOT the mainstream culture (despite its loud and obnoxious press), it is but a small part of the mainstream in this vibrant multi cultural country and in the world.

R

I think the NBA has the right to impose a dress code if they wish. The players are representing the NBA, not themselves, when they are directly involved in a basketball activity. Plus this is only in affect when the players are going into the locker room, in a press conference, or sitting on the bench. (this is the exact same dress code used by college basketball teams!!) They can still wear their street clothes and bling in their everyday life.
Itskinmdterp, you should be careful when playing the race card--claiming that this is institutionalized racism against blacks. The biggest African-American nightclub here in Atlanta, "Club 112", has a sign outside their door that also states no baggy jeans, t-shirts, ball caps, etc. They obviously haven't been accused of racism--just trying to maintain a level of decorum.

Nope, it's not. But the boardroom pays the bulk of the salaries.

...the perception of the NBA doesn't come from the head office in New York; it comes from Madison Square Garden and the Palace of Auburn Hills and Staples Center and MCI Center. And right now the league's image isn't good. I'm not talking about the perception of NBA players in a hip-hop universe, which the league married itself to 10 years ago; I'm talking about their image among the people who pay for their lavish professional existence, meaning primarily network partners and corporate sponsors. Hip-hop may be the image of the league; by and large it doesn't fund the league.


Please read this entire article here:

There's No Dressing Up Bad Attitudes

Quit whining about "The Man" keeping these millionaires down.

I see nothing wrong with trying to make these
millionaires look professional. With the salaries they make, I don't feel a bit sorry for them. They can dress like thugs at home or when they are on vacation or out clubbing, when working I think they should look professional. IMO.

HOLLA!

If I chose not to go to a game, it might be because yet another player is charged with raping or beating up a woman. Not because Steve Nash wears jeans or Allen Iverson wears a cap or Rasheed Wallace wears a Michael Vick jersey. This looks like a solution seeking a problem.

A few years ago Kareen reflected on the "no-dunking" rule that was put into effect by the NCAA sometime in the 1960s (I believe). At the time he thought it was racist. Several decades later, after his long career and then years into his retirement, he admitted that he no longer thought the decision was racist. He said it was established because coaches, et. al., want to win and thought that would give them an advantage.

There is racism in society. Yet the cry that this decision by the NBA is racist rings hollow. Lawyers, accountants, doctors, nurses, teachers, bankers, sale people at the check-out counter, etc., are answerable to their employers for their appearance on the job and when representing their employer at outside events. The NBA seems to have decided that the arrival/departure, etc., is part of their job and is saying they need to dress in a certain way. If there is an objection, it should be to that.

I don't see the issue, frankly. If this is all the NBA is doing to encourage and enforce professionalism and personal responsibility, then the NBA isn't doing enough. (I will say I appreciate the NBA and the players much more than the NHL regarding tolerance of fighting, so the NBA has done/is doing a lot already.) Yet this in and of itself is reasonable and consistent with the rules of the business, the entertainment business, where players are public figures and as such can expect scrutiny of certain things to come along with the paycheck. Whether you or I like it or not, people form judgments based on appearance. So if you dress like you're 16 "keepin it real" living in the hood, yet you're 25 or 32, making millions a year playing a game, then don't be surprised when people judge you accordingly.

At my previous work, men could not wear earrings and neither men nor women could have tattoos displayed. When we came to work we were expected already to be attired appropriately. And when we went to meetings outside work, we were expected to reflect the company's standards. It happens, it's around, and it's not automatically racist.

Ok Ok...I've had some time to marinate on this and talk with my boyfriend about it and other people who all support the new dress code. Now I already said that I don't care for that style of dress. My nephew is at that stage where he is "finding himself" and I've noticed he's started dressing more 'urban' and I told him that I'm not going to stop him from finding his identity but be prepared to fight the fight because ignorant people judge books by their cover and thats what people are going to do to him. I told him to be prepared for people to make negative assumptions about you because your cap is turned sideways and your clothes are baggy. As I've had time to talk about it more this morning I think its not so much the policy itself, but the way it was presented that I don't like. I mean as a brotha who mostly wears Banana Republic and Ralph Lauren, everyone was shocked I had taken a stance against the NBA dress code policy since I can't stand the "urban" look. The presentation just left a bitter taste in my mouth.

And I do believe I said in my original comments that hip hop is a PART of mainstream culture and not THE mainstream culture so I need no correction on that one thanks I'm quite aware of what is and what isn't. Moving along...I had to think about this in terms of organizational structure and policy. I know that a lot of people think the NBA caters to young, urban people but truth be told without those big banks and sponsors there would be no seats for the fans to sit in. So regardless, it still caters to big business and they've probably had enough of "that style" I mean lets be honest, if they didn't make it to the NBA they'd probably be wearing business casual or some kind of uniform to work. So I mean overall AI needs to just go to Sean John and pay for it. And for all those players who have issue with it I say go to Sean John to get their suits. Don't fatten up Brooks Brothers or Hugo Boss or Armani's pockets. This could actually be a good marketing tool to stay true to their urban roots and support Sean John who has very nice suits and is one of their own.

As for the comment of adopting to mainstream society. Isn't that part of the gay debate? That heterosexuality is part of larger society and isn't that the reason we are marginalized? Because our lifestyle isn't with the mainstream majority. Its funny how some things are ok to stand up for and others aren't.

As for "it takes a village to raise a child" that happens to be the major theme of my speech I delievered as senior class president of my high school. It does take a village, which is made up of immediate family and neighbors, teachers, etc who reinforce a child to have its own identity and not look up to stars for it.

Now, I love a man who is flossed out in a nice suit because I love to dress up. Nothing turns me on more than a clean cut man flossin a fitted Hugo Boss with a windsor knotted tie, but I don't know..just something about the way it was presented left a really bad taste in my mouth.

[ October 19, 2005, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: ltskinmdterp ]

Good point. Many think its a bullshyt way to respond to the Indiana/Detroit brawl.

And I can't stand the ignorant people who judge a book by its cover way of thinking. I can understand the appearance thing but throwing a suit on someone doesn't take the thug away. It doesn't change the attitude or the language. One things for sure...it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[ October 19, 2005, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: ltskinmdterp ]

The NBA isn't a typical corporate office any more than pro sports players' unions are typical of, say, teachers' unions or sanitation workers' unions. To me it's just silly of them to force a dress code on their players. Before I left my job there was a new union contract being negotiated and there was talk that the government was going to try and put a dress code into the new contract, which is utterly stupid because where I worked, our only contact with the public was over the phone. So whether or not I wore jeans wasn't going to make a damn bit of difference.

Who's gay debate? My 'lifestyle' is pretty damn near mainstream - well ok - upper class professional mainstream. My 'debate' is for the same civil rights everyone else has.

Once I get those. I be happy as a clam politically speaking.

OK - I admit there is a debate in the gay communitty about a 'gay and lesbian' lifestyle. In some ways it is truth - when we lived in a ghetto, we developed ghetto ways. In some ways it's BS: It's my belief that the vast majority of gays live virtually normal lives indistinguishable from their neighbors. Once the differences in civil rights are more equalized, I think you will find the vast majority of the communitty will become a part of the multicultural mainstream (a stream that joins with the river as a tributary, rather than a creek that runs a somewhat erratic parallel course and only sometimes overflows its banks to dump into the main river).

C'est la vie.

----------------------------------------

As for "it takes a village to raise a child" that happens to be the major theme of my speech I delievered as senior class president of my high school. It does take a village, which is made up of immediate family and neighbors, teachers, etc who reinforce a child to have its own identity and not look up to stars for it.
----------------------------------------------

Oh - I think it's a far bigger and better idea than that. I think it is important to have our entire society be that village. And part of that training and influence on the child should be what we as a society expect as acceptable behavior.

You are right - ant-violence campaigns are much more important, as are ant- sexism, anti - racism, etc; but that does not mean we4 should stop there - no, that should only the beginning of teaching kids appropraite values and a good work ethic.

R

Am i supposed to be wearing a whole lot of pink? Or just charge up the credit cards for outfits?

Did i miss something in the lifestyle dressing part of the handbook?

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As for "it takes a village to raise a child" that happens to be the major theme of my speech I delievered as senior class president of my high school. It does take a village, which is made up of immediate family and neighbors, teachers, etc who reinforce a child to have its own identity and not look up to stars for it.
----------------------------------------------

Oh - I think it's a far bigger and better idea than that. I think it is important to have our entire society be that village. And part of that training and influence on the child should be what we as a society expect as acceptable behavior.
________________________________________________

What we as society expect as acceptable behavior? Who as society? This country is made up of vastly different cultural lifestyles, backgrounds, and upbringings. Acceptable behavior varies by region and culture and many things are subject to personal taste. Now I'm sure we can agree on the basics such as not stealing, not killing, respecting elders, etc. But, I hope the dress code isn't a part of that. I may not like a certain look but if society didn't like the way I dressed...oh well..kiss my ass....its NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS what I dress like. People who do dress like this don't give a crap if they are marginalized. Its like ooo goodness...I'll be marginalized cuz of the way I'm dressed. Big whoop. They're marginalized ANYWAY for something else. I'm gonna dress how I want to dress ON MY TIME!! In the workplace, I agree that if the company says you need to dress X,Y, and Z then you have to dress X,Y, and Z. But SOCIETY, and their nose up in the air attitude won't sit well with everyone.

It's simple folks...

If the NBA wants to keep it's paying customer/sponsorship base, it has to shed it's "thug" image. This is one of the reasons this sport is slowly dying. People no longer are willing to pay for this image because of the perception it creates (It matters little whether the perception is right or wrong - it's negative, and negative doesn't sell to mainstream America).

Changing it's image will take many "tangible" actions, not only a dress code.

The millionaire "thug" player has choices..

The millionaire "thug" player can step up and accept change - change which is good for the health of the game. And what's good for the game is good for the millionaire "thug" player (especially his wallet and potential bling acquisitions).

Or the millionaire "thug" player can resist, play the race card, whine about infringement of rights, and then what happens is that there aren't corporate sponsors and television revenues to generate the income to pay the millionaire "thug" player salaries.

This is pure economics - the law of supply and demand. Bite the hand that feeds you and there won't be demand.

This is nothing new. They started this process of de-thugging last year when they made Steve Nash the MVP.

I don't agree with the dress code. What happens if somebody doesn't follow it and wears whatever to a press conference?

Mirror image.

I'm suppose to respect them more because they look more "like me"?

A thug in Dockers is still a thug....

NJ

Well some players have already come out and said that the league better be ready to hand out fines cuz many players are strongly opposed to it.

And let me clear this "playing the race card" thing up right quick. This is a term that was created by conservatives who want to negate the fact that racism still exists. I agree that in many instances race has nothing to do with a situation. However, in many instances it does. Now, ANYTHING that is brought up as being possible racism people want to say "oh you're just playing the race card" as to try and say it doesn't exist anymore and its over and we are all equal so it doesn't exist so stop whining etc etc. Now, some people are hesitant to question whether or not something is racist because of this stupid term. SAVE IT!! Especially if you are part of a group who hasn't experienced it and doesn't deal with it on a daily basis. I could go on and on about this and have actually considered writing a book on it. So, I'll just leave it at that.

The players can always kick it with The Professor, Escalade, High Octane and other ballers on The AND1 Mix Tape Tour if they don't like the NBA. They can wear whatever they want. They won't have "the man" telling them what to do. Then again, the AND1 guys aren't getting the kid of jack that A.I. and Stephen Jackson get direct deposited in their bank accounts on a recurring basis.

What's a thug to do?

Hi. This is a gay message board. You know? Homo. Faggot. Queer. Currently under attack by the Religious Right.

Nah we haven't experienced any sort of prejudice in our lives. You're the only one. Carry on, martyr.

Oh, and we're not the one's referring to it being a racial issue. That would be the NBA players. Just so you know. Maybe you should start with them before us.

[ October 19, 2005, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: coyoteugly ]

Forget the dress code -- the NBA has bigger problems.

Are you seriously comparing the gay rights movement with black suffrage? I recall an episode of Queer as Folk when Melanie made it clear to Brian that yes he's gay but he's a white gay man who still has it better than any woman or minority. Oh my lord. Ya know what...I have quite a lengthy and SCATHING response to this but I'm not going to further turn this NBA dress code topic into trying to respond to this so if I could private message you I'd rather prefer it that way or you can private message me if you would like or aol instant message me if you have aol. My address is in my profile.

[ October 19, 2005, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: ltskinmdterp ]

I wonder how many players will just hand David Stern a blank check the way Derrick Coleman did a few yrs back in response to the N.J. Nets team dress code? Any idea how big the fines will be?

African American Suffrage - People were (and still are) treated a horrible way by people who thought they were better simply because they were born a different race.

Gay People - People were (and still are) treated a horrible way by people who thought they were better because they were born a different orientation.

If you take everything out of the equation- the fact that they are pro-athletes, millionaires, etc....

The fact behind the matter is that the management of an organization has the right to require a dress code on your work site in accordance to what they see is fitting.

If you want to work for an organization, you follow rules and requirements that are reasonably asked.... if you have disagreement, then you approach your management and come to a consensus.

All that I have heard aired by the media (and they have used a very small sample)- is how dare they tell a grown man how to dress? It is called being an adult and having a job and following rules. Its as simple as that.

I think the media is obviously showing the extreme viewpoints, but I am betting the majority of players are simply thanking God that they get to play a sport they love for an unreasonably high amount of money and could care less about what will be required for attire on their job....

Amen!

And yes it is true an employer has the right to impose a dress code, but two issues: first, the dress code in the NBA is a team uniform. This policy affects what players wear to and from games. Second, the fact that an employer can legally do something does not make it fair, right or necessary. On my last job I was hired to do one thing, had my job duties expanded to run a whole department and take on 2 other major responsibilities, was paid $20K per year below standard salary, had health insurance eliminated and then they hired a manager to "supervise" me who had literally not one single qualification but he was a friend of the VP. None of this is illegal...

Some teams like the Knicks already had a dress code, and I think the Yankees still have a no facial hair policy, which strikes me as going too far. But no players seem to complain?

My understanding is that the uniform is for game-time only.... that argument does not really hold water- their responsibilites and requirements extend beyond the court- practices, post-game interviews.

If they want them to wear the uniforms all the time, would you consider that unacceptable either?

I think that in the case of Mr Stern, some elements of the dress code could definitely be interpreted as having a racial or cultural bias... the players are probably better off to attempt to get those aspects they disagree with to the players union and come up with a compromise...

I worked for a firm that required suit and tie, but also required that I eat out at lunch every day at a restaraunt with a menu. They wanted me to be seen by clients at nice restaraunts not fast food places. My two cents..the NBA has a right to require dress as they see appropriate.

I've read accounts from individuals that believe this is a racial issue and I can understand that to a degree. We all know skin is skin. I've dated black guys, white guys and everything in between. I couldn't care less about skin color. It is the heart that matters. However, I would be offended if I felt like sports figures and music artists were encouraging my children to dress like prison convicts. Isn't that where the outrage should be?

Ok obviously you're missing the point too. Are you saying that the gay rights struggle is equal to and has more negative consequences than Black suffrage? I mean I don't like to quantify any group being oppressed but lets be clear, black suffrage has far more negative consequences.

[ October 20, 2005, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: ltskinmdterp ]

In looking at the situation I've heard black people and white people say its racist. I've heard black people and white people say its not racist. I don't think its racist PER SE but there are racial variables. The NBA tried to fatten its pockets by tryin to take advantage of the hip hop influence and now it wants a divorce. Bottom line is that the front office has the right to do whatever it wants and the players must abide accordingly if they don't want to be fined or suspended.

Now as much as I don't like the hip hop/urban look I still think that a negative message is being sent to those who do dress like that. I'm glad people like Iverson has made it clear that just because you put a suit on someone doesn't mean anything. Yes, its the fact that you look professional and project a certain image. As far as the individual opinions overall I mean I tell youth who dress hip hop and hear criticism about to shake it off. Who gives a crap if people like or don't like "thug" style? Turn your damn head. Maybe no one wants to look at you and your J. Crew. Dressing is often an expression and result of background, lifestyle, upbringing, socioeconomic status. Just cuz someone has on a white t, baggy jeans, and Timbs doesn't make them a "thug".

I don't have a problem with the dress code, like Kobe said, it's arguing about clothes. :confused:
But what did concern me was the enormous amount of bling the players wore knowing that poor kids will do everything to emulate them.
Sporting jerseys and expensive sneakers aren't enough, kids are gonna want to go the full nine. Young kids esp those already decked out in hip-hop gear have no business wearing flashy jewelry. It's just an invitation for trouble. That will just add to the already negative stereotypical image that's placed on the hip-hop culture.