EVER?? And it would "ruin" anyone who came out?

Ever is a long...long time. And most of the time, change in any area--especially sports--is forecast as never happening and being ruinous if it did.

It's going to happen, and sooner than later.

And yes--they do have to deal with us, every day. Whether they know it or not. And why shouldn't they? Is there something wrong with us and our money that makes it impossible for straight guys to "have to" deal with us??

I respectfully disagree with you Brent. I don't think it will ever happen. Period. Pro sports organizations have too much to lose if a star player were to admit his homosexuality. Middle America, in particular, would shun him. I really hope I'm proven wrong. But I think for the moment, we shouldn't hold our breaths. As for the "working with straight men" I'm saying that since they pretty much run the country, we play by their rules. I know I'll catch flak but that's just my opinion.

Don't you think similar arguments were used to argue that blacks would never be accepted in pro sports?

As an Asian-American, I'm not really certain I agree with that arguement. Gay and lesbian people don't walk around with our sexualities declared immediately (unless you're wearing a pride T-shirt but that's beside the point). Ethnic people can't hide our identity, no matter where we go. I'm certain other ethnic gays and lesbians would agree with me. But don't get me wrong. I think any type of discrimination or prejudice should be outlawed. But most of America doesn't see homophobia the same as racism and sexism. Besides, from my experience, Asians can be just as homophobic as white people.

hey, maybe I missed something in reading Bean's book, but I do seem to recall his 1) suggestion that the time IS right for a gay ballplayer to come out, and 2) encouragement for any such guy to do so.

Shea 'Brand aside, (as a DBacks fan), I think the sentiments of most guys would be that as long as the guy can play, they don't care.

for any such ballplayer: If you're out there big guy, come out!

[ June 02, 2003, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: smrobbins65 ]

I have criticized Bean for being negative about a current player coming out in the past but in fairness to him, I think he has changed his mind considerably on that issue. I just heard him speak on a gay-issue talk show "PhillyLive" on a local PBS station tonight and he semms to have been converted by the positive reception he has gotten since becoming more public and promoting his book. And if he feels taking a different stand may help with his book promotion, that too is a positive development IMO. And I hope we'll see more of him in the City of Brotherly Love.

I saw the same program -- I was not impressed.

I've just finished the Bean book, and while it is somewhat lightweight, I found it an enjoyable and worthwhile read. He (and his co-writer) manage a good mix of "baseball from the inside" stuff with Bean's personal story and difficulties. I simply cannot imagine what it must have been like for him to attempt to play while dealing with the death of his boyfriend.

I also got the impression in the book that Bean was more open to the idea of a player coming out while playing, although realistic about the difficulties. I wonder if some of his earlier comments were more about a player like him (solid, but not superlative) coming out, rather than a superstar.

I also find it interesting that Esera Tuolo has stated repeatedly that it would be physically dangerous for a football player to come out, but has not received the same critcism as Bean. Certainly baseball does not have the same physical danger of football, but a well-placed pitch by a John Rocker-type could effectively end a player's career, if not kill him.

at the same time, such a thing would be looked at thoroughly as it doesn't often (ever??) happen, and surely a homophobic player would be scrutinized. Not likely. From a fan? More likely; a lot of straight guys faced agressive players off the field too.

In another thread, redsoxbreath posted:

Major league reality: Gays aren't welcome - Chicago Tribune 7/15/03
The Trib article is primarily a commentary on Billy Bean's recently-published autobiography, and a further discussion of the no-openly-gay-players-in-professional-team-sports issue. Reporter Sid Smith does a good job covering territory familiar to regular Outsportsters, with interviews of Bean, Cyd Ziegler, Bill Konigsberg, MLB's Richard Levin and "Take Me Out" playwright Richard Greenberg. Worth a read.


Charlie in the Trees replied:

I laughed at the last line of the article, a quote from Billy Bean: Well, yeah ... because you have the same effing name as trendsetting Oakland A's General Manager Billy Beane, that's why.


DallasUNC replied:

The other major reality: media stories still use the word "lover" as a way to convey that someone is in a relationship. That word is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

Actually, Bean used "lover" repeatedly in the book when referring to Sam.

[ July 15, 2003, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: redsoxbreath ]

In a duplicate thread, bluebird48234 posted:

I'm surprised that I'm the first to notice this.

Anyway, having been involved with some of the promotional events celebrating Jackie Robinson, I have always said this about baseball:

(from article):
Elsewhere, he argues, "When it comes to gay ballplayers, baseball has not lived up to its promise of equality and opportunity. The greatest game on Earth should be leading the way . . . as it did in the days of racial integration, not lagging behind every other industry."

- - -

I don't agree that MLB "lags behind" EVERY other industry; nevertheless, when you know the leadership MLB played in this country in just getting people to accept non-whites generally, and African-Americans in particular, it seems out of "character" for MLB to have atrophied on the social fronts as it has over the years. It has lost ALL of its social-change appeal for me, as MLB is definitely not taking any risks when, if it was announced in the NYTimes tomorrow, "MLB Commissioner Circulates Open Letter Requiring all Closeted Staff, Athletic or Otherwise, to Come Out", the country would have to deal with the (known) fact that MLB had taken great, and risky strides in its past and was destined to continue doing the same in its (and our) future.

I remain disappointed.

- - -

On a personal note: When you happen to know some pro athletes, as I do, and some in the way that I/we do, in addition to my having a former professional athlete for a father, it's "closer" to insanity - this "lockerroom regime" when you know that all athletes are created equal (except, of course, for Javy Lopez and Jim Thome... wink ).

Oh well...

Gays in baseball - Chicago Tribune commentary 7/19/03

It was a great article by Tribune staff reporter Sid Smith on gays not being welcome in major league baseball ("Major league reality: Gays aren't welcome," Tempo, July 15).

It's astounding to read that a spokesman for Major League Baseball says that he hasn't noticed if sexual orientation is included in their anti-discrimination policy.

Try reading it, dummy!

It's been 56 years since Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in baseball (although prejudice still exists), but homosexuals in baseball and most other professional sports are still not allowed to be open and honest about themselves in their workplace.

Baseball needs to include sexual orientation in its anti-discrimination policy now, and begin sensitivity training of all of its players in the major and minor leagues, something Robinson never benefited from.

America must cease being the home of bigotry.

So I just finished Billy Bean's book last night. And I have to say that after reading Bean's and Dave Pallone's (the gay umpire) books, I've come to an appreciation of how difficult it is for a gay person in professional sports to come out.

And I take back some of my harsh words in the past, and apologize if they were hurtful to anyone. Specifically, there's a passage at the end of Bean's book where he says:

"The informative Web site Outsports.com criticized me for speaking about the career-threatening dangers of coming out publicly at the major-league level, saying that I was encouraging players to stay closeted."

When I read that I thought, "Oh my God, he's talking about me" as I had some unflattering things to say about him in this thread.

And I've come to realize that you can't just sit on the sidelines and complain that other people aren't doing the tough work to your satisfaction, when you yourself are doing nothing.

So I have been inspired by these people, and my fellow Outsporters, and I am determined to do what I can. My first step is organizing Gay Day with the Blue Jays, based on the successful Phillies event organized by Outsports' scottie. I contacted the Blue Jays this past week and their response has been very positive. And if you're reading this Billy Bean, you and your partner are cordially invited.

--------

One other thing: in addtion to the glossary at the end of the book, it would be nice if the book included Billy Bean's career stats.

[ September 27, 2003, 07:40 AM: Message edited by: canmark ]

In another thread, ultrhumanite posted

I read Billy Bean's biography last year and really enjoyed it. Now GOING THE OTHER WAY is scheduled to be released into paperback this April.

Just discovered this October '04 article about Billy Bean from Edge Boston.

Gay baseball thread on the Baseball-Fever message board.

[ November 14, 2004, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: canmark ]

That's an interesting thread on that message board...someone on there is familiar, too, eh?