The WNBA limits what players can earn in endorsements? Wow, what a way to treat your stars. Do they deduct "excess" endorsement income from the player's salary?

Thanks, guys, for the info about the rookies.

I guess you heard that LeBron signed a a four year $80M contract extension with the Cavs. I'm a little surprised that he did this. I thought that his original endorsement deals specified bigger bucks if he played in a big city like New York or Los Angeles. So, I thought his longer than expected silence in the recent contract extension negotiations was an indication that he was considering playing out his fourth season with the Cavs and then becoming an unrestricted free agent. Or, perhaps an indication that he was trying to strong arm the Cavs into a sign-and-trade; e.g., to one of those big market teams, in order to maximize his endorsement income. Apparently, he chose the Cavs over the money. Wow! A man of honor, and, a man with loyalty to team and city! He's actually satisifed with the money he's getting. Jeez! Clearly Lebron is not a graduate of the Carlos Boozer School of Finance and Ethics. Is this some sort of good will gesture to a city that has previously been victimized by its sports figures, or, is it possible that Lebron really is a good guy? Very Interesting development in Cleveland.

Ms de Blazer: The only thing I know about the WNBA is Simone Augustus (she's alrady a legend at LSU). It was because of Simone that I watched my first WNBA game. The WNBA is way slower than the NBA. So the WNBA and the NBA operate under the same CBA agreement?

[ July 10, 2006, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Thomas ]

Larry, that can't be right. Why would the WNBA impose a finacial restriction on endorsements? I don't get it. That's way too much control over its players. What happened to free enterprise? How can they control how much players earn in their free time; e.g.; when they are off the court?

I'll bet that Ms de Blazer meant that players can only wear a limited number of "endorsed products" onto the court, or, something like that. If the WNBA does have that much control over its players, then why have a Players Association at all?

[ July 10, 2006, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Thomas ]

We'll need Ms. de Blazer to explain it all to us, but I'm sure she didn't mean wearing endorsement products on the court (I'm sure they can't do that!).

Because of the vast difference in finances between the NBA and WNBA, the WNBA players have very little leverage. They are slower than the men, but they play a more fundamentally sound game. And Lisa Leslie is in better shape than Shaq (both 34). Best of all, my hometown Sparks are burning up the league this year.

No, they don't. Are the women even unionized? They have very little power, especially compared to the men.

The women are indeed unionized. Remember a couple of seasons ago they threatened a strike? One of sports all time "Tree Falling in the Woods" moments.

As for the players having restrictions on endorsements, is that even necessary? I mean are companies really going up to WNBA players with wheelbarrows of cash to endorse products? Sounds pretty unlikely to me. And you would think the WNBA would want these gals to get as much exposure as possible. I think perhaps the restrictions may be more about the types of endorsements they can get, not the money. At least that would make some kind of sense.

LOL! Yes, they threatened to take their little ball and go home. No one cared. But I do agree that the WNBA plays a more team-oriented, fundamentals-based game. Because of that, and its speed, it makes for an excellent teaching tool for the sport - and is a welcome change from the egocentric game played in the NBA. Now, if they could only get a little more speed into their play ...

So then guy, if they women of the WNBA are, as georgetwinsfan stated (lets here it for Liriano and Santana!), unionized, and, they have no collective bargaining agreement with the league, as Larry stated, then exactly how much power do the playes have in salary, trade, etc. negotiations with the league? I don't get it? What agency and what criteria is used to fix the players value and salary? There has to be some set guidelines regarding salary verses tenure verses value, otherwise the league will end up in financial chaos. How are these things determined in the absence of a CBA? Are you guys saying that the WNBA doesn't even have a salary cap? That's hard to believe.

[ July 11, 2006, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Thomas ]

George and GMG reminded me that the WNBA is unionized (I remember that strike threat now). What I meant is that they don't have a similar CBA to what the men have.

Essentially, the NBA has to subsidize the WNBA just to keep it afloat (I think this is still true -- I'm sure Ms. de Blazer would know). Last time I checked, the top salaries were like $100,000 per year! That's less than LeBron and company will be making per game. It used to be (maybe still is) that the best women could make more in Europe than in the WNBA.

So salary caps and a lot of the other stuff we're used to in the NBA are pretty unnecessary.

[ July 11, 2006, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: LarryC ]

Larry. I am going to see what I can find out about WNBA salaries. I just can't believe that the best female basketball players in the world get only $100,000/yr while the best male players get $20,000,000/year. That can't be right.

[ July 12, 2006, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: Thomas ]

The WNBA does have a collective bargaining agreement, but it is different from the NBA CBA.
Yes, the top salary information is correct. Or was. I am not up on the current CBA but I could find out. And yes, there are limits on endoresments; for example, shoe contract money goes to the league. In the NBA a player's shoe money goes to him. Sorry I don't have all the details. Again, I could dig them out if anyone is interested (by interested I don't mean in making snide remarks like "take their little ball and go home").

Why not? The WNBA TV package is worth only a fraction of the NBA's. Ticket prices are much lower. Attendance is much lower and there far fewer games. Where is the money supposed to come from to pay the women anywhere near as much as the men?

[ July 12, 2006, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: George Twins fan ]

Yes, could you please ck on that one. It's hard to believe a WNBA's player shoe contract $$ going directly to the league. There's gotta be more to it than that..

I heard today on the Jim Rome show that the WNBA pulls a 0.2 television rating. Exactly how many television viewers is that? Can't be very many. Does anybody out there understand Nielsen ratings? Without a huge television contract, it will be very difficult for the WNBA players to demand higher salaries.

And Ms de Blazer, please don't get too mad at gmginsfo. That what guys do (gay or straight); we insult one another, as a way of communication. It's just an alternate form of affection; a friendly overture; dude talk. Although I understand it and like it, I can see why some would not. Politically correct? No. Insensitive? Yeah. But I'll bet he never intended to upset you or insult the WNBA. That just wouldn't make sense, not here. We're in this together. I would definitely like to know more about how the WNBA works.

[ July 12, 2006, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Thomas ]

I assume that most everybody knows that Peja Stojakovic ($64M/5yr) is now a Hornet. We got him through a sign and trade with the Pacers. Mike Kahn is reporting that the Pacers persuaded the Hornets to do a sign-and-trade for the 1998 second round draft pick, Andrew Betts and cash, creating $7.5M trade exception for the Pacers, who hope to use that exception to entice Atlanta's Al Harrington back to his hometown of Indiana.

At first, I was confused as to why the Hornets would do that for the Pacers; especially since, in my opinion, the Hornets already paid too much for Peja. But I think I know the reasons why. First, the Golden State Warriors is a Western division opponent and are also vying for Al Harrington's services. Byron Scott, the Hornets coach, would rather see Harrington in Indiani (Eastern division) where he doesn't have to contend with him, rather than in the Western division, where he would have to contend with him regularly. Second, the Hornets see Golden State as one of two rivals that can keep them out of the playoffs next year, so moved to strengthen the hand of the Pacers in their fight with Golden State to sign Harrington. Third, the Hornets don't like the Warriors very much. I doubt most new Orleanians hate San Francisco or the Warriors, but, I can tell you this. They do HATE Baron Davis, so any team he plays for is also fair game.

Baron Davis pulled an Alonzo Mourning-type move on the Hornets back in 2005. He didn't want to play for the Hornets any longer; he hated Byron Scott; he broke team rules repeatedly; he faked long and suspicious injuries starting with his back, then his knees, then his tendons, then his toe. Finally, he got his wish. The Hornets traded him to Golden State. Now look what's happened. He's not playing there either. What's wrong with him now? His knee? His back? His foot? What? You blow on him, he breaks or bends something. And Baron's body parts apparently don't heal properly without a soothing trade deal.

Look out Golden State; this method act is old news and we in New Orleans know every part and every line. Baron Davis isn't hurt that bad; he's just lazy and selfish and wants out of San Francisco. He's a bad apple and I don't like him one bit.

[ July 14, 2006, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Thomas ]

I don't care for Baron Davis either. I also think he's overrated. The beginning of last season, there was this absurd MVP buzz over him. His scoring and assists were high, but his shooting percentage sucked. And it always has.

Thomas, my guess is that teams tend to accommodate each other on sign and trades so long as it doesn't disadvantage them. It's probably an unwritten rule -- sort of a "what goes around, comes around" kind of thing, a courtesy that is expected to be reciprocated.

I only wish it were true. Having been called, today, "the office nutjob" because I have a disability I am not feeling much love on this board. Or friendship. Or any sense of we're in this together. In fact I feel that I am just plain not welcome here.

Larry: Baron Davis is a pompous self-absorbed ass who has all kinds of trouble telling the truth. Had he been stuck in New Orleans the day before Katrina arrived, and, had I been the only person reponsible for evacuations, I would have left him on his doorstep. I don't like Baron Davis.

In addition to insulting Byron Scott (his coach), his team mates, Hornets fans, and the city of New Orleans, I especially can't forgive him for what he did to J.R. Smith (who the Hornets recently traded to the Bulls). JR was Baron's protegee during his rookie season with the Hornets, his boy, his pet project. He took an already egotistical young rookie (Baron was JR's boyhood hero) and turned him into one of the most selfish, self-absorbed, and obnoxious whiners in the NBA. J.R. Smith is another Kenyon Martin, but without the talent. I blame Baron for J.R.'s attitude because J.R. was an impressionable young kid and Baron turned out to the mentor from hell. Baron finally left New Orleans (for good I hope) but not before creating a replica of himself in the form of J.R. Smith. I don't like Baron Davis.

People talk all the time about NFL receivers and quarterbacks fighting over the ball (e.g.; the Eagles' Tyrell Owens and Donovan McNabb, or, the Giants Eli Manning and Plexico Burress), but that's nothing compared to the collective whining Hornets fans endured from J.R. Smith.
Just wait until Chicago Bulls fans get a load of this kid. He'll chuck it up from anywhere on the court, and, he expects his teammates to get HIM the ball, set picks for HIM, and rebound for HIM. He never met a shot he didn't like and he refuses to play defense. In case Bulls fans wonder next season where J.R. Smith got his bad attitude and selfish approach to basketball, the answer is Baron Davis.

In short, had you known then what you know now, you would not have been surprised that Baron Davis takes a lot of shots. That's who he is. If the Golden State fans really want to keep Baron Davis happy, then they better not criticize him; they better leave him be; or he'll sulk, get a mysterious illness, and ask for a trade. Oh yeah, just in case I didn't make it clear enough: I don't like Baron Davis one bit.

[ July 15, 2006, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Thomas ]

The "office nutjob"? From one "nutjob" to another, that description sounds like somebody I'd like. So, if that's a proposal, I accept. Seriously, though, I wonder if your preceptions are correct. I've been called an idiot and a fool on these boards, but I didn't take it personal. I would guess that most of the OUTsports family is male, and challenging each other, even name calling, is the prevalent form of communication among men. So when someone calls me out, I either admit to the mistake, or, accept the challenge: roll up my sleeve, take off the only expensive item I own, and move to the dirty side of the field to mount a counterattack.

I didn't feel welcome when I first joined either. But I think that was because my posts were regional, limited to the Saints, LSU, and the SEC. And, frankly, because I worshipped Peyton and Eli Manning (still do). But once I included some of the other sports teams and sports figures that I love (or hate), I started to have more fun. Could you recruit more women? Recruit more WNBA fans? That would be great! But I don't think you should feel bad because someone challenged your post. People will disagree with you from time to time. I think it's fun. Respond to the challenge. Let them know your point of view. Don't take it personal. That's why they call it a forum. But when it comes to sports, I don't think guys are going to change a language and means of communication they've been taught since childhood, not even for the ladies.

Besides, I like you. Larry C likes you. And I get the impresion that alleninsf, george twins fan, and even gmginsfo likes you too. I really think that issuing friendly challenges and insults is just how the male sports fan communicates. By the way, because I know how your feel about this issue, and because I participate in other forums, you probably should steer clear of all SEC sports forums. Those freaks have created an art form of the sports insult. It's fun, but might be a little to advanced for your taste. And above all, steer clear of all european soccer events and forums.

The only thing that really matters in this world is how we see ourselves. Once we start defining ourselves by what others think of us, we lose our individuality. We all need love and support of friends and family to make life complete, but these things are not guaranteed and sometimes come slowly or are difficult to find; some of us never get that in quantity. But you should always stay in the game, keep reaching out, and stay patient, because someday you just might get what you want . Plus, friends and lovers don't mean much unless you first love yourself. Once that's done, it won't matter so much what others think of you, because you will already know your worth. Feel better now? I was trying to be both encouraging and fun, but somehow it still sounds like a bunch of cliches strung together. Sorry I couldn't phrase it better.

[ July 15, 2006, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: Thomas ]

Sorry we hijacked this thread a little, but, from all reports out of Charlotte, AMMO is getting rave reviews for his stellar shooting in team scrimmage. It's too bad they play in the same division as the Heat. The Bobcats were 38 games out of first place last year. Compare that finish to the Bucs, the 8th place team in the East, who finished only 24 games out. Because it looks like all five teams from the East Central division will return to the Eastern Conference playoffs next year (Pistons, Cavs, Pacers, Bulls, and Bucs); and, of course the Heat will win the Southeast with the Wizards in tow; and because the Nets are always winners of the Atlantic division, it will be difficult for the Bobcats to break into the top eight next season. So, whether AMMO plays or not, I doubt the Bobcats will see the playoffs next season. But AMMO is a good guy and I hope his addition is the beginning of big things in Charlotte.

[ July 17, 2006, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: Thomas ]