Yanks to Shop Pettitte, Phils Interested
Where the hell did these Phillies come from? They're interested in everybody now.
[ November 05, 2002: Message edited by: cubsfan1982 ]
Full Version: Trade Rumors
They come from a position of sheer desperation: if they don't spend scads of money to prove they want to win, they won't sell tickets for their new stadium next year. Everything else they've tried in the last couple of years has failed to convince the public to show up.
I remember that I had given up my partial season-ticket plan for a couple of years to save some money, and then during the collusion era the Phils broke ranks and signed free-agent catcher Lance Parrish, who was thought to be the one piece of the puzzle they needed to contend. I signed up for a ticket plan again...and they proceeded to stink out the joint for a few more years.
I can't wait to see who they obtain and how that affects ticket sales.
I remember that I had given up my partial season-ticket plan for a couple of years to save some money, and then during the collusion era the Phils broke ranks and signed free-agent catcher Lance Parrish, who was thought to be the one piece of the puzzle they needed to contend. I signed up for a ticket plan again...and they proceeded to stink out the joint for a few more years.
I can't wait to see who they obtain and how that affects ticket sales.
What are the chances that any of these big names will sign with/be traded to Philly? Unless they overwhelm him with cash and years, I can't see Thome pulling out of Cleveland, but then again, I haven't followed that story very closely. I'd like to see the Cubs go hard after Glavine, once they have the manager situation resolved. He'd be like an extra pitching coach on the staff, and he's not happy with the Braves' offer, from what I've heard.
Cleveland's maximum offer to Thome is said to be no more than $33 mil for 3 years plus club options, and they're going to be in a rebuilding mode. So if Thome wants to win and wants more guaranteed money/years he'll have to leave. If he's bound and determined to spend his entire career in Cleveland those other factors wouldn't matter much. Glavine's only been offered a one-year deal for $8 mil. While no negotiations can occur until 11/13, the Phils were scheduled to meet with Glavine in Atlanta today and Thome is visiting Philadelphia tomorrow. Today's Phila. Daily News also mentioned a possibility of packaging prospects for Bartolo Colon.
A's Trade Koch to ChiSox for Foulke and Minor Leaguers
[ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: cubsfan1982 ]
[ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: cubsfan1982 ]
I just heard about the Koch trade (A's to White Sox); I didn't even know they traded Cory Lidle (to Toronto!) 2 weeks ago. They must be trying to scrape together enough cash to keep Tejada.
Huh?
Cubs Trade Hundley to Dodgers for Karros, Grudzielanek
Must be part of a three way trade. Has to be.
[ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: cubsfan1982 ]
Cubs Trade Hundley to Dodgers for Karros, Grudzielanek
Must be part of a three way trade. Has to be.
[ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: cubsfan1982 ]
from cubsfan1982:
Huh? Cubs trade Hundley to Dodgers for Karros and Grudzielanek
I'm with you in that "huh?" On the face of it, the deal makes no sense for either team; it simply must be part of a bigger--multiteam--deal yet to be fully fleshed out. When I would get tickets to Chavez Ravine, I always made sure I was in good position to watch Grudzielanek.
~Adam
Huh? Cubs trade Hundley to Dodgers for Karros and Grudzielanek
I'm with you in that "huh?" On the face of it, the deal makes no sense for either team; it simply must be part of a bigger--multiteam--deal yet to be fully fleshed out. When I would get tickets to Chavez Ravine, I always made sure I was in good position to watch Grudzielanek.
~Adam
[quote]Originally posted by cubsfan1982:
[QB]Huh?
Cubs Trade Hundley to Dodgers for Karros, Grudzielanek
Must be part of a three way trade. Has to be. [QUOTE]
Even the Dodgers brass can't be that stupid....I thought Hundley was gonna be released outright by the Cubs after his AWFUL two years there -- he hit .211 last season and was booed unmercifully at home to the point where I think Bruce Kimm intentionally tried to play him more on the road to keep Todd from the embarrassment....maybe the Dodgers think they can revive his career somehow -- come to think of it, Hundley did play in LA briefly after his one or two good years with the Mets (the only decent seasons of his entire career which he parlayed into a HUGE contract in Chicago)....his days as a #1 catcher are definitely behind him IMHO and the Dodgers gave up WAY too much in this deal!
Even though you should be happy to get rid of Hundley's excess baggage (not to mention his overpaid contract) I think you're right CubsFan -- there's GOT to be more to this trade than meets the eye.....hopefully all the Outsporters in SoCal will keep us informed of the scuttlebut in the local media now.
[QB]Huh?
Cubs Trade Hundley to Dodgers for Karros, Grudzielanek
Must be part of a three way trade. Has to be. [QUOTE]
Even the Dodgers brass can't be that stupid....I thought Hundley was gonna be released outright by the Cubs after his AWFUL two years there -- he hit .211 last season and was booed unmercifully at home to the point where I think Bruce Kimm intentionally tried to play him more on the road to keep Todd from the embarrassment....maybe the Dodgers think they can revive his career somehow -- come to think of it, Hundley did play in LA briefly after his one or two good years with the Mets (the only decent seasons of his entire career which he parlayed into a HUGE contract in Chicago)....his days as a #1 catcher are definitely behind him IMHO and the Dodgers gave up WAY too much in this deal!
Even though you should be happy to get rid of Hundley's excess baggage (not to mention his overpaid contract) I think you're right CubsFan -- there's GOT to be more to this trade than meets the eye.....hopefully all the Outsporters in SoCal will keep us informed of the scuttlebut in the local media now.
[quote]Originally posted by gamecock:
Even the Dodgers brass can't be that stupid...
This was a salary dump trade. The Dodgers dump two bad contracts (Karros, Grudzeilanek) and only have to take on one (Hundley) in return. Karros's days as a starting first baseman are long over and the Dodgers have been trying to rid themselves of Grudzeilanek's poisonous contract for a few years. They only had to relieve the Cubs of responsibility for Hundley to get rid of these two bad contracts and to free up some money to sign a free agent. Supposedly, they are targetting Cliff Floyd.
It's a great trade for the Dodgers. It's stupid for the Cubs. It's a sign that Dusty Baker wants to surround himself with VERY veteran players. I'm worried that they will feel the need to play Grudzeilanek, given that they will pay him so much. Yeah, he's cute as the proverbial button, but he could block the development of rookie Bobby Hill, the Cubs second baseman of the future.
This trade is about bad contracts. It's not about an exchange of viable talent.
After I posted this, I saw on espn.com that Rob Neyer already had made the exact same analysis - right down to the comment about Dusty liking his players older than the George Allen R*dsk*ns -- Neyer's quickie analysis is the sidebar on the right side of this linked page -- geez, I feel like some sports analysis version of Doris Kearns Goodwin.
[ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: Charlie in the Trees ]
Even the Dodgers brass can't be that stupid...
This was a salary dump trade. The Dodgers dump two bad contracts (Karros, Grudzeilanek) and only have to take on one (Hundley) in return. Karros's days as a starting first baseman are long over and the Dodgers have been trying to rid themselves of Grudzeilanek's poisonous contract for a few years. They only had to relieve the Cubs of responsibility for Hundley to get rid of these two bad contracts and to free up some money to sign a free agent. Supposedly, they are targetting Cliff Floyd.
It's a great trade for the Dodgers. It's stupid for the Cubs. It's a sign that Dusty Baker wants to surround himself with VERY veteran players. I'm worried that they will feel the need to play Grudzeilanek, given that they will pay him so much. Yeah, he's cute as the proverbial button, but he could block the development of rookie Bobby Hill, the Cubs second baseman of the future.
This trade is about bad contracts. It's not about an exchange of viable talent.
After I posted this, I saw on espn.com that Rob Neyer already had made the exact same analysis - right down to the comment about Dusty liking his players older than the George Allen R*dsk*ns -- Neyer's quickie analysis is the sidebar on the right side of this linked page -- geez, I feel like some sports analysis version of Doris Kearns Goodwin.
[ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: Charlie in the Trees ]
There was talk here in Chicago last night that the Cubs would, and please forgive me for not remembering all of the names, use Karros as part of a deal to Montreal for three players. A second baseman and reliever I belive. And then use some of those players to get Denny Neagle and someone else from the Rockies.
Sorry for not paying all that much attention to the names. I was too busy salivating over the thought of having Eric Karros here fulltime.
Sorry for not paying all that much attention to the names. I was too busy salivating over the thought of having Eric Karros here fulltime.
Here's a little bit more of an explanation of my previous post. It's from today's Chicago Sun-Times:
The Cubs are expected to pursue other deals, with the Montreal Expos among the potential partners. The Cubs covet starting pitcher Javier Vazquez and second baseman Jose Vidro and will consider parting with some pitching if a workable deal arises. But the Cubs have no interest in Expos third baseman Fernando Tatis, as has been reported in some circles, nor have they held talks with the Colorado Rockies, as other reports have suggested.
The Cubs are expected to pursue other deals, with the Montreal Expos among the potential partners. The Cubs covet starting pitcher Javier Vazquez and second baseman Jose Vidro and will consider parting with some pitching if a workable deal arises. But the Cubs have no interest in Expos third baseman Fernando Tatis, as has been reported in some circles, nor have they held talks with the Colorado Rockies, as other reports have suggested.
Well this seemed to come out of nowhere. The Reds and Padres apparently agreed to a trade that would have sent Ken Griffey, Jr. to San Diego for Phil Nevin. The deal fell through because Nevin wouldn't waive his no-trade clause. Frankly I'm puzzled as to what the Padres were thinking. From ESPN.com:
[quote]CINCINNATI -- Cincinnati Reds general manager Jim Bowden is staying mum about any efforts by the team to trade Ken Griffey Jr.
Bowden said Friday that he has no trade talks in process with the Padres. He declined to specifically discuss any effort to trade Griffey.
The All-Star center fielder came to Cincinnati in a February 2000 trade with Seattle. But the 33-year-old Griffey has been hobbled by injuries during the past two seasons and his production has fallen off.
He played in 111 games for the Reds last year and only 70 this year.
The Reds and San Diego Padres agreed to trade Griffey for infielder-outfielder Phil Nevin last weekend, but the deal collapsed when Nevin wouldn't waive his no-trade clause. Nevin said he told the Padres that he wants to stay in San Diego because of family reasons.
Griffey has six years remaining on a nine-year deal with the Reds worth $117.5 million
[quote]CINCINNATI -- Cincinnati Reds general manager Jim Bowden is staying mum about any efforts by the team to trade Ken Griffey Jr.
Bowden said Friday that he has no trade talks in process with the Padres. He declined to specifically discuss any effort to trade Griffey.
The All-Star center fielder came to Cincinnati in a February 2000 trade with Seattle. But the 33-year-old Griffey has been hobbled by injuries during the past two seasons and his production has fallen off.
He played in 111 games for the Reds last year and only 70 this year.
The Reds and San Diego Padres agreed to trade Griffey for infielder-outfielder Phil Nevin last weekend, but the deal collapsed when Nevin wouldn't waive his no-trade clause. Nevin said he told the Padres that he wants to stay in San Diego because of family reasons.
Griffey has six years remaining on a nine-year deal with the Reds worth $117.5 million
Trade winds at the winter meetings...
A free-agent signing: Edgardo Alfonzo leaves the Mets. He signs with the Giants for 4 years, $26 million.
A four-team trade! Arizona sends 1B Erubiel Durazo to Oakland. Oakland sends a player (and possibly a second one as well) to be named to Toronto. Toronto sends SS Felipe Lopez to Cincinnati. Cincinnati sends P Elmer Dessens to Arizona. The D-backs are going to count on Mark Grace for another year.
The Mets traded Rey Ordonez to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for two players to be named. Now Rey will let us know if the 12 or so Tampa fans are stupid.
Jeremy Giambi goes from the Phils to the Red Sox for P Josh Hancock--another young arm to add to the mix for the Phils.
The Padres send P Brett Tomko to St. Louis for P Luther Hackman and a player to be named.
As for the Expos' fire sale 2003: there's a report on ESPN.com that says they've asked the Yankees for 1B Nick Johnson, OF Juan Rivera, P Orlando Hernandez and a prospect, and the Yanks to pay Hernandez' salary, for either Bartolo Colon or Javier Vazquez. If the Yanks make a deal, they'll let Roger Clemens walk.
A free-agent signing: Edgardo Alfonzo leaves the Mets. He signs with the Giants for 4 years, $26 million.
A four-team trade! Arizona sends 1B Erubiel Durazo to Oakland. Oakland sends a player (and possibly a second one as well) to be named to Toronto. Toronto sends SS Felipe Lopez to Cincinnati. Cincinnati sends P Elmer Dessens to Arizona. The D-backs are going to count on Mark Grace for another year.
The Mets traded Rey Ordonez to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for two players to be named. Now Rey will let us know if the 12 or so Tampa fans are stupid.
Jeremy Giambi goes from the Phils to the Red Sox for P Josh Hancock--another young arm to add to the mix for the Phils.
The Padres send P Brett Tomko to St. Louis for P Luther Hackman and a player to be named.
As for the Expos' fire sale 2003: there's a report on ESPN.com that says they've asked the Yankees for 1B Nick Johnson, OF Juan Rivera, P Orlando Hernandez and a prospect, and the Yanks to pay Hernandez' salary, for either Bartolo Colon or Javier Vazquez. If the Yanks make a deal, they'll let Roger Clemens walk.
So Jason and Jeremy Giambi will play for the Yankees and the Red Sox, respectively. Should make for interesting Thanksgivings at Mr. and Mrs. Giambi's household.
Given the levels the free-agent market seems to be settling at, it seems to me the Giants may have overpaid a bit for Fonzie, who's had a shadow of himself the past two seasons.
apparently the Yankee - Expos talk have broken down over the Good Guys refusal to pay El Duque's salary next year. The Expos are now talking to the Red Sox about a deal for Colon in which the Sox would also take on Fernando Tatis and his $6MM salary.
Given the levels the free-agent market seems to be settling at, it seems to me the Giants may have overpaid a bit for Fonzie, who's had a shadow of himself the past two seasons.
apparently the Yankee - Expos talk have broken down over the Good Guys refusal to pay El Duque's salary next year. The Expos are now talking to the Red Sox about a deal for Colon in which the Sox would also take on Fernando Tatis and his $6MM salary.
Bartolo, we hardly knew ye.
Now, do we start spelling "El Duque" with the accent aigu, "El Duqué?"
Now, do we start spelling "El Duque" with the accent aigu, "El Duqué?"
[quote]Originally posted by WhiteSoxFan:
There is a God!!!
Not as long as Reinsdorf owns the team, there isn't.
There is a God!!!
Not as long as Reinsdorf owns the team, there isn't.
[quote]Originally posted by Ump25:
Not as long as Reinsdorf owns the team, there isn't.
Well, Ump.... loan me a few million bucks and I'll make you Vice President of Baseball Operations or something....
Not as long as Reinsdorf owns the team, there isn't.
Well, Ump.... loan me a few million bucks and I'll make you Vice President of Baseball Operations or something....
I'm so glad the Mariners didn't end up with a sorry yankee hand-me-down like "El Duque", who obviously didn't impress "king steinbrenner" enough to keep, so i'm not sure why another team with post-season dreams would want him. Also, as far as the new yankee star Hideki Matsui, he was practically stolen by the yank$ from several other teams who could have acquired him, but weren't as greedy or as ruthless as the yanks. It seems that they're still trying to buy their way into yet another world series; when the fact is, they will end up an embarrassing failure in the post-season. BTW,I'm not anti-New York, I think the Mets are OK(probably better in 2003). It's just the yanks that are tired!!!
[ January 18, 2003: Message edited by: SeaMarFan ]
[ January 18, 2003: Message edited by: SeaMarFan ]
First the Reds tried to trade Junior to the Padres. That deal fell through But now ESPN.com is reporting that Peter Angelos has given his front office personnel permission to take on Griffey's $79 million/6 year contract.
Not sure if the Orioles have anything the Reds would want in return. But if the Reds really want out of the Griffey situation, they may settle for less than originally planned. The Baltimore press is reporting that the Orioles would offer P Sidney Ponson and one or two prospects. Can't see the Reds going for that.
Not sure if the Orioles have anything the Reds would want in return. But if the Reds really want out of the Griffey situation, they may settle for less than originally planned. The Baltimore press is reporting that the Orioles would offer P Sidney Ponson and one or two prospects. Can't see the Reds going for that.
The heck with the REDS agreeing to the deal, George -- even the new Orioles co-GM's (how's that for idiocy? 
), Mike Flanagan and Jim Beattie, aren't foolish enough to pick up a $79 Million contract for a player that hit a total of EIGHT home runs last season and is WAY past his prime....this evening on WBAL, the O's longtime local radio affiliate, the announcers confirmed that despite Angelos' willingness to pay "whatever is necessary" to improve the club he is ONLY willing to do that for the RIGHT PLAYER and Griffey is NOT coming to Baltimore, despite what the talking heads on ESPN claim....geez, why didn't Angelos adhere to this policy during the past five years before he single-handedly turned the ballclub into the laughing stock of the AL? (well, make that 2nd most laughable anyway -- thank God for Tampa Bay)....could it be that he is now reconciled to the fact that the Expos are moving to DC/NoVa next season whether he continues to intentionally deplete his product on the field and reduce his own attedance or not?
There are plenty of younger, talented players that still have a number of productive years AHEAD of them that Angelos/Flanagan/Beattie would be wise to consider obtaining but picking up the whining, unproductive Griffey would be as bad of an acquisition as signing Albert Belle was....besides, from the looks of their projected rotation, the O's should concentrate on trading for a quality starting pitcher (or two) before looking for more offensive help -- when Omar Daal is supposedly your #2 starter, you know you're gonna give up a LOT of runs....then again, the Birds can't do much worse than they did in the final 36 games of last season when they went 4-32 eek! - can they?
), Mike Flanagan and Jim Beattie, aren't foolish enough to pick up a $79 Million contract for a player that hit a total of EIGHT home runs last season and is WAY past his prime....this evening on WBAL, the O's longtime local radio affiliate, the announcers confirmed that despite Angelos' willingness to pay "whatever is necessary" to improve the club he is ONLY willing to do that for the RIGHT PLAYER and Griffey is NOT coming to Baltimore, despite what the talking heads on ESPN claim....geez, why didn't Angelos adhere to this policy during the past five years before he single-handedly turned the ballclub into the laughing stock of the AL? (well, make that 2nd most laughable anyway -- thank God for Tampa Bay)....could it be that he is now reconciled to the fact that the Expos are moving to DC/NoVa next season whether he continues to intentionally deplete his product on the field and reduce his own attedance or not?There are plenty of younger, talented players that still have a number of productive years AHEAD of them that Angelos/Flanagan/Beattie would be wise to consider obtaining but picking up the whining, unproductive Griffey would be as bad of an acquisition as signing Albert Belle was....besides, from the looks of their projected rotation, the O's should concentrate on trading for a quality starting pitcher (or two) before looking for more offensive help -- when Omar Daal is supposedly your #2 starter, you know you're gonna give up a LOT of runs....then again, the Birds can't do much worse than they did in the final 36 games of last season when they went 4-32 eek! - can they?
PLEASE say it isnt so. We don't want Griffey or even worse Jeremy Bernitz. There are several other "power" hitters that the Orioles could spend so cash on. Maybe Beltran or Sweeney from the Royals. Guess its impossible now but Burrell from the Phillies. Or lets just finish the deal and bring Vladimar back home to the DC area. Guerreo would be perfert for the O's
If Griffey is healthy, I think he's FAR from washed up... and I'm the one who told everyone in the mid '90s that Bonds was easily the greater player. Of course, the O's aren't winning anything in the near future, so whether it's an advisable pickup is debatable.
Gamecock, re Albert Belle -- know who's the ONLY post-World War II player to have 100+ RBI in 9 straight seasons? That's right, Albert the Unpopular. Funny that he'll never be in the HOF.
Gamecock, re Albert Belle -- know who's the ONLY post-World War II player to have 100+ RBI in 9 straight seasons? That's right, Albert the Unpopular. Funny that he'll never be in the HOF.
I don't know if this the proper thread, but does anyone know what happen to Chuck Knoblauch? I know his star faded somewhat,but I liked him. KC released him but I didn't see if anyone picked him up......mmmmmmmm I could do that myself 
Oh wait.....I couldn't do that to my Javy
Dang.... so many baseball players...only nine innings...
Oh wait.....I couldn't do that to my Javy
Dang.... so many baseball players...only nine innings...
Doesn't look like Knoblauch's on any team's roster.
Speaking of which, there was one going around Clearwater at the end of spring training: Phils would trade Jimmy Rollins and Brett Myers to Oakland for Miguel Tejada. The Phils denied the rumor...but it's kind of intriguing.
Speaking of which, there was one going around Clearwater at the end of spring training: Phils would trade Jimmy Rollins and Brett Myers to Oakland for Miguel Tejada. The Phils denied the rumor...but it's kind of intriguing.
QUOTE
Joe in Philly:
Doesn't look like Knoblauch's on any team's roster.
Thanks Joe ...
Doesn't look like Knoblauch's on any team's roster.
Looks like the Gonzalez deal is off, I guess the fears of NL and AstroTurf are stronger than the allure of playing meaningful baseball.
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