Just to break the seal on this final category, who do you think are the greatest female jocks of all time? Babe Didrikson? Martina Navratilova? Mia Hamm?

Who are your favorites?

And finally, who are the most influential?

That depends on the sport I would assume. I think Martina is the best athlete in tennis - period. Although Suzanne Lenglen might have given her a run if she'd been playing in the open era. Cheryl Swoopes or Nancy Lieberman for basketball. Mia for soccer. Babe Z. or Nancy Lopez for golf. Maybe Flo Hyman for volleyball. Nadia Comeneci-Conner for gymnastics with Olga Korbut a close second. In ice skating, there were so many good skaters. How can you not like the grace and style of Peggy Fleming or Dorothy Hamill. For most athletic I'd say Midori Ito without a doubt. I remember seeing her land a triple axel at the world championships and was just amazed. Scott Hamilton mentioned that this caliber only comes around every 50 years. I believe it. The best sports commentator man or woman is Mary Carillo. No contest.

However, for best all-around, I'll go out on a limb and say Jackie Joyner-Kersee.

My personal favorites are Martina and Chris hands down. I always liked watching Nadia when I was a kid. I like watching Kristi Yamaguchi, Denise Biellman, and my favorite, gay goddess Surya Bonali.

For most influential, that's a tough call. It would have to be someone who has progressed the sport. In the tennis world that would be Billie Jean Moffit King. I think that Dinah Shore had a lot to do with women's golf. Nancy Lieberman advanced women in professional basketball. You can say Baba Wawa in TV land. Any other suggestions?

[ September 29, 2001: Message edited by: seanboy ]

Oh wow....ok let's see:
Ice hockey: Cammie Granato
Tennis: Steffi, Martina, Helen Wills Moody
Golf: Babe
Hoops: Cheryl Miller, Dawn Staley
Soccer: April Heinrichs, Mia Hamm
Volleyball: Flo Hyman
Field Hockey: Allyson Annan
Lacrosse: Cherie Greer
All-around: Babe, JJK
Gymnastics: Nadia C
Softball: Dot Richardson

Most influential?
Billie Jean, April H, Nadia, Val Ackerman, the Founders (mainly Brandi & Julie F), Martina

Seanboy, about Midori Ito, who's a personal favorite of mine, you mean a triple axel, not a triple lutz. Most top women do a triple lutz, but to my knowledge Ito and (ugh) Tonya Harding are the only women have landed triple axels in competition. But while I saw Tonya land on her ample derrière several times thereafter attempting to repeat the feat, I actually saw Midori succeed at it more than once, including a freebie one once in a non-competitive venue.

I think when you mention the greatest athletes of all time, the success at multiple sports should be considered. All the above mentioned are great athletes, no doubt. Babe indeed excelled at multiple sports, both in the world of track and field and pro golf. JJK also has done well in both basketball and track and field. I would also include Althea Gibson to that list, since she not only won five tennis grand slams, but also played professional golf for a short time.

when tonya harding was on (rarely, no doubt) i thought her jumps were way prettier and precise than midori ito's. if you look at basic technique and take into account midori's awful leg-wrap, tonys's jumping was much better. too bad she never held it together. there was many-a-word about the comparisons of the two in a soon-to-be defunct figure skating discussion board.

Thanks Tom for correcting me. I knew it was an axel, but since Midori and Tonya are the only two to land it in competition, I carelessly wrote lutz since that is the hardest jump that any of the ladies are attempting now. I should have re-read my post twice instead of once because I didn't catch it.

Blueboy, while Midori's jumps were not aesthetically pretty, she was far more consistent than Trailer Trash Tonya, and the high leg wrap worked for her. I actually liked it because it was a different look.

Tom, I remember seeing her mohawk around the ice rink at that mall in Portland, I think, and try the axel. Wasn't it for Inside Edition or one of those type shows? And yes, she flopped like a fish on the ice. I remember her skate problems at the Olympics. Just goes to show, what goes around comes around.

Does Jeff Garcia count as a female athlete?

Don't forget Bonnie Blair in US speed skating - the most decorated US Woman athlete in the history of the Winter Olympics.

JJK takes home the "greatest ever" trophy.

If you are talking about women being successful in multiple sports, Marion Jones, the world's fastest woman, was a topnotch basketball player for UNC

Thanks Hank, I was about to mention Marion Jones. I wouldn't be surprised if after she finishes a stellar track career she plays a few years for the WNBA.

And how can we all forget the female athlete who greatly advanced dental hygiene: Mary Lou Retton.

There is one female tennis player that is never really mentioned among the greats of all time, but should be IMHO. That's Maureen Connolly, also known as "Little Mo". She made 9 grand slam finals--and WON ALL 9!! And in a span of about 3 years. Her career was unfortunately cut short due to a terrible injury and then she died of cancer at an early age. Otherwise she could have racked up 20 to 30 grand slam titles.

The sport of swimming has produced some phenomenal athletes, including Jenny Thompson and Janet Evans...but going back a bit to the era of the steroid enhanced domination of East Germany...I think about Tracy Caulkins, who set 63 American Records (and a tidy bundle of world marks) in all four strokes, and Shirley Babashoff, who would have won 5 gold medals in Montreal in 1976 had the competition been clean.

Flo Jo to the extreme. She opened the door for so many women and let it be known once and for all that a woman could be athletic and sexy. She totally raised the bar to a new level.

I know few, if anyone will agree with me, but I can't shake the feeling I got whenever i watched Chris Evert play tennis—fluid, athletic, precise. There's a zillion women who were better athletes than Chrissie, but few were better competitors. My vote for greatest female athlete last century: Chris Evert.

Entering a discussion like this, I would be crazy to disagree with any of the names of women athletes that have been posted. Of course, success and longevity have to be figured in to the equation.

However, at the height of her game and full athletic ability, I don't think there has EVER, EVER, EVER been an athlete like Venus E. S. Williams.

Little Mo is definitely not a name that you hear thrown around much, but she may have been the greatest of them all.

Venus is definitely the best athlete in tennis. It's actually funny to hear Navratilova answer the question about whether she could have beaten Venus. I think she believes the answer is "no" but she clearly doesn't want to say no.

Obviously, I'm going to go with Gabriela Sabatini. Don't get me wrong -- her results don't put her in the same category as the women who would normally fall in this group; however, I think if you look at simple talent and ability rather than career results, she can be mentioned. She had every shot in the book and then some, plus was capable of playing a variety of styles ranging from baseliner to net rusher to all-court. Martina N. said of Sabatini when she retired that Gaby was "one of the few players [Navratilova] would pay to watch play tennis" and that "no one puts a spin on the ball like Gaby." Gabriela lacked the killer instinct that the greatest champions all possess, but no one before or since comes close to her unique combination of talent, style, and athleticism. Perhaps she can only fall in the "who are your favorites?" side of this discussion, but what a favorite she was!

Should Maria Callas, Anna Moffo, or Leontyne Price be mentioned?

Only if Barbra Streissand, Bette Midler, and Judy Garland are.

Don't forget Cher!

Gosh, maybe I started us down a slippery slope. I meant to poke a little benign fun at our idolizing certain female athletes in much the same way we do divas. In no way did I mean to demean these athletes or to criticize the way we do it, but I'm afraid we could be pissing some people off and I can smell a flame coming. I'm sure my fellow posters did it in the same vein, and I hope others will not be discouraged from continuing to post serious messages about great women athletes.

Geez, this website is on a much higher level than any other that I have been a part of.

Tom, great post. I'm sure the others meant it in honest cheer as well.

Two fine female athletes who deserve mention because they both fought disease and came back to win Olympic gold.

Wilma Rudolph
Gail Devers

Now Gail is a DIVA!!! She carries herself wonderfully and is always gracious , win or lose. All hail gail!!!!

Some great U.S. women track atheltes:

Gail Devers (although no hurdle Olympic Gold, she has 2 100m Golds)
Marion Jones (she was an NCAA Champ. B-Ball player too, and has so much potential, even though her win streak was snapped... she can lad the world in the 100, 200, 400, and long jump I am sure)
Mary Slaney (even when she got in her late 30's she was up there with the best in the world)
Regina Jacobs/Suzy Favor Hamilton/Jearl Miles'Clark, Joetta Clark (ageless wonders who are bringing track back to the US!)
Stacy Dragila (she has proved to be dominant in her event)
JJK (of course, who can argue her greatness)
Marla Runyan (a World Champs. finalist who is legally blind, U.S. record holder indoors in the 5k, 4 years ago was a heptathlete, quick conversion...)
An interesting note... the last 2 women Olympic Trials maration winners were ranked like 60th and ended up winning (Spangler and Clark)

My nominee is Joan Weston the great roller derby skater who skated all over the U.S. for more than 40 years. Anyone who ever saw her in action knew how special she was. When she died in 1997, Frank Deford wrote in the New York Times, "b.1935 In the 1950's, roller derby was a national rage. The San Francisco Bay Bombers ruled the sport, and Joanie Weston was their star. She was a gifted athlete, perhaps the best of her era - she once hit eight home runs in a softball game. But the stigma attached to roller derby assured that she would never gain the recognition she deserved."

Well, she has my vote.

I still believe Navratilova's best beats Venus' best. She had much better control of her game. Certainly Venus would win her share, but in a prolonged series of matches (across all surfaces) I think Navratilova would prevail.

Most influential--Billie Jean.

I dunno Roland - Venus is still not at her best and regularly spanks a better field. They're very similar players, surface wise. They love Wimbledon and clay is not their strong suit (though both can win on it - you give Venus time and she'll win the French. I bet next year she remembers Barbara Schett and goes quite far.) Navratilova had more control and vollyed. Venus has a better movement, speed, and power. Both of them have iron wills. A series of matches between Steffi, Venus, and Martina at their peaks would have been a wonderful thing to watch.

I think the early 90's Monica Seles would've given every one of those ladies a lot of trouble.

Very true. I'd add her to my all-time great list.

Joannie Weston definitely gets my vote

Martina Navratilova. Period. Without question she is the top. She is not only one of the most accomplished tennis players of either gender, she also had the longevity. The talent and the skill were supplemented with hard work, smarts in nutrition and training, etc. Also, she did do multi sports, although she didn't pursue any of them professionally. She was an accomplished skier and basketball player. Actually, she is so talented, she probably can play any sport she wants. And excel at it.

Most influential--BJK. Bar none.

Most beautiful...how did that get in there? ;o Gabriela Sabatini is a knock down gorgeous human being.

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The best sports commentator man or woman is Mary Carillo. No contest.
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WOW. Someone finally agrees with me. Red letter day. I can't believe that more people aren't entertained by her intelligence, wit, and timing. And for me, she is my type. <sigh>

Babe Didrikson Zaharias. She is one of the top two or three female golfers of all time AND won Olympic gold medals in hurdles and javelin (plus a tied gold in high jump), at the time the only three events in which women were allowed to compete. She was a founding member of the LPGA, won the US Women's Open after being diagnosed with colon cancer, and is still the only woman to have made a cut in a men's PGA event.

Babe Didrikson Zaharias is tops in my book. Martina Navratalova, Fanny Blankers-Koen, Jacki Joyner Kersee Katarina Witt and Nadia Comenici all place high up there.

Damn, all you guys are showing how young you are!

Without a doubt, historians would name Babe Didrikson Zaharias and Billie Jean King the undisputed 1 and 2.

Babe was great in her day, and compared to the other women athletes. You have to remember those were very few and far between. VERY few women engaged in sports. Babe was likened to a man. <grrr>
BJK--hey they named a tennis stadium after her. Most people agree she is one of the all-time greats, for a lot of reasons. Woo Hoo that she finally came out as a gay woman!

Martina would give any woman of any era, a run for their money, in so many sports.