Just crossed the wire....Lebron James has been found ineligible for the rest of his high school career for accepting two jerseys worth over 800 bucks from a sports good store....he pushed it a little too far...sounds like he was trying to get outta playing the rest of the season...

So is he going to quit school and declare for the draft?

If so, will he still be a top pick or will teams shy away from him?

According to news reports, he would have been ineligible for the NCAA anyway based on summer lodging last year during basketball camps.

Sad to see this... if you ask me, an 18 year old is not ready socially/emotionally for the NBA and the spotlight, no matter how much talent they have. Even Michael Jordan went to college! I hope this trend of high schoolers going directly to the NBA stops soon. MLB allows high schoolers to be drafted, but rarely do they step directly into the limelight of pro sports. In the NFL it doesn't happen, but it might soon. Not sure about the NHL, but I think it is much like MLB as far as high schoolers.

I think that Ohio Athletic Association did the right thing in declaring him ineligible. The fact of the matter is that he is still a high school player (just like everyone else, regardless of how talented he is) and the rules should apply to him the same as everyone else. Other high school players and their parents would be outraged, if he was allowed to get away with this. As far as the Hummer is concerned, that situation was cleared earlier this week. It was proven that his mother, and not some outside source, purchased the vehicle for him. This kid is receiving the wrong advice from the adults around him. He needs to surround himself with more level headed, and not greedy, manipulative, self-serving, adults.

The coach at Akron St. Vincent/St. Mary's says THE MEDIA CREATED THE PROBLEM BY putting Lebron on a pedestal and letting him 'Be Enticed' ???

For those out of this area - St. V's had no problem playing their home games at University of Akron, downtown Cleveland's Cleve State, (30 miles away)... setting up a schedule traveling all over the U.S., charging $15 per game. They only played two home games at their tiny (900 seat) gym, and that was only cuz the student body insisted, so they had two games for just the current students of the school.

My School Canton McKinley was due to play them Feb 2 (yes SUNDAY... another media hype CREATED BY THE SCHOOL in question)

But Kobe Bryant didn't go to college, and he seems to be doing okay. wink

Kobe's father also played professional basketball and Kobe's upbringing was MUCH more diverse than King James' has been....

Kobe could speak Italian after living in europe for years....LeBron can barely form full sentences after living in a one bedroom apartment in Akron, Ohio....

There's a bit of a difference.....

The NHL has many young players w/o finishing high school! I think Major League sports should look at WTA "Burn-Out" as a clue to the situation! Kobe might have been groomed for the NBA but the LAKERS made it a slow learning procress for him! Certain NBA teams don't have that luxurary! To put an age cap for anybody over 18 is probrably illegal! Just my oppinion!

The number of NBA players who succeeded in making the direct transition are very limited. When you look across the league, only Kobe, Kevin G, and Tracy M have really lived up to their hype. I agree that the NBA (starting to suffer a little from dilution of talent) should think about limiting early entry into the NBA. Other than the media hype, they are not in need of these young players. Most of the outstanding high school players will be even better after a couple of years of college play. It is not like there has been a high school player who has been "too good" for the NCAA.

In the LeBron situation -- it is a shame the young man has been in the environment around him. Buying your 18 year old son a Hummer with 3 televisions and video games when you are unemployed is really not demonstrating good decision-making to your son. No wonder it seemed like no big deal to accept the jerseys. And his high school has really taken advantage of his stardom. I feel badly for his teammates, but I think his school's officials helped contribute to this problem.

I know that it is a little pie-in-the-sky, but I wish more parents/adults would take lessons from the thousands of parents who have star athletes but keep them more even-keeled. For every LeBron James, there are hundreds of other athletes whose parents encourage them to stick with school, make wise choices, and not get taken advantage of by the adults around them. For every Chris Webber who breaks the rules and then tries to squirm out of responsibility for that, there are athletes like Steve Smith who is still greatly respected, has his college degree, and gives back to his community and school to honor his mother who helped him remain true to himself.

I don't agree with people making LeBron out to be some helpless kid being misguided by others. He's been in the middle of some of these poor decisions he's made as well. When at a basketball camp last summer, he purposely showed up late to a newsconference just to make the reporters wait for him (he even said that). He also does stuff such as wearing Nike apparel to Adidas camps and Adidas apparel to Nike camps. He also goes around wearing shirts that say "King James". So yes, he is being misguided by his mother and companies, but he is also buying into that and taking advantage of it himself. I don't really feel sorry for him at all.

The author of today's "Jock Talk" wondered how a jersey (or two jerseys) could cost $845. Good question. Am I wrong when I guess that they are made in SE Asia? Possibly there is as much as $10 workmanship in each of them. How can a replica sell for that much?

And Jermaine O'Neal. But in the case of O'Neal and McGrady, both became stars after they had left the tream that drafted them.

None of the above were stars in their rookie season, so certainly a year or two of college (or life) couldn't have hurt.

I think the NBA needs a minimum age or they're going to end up like MLB, where teams are signing 16 year old (and younger) Dominicans and such.

I certainly did not intend to imply that I thought LeBron was an innocent party in all of this. However, at that age, most people take cues from the adults that surround them in regard to appropriate decision-making. If your unemployed mama is taking out a $50,000 loan and your high school is signing a pay-per-view television contract for your games, you are getting some really screwed up messages.

Not to say that he could not have stepped in and said he thought that people were making too big a deal. Just pointing out that this is not about a situation where a young man is rebelling and going against those who are advising him.

Actually, a Philadelphia company makes them and sells them wholesale for $150-$175. And a few weeks ago when the LeBron James Magical Mystery Tour hit town, he was at the company's retail store....
See, LeBron? You should've helped out the Philly economy like any good tourist. But nooooooo....

Erm, is this guy any good? I've purposely avoided watching him play so far. There was no way I was going to Pauley Pavilion to watch a high school player, but of course UCLA has blurred the distinction this year, so.....

Is he going to be one of those guys that won't be able to adjust to the much more physical NBA game? There was a bit in the Los Angeles Times quoting one of his "friends" that "LeBron won't play for Cleveland. He really liked John Lucas and was really upset when they fired him". The retort was: He has 3 options: 1) Drive the Hummer to some campus that will take him; 2) Play in Europe for peanuts or 3) Go to whatever team takes him for the first 5 years of his career. Ha!

I think this is all going to end in tears.

Nah Jim...King James is gonna transition to the NBA just fine...he's definately a ManChild...has the physical attributes that's need in today's league...for a kid whose mama was never around, someone was feeding this dude something...that's part of the reason he dominates so in high school ball...and he can only get bigger as that muscle matures and strength coaches start working with him....kinda like Chris Webber was when he was at Detroit Country Day...

It's not the physical that he needs to worry about...it's the mental/emotional part that needs to catch up with the body....

Pretty nice clothes for a kid living in government housing

Final Score - Akron St. V.'s - 63
Canton McKinley - 62

Guess the number one team in the U.S.A. struggles minus one player !

let me add some more fire to this debate....

how come when 18 yr old ADULTS consider going to the NBA directly out of high school I keep hearing "he's not ready for it. he's not ready for it" "what about his education?" etc etc

but then when 13, 14 year old kids consider turning pro to play tennis we never ever hear the "not ready for it" and the "needs more education/school" question?

Could it be because those turning pro for the NBA are black and those turning pro for tennis are mostly white?

Don't we have to worry about white kids being deprived of education too? or are we assuming that only black kids are educationally deficient?

there is a huge difference between 13 yr old children (i.e. Jennifer Capriati, Martina Hingis, Kournikova) and 18 yr old adults such as LeBron. why is it that we level the "maturity" and the "lack of sufficient education (aka.. we think you're dumb)" charges at legal adults when we don't bring it up with pre-pubescent teens?

Just what are we saying and what are we worried about really?

Enquiring minds want links.
http://www.retroshoestore.com/mitchell-and...l-and-ness.html
http://www.mitchellandness.com/AboutUs.htm
and many more.

Me, I'll wait fo them to show up at a yard sale or thrift store. Twenty-five cents is as much as I like to pay for something like that.

Could be. On the other hand, fewer people follow pro tennis than pro basketball so it won't get the same attention level.

I don't believe it is a black/white issue, could be more of a USA educational system vs the European system. Although most of the girls in the late 70's and early 80's were all from USA. Go Figure? Interesting board for sure!

like you said, it's not an issue of education.

Capriati was a new Yawkah and is definitely NOT the brightest bulb in any room.

Perhaps it is more of a team sport versus individual sport. In tennis at that early of an age, you have parents/guardians traveling with you and looking over everything. My guess is that with kids like LeBron, he will be tossed into an arena of adults and be forced to make his own decisions and grow up much faster.

A little more education and a couple more years of experience will make a world of difference when going from high school to the NBA. The young tennis stars seemed to get taught things they need to know as they go (with they parent/guardian overlooking).

Just a thought....

again.... these are 18 year old adults we're talking about (at least when it comes to Basketball) and many times when graduating from high school they're even older than that.

at 18.. you're an adult. They're are plenty of 18 year olds who live on their own, have a career and/or a job, have children, have a family. How many times do we hear that if you're 18 you should move out of your parents house and live on your own.

so you're telling me that 18 year olds may be mature enough to be husbands and fathers but not mature enough to play basketball?

how about this as another angle. Right now much of the basketball "machinery" (AAU coaches, High school coaches, college recruiters, recruiting services, "hangers on", college boosters, college coaches, sports writers) make their living based on the best players going through the NCAA. If the best players go directly to the big leagues (like they do in baseball, tennis and soccer) then the whole college basketball and football system becomes irrelevant. and reverts to the system we have in the ivy leagues for example.

meaning.. many people lose the big bucks....

could that be another reason why we are trying to preserve the "college as a necessary education to the pros" angle? cuz let's face it. no one is trying to pretend that big time college sports is about getting a college degree anymore.

since this thread has already been hijacked beyond repair (lebron, remember him? 17 year old kid with a team of lawyers fighting a suspension, no visible means of support, and a wardrobe a vogue model would drool over...), i'll add my two cents.

i think the issue is driven by the respective sports and their historical norms, but it is hard to say, because we are comparing apples to oranges -- two very different sports with their own historical norms.

the historical norm for a professional basketball player is to go to college (hypothetically get a degree), hone one's skills (which in a team sport can be done only in a regimented, organized fashion), mature physically, intellectually, and emotionally, then move on to the pro ranks. when that historical norm is challenged, people balk. to determine if the reaction is also gender driven, we need to wait for some female phenom to go from high school directly to the wnba and see if the world says, "too young, too immature". my guess is the reaction will be the same as it has been for lebron, for the same norm will have been challenged.

now among professional tennis players, women especially, the norm is to get good enough for the tour in some country club (or public court in compton), and join the tour when ready, around 16, 17, or 18. when the likes of traci austin, carling bassett (remember her?!?) and andrea jaegger came along and challenged that norm, the reaction was, indeed, "too young, too immature". and the wta codified the norm by setting an age limit for full-time tour players.

if there is a double standard, race isn't the driver, gender might play a role, but i feel any double standard is sport specific.

Ung, I was not saying that LeBron is not mature enough to play ball at 18 years old. What I was saying is that at 18, diving in head first to the lifestyle of a pro basketball player is a MAJOR step. There are TONS of pitfalls that can happen when you get that amount of fame and money together. That doesn't happen to normal 18 year old husbands/fathers. Sure, they have their own pitfalls, but if LeBron isn't careful and mature enough to handle all of the "stuff" that comes along with playing in the NBA, he might not be ready and a few years of college experience might do him good.

Now, I am not suggesting that the few years of college is helping due totally to the education side of college. NO, it is more due to the experience of life and such that he'd gain.

And personally, I think he asked for all of the trouble he is getting now with the ineligibility. If he hadn't gotten the Hummer and been cute with it (i.e. mocking the situation by playing with a radio controlled Hummer toy), then I don't think this whole deal with the jerseys would have been this big. He put a big target on his head when he accepted the Hummer.

thersis ok... with all due respect, what are you talking about?

my posts were specifically in reference to the Lebron James affair and why we get worked up that an 18 year old adult is turning pro. I never hijacked the topic from the original point of James losing his status and turning pro.

as far as a codified norm to play pro tennis limiting the age to turn pro. you're wrong on that issue also. yes there is a limit as to the maximum number of tourneys that, for example, a 14 year old can play on the WTA. But there is not rule that says that 14 year old can not turn pro. and for the comments that parents can help guide a youngster of 13 yrs or so. I suppose that could be true. But as we have seen with Dokic, Capriati, Williams etc... sometimes the parents have bigger problems handling the pros than the teens do.

Carling Bassett-Seguso.. yes I remember her. I met her. I also remember that when Austin (with her pig tails) and Bassett (daughter of a canadian mogul) were on the scene, people did not cry out "too young" like they do about B-Ball players. Austin was called "america's sweetheart"
does that sound like they were trying to get her to go back to middle school?


also I never implied that it's a gender thing. The current men's No.1 in tennis, Lleyton Hewitt, was 16 when he won his first pro tourney. a full two years younger than LeBron. Where were the outcries then that Hewitt was too young or
immature? or for that matter, where was all the worrying that Dirk Nowitzki would not be mature enough or not get his education when he decided not to go to college? How much "education" do you think Dajuan Wagner got in his one year at Memphis University (gave his dad a job as an assistant coach by the way.. no connection I'm sure.... he he) before going pro after one year?

as for your assertion that team sport skills can only be honed within the confines of a college setting..... what do you think all the farm clubs are doing in baseball and hockey?

perhaps it's better if those who can play in the pros DO go into the pros and let college sports be what it was originally meant to be. inter-collegiate athletics played by college students. not a vovational school/farm system for the NFL/NBA.

[ February 04, 2003, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: ung ]

gomonica. I agree with you.

James did act like an idiot. not in saying that he's gonna go pro. but in saying that his non-working mother would on her own merit get a loan to buy a $60,000+ auto. among other idiot things.

let's face it. James doesn't care about losing his eligibility. he was gonna go pro. no doubt about that. and so what that he can't play high school hoops no more. The everybody was making money off his High school games (espn broadcast, sold out venues etc) except for him and his family.

who gets all the money for ESPN carrying a high school game just because James is playing in it?

All this does is get him even more visibility and in the minds of the NBA scouts.

Lebron's back in ... a judge cleared him to play the rest of the season, after sitting out one more game -- saying otherwise it would cause "immediate and irreparable injury"

"irreparable injury"??? oh puh leeze!!!!

Temple coach John Chaney on LeBron James:
\"...the truth is that this kind of thing has been going on forever, and nobody ever said a word about it until it involved a black basketball player."

An interesting article.

interesting article..... and in many ways... my points exactly. Like I had done, Chaney brings up Capriati, Chang as well as all the child actors and other famous children.

the big picture is...... people like Lebron James are better off skipping college. The promises of the NCAA to give college players a couple of thousand dollars as stipend for playing ball? Oh please!! what's a couple of thousand compared to millions?

It's like this (keep in mind that I love Rick Pitino) But he makes $2.5 million per year from the university alone coaching Louisville. The University makes several million more.
In the mean time, the University president makes $500,000 and the players themselves? They make nothing.

yeah yeah yeah.. they get a college scholarship. But don't you think that if they were playing pro ball they could AFFORD to pay the 20K for tuition? and this way they won't have to miss class for roadtrips and special practicies.

Let's everyone be upfromt about what's real and what's really going on.