Under the heading ``Get a Life" we received an e-mail from a guy (obviously straight) who wonder why we ``waste all this bandwidth'' on Outsports. Here is his complete letter. I replied to him but was curious as to how others would have replied since it goes to the heart of a lot of issues. I am not printing his name or e-mail since they aren't important. Here is his letter:
Least you think I'm homophobic I have many riends both gay and
lesbian. Family members too.
My problem is that, to me at least, your site is hypocritical; you bemoan your lack of acceptance but work so diligently at being something
different, separate and special. Why does the world have to be aware of
your sexuality in order for you to feel ustified. I could even say
why do
you have to share things like your site amongst you own community in
order
to feel worthwhile?
The rest of us get no special treatment or
acknowledgement for loving people of the opposite sex, so why do you think you need that because your partner is of the same sex? Stop
emphasizing that you're a gay football player or a lesbian skater or whatever sub, sub,
sub group you put yourself into. Why isn't just being a football player or a skater or whatever enough?
Yes, there are, have been and always will be ravening homophobes
out there but you must realize no 'outing', no marches, no web sites, nothing
you can do will ever change those people. For the rest of us, we don't really give a damn one way or another who you or anyone else sleeps
with.
As to why I came to your site; I saw a headline on the MSN home
page
about the 'gay games' or some such and wondered what it was about.
Full Version: How would you all answer this?
Until the day comes when I could be a member of a "regular" softball league and bring my boyfriend to the awards banquet, there will be a need for sites like Outsports and events like the Gay Games. Until the day comes when the Dwight Slater's and Corey Johnson's of the world can pursue their love of football without harrassment from their coaches and teammates, we will need to "waste all this bandwidth". Until gay athletes' significant others can be seen openly congratulating their partner after a Super Bowl victory or a Wimbledon championship, there is a need. And until people like you aren't so put off by the fact that sites like Outsports and events like Gay Games exist, we are serving a purpose.
The world of sports is one of the last bastions where homophobia is not just accepted, but sometimes even encouraged. I feel most comfortable here, more so than in a general sports site or a general gay site.
The world of sports is one of the last bastions where homophobia is not just accepted, but sometimes even encouraged. I feel most comfortable here, more so than in a general sports site or a general gay site.
I would answer this guy that as a minority, personally I get sick and tired of your heterosexuality being crammed down my throat, whether I like it or not mind you, 24/7. One can't escape it, and frankly I grow tired of it. Why shouldn't we beat our chest a little bit? Until the day arrives in this country, or world for that matter, where we are seen and excepted as exact "equals" in every sense of the world,with one glaring exception, I will resort to go to websites exactlylike this one.
[quote]Originally posted by Jim at Outsports:
...I have many riends both gay and
lesbian.
....
The rest of us get no special treatment or
acknowledgement for loving people of the opposite sex,...
A) "some of my best friends are gay."
Oh, brother.
...I have many riends both gay and
lesbian.
....
The rest of us get no special treatment or
acknowledgement for loving people of the opposite sex,...
A) "some of my best friends are gay."
Oh, brother.
I would respond with this link.
The guy does bring up the topic of integration versus separation. Are minorities doing themselves a disservice by separating themselves and making their minority status an issue, or is there a vital need for separate and equal services?
Personally, I try to integrate. However, when I do go to straight bars on Sunset, I know I can't be in hunter mode. My pals are really open and accepting, yet they haven't met anyone I've dated (partly because of my dating dry spell...)
I have no answer to this, but like others on here, until I can bring Matt Damon to Centre Court of Wimbledon as I win my 8th title, there will have to be another venue for us.
[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: Trojan110 ]
Personally, I try to integrate. However, when I do go to straight bars on Sunset, I know I can't be in hunter mode. My pals are really open and accepting, yet they haven't met anyone I've dated (partly because of my dating dry spell...)
I have no answer to this, but like others on here, until I can bring Matt Damon to Centre Court of Wimbledon as I win my 8th title, there will have to be another venue for us.
[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: Trojan110 ]
This guy just doesn't get it. First of all, we aren't "bemoaning (our) lack of acceptance." I, for one, am not afraid to admit I'm gay to ANYONE. Acceptance is society's issue, not mine, because I'm totally at peace with who I am & the positive things I have to offer. He also implies that we need this forum in order to feel validated. Whatever. I'm not even gonna dignify that one.
I think he's missing the whole point of Outsports. It's just a place for a bunch of sports nuts, who happen to be gay, to come together & talk about sports in a way that we can't elsewhere. What's wrong with that? Nothing. Thank you. The way this guy talks, you'd think Outsports was organizing a march on Washington, demanding that gay sports fanatics be silenced no more.
Sometimes, I really I do wonder about straight people.
I think he's missing the whole point of Outsports. It's just a place for a bunch of sports nuts, who happen to be gay, to come together & talk about sports in a way that we can't elsewhere. What's wrong with that? Nothing. Thank you. The way this guy talks, you'd think Outsports was organizing a march on Washington, demanding that gay sports fanatics be silenced no more.
Sometimes, I really I do wonder about straight people.
i would hate to "attribute" my "attributes" to someone else without basis, but the guy is not necessarily straight just because he says he is.
Although it really doesn't matter because the points he raises are worth defending either way, imagine if the guy really is gay?
His behavior, and what provokes it, would be another reason why a site like this is needed.
Although it really doesn't matter because the points he raises are worth defending either way, imagine if the guy really is gay?
His behavior, and what provokes it, would be another reason why a site like this is needed.
I firmly believe that no one is competent to discuss matters of minority/majority relations until they have spent significant time in both worlds.
I spent a year living in Jerusalem. As a Jew, I was suddenly in the majority. I was the oppressor, but I was also the People. It was an eye opening and liberating experience. My brother has chosen to live there permanently.
The most pertinent experience was during what in America is refered to as the "Holiday Season." In Israel, where Hanukah is rightly regarded as a minor holiday, the season is not a big deal. I woke up Dec. 24 and realized I hadn't heard a Christmas carol in about a year. But the truely enlightening experience was walking the streets of Jerusalem during Hanukah and watching the menorah lights twinkle in the windows. I suddenly realized that there were no christmas trees, no strings of lights, no garlands, no wreaths, red and green, only the pure light of burning olive oil.
Coming back to America I better understood not only my own position in our society, but the position enjoyed by straight, white, Christian males. But they generally cannot understand anyone else's position, because unless they travel extensively in Asia and Africa, they've never experienced being the minority.
I spent a year living in Jerusalem. As a Jew, I was suddenly in the majority. I was the oppressor, but I was also the People. It was an eye opening and liberating experience. My brother has chosen to live there permanently.
The most pertinent experience was during what in America is refered to as the "Holiday Season." In Israel, where Hanukah is rightly regarded as a minor holiday, the season is not a big deal. I woke up Dec. 24 and realized I hadn't heard a Christmas carol in about a year. But the truely enlightening experience was walking the streets of Jerusalem during Hanukah and watching the menorah lights twinkle in the windows. I suddenly realized that there were no christmas trees, no strings of lights, no garlands, no wreaths, red and green, only the pure light of burning olive oil.
Coming back to America I better understood not only my own position in our society, but the position enjoyed by straight, white, Christian males. But they generally cannot understand anyone else's position, because unless they travel extensively in Asia and Africa, they've never experienced being the minority.
My belief is that this site is another means to spread awareness within our community that gays and sports are not mutually exclusive, that gay athletes have been and are successful, and to support one another in breaking down barriers of ignorance and/or homophobia.
That this person doesn't see the need for a site that identifies with gays and sports isn't surprising. In years past, he probably would have thought the same regarding blacks and sports, women and sports, etc.
There was an interesting segment on NPR this morning interviewing different generations of blacks and whites in Louisiana on their perceptions of how attitudes/perceptions of each other had changed since the civil rights movement. The attitudes and perceptions of blacks by the older whites had really changed - they realized how little they really knew about the lives and culture of blacks that were alongside them every day and yet they had developed pretty strong feelings that they knew how black people felt. A little knowledge goes a long way...
The writer's perception that most of the world doesn't need to know about gays and sports
demonstrates his need to be more informed. It's not about holding ourselves separate but raising society's awareness of us and dispelling stereotypes. He ignores the fact that in today's world a college football player at Stanford can't be honest and come out without feeling isolated from teammates and coaches (see today's article by Cyd). I've rambled too much...
That this person doesn't see the need for a site that identifies with gays and sports isn't surprising. In years past, he probably would have thought the same regarding blacks and sports, women and sports, etc.
There was an interesting segment on NPR this morning interviewing different generations of blacks and whites in Louisiana on their perceptions of how attitudes/perceptions of each other had changed since the civil rights movement. The attitudes and perceptions of blacks by the older whites had really changed - they realized how little they really knew about the lives and culture of blacks that were alongside them every day and yet they had developed pretty strong feelings that they knew how black people felt. A little knowledge goes a long way...
The writer's perception that most of the world doesn't need to know about gays and sports
demonstrates his need to be more informed. It's not about holding ourselves separate but raising society's awareness of us and dispelling stereotypes. He ignores the fact that in today's world a college football player at Stanford can't be honest and come out without feeling isolated from teammates and coaches (see today's article by Cyd). I've rambled too much...
My instincts say that his letter doesn't contain the whole truth about his life or his experiences. Perhaps that's obvious, I'm not sure.
My response to Mr. Get A Life:
Hi. I have a life, thank you. Let me explain.
I grew up sports-intensive (big family, competitive siblings, father as coach-you know, the all american drill). I love competition (otherwise I wouldn't have played tennis for five hours (2 matches) in last weekend's tournament). Before high school, I played a lot of sports, mostly baseball, and was thought to have loads of potential.
When I hit puberty and those difficult teen years, I realized something was wrong: me! I was different, didn't know why, didn't know how, and either no one else noticed or they just weren't willing to explain. So I dropped out of all high school sports; it was too confusing and too stressful. Now I'm an adult. I'm gay. I play sports, mostly tennis and very competitively. They go together now. I'm very f**king happy about that. And I'd like to encourage other gay people at whatever age not to drop out, not to withdraw, but to participate in whatever sporting activity they'd like and to have a blast. When gay kids don't have to drop out, or never begin, or commit suicide then I guess we won't need Outsports anymore - and then we can all just be tennis players or football players or baseball players or whatever...no seperation necessary.
So, I hope that helps illuminate for you why Outsports is here (at least from my perspective), and why we care about each other though most of us have never met...and I hope that perhaps you'll share this site with your gay friends and family members...
[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: Bryan ]
My response to Mr. Get A Life:
Hi. I have a life, thank you. Let me explain.
I grew up sports-intensive (big family, competitive siblings, father as coach-you know, the all american drill). I love competition (otherwise I wouldn't have played tennis for five hours (2 matches) in last weekend's tournament). Before high school, I played a lot of sports, mostly baseball, and was thought to have loads of potential.
When I hit puberty and those difficult teen years, I realized something was wrong: me! I was different, didn't know why, didn't know how, and either no one else noticed or they just weren't willing to explain. So I dropped out of all high school sports; it was too confusing and too stressful. Now I'm an adult. I'm gay. I play sports, mostly tennis and very competitively. They go together now. I'm very f**king happy about that. And I'd like to encourage other gay people at whatever age not to drop out, not to withdraw, but to participate in whatever sporting activity they'd like and to have a blast. When gay kids don't have to drop out, or never begin, or commit suicide then I guess we won't need Outsports anymore - and then we can all just be tennis players or football players or baseball players or whatever...no seperation necessary.
So, I hope that helps illuminate for you why Outsports is here (at least from my perspective), and why we care about each other though most of us have never met...and I hope that perhaps you'll share this site with your gay friends and family members...
[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: Bryan ]
I realize that we all have different lives and different experiences, but I have difficulty believing that most of us here flock to the haven of Outsports because of that cold, cruel, homophobic world out there. Perhaps some on this board would beg to differ, but that sounds a bit overdramatic to me.
Why do I love Outsports so much? Because I never liked feeling like such an oddball, a real square peg. I can't even count how many times I've heard friends/acquaintances tell me, "I never thought you were gay because, gee, you're so into sports." I'd be annoyed by the stereotype except that from what I've seen of gay men, true sports lovers are a bit of an anomaly. Sure, fitness is next to godliness in gay culture, but football? Totally different things, and if you asked a hundred gym bunnies who won the last Super Bowl and why, something tells me wouldn't exactly hear a cornucopia of NFL expertise. I've mentioned this before, but even amongst the guys in Boston's gay tennis group, it was tough to find a real sports fan.
I think Outsports is a case of birds of a rare feather flocking together. Gays who can talk jock are a very small minority within a minority. As for a response to the guy who wrote that letter, yeeesh, can you say "issues"? It's obvious that he's seriously uptight about something, or more likely a lot of things. If he does indeed have "lots of gay and lesbian friends" as he claims, wanna bet they all say behind his back, "Yeah, OK guy, but God is he uptight!"
Why do I love Outsports so much? Because I never liked feeling like such an oddball, a real square peg. I can't even count how many times I've heard friends/acquaintances tell me, "I never thought you were gay because, gee, you're so into sports." I'd be annoyed by the stereotype except that from what I've seen of gay men, true sports lovers are a bit of an anomaly. Sure, fitness is next to godliness in gay culture, but football? Totally different things, and if you asked a hundred gym bunnies who won the last Super Bowl and why, something tells me wouldn't exactly hear a cornucopia of NFL expertise. I've mentioned this before, but even amongst the guys in Boston's gay tennis group, it was tough to find a real sports fan.
I think Outsports is a case of birds of a rare feather flocking together. Gays who can talk jock are a very small minority within a minority. As for a response to the guy who wrote that letter, yeeesh, can you say "issues"? It's obvious that he's seriously uptight about something, or more likely a lot of things. If he does indeed have "lots of gay and lesbian friends" as he claims, wanna bet they all say behind his back, "Yeah, OK guy, but God is he uptight!"
We don't exclude anyone from our activities [except for NAGAAA and gay softball with their stupid quota limit of 2 "non-gay" guys per team]. I'd invite him to come out and play!! [in the sure and certain knowledge that his homophobic booty would never ever show up]
I'd tell him read some of the sports posts & contribute - a lot of those are really sport intensive and he may enjoy them. WE DON"T DISCRIMINATE!
Tell him I said the following:
1. Geez, guy, I guess you don't have cable. Everything everyone would ever want to see is already on NBC and CBS, and lord knows people shouldn't have different tastes and like different things. If "Friends" and "60 Minutes" aren't good enough for ya, then you must be some sort of freak of nature.
2. What's wrong with wanting to talk baseball with someone who is comfortable talking about both (1) whether Scott Rolen is the most valuable 3rd baseman in the game, (2) whether the Phillies mishandled the Rolen situation, and (3) whether he is drop-dead handsome and totally hot. Are you, Mr. Get-A-Life, comfortable talking about all of the things I want to talk about? If, in the course of discussing the Mariners chances of winning the AL West, I compare the relative merits of the bodacious booties of Bret Boone and Ichiro, are you going to give me a dirty look, maybe cover your ears and scream? I'll tell you this, having those discussions is a whole lot more fun and interesting with guys (or women) who know the game and know the players. Are you willing to participate in that discussion?
3. Exactly what sort of "special" treatment are you thinking people here want in sports? I don't remember reading anything here where people are asking for some sort of gay Title IX or gay quotas on our favorite sports team (and if there were gay quotas, where would you find the necessary str8 guys to balance out figure skating?). So what's the problem?
4. We like sports, OK? We're gay (in most cases), OK? What's wrong with combining two great tastes that taste great together?
1. Geez, guy, I guess you don't have cable. Everything everyone would ever want to see is already on NBC and CBS, and lord knows people shouldn't have different tastes and like different things. If "Friends" and "60 Minutes" aren't good enough for ya, then you must be some sort of freak of nature.
2. What's wrong with wanting to talk baseball with someone who is comfortable talking about both (1) whether Scott Rolen is the most valuable 3rd baseman in the game, (2) whether the Phillies mishandled the Rolen situation, and (3) whether he is drop-dead handsome and totally hot. Are you, Mr. Get-A-Life, comfortable talking about all of the things I want to talk about? If, in the course of discussing the Mariners chances of winning the AL West, I compare the relative merits of the bodacious booties of Bret Boone and Ichiro, are you going to give me a dirty look, maybe cover your ears and scream? I'll tell you this, having those discussions is a whole lot more fun and interesting with guys (or women) who know the game and know the players. Are you willing to participate in that discussion?
3. Exactly what sort of "special" treatment are you thinking people here want in sports? I don't remember reading anything here where people are asking for some sort of gay Title IX or gay quotas on our favorite sports team (and if there were gay quotas, where would you find the necessary str8 guys to balance out figure skating?). So what's the problem?
4. We like sports, OK? We're gay (in most cases), OK? What's wrong with combining two great tastes that taste great together?
[quote]Originally posted by Charlie in the Trees:
4. We like sports, OK? We're gay (in most cases), OK? What's wrong with combining two great tastes that taste great together?
You got sports in my queer website!
You got queers in my sports website!
4. We like sports, OK? We're gay (in most cases), OK? What's wrong with combining two great tastes that taste great together?
You got sports in my queer website!
You got queers in my sports website!
Well, I think that a lot of people here have pretty much covered all the bases on how to have answered this guy.
I'm sure that Cyd and Jim get a lot of mail about their site, and they don't necessarily share all of it with us, especially the Hate mail they get. I'm glad this one was brought to our attention to get us to think.
I completely agree that it's nice to be able to not only discuss the pro's and con's of certain sports things, but to also discuss who's hot and who's not. On top of that, let's face it, in our society, it's very different being gay than being straight, and it's nice to have a place to talk about various things with people in similar situations (as in the relationship topic).
Trevor
I'm sure that Cyd and Jim get a lot of mail about their site, and they don't necessarily share all of it with us, especially the Hate mail they get. I'm glad this one was brought to our attention to get us to think.
I completely agree that it's nice to be able to not only discuss the pro's and con's of certain sports things, but to also discuss who's hot and who's not. On top of that, let's face it, in our society, it's very different being gay than being straight, and it's nice to have a place to talk about various things with people in similar situations (as in the relationship topic).
Trevor
Why respond at all?
I hope it's the worst email Outsports ever receives.
I hope it's the worst email Outsports ever receives.
Hey Jim,
I'd show him David from Australia's email and explain to him how just knowing that there are others like us out here in this big ol' world is a huge help!
I'd show him David from Australia's email and explain to him how just knowing that there are others like us out here in this big ol' world is a huge help!
I assure you, it is not the worst e-mail we've received.
His argument is an ignorant one. We all partake in "regular" sports, watching the NCAA tournament, playing in straight sports leagues, going to "regular" sports bars.
Gay leagues and sites like this compliment that. We're not separating from anyone - simply adding to the experiences that are already out there.
Having read three of this guy's e-mails, he clearly is not the brightest bulb in the lamp - whatever his opinion is.
His argument is an ignorant one. We all partake in "regular" sports, watching the NCAA tournament, playing in straight sports leagues, going to "regular" sports bars.
Gay leagues and sites like this compliment that. We're not separating from anyone - simply adding to the experiences that are already out there.
Having read three of this guy's e-mails, he clearly is not the brightest bulb in the lamp - whatever his opinion is.
I think the point needs to be made that there are all sorts of web sites and discussion boards that exist with the idea that there is a common bond that (however weakly) ties the users together. e.g. a Yankees fan site or a Notre Dame athletics web site or discussion board.
Does the writer of the email think these web sites or discussion groups should not exist because they pertain to a specific group of fans or people? No, he's pissed cause we are a bunch of people who have BEING GAY in common and we are talking about subjects we find interesting. He's troubled because he finds the same things interesting. It's the GAY Thing that pisses him off, quite clearly.
Does the writer of the email think these web sites or discussion groups should not exist because they pertain to a specific group of fans or people? No, he's pissed cause we are a bunch of people who have BEING GAY in common and we are talking about subjects we find interesting. He's troubled because he finds the same things interesting. It's the GAY Thing that pisses him off, quite clearly.
[quote]Originally posted by Jupiter:
Why respond at all?
I agree. He's either a bigot or an idiot or both, and in my opinion isn't worth wasting time on.
Why respond at all?
I agree. He's either a bigot or an idiot or both, and in my opinion isn't worth wasting time on.
Well said utahman4u! At this site we can talk intelligently about sports, but also mention how hot we find the athlete! This is a gr8 site and while I don't agree w/ everything posted, and I know not all my comments are agreed with, we don't have to be afraid of what we write! There really is no mean spirited posts! That is why I love Outsports! However, why wasn't speed skating even listed in the poll? It's totally my fav Winter game!
[quote]Originally posted by Cyd at Outsports:
I assure you, it is not the worst e-mail we've received.
I remember on the old board you got one that was written in German. Someone had taken offense....
I assure you, it is not the worst e-mail we've received.
I remember on the old board you got one that was written in German. Someone had taken offense....
I recall dear old Quentin Crisp's story in The Naked Civil Servant about the moment when he realized the Great Truth that the guys who were tormenting him for being gay were themselves homosexuals. The classic 1996 article reporting the experiment where homophobic men got erections watching gay porn and the non-homophobic straight men did not, pretty well nailed Crisp's anecdotal observation as a psychological truth.
If you got 3 letters from our friend, guess what!?
[ March 02, 2002: Message edited by: LACharlie ]
If you got 3 letters from our friend, guess what!?
[ March 02, 2002: Message edited by: LACharlie ]
I have no idea what he is trying to say? how is having your own website considered special treatment? Whatever he's saying its confusing.
No special treatment or acknowledgement? You've got to be kidding! Heterosexuals have thousand of special laws, special rules, special treatments, special traditions specifically set up to benefit them and to exclude everyone else.
Geez, this guy needs to buy a little perspective.
His comments were full of horse manure and stemmed from arrant ignorance. It's quite clear to me that he hasn't the foggiest notion of what this site is all about.
I'd tell him that this site is NOT wasting any bandwidth--not his affair if we did, tho. This site is like any other site where people-- who are gay--love to discuss sports. If the straight sports fans can have websites and discuss their favorite athletes, why can't we do just the same? If we follow his drift, then those numerous sites for sports fans are all wasting precious bandwidth.
So what's his beef with this site? Me thinks it's homophobia. Covert homophobia. He can deny this to high heavens, but I think he's pissed that queers here talk about how hot, hairy, beefy and endowed athletes are. Anything wrong with that? Absolutely not. I also post on straight boards, and occasionally, they make sexual innuendos.
One board even had a thread anent "The hottest Met wives". Duh!
Downright idiocy, hypocritical cajolery, covert homophobia...Who is wasting precious bandwidth?
His comments were full of horse manure and stemmed from arrant ignorance. It's quite clear to me that he hasn't the foggiest notion of what this site is all about.
I'd tell him that this site is NOT wasting any bandwidth--not his affair if we did, tho. This site is like any other site where people-- who are gay--love to discuss sports. If the straight sports fans can have websites and discuss their favorite athletes, why can't we do just the same? If we follow his drift, then those numerous sites for sports fans are all wasting precious bandwidth.
So what's his beef with this site? Me thinks it's homophobia. Covert homophobia. He can deny this to high heavens, but I think he's pissed that queers here talk about how hot, hairy, beefy and endowed athletes are. Anything wrong with that? Absolutely not. I also post on straight boards, and occasionally, they make sexual innuendos.
One board even had a thread anent "The hottest Met wives". Duh!
Downright idiocy, hypocritical cajolery, covert homophobia...Who is wasting precious bandwidth?
Good, interesting comments, everyone. Right on, hogeye.
Q: My problem is that, to me at least, your site is hypocritical; you bemoan your lack of acceptance but work so diligently at being something
different, separate and special.
A:I could care less who wants to accept me, I have enough acceptance and support as it is, damn right I want to be different and not like everyone else, thats what makes me so great.
Q: Why does the world have to be aware of
your sexuality in order for you to feel ustified.
A: That should be (justified), the world doesnt need to be aware of it, but there shouldnt be any need to hide it either.
Q: I could even say
why do
you have to share things like your site amongst you own community in
order
to feel worthwhile?
A: There are probably 100 straight websites for every one gay website, why do you need all those to feel worthwhile, why must we have to live with the disgusting displays of men kissing women in public every day, holding hands and flaunting their sexuality. Why do they need our approval?
Q: Stop
emphasizing that you're a gay football player or a lesbian skater or whatever sub, sub,
sub group you put yourself into. Why isn't just being a football player or a skater or whatever enough?
A: It should be enough, but unfortunately it is not to a lot of straight people who think gays who can do a job ten times better than straights shouldnt even be given the opportunity.
[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: gp43 ]
different, separate and special.
A:I could care less who wants to accept me, I have enough acceptance and support as it is, damn right I want to be different and not like everyone else, thats what makes me so great.
Q: Why does the world have to be aware of
your sexuality in order for you to feel ustified.
A: That should be (justified), the world doesnt need to be aware of it, but there shouldnt be any need to hide it either.
Q: I could even say
why do
you have to share things like your site amongst you own community in
order
to feel worthwhile?
A: There are probably 100 straight websites for every one gay website, why do you need all those to feel worthwhile, why must we have to live with the disgusting displays of men kissing women in public every day, holding hands and flaunting their sexuality. Why do they need our approval?
Q: Stop
emphasizing that you're a gay football player or a lesbian skater or whatever sub, sub,
sub group you put yourself into. Why isn't just being a football player or a skater or whatever enough?
A: It should be enough, but unfortunately it is not to a lot of straight people who think gays who can do a job ten times better than straights shouldnt even be given the opportunity.
[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: gp43 ]
Guys:
There are some really good comments on this post. I would agree with BoSoxRudy that in our Gay culture, you have so many gym bunnies that look like Tarzan and talk like Jane that do not have a CLUE as to sports.
I really love this site and the intelligent conversations on here.
Again, Cyd and Jim, we appreciate your insight to create such a haven for us Gay sports fans.
There are some really good comments on this post. I would agree with BoSoxRudy that in our Gay culture, you have so many gym bunnies that look like Tarzan and talk like Jane that do not have a CLUE as to sports.
I really love this site and the intelligent conversations on here.
Again, Cyd and Jim, we appreciate your insight to create such a haven for us Gay sports fans.
I would just love to go to a hockey or baseball game, etc. without hearing some fat guy that probably has the I.Q. of the seats of the MCI Center, call the opposite team "faggot" or whine when his team is losing that his team is playing like a bunch of "faggots". You know that if this guy was uttering such derogatory names about other groups, he would be escorted out of the arena. I believe it is called a double-standard, my friends!
[quote]Originally posted by Cattledog:
I would just love to go to a hockey or baseball game, etc. without hearing some....
Or snowboarding. Actually, I didn't hear anyone say that the last time. Perhaps there is progress after all.
I would just love to go to a hockey or baseball game, etc. without hearing some....
Or snowboarding. Actually, I didn't hear anyone say that the last time. Perhaps there is progress after all.
I really prefer to go to hockey and baseball games without snowboarding too...
One of those traditionalists, huh?
This site is open to anyone, not just gays. It's just a place to discuss sports, mostly. In light of how hostile many people who play sports and many sports fans are to gay people, it's nice to be able to discuss sports in a free and open environment. I mean, we probably don't need a site like OutInteriorDecorating.com.
And straights have some many privileges that gays don't that that statement doesn't warrant a response.
And straights have some many privileges that gays don't that that statement doesn't warrant a response.
This letter we received last night is a good response:
Dear Outsports:
I'm 34 years old now, and I was on the High School Swim team and involoved in FFA (Future Farmers of America) and I was always afraid of coming out to other, including to family and close friends!
And yes, I always surrounded by good looking men, both on the swim team and in the FFA. But, I didn't know of what to do! And yes, like all young gay men, I was confused on what to say and how to say it, without anybody knowing of what I REALLY wanted.
Of what I really wanted to say is, I wish I had a web site like outsports.com to learn on how to cope with my sexuallity, and how could I handle it with friends, family and other people that I had to be around.
Now, I'm very open about me being gay, and I'm very proud of being gay! And if anybody doesn't like it,. TOUGH SH*T I wish you the best with the web site!
A reader from Texas
Dear Outsports:
I'm 34 years old now, and I was on the High School Swim team and involoved in FFA (Future Farmers of America) and I was always afraid of coming out to other, including to family and close friends!
And yes, I always surrounded by good looking men, both on the swim team and in the FFA. But, I didn't know of what to do! And yes, like all young gay men, I was confused on what to say and how to say it, without anybody knowing of what I REALLY wanted.
Of what I really wanted to say is, I wish I had a web site like outsports.com to learn on how to cope with my sexuallity, and how could I handle it with friends, family and other people that I had to be around.
Now, I'm very open about me being gay, and I'm very proud of being gay! And if anybody doesn't like it,. TOUGH SH*T I wish you the best with the web site!
A reader from Texas
[quote]Originally posted by Jim at Outsports:
... what I really wanted to say is, I wish I had a web site like outsports.com to learn on how to cope with my sexuallity....
If there had been a site like this or an Internet when I was in high school, I think life might have been a lot easier for me than it was. I look back and think "it wasn't necessary...."
Occasionally, someone on another BBS will get the idea that he can taunt me because I'm gay. Well, that person can just go....
... what I really wanted to say is, I wish I had a web site like outsports.com to learn on how to cope with my sexuallity....
If there had been a site like this or an Internet when I was in high school, I think life might have been a lot easier for me than it was. I look back and think "it wasn't necessary...."
Occasionally, someone on another BBS will get the idea that he can taunt me because I'm gay. Well, that person can just go....
Kudos to the reader from Texas for sending that most recent letter to Jim that he posted today....I, too, wish that there was a website like outsports around when I was a "confused" teen trying to come to grips with my sexuality and being fearful back then of people learning who I really was....over the years, like the writer eloquently said, I have come to accept the real me and see no benefit in trying to paint a false facade in order to gain the acceptance of others....to paraphrase the teen character Steven Carter in that great British movie "Get Real" when he comes out publicly when accepting an award at his high school, "I want people to like me for who I am not for who I have pretended to be".
I, for one, believe one of the greatest purposes outsports serves is to provide a place for communication, hope, and camaraderie for so many gay men worldwide, especially young men who are at times painfully coming to terms with their own sexuality and unfortunately enduring ridicule or worse....stories and letters like the ones Cyd and Jim have shared with us over the past couple of years from guys like David in Australia and countless high school and college athletes worldwide, while heartbreaking at times, also serve to reinforce the important role that outsports serves and the affect that all of us can have in helping others who are similar, even if it is something as simple as taking a couple of minutes and sending an encouraging e-mail.
For all those homophobes who are too closed minded or bigoted to accept us, I think a phrase used by Jerry Lewis over and over again (in answering his critics as to why he devotes so much of his time and energy to help crippled kids) applies here: "TO THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY. TO THOSE WHO DO NOT, NO EXPLANATION WILL SUFFICE."
I, for one, believe one of the greatest purposes outsports serves is to provide a place for communication, hope, and camaraderie for so many gay men worldwide, especially young men who are at times painfully coming to terms with their own sexuality and unfortunately enduring ridicule or worse....stories and letters like the ones Cyd and Jim have shared with us over the past couple of years from guys like David in Australia and countless high school and college athletes worldwide, while heartbreaking at times, also serve to reinforce the important role that outsports serves and the affect that all of us can have in helping others who are similar, even if it is something as simple as taking a couple of minutes and sending an encouraging e-mail.
For all those homophobes who are too closed minded or bigoted to accept us, I think a phrase used by Jerry Lewis over and over again (in answering his critics as to why he devotes so much of his time and energy to help crippled kids) applies here: "TO THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY. TO THOSE WHO DO NOT, NO EXPLANATION WILL SUFFICE."
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