BillW bit about Bernie Williams reminded me that last year we had a thread about the TV coverage.

I watched most of the Cubs/Braves game last night (on Fox). I never have the sound on, I listen to CD's instead so I can't comment on the announcers, but just from the visuals, same ol' Fox. They seem to think that cluttering up the screen with graphics and not staying on a shot for more than 2 seconds is a good thing. Uh, no. I flipped past an ESPN classic game of Red Sox v. Yankees the other day and it was startling the difference; you know, the actual game was what mattered, not the jiggery-pokery in the production truck.

I fully expect to see "stars" from every Fox show in the stands in Atlanta at some point. Thank goddess that the stick insect known as Calista Flockhart will not be shown wearing a Yankees cap this year.

I'm just glad that I haven't had to piss and moan about Tim McCarver yet. I don't recall him being a commentator during yesterday's Cubs/Braves game, and the Yankees' Game 1 was on ESPN.

Is he still alive? Damn!!!!

It's OK with the sound off, Jim.

My preferred title for this thread would be "Joe Morgan, Knucklehead (Part 933)." He applauded the Braves for having Furcal bunt Hampton over with no one out in the fifth -- "You need to score a run" -- blissfully unaware, it seems, that you *reduce your odds of scoring by doing just that.* He was entertainingly silent when the Braves failed to score.

He fired another thinly veiled (and heavily irrelevant) salvo at his analytical adversaries by saying "You can win a short series by playing well." Wow, really? I think the sabermetric point is it's easier for a weaker team to prevail in a short series than a full season -- that's all.

And in the SF-Fla and Atl-Chi games, ESPN absurdly tried to highlight the value of Ray Durham and Marcus Giles the same way: by showing their teams had .500 records when they didn't play. Among the more stupidly selective stats you can devise, as if a single man filled every spot in the lineup. Covariants, people?

Seems MLB was right in giving Braves-Cubs game 1 the primetime spot on FOX. Ratings were reportedly the highest ever for a game 1 of a Divisional Series.

Can we get some gay boys behind those cameras, PLEASE? :mad: They'll know how to focus on the game alright - and on Javy's hot arms and cute face! eek! Lots of missed opportunities in the camera work. frown

ESPN seems to have all the gay camera operators and directors (at least during the regular season). The Nazis at Fox? Not so much. Too busy inventing new "jiggery-pokery" (tm Jim Allen).

And, yes, games are always better with the sound off and a CD on the Walkman. Dear Color Commentators: Please drink a big tall cool glass of Shut Up. No one cares that so-and-so is batting .350 against left-handed pitchers with big ears and red hair who like their bourbon neat or whatever other nonsensical stats you can come up with.

And I can do without hte URGENCY in their voices! When Jerry Remy does color for the Red Sox network (NESN), it's like having an interesting, mellow baseball guy in the living room with me. There's none of this "HE SWUNG AT THE BALL!!" routine. (Remy did say on the air once, "There's nothing like good weed." )

Jim Allen mentions how different--and pleasurable--it is to see a game from the past on ESPN Classic, where play-by-play annoucers let the game progress without constant yakking. This is also the case with radio-broadcast games. I had the opportunity to hear some of the games from the late-'70's and early-'80's and was amazed at the limited role played by the announcers--they would often just let the ambient game noise fill the airwaves. I still prefer to listen to games on the radio than to watch the games, but when I do watch, it's with the sound off.

~Adam

Ha! I think I'd like Jerry Remy (I seem to remember he was a good player too). Most announcers just drive me up the wall for reasons that Dwb56 outlined. The Angels TV color guy is Rex Hudler. To say that he's wired and intense is to understateme the meaning of those words. To say he works the f**k out of my last good nerve is also an understatement. So, imagine the guffaws when he was busted for pot on a road trip late in the season this year. My pal that I go to Angels games with and I were incredulous; if he's a pothead, where's any evidence of chill on Rex Hudler. We were in hysterics when, in the expected mea culpa that he issued, he explained that he toked so that he could unwind after games. Dude, you should have lit up beforehand. My pal and I now call pot "Rex".

I love English soccer and watch it when I can on Fox Sports World. They get the feeds from Sky Sports in England; they're both owned by Murdoch. I *LOVE* the British announcers, especially Martin Tyler, largely because they don't chatter like insane chimps on speed all the time. You know, I have working brain cells, I can see that Ryan Giggs just passed the ball to Paul Scholes, I don't need a blow-by-blow account. What I want is team news, history of the rivalry, atmosphere. I've noticed in the last few years though that they're becoming a bit more stats obsessed. A worrying trend, that.

And speaking of stats.....lawdy, a little of them goes a long way. Now, I used to be a stat-head in high school but as outlined above, it's gotten absurd. And the announcers just drone on and on and on and...with them. Shut. up. I'm beggin' ya.

Oh, and there's no need, none whatsoever, for 3 people in a booth for a sporting event. NONE. See: the truly abysmal Sunday night NFL crew.

I'm not digging David Justice in the booth, either. Last night during the instant classic A's/Red Sox game he kept undermining the rising tension by babbling about whatever irrelevant thought popped in his head. Shaddap already.


I know, right? Last night ESPN talked about the high winning percentage of Red Sox games when Todd Walker homers. Oops. Guess they won't bring that stat up again this series...

The only ex-baseball jock employed by ESPN or Fox who gives consistently intelligent analysis: Bobby Valentine.

[ October 02, 2003, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Bill W ]

Why are the 4 pm games today and tomorrow on ESPN2 so the main network can show golf??? Ridiculous.

That's easy: a contrived tournament featuring Tiger Woods.

[ October 02, 2003, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

You're kidding, right? I remember him discussing Mike Piazza, and I couldn't help but wondering if maybe his judgment wasn't just a bit clouded. Don't remember what he said, but I found it difficult to accept his opinion with the obvious conflict of interest present.

I like Harold Reynolds. He's hip, smart and funny, and always gives good analysis. And he does his best to keep Peter "No Lips" Gammons' blather to a minimum.

What joy. The awful Joe "I thought you were gay?" (tm Rod Stewart)Buck and the truly fingernails-on-the-chalkboard Tim McCarver are doing the Twins v. Yankees tilt.

And I don't have to hear a peep from them thanks to the mute button.

Edited to add:

Geez Fox, lay off the Pore Cam, will ya? I don't need the camera zoomed in so tight--and then held for what seems like a thousand eternities--on a players face, zoomed so tight that I can count the pores. Oh, and while you're at it? The jumping from one angle as the pitcher winds up and, then, in the middle of the windup cutting to another? So annoying, that the English language doesn't contain a word sufficient to convey the annoying-ness of it.

[ October 02, 2003, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

Oh I agree. That adorable face and killer smile. Not to mention when he plays with his cup before every pitch. Of course if they did, I'd watch the whole game with a bottle of lube.
And like everyone else, the games are much better with the sound off. They can never seem to talk about the player while he's at bat. And they're constantly talking about the other teams and players who aren't playing in the game. :mad:

Well, that's pretty damning. You didn't follow the Mets too closely if you think the BV-MP relationship was entirely buddy-buddy. But just take such issues into account, like every other ex-player / manager's conflicts. It's why I shut my ears whenever Bobby V praises his ex-boss The Shrub.

Harold Reynolds is a handsome, fairly charming guy. His comments are almost always a morass of cliches. When he was being ganged up on earlier this year for his indefensible choice of Derek Jeter as "the best player to start a team with," his layered defense was "He's just the best."

[ October 03, 2003, 07:11 AM: Message edited by: Bill W ]

I have to agree about Harold Reynolds. He really adds nothing of importance to a broadcast.

I love it when Bill W. gets on a roll.

I was trying to do the same thing with Yankees/Twins game last night. Tim McCarver and Joe Buck are just morons. Man, do I miss the days of NBC! Those two just talk about things that no one else even gives a damn about. I don't care about the Twins favorite restaurants, nicknames, or when they go to the toilet. I just want to get baseball coverage. Unfortunately my stereo couldn't pick up the AM signal so that I could just ignore these two idiots!

Ditto on Buck's antics especially (and what a HIP guy, Big Country is his fave band... of 1984?).

We have to remember what the prime-time audience Fox is trying most to capture with postseason baseball: Non-fans. (That's where the numbers are.)

I wonder how many fans prank-called that restaurant's reservation hotline last night. I know I was tempted. Jeez, what is this, the Little League World Series? Is FOX gonna give us the players' favorite movies next? When do we get Jacque Jones' opinion on Bennifer? Enough already with all the techno-doodads and meaningless bullsh*t factoids overwhelming the screen! At least I watched last night's game in a bar, so no McC crap was heard.

[Aside. This bar in Queens was mobbed with Yankee fans, but one guy was wearing...a Red Sox cap. Because Yankee fans are just so damn cool, the (cute) Boston guy got beers bought for him half the night.]

Oops. Well, I'm no expert. Maybe my judgment is clouded by Reynolds' genial good looks...

I know what you mean! Even though he completely pisses me off by taking down my Yankees (almost daily), I cannot help but laugh at his "in your face" approach. Maybe I am glutten for punishment?

I couldn't believe when I saw that. It was like Tigerbeat had taken control of the telecasts. Woops, mighta dated myself there, gotta watch out for Bill W.! Jim Allen: A man who's favorite band peaked in 1974!

But see, the kind of stuff that FeverDog ripped: I'll never be convinced that it draws in or keeps "casual" fans. I just can't believe someone that doesn't like baseball will watch, so a "casual" fan will at least have the basic knowledge of the game, the teams playing etc. It's just clutter and crap aimed at 12 year-olds with ADD; what pisses me off the most is that they show almost contempt for the product they're covering, that the games alone aren't enough to hold interest. It's the same mentality with f**king NBC and their *ghastly* Olympics coverage. I don't give a fig about how high the ratings are; NBC with their soft lit/tinkly piano music "Up Close and Personal" profiles are an abomination that should be smote from the TV sports landscape.

McCarver sure does like to hear himself talk, doesn't he?

McCarver bugs me sometimes, but he occasionally has said things about in-game tactics that I haven't heard before, which distinguishes him from Steve Lyons David Justice Joe Morgan Rick Sutcliffe Tom Seaver Bobby Murcer... shall I go on?

What's most annoying is when broadcasters don't bring up things that are obvious topics to a viewer, ie, whether Mueller might've had a shot at throwing out Hernandez on the bunt, and how obviously the Yankees' up-the-middle defense just plain sucks.

Look on the bright side, John Maddon only does football.
BTW-Did anyone else get sick of seeing Kerry Woods wife on TV. Just what sport were they covering anyway?

Well, for once, I didn't mind the Pore Cam. They zoomed in on Mark Prior and, um, he has lovely skin. And since his So Cal tan is gone, he's quite the babe. Too bad he pitched for USC.

I actually like Buck Martinez the best. I wish ESPN would use him for even more games. He also does many of the Orioles games throughout the season. If it wasn't for Martinez, the telecasts with only Michael Reghi and Jim Palmer would be absolutely unbearable to watch. I thought he was a pretty good manager in Toronto, too.

It's bad enough that the undeniably charming and entertaining Mr Willis is going to undeservedly beat Brandon Webb for Rookie of the Year, but ESPN just couldn't shut up about him or his Welder Mom even after he huffed himself out of the game on the basepaths. Someone in the stat department didn't get the script, cuz when they put up a graphic that DW had a 4.60 ERA post-All-Star break (2.08 pre), it went blithely unremarked upon. I *know* he's a marketing squad's wet dream, but can we pay a little attention to his results now and then? The saving grace about the Cubs facing Florida is that Fox can siphon some Dontrelle Time over to the drunken Wrigley Faithful.

I was watching the Cubs v. Braves at a friend's house yesterday. He insists on having the sound on and the play-by-play guy drove me nuts. At one point he said something like "Dusty Baker and his Giants are going to the championship series!" or something schoolboy-errorish like that.

Tim McCarver's voice is the equivalent of someone rubbing their hands on a balloon.

And that strike zone graphic things bugs the crap out of me too. It adds nothing to the game as we can see where the pitch was in relation to the strike zone most of the time. More jiggery-pokery.

Sadly I feel I have to have the sound on for baseball. While I am pretty good on the rules of football and basketball is like second nature to me, I just don't know baseball well enough to watch it without some commentary. So this weekend I had my fill of Tim Mccarver, etc., but I will say that ESPN's coverage to me was better than Fox by a mile.

That's why I'm here, rob. wink

Didn't you love when the Foxies spent the first 3 innings noting that the batters can't SEE a thing, without mentioning "And it's all because TV dictates the game time?"

I dove to mute the TV in favor of ESPN Radio when Steve Lyons told us that the Red Sox were a unified team because they shaved their heads.

[ October 07, 2003, 07:06 AM: Message edited by: Bill W ]

From the "Stop Babbling, Steve Lyons" file:

n the final game between the Braves and Cubs, Lyons mentioned that Eric Karros is of Greek descent and mentioned his family's name before they changed it to Karros, adding "if he had kept the name, he'd be really popular in Chicago's Greektown." Joe Buck (who should also stop babbling) chimed in: "I'm sure he's popular there anyway." Then, this from Lyons: "With Karros and Grudzielanek, they use up the entire alphabet signing autographs." When Lyons dropped his pants on the fiels a few years back, maybe some brains escaped?

Fox has added Al Leiter to its upcoming NL championship series coverage and Bret Boone (whom I think looks like one of Disney's Seven Dwarves) to its AL coverage.

~Adam

Am I the only one that is pissed off about Fox (and Selig) scheduling BOTH games tomorrow night at the SAME time (on the SAME network) meaning it will be impossible for anyone to watch both Game 2 of the Cubs-Marlins AND Game 1 of the Yanks-BoSox series?....this is just another example of Selig almost single-handedly trying to ruin our National Pasttime....he is literally selling out the sport for the "almighty dollar" and proving once again that he doesn't give a damn in the least about the fans who are paying their hard earned money (IN SPITE of Bud, not BECAUSE of him) to keep the game alive!

Can anyone even fathom the NFL scheduling both the NFC and AFC Championship games at the same time on the same network just to get a more lucrative television contract?....of course not!....but since Ruport Murdoch's boys at Fox paid MLB several hundred million dollars for the exclusive rights to televise the league championship series and World Series, Selig obviously figured he would cave in (not that any of us thought he actually had a backbone or any balls either, for that matter) to meet WHATEVER demands they asked for, the fans be damned! :mad: ....how sad! frown

It's not like Fox has a lucrative afternoon soap opera to preempt. They could easily have one game on in the afternoon.

Edit to add: apparently FX is showing a game as well. Are they going to try to coordinate this so that whatever game you see on Fox, the other one will be on FX? Wouldn't it be easier to have one game exclusively on Fox and the other exclusively on FX (with the only exception being in the cities whose teams are involved)?

[ October 07, 2003, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]

Kerry WOOD. Woodie. I didn't mind seeing his wife, who supposedly has gotten his *ss into shape. Not another bimbo/gold-digger. She seemed as in it as he was. Dontrelle Willis's mom looked like she could go out there and hit a few triples herself.

I know it's not the right thread, but damn, Chicago and Florida's teams have lots of sexy players!

The idiot newscaster on Fox (Channel 12) here in Chicago just said, "Prior and Wood. I don't understand how you can go out and win 4 games with two great pitchers." HELLO? The sportscaster at Wrigley answered, "Well, you can...." Duh! Keep the regular newscasters FAR away from sports!

Where did you happen to hear this Joe?....from what several sports media outlets (nationally and locally) have been saying BOTH games will ONLY be on FOX and they will cut in for "highlights" of the one that is not being shown in your local area as events warrant....even Wednesday night's television guide indicates FX is showing some movie and not either game....I'm sure we'll get the NY-BOS game here in DC but I KNOW there will be a LOT of pissed off Cubs fans that will be upset about not being able to see their team (at least for game 2 anyway)....I don't even think satellite/DirecTV will help in this instance because both games apparently are on the "regular" Fox broadcast network and not the regional FoxSportsNet stations (or pay per view either, for that matter).

If it's any consolation, though, tomorrow is the ONLY day when both league championship series will be played at the SAME time since travel days, weekend games, and even next Wednesday 10/15 (if both series go that far) lists a scheduled 4:15PM starting time for ALCS Game 6 and 8:15PM starting time for NLCS Game 7....perhaps it's not as bad as I initially thought (excluding tomorrow night's inexcusable fiasco ) but I certainly don't retract my statements about that idiot Bud Selig who is supposedly "leading" the sport.

While I don't want to go on record in a public forum as defending Bud Selig, I'd say that when Fox says "Jump", Beelzebud says "How high?".

What a fiasco this is. But the ratings are high. Any complaints will be met with "See, the ratings are doing great, what's the problem?".

How good was Al Leiter in the booth last night? He even made me tolerate Steve Lyons.

I agree, Al Leiter was excellent, he didn't talk too much, but he called the game well. And Fox had good camera angles, the two balls hit over in the right field corner, one fair that Sosa barely missed and one foul that hit the wall first, were clear on replays. And the replay of Sosa's home run leaving home plate and landing on the street was incredible, even though the Marlins won that was the highlight of the game, and Fox to their credit captured it.

I don't know if this applies in all markets but here in Los Angeles, the NLCS is on "regular" TV, Fox channel 11, while the ALCS--the one I'm interested in most--is on the cable station FX.

Today's paper reports that 58% of the country will see the Cubs-Marlins on FOX network while only 40% will see the Yanks-Sox. I guess the other 2% will get to see That 70's Show or Cops!

I'll bet Herr Steinbrenner must be fuming! But I'm not sure that the Cubs-Marlins has more national appeal than the Yanks-Sox. When FOX chose to air Cubs-Braves over Twins-Yanks in ALDS, it made sense. But this time, I'm not so sure.

Sounds like the right proportion to me, when you consider the Cubs are the only superstation team still alive, and that Chi-Fla involves TWO different areas of the country, while only the Northeast is religious about NY-Bos.

Still, simultaneous games suck.

Which leaves 0% tuned into tonight's opening games of the NHL season. That sounds about right!

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the great job Tony Gwynn did in the booth during the Marlins/Giants series. He sure knows a thing or two about hitting, and he sounds like the kind of guy I'd love to sit next to at a ballgame – not too heavy on the stats but lots of "what's going on in this hitter's head," plus he has that nice, soft drawl in his voice that borders on pillow talk. Then again, it was amazing that he managed to get a single comment in at all, since the announcer sitting next to him was Chris "Let's See If I Can Make One Long Run-On Sentence Last for Nine Innings" Berman. Someone! Please! Yank that man's tongue out of his big head! (Joe "Hitman" in Philly, are you accepting new contracts these days? wink )

If you look at the breakdowns of the cities that are getting each game, it tends to make a little more sense. It is more broken down into American League or National League cities as who gets which game on their major FOX affiliate. For example, Minneapolis and Kansas City are obviously geographically closer to Chicago, but are getting the Yankees/Red Sox game. Pittsburgh is geographically closer to New York, but is getting the Marlins/Cubs game.

Breakdown is like this according to FOX Sports.
Boston at New York markets include: Baltimore, Boston, Buffalo, Charlotte, Cleveland, Columbus, Detroit, Greensboro, Hartford, Kansas City, Minneapolis, New York, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Portland, Providence, Raleigh, Richmond, Seattle, Tampa, Washington DC (YEA!)

Florida at Chicago markets include: Atlanta, Austin, Birmingham, Chicago, Cincinnati, Dallas, Dayton, Denver, Fort Myers, Greenville, Houston, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Knoxville, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Louisville, Memphis, Miami, Milwaukee, Nashville, New Orleans, Oklahoma City, Orlando, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Sacramento, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, San Diego, San Francisco, St. Louis, West Palm Beach

The only two cities that surprise me are Dallas and Portland.

[ October 08, 2003, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Cattledog ]

It looks like we'll be getting both games in Toronto: the Yankees-Red Sox game on the Fox station in Buffalo; the Fox broadcast of the Cubs-Marlins game shown on Canadian sports network Sportsnet. Local sports radio will also broadcast the Cubs-Marlins game.

At least I watch "Nip/Tuck" on F/X, so I can find the channel very quickly while there is a commercial break in the Boston/New York game.
Oh, and please send Tim McCarver and Joe Buck to Chicago, and not New York!