Believe me I understand that some celebs like Blech Kapler should have a single thread. To that end, kudos. But damnation Tarkus, I don't know why I detect an almost Gestapo-like zeal in your messages related to the "lockin o' the threads."
Perhaps just my imagination, but I seem to come away with a very authoritarian tone from your various "I'm locking this thread, return to the original thread" dictums.
Were your parent mean to you? LOL.

I'm not trying to create any anarchy here, either, but my earlier mentioning of this topic (on the "Scott Rolen" forum) was met with derision followed by a DEMAND to not respond to this topic further on this board (only via direct e-mail when the Tarkus' response was publicly posted and not sent via private e-mail) along with an apology to the rest of the members saying "Sorry about that guys????!"....I'm still trying to figure out the purpose of those last four words since (excluding myself here) I thought the comments from outsports members (as long as they were done in a professional, non-personal manner which I have steadfastly tried to adhere to) on how this terrific site could possibly be improved was not only welcome but encouraged.....

Let me reiterate that I have NO problem whatsoever eliminating duplicate threads on the same topic (in fact, they annoy me as much as anyone) but the consistency of Tarkus' respnses regarding forums involving animated debates amongst members with differing opinions has been EXTRAORDINARILY HARSH during the past week....as I previously stated, there is a fine line between encouraging spirited debate and outright censorship and, IMHO, that line seems to have been crossed on more than one occasion lately....Jim stated on the other forum that 90% of the role of the moderators is to eliminate duplicate threads (and comments of a personal attack in nature), both of which I fully support, but the role that has been taken by one of the moderators of late seem to be well beyond these boundaries....

I have not in the past and am NOT now trying to offend or personally attack anyone....I am not implying that I should have any say in how this outstanding site is run but, rather, am curious as to the opinion of any of the other fine outsports members that I have come to know via this board regarding this topic....I hope (for the reasons I have previously stated) that this thread will not be locked or eliminated and that free speech will be allowed to prevail.
Thanks in advance for your comments, guys.

:

[ October 09, 2001: Message edited by: gamecock ]

Gee whiz, thought I was the only one who had noticed Tarkus' military rule. .

My last post on Jeff Probst's thread was met with inimical comment. Whoa, I can't mention any other name, but, Jeff?

Tarkus, know you're just doin' your job. But, seeing you all over the boards, with one stern message, beats the hell out of me.


*edited to include more gremlins*

[ October 09, 2001: Message edited by: tzeile29 ]

Well, I'm glad that others noticed this too. I was thinking that ghestopeque might be a bit strong, but it's certainly Draconian.

Trevor

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who's a little taken aback. I just saw a post that used strong words, but was not at all personal or offensive, gather an immediate online admonishment. I'm sure Tarkus is trying very hard, and we all appreciate it, but, dude, maybe you're starting off being a little TOO diligent? Just a thought......

It seems as though many of us are in agreement the Tarkus has taken his job very seriously. There is something to be said for a job well done, however one's duties can be overshot by zeal. I appreciate the effort to make for a more friendly bulletin board, but I feel Tarkus has interpretted more friendly as more controled. All I ask is that the board be a community not a commune or military camp.

Ok, maybe Tarkus is just a blunt person who says what's really on his mind without regard to how it might sound. While not an endearing trait, it gets the job done. And as a moderator, he does not really want to come across too mild.

Having said all that, I, too, have found his comments somewhat harsh. I think maybe in his desire to be forceful with the rules he was a bit too stern.

Being moderator is probably not an easy task. I wouldn't want the job. Maybe we can cut him some slack and maybe he can attempt to take a different tone and the world will be a happy place!

One of the reasons that I'm very happy that the board runs on UBB is that it does give board owners and moderators a lot of functions to keep the board "on-track" - the moving of "hottie tennis players" from the Tennis forum to the Hot Jock Talk forum (with a polite, single sentence and most importantly a direct link) is IMHO a stellar example of how board management should be executed.

Stern, no-nonsense talk from the "mods" DOES have its place, especialy in cases where the "lines in the sand" get crossed, for example vituperative personal attacks, slurs and people criticizing Drew Brees .....

As has been said above, it will take some shake-out time, however, we all are aware that early precedents sometimes grandfather themselves in. With that in mind, the OS admins know they have our support (and thanks) as they bring this board to its very high potenital .....

BUT -

I have one opinion - I think that the idea of "prepetual threads" for oft-repeated topics (Kapler et al) is a very good one (for the reasons stated), with ONE exception - the Non-Sports (OMNI) forum.

The entire nature of the off-topic forum is SUPPOSED to be a little "unorganized", a little-bit "rules-bending". While in no way do I suggest that anarchy be allowed to reign, I fear that a little of the flexibility and yes, even the fun of the OMNI thread is lost if attempts are made to have it be as regimented as the "on-subject" topics .......

---> Edited for Typo <---

[ October 09, 2001: Message edited by: Wurm ]

Hi: A bit about our moderators:

They are a huge help to us in keeping the board organized. They love Outsports and the board and are doing this without compensation.

I can see how some of the language may be somewhat off-putting to people. Trust us, when I say both Cyd and I know the moderators and know how cool they are. Some of the language is a reaction to the chaos that reigned on the old board, where all pleas fell on deaf ears.

Threads are almost always locked because there has already been a topic started on the particular subject. No one is being censored. Both moderators have been told to check with Cyd or I before deleting anything (unless there is a racist ot homophobic post that is offensive on its face; then can then act immediately).

This board is new to all of us, so we ask patience. We have had 85,000 views of the board this month so there are a lot of messages to wade through. E-mail us with any concerns you may have. I for one want to thank both moderators for giving of their time to make this all better.

Thanks
Jim

Wow, a whole thread about me!

I totally apologize for the harsh tone on some of my postings (the "there'll be no weekly Kapler thread" was totally unecessary). I spend a lot of time at a board where the moderators do not hesitate to tell people "If you don't like it, leave" and get really mad if you don't use the edit feature, for example. I need to adjust when I come here; I know it's a bit of a shock to go from almost no moderating on the old board (unless it got really nasty) to this dork Tarkus who shows up all over the place.

As Jim at Outsports mentioned in the Scott Rolen thread (?), it's all about needless duplication. I closed Cock of the Walk's about Barry Bonds because there was already 3 BB threads open, for example.

Tzeile29, I didn't mean to seem like I was singling you out in the Jeff Probst thread. Sorry if it felt that way.

It's a learning curve for me and I promise to do better. I love this board and I'm sorry if I hurt any feelings.

[ October 09, 2001: Message edited by: Tarkus ]

Thanks, tarkus, for being open to suggestion. To be quite honest, I've not been checking the board or as interested in posting since having seen some of your responses.

Hopefully, things will iron out soon!

Oh man! I just noticed that someone had already started a Survivor 3 thread on 10/4; so my thread of 10/7 is the duplication! I'll talk to Jim to see what to do about it; maybe it'll be Survival of the Fittest?

May be a lone voice in the woods here, but I SUPPORT YOU, Tarkus!

I have been to other boards that meander aimlessly, occasionally resurfacing to touch the subject at hand. Maybe it's the Absolut Mandarin (mmmmm) talking, but, please, Posters :cool: , take a moment to re-read the Topic Title before pressing "Add Reply" to be sure that the post is at least infinitesimally related to it. It's not about freedom of speech. A poster can say just about anything about any subject and still make it relevant. That's called "creative writing." (no, I'm not Mr. Lemon, King (Queen?) of Creative Writing.)

But I must say, 98% of what I read at Outsports is as insightful, thoughtful and thought-provoking as get all. Thank you Cyd, Jim, Tarkus et al. for bringing it into my living room!

Thanks for being so open-minded, Tarkus. I'm sure once we all get to know each other things'll be back to normal. Thanks again for all you do.

A world of thanks as well to Tarkus, m1, Jim, and Cyd....I know everyone who contributes to this great site has the same goal in mind (i.e., to help make outsports the best site anywhere) and I'm sure we will all be able to get along and contribute to the enjoyment that we receive from outsports....special thanks to Tarkus and Jim for being so open minded and encouraging during this brief initial "controversy".

The only thing that bothered me about the tone of the messages from Tarkus is that I'd never seen or heard of him before. Similar messages from Jim or Cyd would not cause me any distress, but Tarkus is an unknown quantity. So tell us all about yourself, Tarkus!

I'm too depressed about starting a duplicate Survivors thread to write anything

And by the way? This thread belongs in the About the Board topic!

[ October 10, 2001: Message edited by: Tarkus ]

Feels like grade school again. Hall monitor.

I'm also going to echo support for Tarkus, if for no other reason than he is giving his time and energy to make this a quality experience for all of us. Change isn't always the easiest thing, but if you men remember, tempers did get heated on some of the threads on the old board and valuable posts were lost because they got bumped to the second page because of multiple postings on the front page.
Also, if we consider this a discussion, which it is, we all want to hear what each of us is saying about the topic, and if we have multiple threads, it's happened that one post has been a great insight that doesn't appear on basically the same thread three lines down
So Tarkus might have been zealous. I've always preferred that over sloth, or sitting idly by while one believes in action. I admire his dedication and his no fear attitude!

Thanks for this thread, members and moderators. I feel it's just what the forum needs to find a happy medium.
Thanks to you moderators for the hard job you've undertaken and for being so understanding after so many members complained about your tactics or style.

This is true, but a little context is needed as well - The old board had very little moderation, usually reserved for blatant personal attacks. To go from "benign neglect" to "Bin Laden Lite" was a little eye popping ...."

All of us users understand that the board is a worj in progress. In that spirit, a couple of quetions and thoughts:

• IMHO the most powerful feature of UBB is the search function. Once postings on this board grow exponentially from the quantity we have now, search will be ever more important.
  
  The previous board didn't have search, so I suggest that a \"weaning\" period, rather than harshly-imposed \"day-one-mandated\" compliance, might achieve the goal better. When this board has a LOT more messages than it does now, search will me more important than ever, so we need to encourage everyone to get comfortable using it.....
  
• IMHO it seems like a good way to implement the \"one Kapler thread\" goal would be to have a \"Hot Jock Talk - Specific Players\" forum (bad name I know, but you get the idea). THAT forum could have one and only one thread for Kapler, Caminiti, McCaffrey, Brees, Rix and so on). \"Hot Jock Talk - General\" could then have more timely entries about more generalized jocktalk topics.
• Has consideration been given to a REFERENCE forum - this would be for information that we might want to keep permanently - subjects like say the NCAA basketball seedings, standings for the various pick'em polls, travel information, local tips on how to get tickets to sports events, \"where is the best spot to look for people reselling tickets outside of Pac Bell Park\", \"best food at Camden Yards\" and the like. Also in conjunction with this, would a LINKS forum be appropriate?
• Have archiving plans been thought out yet? The reason for asking is, if scheduled, systematic purges of the active threads are going to be made, it would affect the concept of \"ongoing\" threads that seems to be the current thought....

I saw this exchange at the board that I go to a lot: This is the moderators response: So, if you think it's bad here, imagine what it would be like if Jim and Cyd didn't keep me and M1 on a short leash!

[ October 11, 2001: Message edited by: Tarkus ]

(note how an old thread was recycled rather than create a new one)

So I'm reading the "Some Sad News" thread on the Pro Football board and I was thinking of a reply I wanted to make. I notice the "reply with quote" icon was gone, though. I got concerned that there was a systems problem or something, and then I realized as I scrolled down: the thread was locked. And I'd like to know why. It's about former pro football players who are ill and has been labeled "way off topic." Seems like it's ON topic to me. Is it just because one guy made a mistake on a player's name, and when said mistake was pointed out he wrote "D'oh!" and added an image of Homer Simpson?

<sarcasm> Perhaps someone was not aware that Homer Simpson is a TV character who is famous for saying the word "D'oh!" when he makes a mistake. The word was recently added, if I recall correctly, to the Oxford English Dictionary. </sarcasm>

This hardly seems like a reason to lock the thread. I've seen some threads go off base even more and they remain open.

If there's going to be moderation, it should at least be consistent.

Joe in PHL - a bit of explanation (and a LOT of Miss Cleo=like guessisg too) of what happened when you were gone for a few days ......

The post with the Homer drawing also included a reference to Randy Johnson. Because I had just seen a nice pic of a very-well-groomed RJ (in a tux no less) I posted the pic, forgetting the original rather somber nature of the thread (and also the fact it was in the pro football forum to boot).

Like you I later noticed the lock, and after reading the moderator's explanation, I asked the moderator to completely remove my post, telling him i'd put it up in another forum. He did so very quickly, and everything was cool.

That's the part I know for sure. Now for the mind-reading: My guess is that the moderator did NOT want to remove the Homer post without the posting member's OK (I have seen that type of unilateral action cause MAJOR contretemps on other boards). If he was erring on the side of caution and courtesy to a poster, I think he did the right thing.

IMVHO, the best possible thing might be to start a new thread, in order to express your thought - I for one am interested in hearing it.

In the first few weeks of the board, there seemed to have been some concern that "topic-repitition" would cause a lot of problems. I think we've done a very good job of self-policing outselves (your bump of this existing post being a stellar example) but I think this is one time a new thread is warranted.

Wurm's explanation is what happened from what I know. Our moderators use a very light hand, in part because most everyone has been good about staying on topic. Please give them some slack, since even this board is not perfect. Everyone is really trying. Thanks.

Thanks for the explanation. It makes a lot more sense now.

[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: m1 ]

Joe, you'll note that the thread had gone off-topic well before Homer Simpson showed up. Had we been more attentive, we would have intervened earlier.

Wurm is correct; except at the author's request, the moderators will never delete a post that is less than blatantly offensive, and then only after discussion with Jim or Cyd.

Sorry guys, but I still don't think there is a valid reason for this one to have been locked. I clearly made a mistake and we could have let it go after it was pointed out. There were no hard feelings, or bad intentions. Why is the one about the American Taliban allowed to get THAT off course?

The thread had gone off topic "well before Homer Simpson showed up"???? How far back can that be, when that was only the 5th post?

Also, can you explain how we should "Share some thoughts" for these worthy men, when the thread is locked????

[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: CowboysHskrFan ]

[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: CowboysHskrFan ]

...chink...chink...(the sound of my two cents being thrown in)

the only thing I have noticed is the elimination of old threads or threads that have gotten no traffic; I have to say I haven't found tarkus's comments (or Jim's/Cyd's for that matter) off-putting from my experience.

The key thing is to always edit yourself, whether you use the edit feature, or whether you simply ask yourself how you would respond to any post that you make if you made it yourself. (NOt that I do this exceedingly well myself, but I do my best most of the time.)

So Rock ON tarkus! I personally thank you (and Jim and Cyd) for all you do. I'm just glad there is even a board to post to. Everyone else: thanks for contributing some great thoughts herein; even if we sometimes get off-track, it's always good to hear what others are thinking about.

"Girrrls, you must try to do as I say and not as I do!" - Miss Brodie

[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: redsoxbreath ]

[quote]Originally posted by smrobbins65:
...chink...chink...(the sound of my two cents being thrown in)

the only thing I have noticed is the elimination of old threads or threads that have gotten no traffic;

---

Those aren't really eliminated. You can set it up so that you only see topics from a certain number of days, or to show every topic. I have my system set up to show only topics that are 10 days old.

oh, yeah. right! right! that's exactly it. I have mine set to show the last ten days. how embarrassing.
thanks, Joe!

In addition to the huge photo files, I'd like to mention cutting and pasting whole articles. It's close to copyright violation--Jim?--and takes up lots of space in the thread. Links are always preferable.

And please, remember, we have an edit feature; if you forget something, don't do another thread, hit edit and do it. It just makes for a cleaner board.