I am hoping we can discuss this without it degenerating into attacks on specific people...

It occurs to me, after the editing of a post to remove the first two words from the phrase "cock suckin' bitch," that it might be a good idea to discuss language.

The discussion board guidelines refer to inappropriate behavior, personal attacks on other members, and the like, but don't have anything about specific words or phrases that shouldn't be used. The comment above wasn't directed at another member, but at Tom Brady. Does it fall under "inappropriate behavior" to make negative comments about public figures? Because we certainly have many negative comments about all kinds of public figures, such as Michael Jackson. Or is it the specific words involved?

If it is about those words, then what about other words? The word "bitch" is thrown around a lot. I imagine some people aren't happy about that. There are other words that some would find offensive used on the board as well. Is it a matter of the context in which such words are used (for example, saying so-and-so is a bitch as compared to saying that someone was bitching and moaning about something)?

Some people find all foul language objectionable, some would consider removing any bad words to be censorship, and others fall between the two extremes. Is there a way to satisfy everyone, at least to some extent?

No one who knows me would call me a prude. That said, 'cock sucking bitch' is as offensive as 'faggot', and I think really while not advocating censorship, people should exercise for themselves some restraints and judgement. I think people get caught up in the board and don't really think about the way things come across, then we spend all that time making up, 'didn't mean to offend..' I am at times shocked at some of the posting in the Eagles Rally thread for example.

Not sure one could come up with comprehensive guidelines. But Cyd, the moderators and myself all found "cock sucking" objectionable in that instance since it was meant as a total pejorative and one could read it as the kind of insult hurled at gay people all the time.

Lordy, lordy...what in the world did I miss?

I will say this, however - there is one person in particular who seems to engage in more frequent personal expletives. Those who know him will probably say that it's all in fun.

I am not defending him.

The mods are in contol of this board at their pleasure. If there are rules, people should abide them...or move to a new sandbox.

Recently I've noticed how often "Mecca" is used, and I've wondered if Muslims take offence to this. On a sports report yesterday I heard Jacksonville referred to as a "golf Mecca" and on this board I saw someone say that the Castro was no longer a "gay Mecca." Isn't there some other word we could use besides the name of a holy city to Islam? I mean, substitute another place name for "Mecca" (say, "Jerusalem"), and it seems rather silly: "With over NN courses nearby, Jacksonville is a golf Jerusalem."

Just a thought.

canmark, are you serious? "Mecca" as bad language? It's like the college I attended in Kentucky was referred to as the "Harvard of the South", or whatever the phrase was. Is 'mecca' ever in lowercase letters? Doesn't it have an alternative meaning which transcends/augments it's original? Like places are called the Paris of this or that, or athletes are called gods.

Well, I'm in an interesting position because I post frequently on two boards - here at Outsports and also at the Bangles' official chat board. There are a sweet ton of rules regarding conduct and language at the other board, largely because (1) it's associated directly with the band and they want to have control over their image and (2) because there are alot of younger kids there. (Believe it or not for a band that was popular in the 80s.) They have automatic censors on the board - you can't type anything more offensive than "ass" or it comes up as &*&^*^.

Here, the situation is diffent. The board caters to a primarily adult audience who can handle language. Language in and of itself is not offensive - most people swear every day - it's the context of the language that's so important. The "cock sucking bitch" comment is a prime example and the moderators here clearly recognized the context of the language as offensive. I'd say it's best to appreciate the freedom we have as adults here, even if that means tolerating the occasional abuse of that freedom in terms of conduct, becase the board is expertly moderated and in good hands.

Things can go too far in either direction, after all. And (I'm sorry Canmark because I think you are one of the absolute nicest people on Outsports) the "mecca" argument is a prime example. If you look up the word mecca in the dictionary, the first definition is not one of religious context but rather "a place that is regarded as the center of an activity or interest." Perfectly legitimate use of the word but you can see how easily it lends itself to overthinking and being too politically correct.

I guess my point is that, so long as we're not being derogatory in context, then as adults we should be capable of handling the language and freedoms available on Outsports.

:cool:

G4G, nice post. The company for which I work developed an intranet for its empployees to share information and "amusing conversations" (they actually used that phrase...go figure.) When certain employees complained about language, a small ad hoc committee was formed to come up with guidelines governing such communications. The original consensus--Act like a responsible adult--was too vague, but we didn't want to fashion a laundry list of dos & don'ts. The best we came up with was behave as if in a room filled with some friends and some strangers whose standards one doesn't know. Use language appropriate for both friends and stangers; it forces a writer to think before posting and may even broaden one's vocabulary.

~Adam

Adam, some people don't care how others, friends or strangers, Mother or priest, take their words--"That's their problem. This is my freedom of expression."

I agree that some people don't care, but I think a good system is in place to handle that - the moderators do everything they can and every poster has the equal opportunity to "report" any post they feel crosses the line. I'm not sure there's much more to do but have faith in the system we have here ... the board is so alive with conversations, clearly so much is being done right.

G4G and Adam - great posts and I am in agreement. A week or so ago, I used the word "bullshit" in a post and immediately regretted doing so, but not enough to edit.

I usually try to read my posts before hitting the reply button and that might be a good rule of thumb for some folks to keep in mind.

All said, I applaud the Moderators for their professionalism and hope that we all (or most of us) continue to exercise restraint and realize that our words may offend others.

I occasionally post on an unofficial Eagles Board and they also have a mechanism in place that automatically changes "offensive" words as someone noted above.

The key to this discussion is to 1. Try and determine an appropriate definition of the word “objectionable.” and, 2. attempt to try to interpret the intent of some postings, taking into context the spirit in which the content was intended and the past history of the person making the post. Unfortunately, both are far more easily said than done.

Some people found the FOX TV show Married with Children offensive when it was originally aired. I did not. Some found the Janet Jackson halftime incident last year offensive. I did not. This list goes on and on.

I did find the use of the phrase "cock suckin” bitch not only particularly offensive, but extremely egregious given the setting and primary demographics of the populace of this message board. It’s likely the poster did not, and likely does not understand the scope of the impact those words have. Shore hit it on the head when he wrote “some people don't care how others, friends or strangers, Mother or priest, take their words--"That's their problem. This is my freedom of expression."” The words “lost cause” are starting to come to mind.

The members of this message board have a huge divergence of education, background, geographic location, writing skills and opinions. To attempt to define a “community standard” here on this board would be nearly impossible. How people on this board choose to respond to what they perceive is objectionable content, letting the population police themselves (tongue in cheek hockey reference for Joe) as we have been doing for some time now should continue. You can add the user to your ignore list. You can choose to respond by articulating your exception to what was posted. Let’s face it, the "cock suckin” bitch comment was an extreme exception to the majority of posts on this board, not the rule.

I do know one thing, the use of automatic censors on the board would be a royal pain in the @$$. I belong to a message board and can’t even type the name Dick Vermeil without it being censored.

We also can automatically censor certain words, but have chosen to not turn the function on. Though, it would be kind of fun to have "Eagles" come out as "E-----". wink

Seriously, we try to treat people as adults and usually err on the side of letting more in than not. We do not want to be nannies, but even we have our limits. I assume most people accept this and understand. We regularly get "moderator alerts" and agree with some and not with others, but all are carefully considered.

MECCA (technically all caps but in practice frequently not) was also, at one time, an acronym for Milwaukee Exposition and Convention Center and Arena. And no, I'm not making this up. (The Convention Center part looked like a Wickes warehouse and has since been replaced by that pig-in-a-dress called Midwest Express Center.)

OK, back to the %#&)@*&%@! topic.

Well, canmark definitely is one of the nicest people here! And he didn't say he took offense, but just wondered if some people did. And I'm assuming that definition of mecca came about because of the city of Mecca, and not vice versa.

Why, thank you!

As Joe said, I did wonder if Muslims took offense to the name of their holy city becoming a generic term for "a place that is regarded as the center of an activity or interest." I'm sure there are some young peole that don't even know that Mecca is a city--but only know it by it's other meaning. Also, it seems to be over-used. To call San Francisco or New York "gay meccas" is OK. But to call Jacksonville a "golf mecca," as I heard this sports reporter say, seems a bit of a stretch. I know he was trying to promote Jacksonville as part of his pre-SuperBowl coverage, but I don't believe that Jacksonville, Florida is the center of the golf world.

Aside: personally, I've decided to avoid over-using the word "mecca," much as I try to avoid the word "gyp" (to mean "rip off," as it is derrived from the word gypsy, and is a slander to gypsies, just as "Indian giver" or to "welch on a bet" are slanders to Indians and Welsh people).

Canmark, also avoid using terms such as "white elephant", "little white lie", "black Monday", "red-faced", and "yellow snow"....wait, nix that last one.

In the same way that the use of "mecca" may strike some as an offense to their beliefs, I know a few people who take umbrage with "Hail Mary" passes in fotball.

~Adam