I'm kinda diggin' this add!

[img]http://images.blogads.com/nbjmpvutqpsutdpn/outsports/3287631/thumb?rev=rev_8[/img]

NJ

All this mewling and puking...over WHAT?

You can learn to ignore everything to the right of the message board. It may take time, but I have no problem ignoring it completely. None of the crap on those linkys is anything I would ever buy. If someone gave me a thong, I'd throw it away. And I don't visit gay resorts, so seeing a link to it here isn't gonna tempt me.

Or just do what Joe suggested and minimize your browser window.

For whatever its worth, I appreciate everything Cyd and Jim have done with this site. I'm sorry I haven't said "thank you" more often, by I'm in the holiday spirit.

On the other hand, I appreciate Jamie's sentiments entirely, and since I know (and love) her, I will not argue with her right to hold this view.

My suggestion for those who hate the ads - if you have a problem, find a solution. If someone has the time and funds to start their own gay sports message board, free and clear of all advertising, then you are free to do so. Just send me your link.

But this "fix" might require them having to do something!

You know how it is?

....people are at work already...they're not working, they're reading and posting on outsports...so if they have to alter their browser, it'll be actual work and so...you know...they don't like working...so they'll just continue to bitch and whine and post about their sorry ass raise.

NJ

I've said this before. The ads are staying. So, I really hope everyone learns to live with them; we'd hate to lose anyone because we decided to try to finally get paid for our estimated 9,000 hours (and running) each of unpaid work on this site.

But, we're not going to close this thread. If people still want to complain about it and not accept it, then that's their choice.

[ December 12, 2005, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: Cyd at Outsports ]

Secretly, of course, it's our way of getting CU in trouble at work. wink

As an part-time contributor and more importantly, an advertiser on this site I found this discussion thread started by GJ quite interesting. As a small business owner that targets the LGBT community let me share a little insight with those sitting in cubicles across America trying to offer marketing and business advice to Jim & Cyd about how manage their marketing budget: Sex sells and we small business owners do not have the luxury of being too picky when it comes to advertising.

My company, Be Gay Tours promotes gay travel to Brazil for men and women. In our market research tests we learned early on that when we put hot guys in speedos on the site our hits increased 1000%. We tried a "cultural" approach that emphasized the uniqueness of Brazil as a destination and it's history. We average 20-25 hits a day. We tried an "upscale" approach targeting high-end gay consumers with the focus on the beaches and resorts. We averaged 20 hits a day. When we put up hot Brazilian guys in Speedos our hits per day increased to over 200.

Now maybe the people who went to our site because of our cultural or upscale approaches were more likely to buy a trip than the 200 who came to the site because of the hot guys in speedos but Be Gay Tours is a small company (for now) and we do not have the budget or resources to create niche marketing campaigns. We have to go where the numbers are and right now we get the most value for our advertising budget by featuring hot Brazilian guys in speedos.

I used to live in Brazil and I know that there is so much more to Brazil than this but the fact of the matter is that it is it is guys looking for and attracted to the hot guys in our ads that are driving our web traffic. This is a fact. You may not like it but it does not change the fact that the best thing for my business is to continue this marketing strategy because it creates the most value for the money we spend on marketing and advertising.

It is very expensive to create and maintain a quality website not to mention labor-intensive. Outsports is a free website to its readers which means that if Jim and Cyd are to recoup expenses and maybe even make money then they have to sell advertising space. Right now that advertising comes from companies that use good-looking, shirtless models to promote their products.

If this offends, disturbs, or annoys any of the readers then I suggest you offer Jim and Cyd an alternative instead of complaining. Maybe Outsports readers could help the site find new advertisers? Maybe the discussion boards become "ad-free" and users pay a monthly, quarterly or annual fee to use or subscribe to the discussion boards? All of you have a right to complain or praise the site and the advertising on it. However if you are going to complain, please take into account the business realities faced by Jim and Cyd in the marketplace when making your comments.

[ December 13, 2005, 04:41 AM: Message edited by: CockyinMiami ]

Bingo

Thats the bottom line is making money for your efforts... dont confuse that with putting up ads for jock straps, and saying it's for anything less than for that money... or being the victim of hard work.

I'm a bit torn about the ads. I understand why they are needed, but they will limit the number of visitors to the site during the day from some very smart, lively, cultured people. I'm amazed at the knowledge of some of the Outsporters that post and like how some of the more serious discussions get hit on almost all points of view with valid points. I also enjoy some of the more lively banter and trash talking that occurs. I'd hate to see some of our best posters quit visiting the site because they feel that it is no longer safe to visit it at work.

Luckily for me, my company has pretty good internet blockers so pretty much all the ad pictures do not show up. If they did, I know I wouldn't visit the site as much.

However, I understand what Cyd and Jim are doing. Running a website is not an easy task at all. I'm trying to run a small little informational website only for a gay flag football league here in Phoenix, and the site is still "under construction" because I've been swamped at work and haven't had the time to set up pictures or do any creating. I couldn't imagine trying to run a site the size of Outsports while working 40 hours a week at another job.

My only criticism or suggestion would be that I would like to see more promotion of gay sports. Something on the front page that shows upcoming gay sporting events across the country. It could show upcoming gay softball tournaments in different cities, upcoming gay rodeos, gay tennis tournaments, the gay flag football tournaments, etc. These things are always so much more fun when they have a lot of spectators that have come out from the community. Besides, it's a whole lot more fun to be a Superstar when you can attract more adoring fans!!

Comparing the annual swimsuit issue to the current ads is absurd. That is a once a year, one-off deal. Maybe if OS had racy material in only ONE section of the web site and ran racy ads only ONE week of the year you could make that argument.

If SI ran a weekly Swimsuit Section, then you can guarantee people would indeed say it detracts from the magazine's overall mission.


The one bright spot in all this is that while you guys are consistently misrepresenting how bad the ads really are, you aren't bullshitting us about the reasons for the switch into average gay site territory. I do wish I hadn't been deluded into thinking the primary focus of OS is the second word in "gay sports," but at least I know otherwise now.

[ December 12, 2005, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: golfer 22 ]

While I don't presume to speak for Cyd & Jim, the idea that the advertising takes away from the core focus of the website as a gay sports site is pretty crazy. The advertising SUPPORTS the core focus/mission of Outsports. Why? Because without the advertising the site would not exist. There is no connection between the advertising and the editoral content. The advertisers contracted by Outsports want to reach educated, upper income LGBT consumers. Outsports's demographics are amazing and it took me 5 minutes of reviewing their stats to decide I was going to advertise on Outsports. The advertisers to your right think the best way to do this is via sexually suggestive ads featuring scantily clad men.

That is not the fault of Outsports. The anger and confusion on this thread is misuguded. If you are upset with the advertising on Outsports contact the ADVERTISERS, not Outsports. Criticizing the owners of a FREE website for the content of the advertising that supports the site and allows it to be free to you is not fair and is misguided.

All of you reading this thread who are upset with the advertising need to contact the companies that are doing the advertising and let them know how you feel. If you contact the companies that are offending you then you are affecting change in a positive way and you will be providing invaluable feedback to companies that feel the best way to reach you as a consumer is to utilize sexually-suggestive advertising.

My company advertises to the LGBT community and we have found that the most effective way to reach the largest number of potential customers is to feature good-looking, cut, muscular guys in speedos. Until I get evidence to the contrary or enough feedback to show that that type of advertising does not reach my intended audience then I will continue to use this strategy.

Well, that's the way things work in America: ya gots' to sell ads. Apparently the companies that advertise here think the gay folk prefer to see ads with near nekid, good lookin' men...Personally, I couldn't name one company selling stuff on this sight, and I never even pay attention to the ads, so I guess I don't fit the stereotype for the gay demographic. I'd be more likely to pay attention to ads with sports teams' logos, sports gear and such....

I polled a few straight guys who work around here, none of them would spend anytime on those pages at work were it could be seen. Though all would definetly spend time on it at home.

The main difference is the can still stay on most of the SI site without having to worry about those work inappropiate images. I can't do that with outsports.

I think people who find the ads distasteful and are afraid of reading the site at work should be as outraged at the fact that society has such a double standard between what gay men can comfortably look at vs. what straight men can. There are lots of ads all over the web (as well as mainstream newspapers and magazines) with bikini clad women and I doubt these straight guys are posting their protestations to the sites they visit. The ads, while somewhat tittilating, are not pornographic.

The reason advertisers want to use flesh to get people to click on their ads is, as CockyinMiami said, because it works. Despite the complaining here, the ads with flesh on this site have a click-through rate that is literally 20 TIMES HIGHER than the ones that don't. You can complain all you want about the advertisers, but it's the consumers that are making it work for them.

I take issue with the argument that discounts the points-of-view of the people who post from work because (paraphrased:) "they are supposed to be working anyway." It doesn't wash. Whether or not someone can use the internet for personal surfing is between the company and the employee. As is any evaluation of job performance. I find it rather presumptuous to assume that because someone posts from work and is concerned about the ads being office-friendly that they would then automatically be a goof-off wasting company time.

Everyone in my office, from the President on down, is free to use the internet for personal purposes. I don't have someone standing over me making sure that I am busy every minute of the day or to prevent me from taking small sanity breaks by visiting a message board I enjoy when I have a little downtime. That said, it is expected that I won't abuse such freedom by visiting inappropriate sites.

If a company allows staff to visit legitimate web sites on company time, then it's really not anyone else's place here to use that fact to discredit any concerns he/she might have about keeping the site up to a professional standard. I'm not saying I have those concerns personally, but I do post from work, and I have seen several people play the "you should be working anyway" card and I find that unfair and short-sighted.

Gaga, I'm with you on the work issues. I'm one of the owners of my company and I still don't want one of my employees to see these ads on the right. And before you "OUTERS" go crazy saying that we only say this because we're closeted, you're wrong. My husband attended our Christmas party with me and there are no secrets with my employees in this office. I just find them offensive to anyone that would walk by my computer.

Look everyone!

SI.com has a "model of the day" link almost every day on cnn.com.

And their homepage offers this:



It reminds everyone "over 1000 images"!

They even offer (right from their homepage!) "mobile swimsuit!"



And last but not least:


Is it just me, or is Anna becoming increasingly unattractive as she "grows up"?

NJ

Maybe Jamie would stay if there were ads like that on here.

There was a discussion thread back in June when the first really revealing ads became noticed:

Wouldn't it be possible for Outsports to ask its advertisers to simply tone down their ads? For example, no bare butts or pubic hair, or have some defined policy that tells marketers what is acceptable? Or, would you allow out right porn sites advertise here as well? (after all, if shirtless men will make advertisers' hits go from 20 to 200, naked men could make it go from 200 to 2000) I believe Outsports has had a policy in the past of not allowing things apparently pornographic to be posted or linked to here. It now seems that a number of posters are saying you've crossed the line into soft porn yourselves. So I think the question boils down to, where are you going to draw the line between acceptable standards versus revenue?

Yes, but NJ...Sports Illustrated is widely known for their swimsuit issue, so it makes sense they would have those ads on there. I come to Outsports to talk about the Red Sox, to read about TV, Moves, etc...and the Real Life section, I don't come here so I can see a thong.

I was responding to this diatribe:

Merloni26 - you are speaking of yourself..why you come to outsports...business 101 says you cater to the masses....rarely to the individual....I don't disagree with you or anyone else that finds the "ass-adds" on the tasteless side....but I also agree that "sex sells" and I suspect a silent majority sit with woodies at their desks and wish they could have 5 minutes alone with said model.

A simple and EZ alternative has been suggested about a billion times now...."adjust your browser"....

Why is that such a hard thing to do?

And this constant comparison of outsports to "straight" sports sites is absurd....MEN ARE MEN.....to sit there and say "straight men that are into sports don't care about sex" is laughable......they're just as into it as us homos.....they simply prefer to see T & A....and we prefer P & A.

NJ

I could point you to three porn sites where you can have said 5 minutes with said porn model. However "pornographic, sexually explicit or otherwise offensive material, or links to same." are not allowed on Outsports, even if said model also works for JockStrapCentral.com

Touche'!!!!!

NJ

NJ, that could also be D & A.

ROFL! that could translale into DNA (ewwww)

Ok seriously, i'll speak for myself and say I'm the minority group who WOULD NOT want to spend time with a model. Not my type.

Sorry though, I didnt' read the few previous posts, so I didn't know what the S.I. was referring to (my fault)

It's only a bit irritating for me, cuz of a nosy little F'in co-worker who calls out my name every 5 seconds to show me something, tell me something, or to walk right up to me (without warning) and say "What ya doin now"

I have adjusted the size of my browser (snicker) and it does work....I guess I just have to deal with it.

[ December 13, 2005, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Merloni26 ]

NJ,

Model of the day = Pic of the day, hot jock thread.. and countless others.

Plus when at the SI site, the link for the Swimsuit issue is at the bottom, below other SI links and well away from any of the articles that are written. It does not come up on every page, like it does on the message board. I fail to see how they are even comparable.

Personally, I keep my browser small when at work, so it’s really no sweat off my back.

However, I do see the very valid point of a double standard when money is involved. Someone like Jay Mohr is vilified and called a boob for writing about who attends/plays in the WBNA. Yet, when money is involved, the same who criticize someone like him will gladly put up a promotion of a the same double standard giving into the perception that all of us want to buy fashion jocks with NYPD on them while we are watching the latest 76ers game drooling over everyone on the floor.

I’m just guessing here, but if ESPN replaced some of their other crap they have going with ads of strippers at the side of every article, they might see less users during the day when people are in a professional place of business. Let’s face it, the only time this board gets a lot of action is when most of us are at work and during the day.

The only other message board I go to is run by eagle fans for eagle fans. There are no ads, no pop ups. It’s free without ads, and the posters will donate to keep it that way. IE they are in it to bring people together, have fun, talk about the eagles. Not to make money.

Like I said though, I’m just raising debate.

Oh my!

That reminds me of when I lived in South Jersey...I would stop every morning for my Diet Coke @ a WaWa and the cashier always greeted me with a big "Hello Eagle Fan!".....(she said it to everyone).

Now altogether -

"Money makes the world go around, the world go around, the world go around! Money makes the world go around, it makes a clinking sound!"

I'm guilty of this too...but why do people seem intent on pointing out each other's hypocrisy?

We all have hypocritical viewpoints...whats the point?

So...instead...

1. Adjust your browser if adds offend.

2. Sex sells....or at least draws attention.

3. This site is not a non-profit org. established to disprove rumors that all of us queens are limp wristed pantie wearing, feces eating, man-boy loving liberal democrats.

4. This message board is not about you and what you want it to be.

5. The piece of coal you stuck up your ass is ready to be excreted as a perfectly cut diamond.

6. Break time over....

7. Who is that standing behind you at your desk right now?



NJ

I find it odd that people feel we somehow need to be responsible for their ability to surf the Internet at work. I don't get it.

Oh please, Martyr Jim.

The Hispanic cleaning guy who sweep and mops the floor LOL

On a funny note Jim,....where I work, ebay is blocked out. It's funny because the first week is was blocked, you overheard a bunch of people saying "They blocked ebay!" or "I can't even get on ebay anymore!" Which is funny if you think about...

As far as my web surfing (speaking just for me that is) there are certains times of the month where I only get to sit down for 4 seconds out of a 12 hour shift to check emails to see if there's anything I need to know (I can't even read the personal emails at that time LOL) then Im on my feet for the entire day with no lunch break and no stoppage in the work flow. On other days I rack my brain to think of what I can do next because there is absolutely nothing to do. It's on these days that I come to the site.

Yeah i know.

However I do post about sports.... You know what those are dont you?

Just checking since i've never seen it.

I wasn't directing that towards you......so see....it really isn't about you!

You must not read the baseball section much....but yeah....I admit that I'm not the biggest when it comes to armchair athletics...I actually get out and play them. wink

NJ

In your new NYPD speedo?

Or is that just for Pleasure at the milking station?

HOLLA!

[ December 13, 2005, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: PhillyFan ]

I disagree -- everyday when I read the Washington Post Sports section I see ads for 12-15 massage parlors (places named Geisha or Oriental Delight ...) -- do I think they demean or devalue terrific journalists in that section like Tom Boswell or Sally Jenkins? Hardly. Same when I read the Milwaukee Journal and see ads for strip joints near the Illinois border -- Cliff Christl is still a fine reporter for that paper despite the strippers. I just ignore the ads -- just like I can ignore the ones on this site if I care to.

A greater concern to me is that this board has the dearth of actual sports discussion. Sometimes it might be better called notabOutsports.com (but that's another thread)

Oh no Mr. Jones -- don't go there. So much for stereotypes -- you just quoted a song from a Broadway musical -- and one made famous by Liza (that's Liza with a z)!

[ December 13, 2005, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: DCBucky ]

The best point made yet! We always have, though, wanted to make this board open to any type of discussion and foster a sense of community. I know many people have been helped by advice they've received or stories they've shared.

I'd say it's less that people want you to be responsible and more that they expect that you'd care about the predicament these ads creates for them. You and Cyd have created what has become a really prosperous online community and there is a sense of loyalty and friendship that comes with that ... but it's a double-edged sword. When the hard reality that Outsports (and its online community) is a business hits everyone in the face, like it has with these ads, that shatters the sense of belonging.

People who post from work who feel like a part of this community, as odd as it may seem when you're talking about strangers on a message board, for them it may seem like Outsports is choosing the ads over its long-time community members. It's been made particularly clear that the ads are staying, so therefore the work-based posters who cannot supress the pics or don't know how have no choice but to leave. And that hurts on some level.

It's sort of like a break-up. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. But it's nicer when the person breaking up with you seems to feel some kind of remorse and it's nicer when you weren't dumped for Another Woman/Man/Advertisement.

Most of you are just making mountains out of molehills on this issue.

That is my opinion, but go ahead and skew what I wrote to make yourselves entertained.

[ December 13, 2005, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Allen ]

I don't have a clue to what that is supposed to mean...but speedos? No way!...always sorta felt like it wouldn't hold all my junk. You know, I'm such a big man and all.

LOL...I didn't even know that...I thought it was from one of those horrible rides at Disney World....or possibly Julie Andrews in the Sound of Music!

NJ

Oh, look who just popped on over from cruising shirtless Myspace profiles...

...and then she deleted her post

[ December 13, 2005, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: coyoteugly ]

My bad I meant jockstrap.. but i cant keep up with which naked ad is for which product.

Now excuse me, i just made my reservations at the naked gay resort.

But first i need to read about how Jay Mohr is a boob cause he said all chics at the WNBA are bulldykes. In my jock of course.

[ December 13, 2005, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: PhillyFan ]

I prefer "commando" myself...unless I'm sporting "dockers". wink

NJ

Allen, I hear you loud and clear bud.

I'm gonna go cruising in my new Pink Cadillac I got on gaywheels.com

Does this mean that ya'all will have enough new dough to bring in an actual football writer?

Just askin...

Except, is there ANY browser on ANY system that doesn't allow you to block the pics? There were instructions in this thread showing how to do it in Internet Explorer. I'm sure there are similar procedures for Mozilla Firefox and other browsers. I don't think it's that complicated, and anyone having a problem following these instructions can always ask for help here, and surely someone will reply.

So in reality everyone has a choice. Those who leave are making that choice for their own reasons, whether they're against ads in general or whether they are offended by the type of advertisers.

Personally, I don't need a picture of Elvis pumping gas (another of those links to MSNBC -- hey! A non-gay-oriented sponsor!) but I'm not going to leave the site over it.

What is wrong with you people? Aubie: You wouldn't want your employees to see such ads during the day? What? Are you afraid they're suddenly going to whip their d*cks out and start masturbating? Is one whiff of an underwear clad model enough to soil their soul forever?
And being part of this community means accepting the reality that shirtless ads are the norm when selling products, etc. What is so horrific and unprofessional about shirtless men in ads? Some of the most expensive, so-called classiest advertising in the world features nearly naked women and men. It's really all about the gay ads, isn't it? Gay men here, working around lots of str8 people, don't like seeing obviously gay companies advertising with barely clad men. Hmmm....
Why is this all such a problem when we see tits and ass everywhere? It appears that many here are mostly concerned with what straight co-workers will think.
I find all of this criticism directed towards Jim and Cyd completely ridiculous and unfounded. And I'm quite a critical b*tch sometimes!
You're here for free, kids; you don't get to dictate the terms. If you leave the site because you don't like the ads, you're being really crotchety. The choice is yours but support is a two-way street, and this community was created by Jim and Cyd...

Actually Joe, some people don't have that option--at my company we don't have access rights to change internet settings and I'm sure others are like that as well. And Bryan, no, its not because the ads are "gay" ads--I would find it inappropriate for work if the ads contained women in thongs or very suggestive photos as well.

It may have gotten lost in the discussion above, but I'll ask again, why can't Outsports.com simply request its advertisers to use more acceptable ads? They did it in June when this issue first came up.

[ December 13, 2005, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: HotlantaTarheel ]

I'm not saying that people don't have a choice. In fact, I'm saying the choice is all together too clear: stay or go.

It may seem an easy option to you to supress ads or to ask for help in doing so, but it may not feel that way to everyone.

What I was talking about is why some people may seem to feel like Outsports should be "responsible" for their internet time at work. If Outsports is going to be so resolute and not even consider that the ads are possibly the slightest big objectionable, well, the writing's on the wall. I don't blame Cyd and Jim. I don't have a better solution. I'm just trying to understand all perspectives.

Cyd and Jim are taking a business stance. Now, this is a business, so there's absolutely nothing at all wrong about taking a business stance. But I do think that approach can come off as kind of cold and people are reacting to that.

I honestly hate that anyone feels the need to leave over this, too. My point, however, was about perception. It's important to consider, I think, because obviously people are very invested in this community and people care. That's why there's so much discussion in the first place. And if a large percentage of people comprising your community feel like their voices don't matter, that's bad for business too.

Like PF, I'm just sayin'. The ads are not an issue for me personally and I ain't going nowheres. You guys are stuck with me for a while!



[ December 13, 2005, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Gaga4Gaby ]

If I remember correctly, that picture actually showed a penis, and thus was removed. While these pictures might not be conducive to work, they are not inconsistent with the established Outsports policy.

While I respect others' opinions on this, lets not forget about the countless hours put into this site, that we all use, free of charge. I'm not a fan of the ads, but I'm not offended by them. I'm sure if there was a choice, they would be removed.

It would be nice move on from this and be appreciative for all that we have been offered by two people who are clearly talented enough to do other things that they could be getting paid for. I don't say that to minimize anyone's feelings, but I sure would hate for Cyd and Jim to be discouraged by this thread and think about moving on from Outsports. I know I would be wondering that if I was in their position.