I have no idea whether to believe Selig or not. I'm leaning more toward assuming he's continuing his satanic scare tactics. from ESPN.com:
NEW YORK -- As baseball prepared to resume labor negotiations following an All-Star break dominated by talk of strike, steroids and stalemate, commissioner Bud Selig claimed a team may not be able to make payroll Monday.
Selig made the comment during an interview Wednesday in Milwaukee with the Houston Chronicle and other papers, saying during the session that a second team had so much debt that it might not finish the season.
Selig did not identify the teams he was referring to, and there was no way to corroborate his claims.
The Houston Chronicle reported in Thursday's editions that Selig might have arranged to keep the Arizona Diamondbacks and Tampa Bay Devil Rays alive financially this past winter, according to its industry sources. The commissioner didn't name which teams are in financial trouble, but said one of them "will surprise you," according to the paper.
Reached at his home Wednesday night, Selig refused to discuss the subject.
"I'm done. Major league baseball's credit lines are at the maximum,'' Selig was quoted as saying in the Chronicle. "We've done everything we can to help people by arranging credit lines. Frankly, at this point in time, we don't have that luxury anymore.
"If a club can't make it, I have to let 'em go. I'm a traditionalist, and I hate all that. It pains me to do it. I just don't have any more alternatives.''
The talks are to resume Thursday.
Full Version: More scare tactics by Selig???
Three possible scenarios: (a) Bud's lying, (
Bud's an idiot, or © both.
After every big baseball event, the Ugliest Man in America (now wearing designer clothing!) feels compelled to remind people just how awful the state of baseball is and how every fan (except the ones in New York) are on the verge of having their team yanked away from them. After a great World Series, Bud immediately had to talk contraction. Now, after the All Star Game, Bud feels the need to say two teams are in imminent danger of going out of business and that one of them "will surprise" us.
Most likely, he's lying, probably for purposes of the negotiations.
But let's say it's true. It proves once again how fundamentally idiotic Ugly Bud is. If the crisis is true, it couldn't have happened over night. Baseball had to know about it in the off-season. So if one's surprising, then obviously we're not talking about Les Expos and the Twinks. And neither of the Floridas, the Marlins and the D-Rays, would be a surprise, either. So, if this is true -- that there are two teams in such dire financial trouble that there's a possibililty that they'll have to pull a WFL and go out of business mid-season -- WHY WEREN'T THESE TWO TEAMS THE CONTRACTION CANDIDATES??
Which means that the answer is, once again, Bud Selig is a lying idiot. The so-called crisis is not real, Bud's a liar, but once again he's stupidly sabotaging fan interest in the game.
And if he's not lying ... I do hope one of the teams are Daughter Wendy's Brewers!
Bud's an idiot, or © both.After every big baseball event, the Ugliest Man in America (now wearing designer clothing!) feels compelled to remind people just how awful the state of baseball is and how every fan (except the ones in New York) are on the verge of having their team yanked away from them. After a great World Series, Bud immediately had to talk contraction. Now, after the All Star Game, Bud feels the need to say two teams are in imminent danger of going out of business and that one of them "will surprise" us.
Most likely, he's lying, probably for purposes of the negotiations.
But let's say it's true. It proves once again how fundamentally idiotic Ugly Bud is. If the crisis is true, it couldn't have happened over night. Baseball had to know about it in the off-season. So if one's surprising, then obviously we're not talking about Les Expos and the Twinks. And neither of the Floridas, the Marlins and the D-Rays, would be a surprise, either. So, if this is true -- that there are two teams in such dire financial trouble that there's a possibililty that they'll have to pull a WFL and go out of business mid-season -- WHY WEREN'T THESE TWO TEAMS THE CONTRACTION CANDIDATES??
Which means that the answer is, once again, Bud Selig is a lying idiot. The so-called crisis is not real, Bud's a liar, but once again he's stupidly sabotaging fan interest in the game.
And if he's not lying ... I do hope one of the teams are Daughter Wendy's Brewers!
An interesting 'take' in the Thursday NYTimes:
This Ship Needs to Find a Lifeguard
By WILLIAM C. RHODEN
BASEBALL is the Titanic.
Except this ship sails over and over and over again. With Commissioner Selig at the helm, baseball sails and sinks, sails and sinks. The game sinks and miraculously resurfaces. Baseball has run for too long on the good graces of history, the silly myth of innocence. Baseball has received too many intentional walks; I'm all for throwing some brushback pitches.
The entire article is linked HERE (Reg. Req. etc)
This Ship Needs to Find a Lifeguard
By WILLIAM C. RHODEN
BASEBALL is the Titanic.
Except this ship sails over and over and over again. With Commissioner Selig at the helm, baseball sails and sinks, sails and sinks. The game sinks and miraculously resurfaces. Baseball has run for too long on the good graces of history, the silly myth of innocence. Baseball has received too many intentional walks; I'm all for throwing some brushback pitches.
The entire article is linked HERE (Reg. Req. etc)
I wonder how often Bud Selig can yell "wolf" & still be believed? This seemingly overnight financial calamity facing "a surprising" franchise is absolute bull. It does seem that he continues to do whatever he can to harm the game and with each of his actions fosters even more distrust in the hearts & minds of the fans, the players, the media, and (it is to be hoped) sensible owners.
~Adam
~Adam
[quote]Originally posted by Wurm:
An interesting 'take' in the Thursday NYTimes:
This Ship Needs to Find a Lifeguard
By WILLIAM C. RHODEN
I read it a little while ago, and the end is the part that interested me:
[quote] Baseball needs help. Outside help. This is the natural spot for President Bush to come in from the bullpen, throw some high heat and save this game for the home team. With the financial world rocked by one scandal after another, the president could use a tangible domestic triumph. Bringing owners and players to the table and forging enduring peace would ensure a domestic legacy no president has been able to achieve.
The first 86 games of the 1972 season were canceled by a 14-day strike, and in 1981 a 50-day walkout by players in the middle of the season forced the cancellation of 712 games. In 1985, there was a two-day strike and in 1990, players were locked out for 32 days.
That year, Bush's father, who was president at the time, refused to intervene. Bill Clinton tried and failed to spur the two sides to an agreement in 1994, when the end of the regular season and the postseason were canceled.
Things are different now. President Bush has the context of history on his side, the imprimatur of a patriotic cause: national unity in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11.
The president of the United States may be the one person the players union and the owners cannot bully — not at this point in time. If I were the president, I'd drag both sides to the table and tell them, "Baseball will not be on strike this fall when we commemorate the anniversary of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks."
True, the president is not a union person, but the players union — a collection of so many millionaires — is not a union as we normally think of one.
When Selig decided not to let the All-Star Game play itself out, he in effect announced that baseball has embraced self-interest over fan interest. Politicians understand self-interest, Bush more than most. In baseball he has an opportunity to create his own shot.
The president has roots in baseball, as a former owner of the Texas Rangers.
These are not Middle East negotiations. This is baseball, a game that settles for ties. A ship that sails and sinks and sails again.
Maybe the president can help the ship stay afloat.
I'd particularly like an emphasis on this: "Baseball will not be on strike this fall when we commemorate the anniversary of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks." But, the problem with that is, they could always set a strike date for later in September. So I'd make it clear that they must come to an agreement by that date.
An interesting 'take' in the Thursday NYTimes:
This Ship Needs to Find a Lifeguard
By WILLIAM C. RHODEN
I read it a little while ago, and the end is the part that interested me:
[quote] Baseball needs help. Outside help. This is the natural spot for President Bush to come in from the bullpen, throw some high heat and save this game for the home team. With the financial world rocked by one scandal after another, the president could use a tangible domestic triumph. Bringing owners and players to the table and forging enduring peace would ensure a domestic legacy no president has been able to achieve.
The first 86 games of the 1972 season were canceled by a 14-day strike, and in 1981 a 50-day walkout by players in the middle of the season forced the cancellation of 712 games. In 1985, there was a two-day strike and in 1990, players were locked out for 32 days.
That year, Bush's father, who was president at the time, refused to intervene. Bill Clinton tried and failed to spur the two sides to an agreement in 1994, when the end of the regular season and the postseason were canceled.
Things are different now. President Bush has the context of history on his side, the imprimatur of a patriotic cause: national unity in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11.
The president of the United States may be the one person the players union and the owners cannot bully — not at this point in time. If I were the president, I'd drag both sides to the table and tell them, "Baseball will not be on strike this fall when we commemorate the anniversary of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks."
True, the president is not a union person, but the players union — a collection of so many millionaires — is not a union as we normally think of one.
When Selig decided not to let the All-Star Game play itself out, he in effect announced that baseball has embraced self-interest over fan interest. Politicians understand self-interest, Bush more than most. In baseball he has an opportunity to create his own shot.
The president has roots in baseball, as a former owner of the Texas Rangers.
These are not Middle East negotiations. This is baseball, a game that settles for ties. A ship that sails and sinks and sails again.
Maybe the president can help the ship stay afloat.
I'd particularly like an emphasis on this: "Baseball will not be on strike this fall when we commemorate the anniversary of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks." But, the problem with that is, they could always set a strike date for later in September. So I'd make it clear that they must come to an agreement by that date.
Okay I'm an idiot regarding baseball commissionership things, but is this guy dictator for life, or what? Why is he still the commissioner, and what's it going to take to get rid of him?
The owners could oust him or at least force him to resign as they did Fay Vincent. In fact Selig was a major schemer in that maneuver. Not sure what percentage of vote they need though. At any rate, the notion of the owners booting Bud is, at this stage, out of the question.
Why is it so hard for us to believe this? Would these teams not have a significant revenue shortage due to the attendance issues?
We have to remember, baseball is a business and your profitability is not guaranteed. They have simply spent more than they have earned and it's caught up with them.
If something doesn't change and change fast, you can put a fork in half of the major league teams because they are done.
We have to remember, baseball is a business and your profitability is not guaranteed. They have simply spent more than they have earned and it's caught up with them.
If something doesn't change and change fast, you can put a fork in half of the major league teams because they are done.
The Saint Paul Saints minor league club has found a unique way to "honor" Bud Blight .....
SP Saints Site
[ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: Wurm ]
SP Saints Site
[ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: Wurm ]
Wurm, you beat me to the punch. In announcing "tie night", the Saints' front office said
[quote]
"In addition to suspending our club policy which restricts the appearance of neckties on the premises*, weve petitioned the league to... have all our games end in tie scores. We thereby reduce the risk of anyone getting hurt physically or emotionally by the random vagaries associated with on-field losses or extra innings.
* If you show up in a tie, the ushers will cut it in half. A laff a minute, those Saints. The team motto is "Fun is Good."
Last month's promo was a whoopie cushion honoring Bud Selig and Don Fehr.
The St Paul Saints are one of 16 teams that make up the Northern League, which is independent of MLB. Love the concept!
[quote]
"In addition to suspending our club policy which restricts the appearance of neckties on the premises*, weve petitioned the league to... have all our games end in tie scores. We thereby reduce the risk of anyone getting hurt physically or emotionally by the random vagaries associated with on-field losses or extra innings.
* If you show up in a tie, the ushers will cut it in half. A laff a minute, those Saints. The team motto is "Fun is Good."
Last month's promo was a whoopie cushion honoring Bud Selig and Don Fehr.
The St Paul Saints are one of 16 teams that make up the Northern League, which is independent of MLB. Love the concept!
Well, the truth is out: Bud for once wasn't lying. The Tampa Bay Devil Rays and Detroit Tigers had to secure loans to meet payroll. More on this available at the NY Times sports page.
A bit from the article:
2 Teams Faced Close Call on Payroll
By MURRAY CHASS
As baseball officials and owners paint an increasingly bleaker picture of baseball's economics, two teams have stepped forward as Exhibits A and B. The Tampa Bay Devil Rays and the Detroit Tigers recently experienced payroll problems and needed bank loans to pay their players, people in baseball familiar with the problems said yesterday.
Advertisement
Both teams said they have had no trouble meeting their payrolls, but the people who disclosed the developments provided specific details of how the Devil Rays and the Tigers resolved their problems and averted being plunged into uncharted financial territory.
Players are paid twice monthly, and it was the June 15 payment the Devil Rays and the Tigers were having trouble with, the people who told about it said. The Tigers, one of them said, also faced a problem with next Monday's payroll but worked out that one, too.
Bob DuPuy, chief operating officer of Major League Baseball, declined to comment on the identity of the teams or their specific problems, but he said, "I believe any issues with regard to meeting expenses currently have been resolved and that there's no immediate problem for any team."
He added that any problems that might have existed were "a matter of cash flow and ongoing expenses."
A bit from the article:
2 Teams Faced Close Call on Payroll
By MURRAY CHASS
As baseball officials and owners paint an increasingly bleaker picture of baseball's economics, two teams have stepped forward as Exhibits A and B. The Tampa Bay Devil Rays and the Detroit Tigers recently experienced payroll problems and needed bank loans to pay their players, people in baseball familiar with the problems said yesterday.
Advertisement
Both teams said they have had no trouble meeting their payrolls, but the people who disclosed the developments provided specific details of how the Devil Rays and the Tigers resolved their problems and averted being plunged into uncharted financial territory.
Players are paid twice monthly, and it was the June 15 payment the Devil Rays and the Tigers were having trouble with, the people who told about it said. The Tigers, one of them said, also faced a problem with next Monday's payroll but worked out that one, too.
Bob DuPuy, chief operating officer of Major League Baseball, declined to comment on the identity of the teams or their specific problems, but he said, "I believe any issues with regard to meeting expenses currently have been resolved and that there's no immediate problem for any team."
He added that any problems that might have existed were "a matter of cash flow and ongoing expenses."
I see this as a tempest in a teapot - the final, single sentence paragraph seems to say it all:
"Teams often borrow money during the season to cover expenses or new payroll additions'
I seem to recall that within the last two years Jery Colangelo had to make "calls" to his Diamondback limited partners to put in more money to meet operating costs.
"Teams often borrow money during the season to cover expenses or new payroll additions'
I seem to recall that within the last two years Jery Colangelo had to make "calls" to his Diamondback limited partners to put in more money to meet operating costs.
If a team really was in danger of not making payroll, the obvious thing to do to show the condition of baseball would be to let them miss it.
It makes Bud Selig look even worse to say that a team won't make payroll and then they do.
It makes Bud Selig look even worse to say that a team won't make payroll and then they do.
UPDATE: This espn.com article from Aug 17 2000 describes a Diamondbacks loan guaranteed by MLB (and also confirms two "cash calls" to the partners that I alluded to above)
Article
[ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: Wurm ]
Article
[ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: Wurm ]
There is an interesting article in the Friday July 12 edition of the Wall Street Journal about Bud Selig. I think you can probably access it at wsj.com but it might require membership. Anyway, it basically says that Bud Selig is not so far off base (no pun intended) with his financial warnings about MLB. Try and read it, it presents a different perspective.
In the print version of the Journal, it's in the Personal Journal section.
In the print version of the Journal, it's in the Personal Journal section.
billsf - thanks for pointing out the article. On your recommendation I picked up a print copy of yesterday's Journal, and the well-written, even-handed article (by Sam Walker) points out some of the franchise valuation and cash-flow issues that, in our downward-spirialing economy, undermine some of the fianacial assumptions that have "worked" up to now.
The first line of the article is is worth quoting:
If public relations is an art, somebody needs to find Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig and take away his crayons.
Re my posts above, the article also confirmed Jerry Colangelo's two calls to the limited partners to ante up money - something I didn't realize was that some of the 29 limited partners refused (the article does not say, but I assumed they sold back their shares and dropped out of the partnership)......
[ July 13, 2002: Message edited by: Wurm ]
The first line of the article is is worth quoting:
If public relations is an art, somebody needs to find Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig and take away his crayons.
Re my posts above, the article also confirmed Jerry Colangelo's two calls to the limited partners to ante up money - something I didn't realize was that some of the 29 limited partners refused (the article does not say, but I assumed they sold back their shares and dropped out of the partnership)......
[ July 13, 2002: Message edited by: Wurm ]
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.