Same-gender loving? If you're a man, black-white-whatever, and you're attracted to and sleeping with guys, you're either homosexual or bisexual...same-gender loving is a lovely euphemism but clearly an escape hatch. White gay culture may be the majority but it's hardly the only game in town...for anyone, nor is it an oppressive culture; if anything it's a full out "come one, come all" party culture demonstrated by the inclusion of bisexuals, transgenders, etc...... I think that Mr. Peterson and others who skirt admitting their sexuality are simply still dealing with basic coming out issues.

[quote]Originally posted by Jim Allen:
Same gender loving? I sure hope that doesn't catch on. GLBTSGL?

---

Same-gender-loving is an established term used by people of color across the U.S. I have read it used in several different Black publications, and some authors like James Earl Hardy champion it. There are other terms, like Adodi, for example, with an African source; or "two-spirit," which derive for Native American cultures. NONE of them, however, mean heterosexual.

I hear Yelladawg, but Peterson, it appears, got cold feet about his openness. He isn't the first, he won't be the last. Speaking of out people of color, Rudy Galindo and Greg Louganis are out. Carl Lewis should take that leap--and soon, but I'd much rather hear Lennox break the wall down.

Who is Lennox?
- - - - -

You are absoutely right, bryan d., about dealing with coming out issues.

Nevertheless, when you're in the public eye, the rules change, as they say. You cannot go through your process at "normal" pace, unless you are candid and tell your public that this what you're doing.

One of the aspect of Peterson's negation that makes me so angry is that he is trying, at least in part, to make this about race. I cannot stand for this, and to be silent in the face of that bullshit is not my character. He knows what he is doing, and if needed professional help, it was on him to seek out a qualified mental health professional.

Remember when Guccione released the pictures of then-Miss America Vanessa Williams? She had every minute of 48 HOURS to do a national press conference that made sense (that is, of her reign, her personhood, and her womanhood).
She was in session with a therapist for most of the two days before appearing before the cameras. She did not claim insanity, ignorance, misunderstanding, etc., although it was clear as a bell that Guccione was literally raking her over the coals in a holier-than-thou stunt. Subsequently, BECUASE she proved professional, coherent, and clear NO MATTER THE SUBJECT, she emerged victorious and has done in a career what few women before her have done (albeit times were more modern).

If you don't act like a star, who's to claim that you deserve star treatment?

As Vice-President hopeful Laine Hanson says (in the film The Contender): (paraphrase)
"Principles aren't really principles unless you stand for them when it's not convenient."

[ September 04, 2002: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]

[quote] I'd much rather hear Lennox break the wall down.

---

Is that boxer British Lennox Lewis?

The use of a native american term to describe "gays" is interesting since gay men were considered by many tribes to be endowed with special spiritual insight, not uncommon in other cultures; hence the prominence in the creative arts perhaps?

These gay indians were often chiefs and spiritual leaders, sometimes leading the tribe into battle (ala the greek warrior tradition?)

Though these facts have been known for years they have not been common knowledge and probably still are not taught at any level in schools.

Young men questioning their sexuality generally have little notion of the full spectrum of gay life or sexual attraction that exist in the gay community.

Personally I think the constant changing of terminology only reflects changing attitudes toward the facts of history. The facts themselves are not changing, our perception of them is.

I wonder how aware Peterson and others his age are of this history.

I have been following this thread with great interest since the beginning and I just have to say how grateful I am for Bluebird's and Sportinlife's postings. Thanks guys for your thoughtful and clear-eyed perspective.

I'm finding the whole "Same Gender Loving" vs. "Gay" debate both amusing and apalling. It seems as if SGL men of color just want to separate themselves from the white "gay" fags. That is just as offensive as the Caucasian gay community pretending that the queer world revolves around it.

It's another example of how minorities can be just as hard on one another as everyone else is. Light-skinned African Americans vs. dark-skinned. Hispanics who speak English vs. those who don't. Butch vs. femme. They are all facets of the same struggle. Self-hatred, i guess. By not identifying himself as "gay" or "bisexual," Derrick and anyone like him misses out on the chance to help stem the very problem they face, namely what type of people the terms "gay/bi" refer to.

I feel the urge to state that i am both 50/50 Hispanic/Caucasian and 100% gay!gay!gay! Anyone is free to hold either against me if they must.

Thanks, jaydeenyc. It's truly a pleasure to read that my words are of service.

[quote]Originally posted by bluebird48234:
Thanks, jaydeenyc. It's truly a pleasure to read that my words are of service.

---

ditto.

I dont think the term same gender loving is a euphemism or a way to skirt anything.. it is a term used by blk gay men who believe words matter. the terms gay connotes white men and blk men and I am one, are not comfortable with that word and what it means. same gender loving men means that I am defining who I am and how I relate to other men..I am not looking to be validated in that use of the term by white gay men....It is the same reason there are growing number of blk pride parades and events and latino and asian events.. not only do men of color feel left out in the gay culture, but they are declaring their independence from a culture that has mad dinge queens and rice queens part of the vocabulary.
We are declaring our independence from a culture that makes men of color.. who are same gender loving.. second class citizens. In gay culture what white men think and dream are all that matters... same gender loving.. we just love MEN!

Thanks for that very eloquent response, ballplayer.

This "why can't they be more like us?" battle cry is a bit behind the curve in a global, multicultural existence. Inclusion does not mean cultural assimilation, absorption or amalgamation.

It's been said before, but many gay white men (who still "suffer" the "burdens" of White privilege) just. don't. get. it.

[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: YellaDawg ]

Oh, we get it alright. We just don't agree with you.

I don't either, and I am African-American. It feels separatist.

Why haven't there been any SGL conferences, SGL letters to Congress, SGL risks of human life - in the name of this category?

I am all for doin' your thang. But please don't try to pass exclusive tactics and separatism off as Black LGBT community development.

The White gay community has bankrolled thousands of our coming out stories, shared with us, suppported us, fought for us, and fought with us, and in a few cases, taught US how to fight.

No, I am not saying that "White" is "right". I will be on the front lines whenever I feel that racism is a part of a statement, here or elsewhere, whenever I can. But it feels separatist, because it seems that you're saying that "White" is "wrong". You do not seem willing to negotiate - and it reads as accusatory when you preface that you are "in the minority here" or "confronting dissent".

I would like to see a day when you and your friends would spend the time (lots of it), effort (lots of it), caring (lots of it), goodwill (lots of it), and money (not really that much, or as much as some people might try to posit) to run a site like this where all can attempt to sit at the same table.....

It's (at least here, in my findings) what you show, not what you blow.

You know what, maybe I am just some cracker-white-ass-honkey from Montana, but to me, if you suck some dick you're gay. You can be a blond gay, a blue eyed gay, a black gay, a hispanic gay, a chicano gay, an asian gay, a black chicano blue eyed gay, a white honkey gay..... but you're still gay.

Now if you really don't like having sex with guys, and you just feel this deep felt love and admiration for another man, and want to spend the rest of your life with another man, but you are repulsed by and would never even think of having, sex with a man, then I suppose that you would then indeed just have a love of the same gender only, thus you can call yourself a Same Gender Loving individual. But the thing is, technically, I don't think anyone in this world would be willing to live out their days being repulsed by the thought of having sex with the person they are so madly in love with.

I mean really lets get over this little battle over semantics. We're gay!

You can call your self anything you want, heck I call myself "Stud" occationally just because it makes me feel good. What this whole discussion about SGL men seems to be doing is way beyond semantics, it is slapping the face of everyone except your own kind and saying that you don't approve and don't want to be associated with them simply because of a quality such as (dare I say it) Race. Well I call that Racist!

Yah, I know, I'm one of those White guys (who still "suffer" the "burdens" of White privilege)so you'll probably write me off as someone who just "DOESN'T GET IT", and that's your perogative, but to me I see a lot to learn from everyone I come in contact with. I don't sepparate myself from anyone who's willing to sit down and have a cup of coffee with me. The thing is, a lot of people just won't do that. They are too worried about what color someone's skin is.

Life's too short to sit around defining people by so many different lables. I'm an American first, and then I'm Gay. That's it. Why make it any more difficult than that? What is my citizenship, and who do I sleep with, that's about all that people seem to care about these days anyway.

Ok, boys, let me have it, I'm sure that I've offended someone, but you know what, that's ok because I was offened reading some of the comments on here too. Seems like a lot of people are painting with the industrial sized paint brush in this thread. (I just hope we're all painting the town purple)

[quote]Originally posted by MSUBobcat:
You can call your self anything you want, heck I call myself "Stud" occationally just because it makes me feel good.

---

Post a pic and we can all decide on that one.

Is it too corny to say "Call me anthing you want, just don't call me 'late for dinner'."

Gay is Good, Gay is Great, Gay is anything but straight.

Satisfied?

Well, I found MSUBobcat's profile in the Clubhouse. Needs to shave but otherwise nice!

Back on topic. I didn't mean to sound flippant when I wrote "Oh we get it alright". What I meant was that I know about the house/field slave dynamic, why the experiments at Tuskeege (sorry if that's spelled wrong) inform the, IMHO, not-at-all-supported-by-any-evidence theory that AIDS was another white plot to wipe out the black man, why interrracial dating is such a hot-button topic and on and on and on. I get all that but plain and simple, those are not my issues. I can sympathize and understand how they inform the debate in 2002 but I have no emotional connection to them. To pretend otherwise is patronizing, in my view.

There seems to be so much misunderstanding and mistrust on both of the sides of the racial divide that I truly despair of it ever getting better. It's been a theory of mine (and others) that there really is no gay community, that class/race/gender issues trump that. Just as it's absurd to think that being gay = enlightened about social issues, it's equally absurd to posit that white = hostile/indifferent to those same issues. Frankly, I've heard enough anti-Semitism coming from black guys that I'm under no illusion that blacks are automatically enlightened either.

Yeah, I think that bigotry "of color" or Black racism is a topic in dire need of discussion. Obviously, very few Black people want to 'fess up and get into a dialogue. Well, whenever we're all ready.....yet - we're all suffering until that happens.

On a similar note: How about the fact that, ON TOP OF European colonialisms and the bigoted hurts that they caused, we are having to live with vitriolic, demented BLACK heads of state (i.e., presidents) mobilizing their police forces against LGBTs as vermin and "worse than pigs and dogs" (2001 quote I think)? Black Africans (and us as the rest of the world) have enough to deal with in trying to help Africa heal and interact with the planet without African powers that be demonizing us and calling (on the world stage, mind you) for our holocaust.

Ask Mugabe if he cares about the difference between gay or SGL!!

[quote]Originally posted by Jim Allen:
Well, I found MSUBobcat's profile in the Clubhouse.

---

Works for me...as is.

[quote]Originally posted by ballplayer3:
the terms gay connotes white men...

---

Wha... How... Who? When did this happen? When did white men hijack the use of the word "gay?" No one told me that being gay meant I was a white man! Homosexual women have rejected the term "gay", and now homosexual black men are rejecting it? As a white male homosexual, am I allowed to call myself "same gender loving", or is that only for black men? Would it be okay or proper for a bunch of us white guys to get together and extend the use of the word "gay" to all homosexuals -- male and female, black, white, hispanic, asian, and everyone else who gets sexually aroused by people of the same sex? Here, it's your word too, use it! If all of these terms we use are confusing to us gay people, how are the heteros supposed to keep them, well, straight?

As someone who frequently feels like Porky Pig in trying to spit out what I'm trying to say, I'm so thankful for you folks on this board who have a way of expressing your experience, thoughts, and wisdom with simple eloquence, and with wit and humor. I always enjoy reading your posts Bluebird, and MSUBobcat, I especially related to what you wrote in your last post in this thread.

"Needs to shave but otherwise nice!" & "Works for me...as is."

Ahhhhh Shucks. Now I'm blushing.

I'm putting my heart into this when I get "the feeling", maxallen.....thanks.

- - - - -

This SGL thing strikes me as innocent on the one hand, but on the other - well, don't focus your personal (as opposed to racial) problems at me!! I'm the one trying to help!!

You know, even if we split off into this category within a category, the pressing issue would be how to mingle, network, work for change, and walk with safety and dignity here on the streets and abroad in the streets. I think this is what the National Black Lesbian and Gay Leadersip Forum (NBLGLF), to offer a good example of a group which has spent a lot of money over the years perfecting their organization craft, is learning as their group grows. Not that different groups (with different histories) don't have SOME different issues. That's a given. But radical separatism does not work in the LGBT case, I think, mainly because we as LGBTs of color (of various nationalities, with physical challenges, stress disorders, etc.) were not oppressed or enslaved within an ECONOMIC or MOBILITY system by white gays (or any gays, for that matter) that was impossible to escape, BY AMERICAN LAW. Translation: Although some non-slaves assisted in escape, they were willfully breaking the laws of their state in an effort to counter American slavery.

So, the question will always remain: How do I embrace myself as what I am, what I stand for, who I love, where I love, what nation I choose for work, etc. and work INTELLIGENTLY with others who are doing the same (strength in numbers)?

When interpersonal injustices arise, as they most certainly will even in this new millenium, they must be confronted. When competition in the workplace is a matter of life and death (as it is for many LGBTs, REGARDLESS OF COLOR), then that needs to be addressed, planned for, thought through, and dealt with.

If the shoe fits: For me, there's nothing like a good cry. If you have been wronged, if you suffer from misrepresentation, slander, libel, violation, ignorance, excommunication, and rejection at the bars (not a joke), computer crime, discrimination, identity theft, etc., then I want to hear it all. I want copies of your letters to Congress, and/or the powers that be. I want to see your marketing studies. I want to see your business plans. I want to see your research in the proper education for today's job market. I want to see EVIDENCE that you have sought out the people DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for your pain and confronted these persons with heart, soul, preparation and an even head.

But think about, please, who you target. Do not target those who are often in the same position. Seek to understand what we (in our LGBT community) suffer in silence and for YOU and YOUR LOVED ONES, every single day, promptly at 9:00a (sometimes at 7a, with weekends). With this understanding of some of the concrete, well-planned, and heartful campaigns that our community is juggling in today's hectic, educated, and often murderous world, you should be proud that maybe you can read a gay paper on the subway even if you can't kiss your same-sex love partner. You can talk face to face about rights and equity in the military (in dead-serious fashion) because a Black man won the only suit against the military in "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" because, from the very first application, he CHECKED THE BOX that he said he had been "interested in, and had had sexual relations with, men", no matter what the Armed Forces happened to be calling it that year.

SGLs, Truncheon Lovers, Goddesses for the Vagina.....say what you want as long as you ACT LIKE you're in the same boat as the rest of us.

[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]

[quote]Originally posted by bluebird48234:
This SGL thing strikes me as innocent on the one hand, but on the other - well, don't focus your personal (as opposed to racial) problems at me!! I'm the one trying to help!!

---

Oh, I know, and I truly appreciate your view on this. I got a tear in my eye when I read your most recent post. I think I love you Bluebird.

Actually I was expressing my dismay at Ballplayer3's post:

[quote]I dont think the term same gender loving is a euphemism or a way to skirt anything.. it is a term used by blk gay men who believe words matter. the terms gay connotes white men and blk men and I am one, are not comfortable with that word and what it means.

---

I don't understand this "what it means." I thought the term "gay" meant homosexual. Since "words matter", then tell me Ballplayer3, in words, what "gay" means to you.

[quote]...same gender loving men means that I am defining who I am and how I relate to other men..I am not looking to be validated in that use of the term by white gay men...

---

Same gender loving also defines me and how I relate to other men. I don't care if you call yourself that, and I don't want to validate or invalidate it, I just want to know why you reject calling yourself "gay".

[quote]...not only do men of color feel left out in the gay culture...

---

Left out, or separating yourself? I've never known anyone to be left out of gay culture who wanted to be part of it. Gay, straight, male, female, people of color or white -- The gay culture I've experienced is all about inclusion.

[quote]In gay culture what white men think and dream are all that matters... same gender loving.. we just love MEN!

---

Okay, you sort of answered my question above, about what you think "gay" means. I vehemently disagree. I've not seen or experienced this gay culture where "what white men think and dream are all that matters," and I live here in the same city that you do (Heck, I may have flirted with if I saw you in the Cabaret or DB or Missie B's).

Perhaps I'm veing too vitriolic about all this. It's just that before today, no one ever told me was being racist by being gay.

[quote]Originally posted by bluebird48234:
For me, there's nothing like a good cry. If you have been wronged, if you suffer from misrepresentation, slander, libel, violation, ignorance, excommunication, and rejection at the bars (not a joke), computer crime, discrimination, identity theft, etc., then I want to hear it all.

---

At the end of Sports Illustrated magazine there is a guy, whose name I can't recall, who often writes a very thoughtful column.

In a recent issue his subject was the racist treatment often recieved by popular wealthy black athletes when they travel alone in the south.

Though there is no talk of lynching, the humiliations are traumatic for many, many athletes.

One particular episode he relates was one in which a football player whose name we would all recognize, was so upset by an encounter with the police that afterwards he just sat down on a log and cried.

I can think of few things that have affected me more. I think the fact that the writer was white and so sympathetic was as powerful for me as the fact that the athlete was so wealthy and well-known, yet still not insulated from humiliating racist treatment.

That kind of race-neutral empathy is the essence of team spirit, and as good a reason as any to love sports.

[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: sportinlife ]

[quote]Originally posted by bluebird48234:
I would like to see a day when you and your friends would spend the time (lots of it), effort (lots of it), caring (lots of it), goodwill (lots of it), and money (not really that much, or as much as some people might try to posit) to run a site like this where all can attempt to sit at the same table.....

---

You're kidding, right? There's plenty of sites and message boards out there where gay and bi men can exchange ideas, and believe it or not, some of them were even started by and/or are primarily for people of color.

Maybe you should get out and around more...

[quote]Originally posted by Jim Allen:
What I meant was that I know about the house/field slave dynamic, why the experiments at Tuskeege (sorry if that's spelled wrong) inform the, IMHO, not-at-all-supported-by-any-evidence theory that AIDS was another white plot to wipe out the black man, why interrracial dating is such a hot-button topic and on and on and on. I get all that but plain and simple, those are not my issues. I can sympathize and understand how they inform the debate in 2002 but I have no emotional connection to them. To pretend otherwise is patronizing, in my view.

---

Thank you for admitting this.

Thank you MSUBobcat and Bluebird for your extraodinarily eloquent, insightful posts....in this day and age when our "community" has made so much progress but still has countless obstacles to overcome it defies me how men like YellaDawg apparently get some inane pleasure out of attacking fellow gay men due to reasons solely based on color....no matter how you slice it, that's the definition of racist to me.

I don't care about the race, nationality, or religion of a fellow gay man (and no I HAVE not nor WILL I refer to myself as "same gender loving") as long as he is acting out and speaking out for the common good of ALL GAY MEN (and women, for that matter)....imagine if only a miniscule portion of the time and effort that these individuals devoted to questioning and attacking the motives of their gay brethren was spent on supporting any of the countless worthwhile causes that we are attempting to remedy, most of which have been discussed at one time or another on this board -- the future is already bright but it can be virtually limitless if we simply stop trying to categorize people....in essence, isn't that what we have been fighting to eliminate for far too many years?....I'm not trying to sound like some sappy hallmark card but if we all work together there's no telling what we can accomplish -- goodness knows we have plenty of "outside forces" acting against us without having to battle those who define themselves as gay (SGL?) already.

Just wanted to express my appreciation in particular for the thought provoking comments of Bluebird and MSUBobcat that they obviously wrote with a great deal of heart and passion (as usual).....btw, Bobcat, your comment on your profile is on the money -- that is one awesome pic on top of the mountain...Sept and Oct in Montana must be absolutely awesome!

[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: gamecock ]

You're just being abusive, YellaDawg. This whole thing started with your trying to get play for D. Peterson's fraudulent and childish backpedaling.

If this is not your forum, then why do you post here? Is this your way of taking pot shots at people you THINK won't fight back? You couldn't surmise that I would get involved with my representatives, study homophobic nations and profiles like that of Uganda, work to free myself of an alcoholic, tyrannical brother and lay down for you, could you?

I never personally made fun of you. But please save yourself the headache of trying to take personal jabs at me. This is not what I am here for and I won't allow it. You happen to be the ONLY person who is taking exception to my messages.

And while you're at it, post some addresses for SGL sites authored by people you consider your personal friends or acquaintances.

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]

[quote]Originally posted by sportinlife:


At the end of Sports Illustrated magazine there is a guy, whose name I can't recall, who often writes a very thoughtful column.
[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: sportinlife ]

---

that would be rick reilly.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/life_of_reilly/news/ 2002/08/06/life_of_reilly/://http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/in...life_of_reilly/://http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/in...life_of_reilly/

Thanks, faydman. Points out what a straight guy is doing/risking for what is right for everyone, not just himself.

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]

[quote]Originally posted by bluebird48234:
If this is not your forum, then why do you post here?

---

Hmmm... where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, I remember now. This is the same, tired argument given by people who say they want "inclusion", but really only want it if that means "assimilation" or some quiet undisturbing cultural blending or absorption. So let me get this "straight" (no pun intended), this can only be "my" forum if I promise to act and think like the majority of the posters here?

Outsports is not a forum for me? Hmm... let's see, I played basketball and ran track for a Div 1 college (which wasn't eons ago). Not content on just being some couch potato spectator or gym bunny with a nightclub body (although I do religiously hit the gym), I still play and coach basketball, as well as a few games of league football as a wide receiver. Also grew up in a family of real live athletes who had the rare experience of playing as pros. Oh, and did I mention that I exclusively am attracted to men, too?

So, gee, I really, really hope I am qualified to be a part of "your" forum. Maybe if I'm here long enough, you can brainwash me to think and act just like you.

What I meant was: if you don't agree with what we're about here, then why not one of the following:

1/Report us to the appropriate organizations to rid society of our exclusion; or,

2/Teach us, referring to materials that you use; or,

3/Involve us in arguments that make sense. Hint: if we're that resilient to your messages, you're wasting your time. It makes better sense to argue the category SGL where you can get an ear, and then direct us there.

This is one where Blackness alone is not going to get you "minority" status.

And even if you were a minority, you would still be challenged to make good on your points in this community.

It's up to you, now.

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]

god, i hope people don't run yelladawg off. different opinions are what makes things interesting.

[quote]Originally posted by bluebird48234:
Involve us in arguments that make sense. Hint: if we're that resilient to your messages, you're wasting your time. It makes better sense to argue the category SGL where you can get an ear, and then direct us there.

---

I don't agree with this at all. I'm here at a message board to share my point of view (in a place where I thought it was free to do so... oops, guess I was wrong about THAT one!). I'm not here at a message board to attempt to change people's minds. I'd rather hear what people honestly think (which you tend to get at anonymous places like message boards instead of in face-to-face encounters with strangers) in a forum like this.

And the SGL term was merely an example I was giving, which you and a few others have chosen to take and run with and use as your "running joke". So I have no intention of arguing for the establishment of that term into the Official Gay Dictionary. I don't care if you disagree with the term. I don't use it myself, but I DO understand why some prefer to use it. I would never use the term "queer", and cringe whenever I hear it. But I do hear some radical gays (and yes, these are overwhelmingly White guys) use it as a term of endearment or empowerment.

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: YellaDawg ]

I don't use the word queer, but then again I'm not white. I'm more of a pinky sort of semi-spotted-color, except on my arms where I have a little bit of a tan, and my dick has aways seemed like it was made out of darker skin(did anyone else notice that about themselves? ). The rest of my body can and does turn purple and splotchy when I get cold.

If I move to Miami and tan year-round do I need to come up with another term for myself and become slightly less radically gay since I'm less white and according to you "radical gays are overwhelmingly White guys"????

I'm thinking I would have to change my name to, "the tan-gay-guy formerly known as a white-gay-guy"? Hey my skin color changed so Now I have to come up with another term.

I used to be the FAT kid in school. I was tormented for it. Then I figured out I was gay, and didn't say anything because I would then be the FAT GAY guy. Then I realized that there is this whole group of guys that are bigger burly guys who are gay, they call themselves BEARS. They could have formed a group for Big guys, but instead they chose to make being gay more important than being big. They also allow Black men and anyone who fits their general mind set, not necessarly body size, into the group. All you have to do is have an interest in who they are and what they do and they will accept you.

That would be what is called inclusion. Not seperatism. The group just needs to be open and of interest to people.

I just would like to say that I am very impressed with the intensity with which you (yelladawg)clutch to your ideals. I can not begin to understand the torture that you must have endured growing up at the hands of white people that could make you so adament about the fact that there has to be some kind of definate boundery drawn between the races. To make you think that something as simple as skin color could matter that much to you is very interesting and I have been reading every post you make in an attempt to understand this concept.

Just going out on a limb, but maybe you make too big of an issue of the whole race thing, and by doing so you create your own personally percieved racial injustices from white gay America when in actuality they feel jaded by you and believe that you are in fact being unjust to them, hence the cycle begins and neither side can grow.

We speak about opening our minds, but it is very difficult to open your mind when someone has placed you on the defensive. I like offense much more than defense. Hence I have been listening all along. I have even had my opinion changed a time or two on this board (by you Dawg, and others), but that is because I'm OPEN. I listen and re-evaluate my own stance constantly. That's called learning. We're all intellegent people here, lets try to listen to what's being said, instead of just reading the posts.

I only have one more question. How in God's-Great-Gay-Hell (heard that last term last night and loved it) did we turn this thread, about some dumbass hopping in and out of the closet, into a discussion about the finerey's of race relations in the gay community? I mean, WOW, can we digress? LMAO

Ok, back to the tangent.

I'll bet that any gay athlete visiting this site is following this thread with great interest, tangents and all.

What do you enjoy, maxallen? Japanese and Korean sushi? Kabobs with hummus? B-B-Que, potato salad, and green bean casserole? Roast chicken, red potatoes, and iced tea? Mexican food and margaritas?

Please keep up the visits, and remember: you're good for my.....um.....ego. Hope to read some of your original posts soon.

Everyone is welcome at Outsports as long as they play by the rules, one of which is "Criticize the opinion, not the person." We appreciate everyone's efforts to stay within that boundary. Thanks

A column from CNNSI.com which discusses Peterson..."Well, duh" quote of the week:

[quote] For the record, those close to him describe Peterson as confused at the moment.

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[quote]Originally posted by Joe in Philly:
A column from CNNSI.com which discusses Peterson..."Well, duh" quote of the week:

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Another choice quote: "I'm at peace with the people who allowed it to happen." Peace? Sounds like blame to me, as if his discomfort and confusion are someone else's fault, but he's oh-so-maturely forgiven them. Grow up, Déric. The one you've gotta forgive is yourself.

I don't normally comment on threads like this because my opinions about being out and out celebrities is different than most posters and I don't think we're going to change each other's minds.

That said, with all the positive role models in the world and all the real issues to be tackled, worrying about this guy and what he says is sort of the gay sports world equivalent of the Gary Condit story -- spicy/gossipy, something everyone has an opinion about, but generally inconsequential compared to actual work that needs to be done.

Deric Peterson has gotten pretty boring.
Personally I've had more fun reading the posts of MSUBobcat and Yelladawg, etc.

Talk about The Real World, Cora and what's-his-name (the blonde hunk from the midwest) have got nothing on you two.

I know, I know, nothing personal. But this thread has taken so many fun turns and brought out so much good (and healthy IMO) converstaion, that I just had to "give credit where it's due."

Wish they had an all gay-sports-lovers version of that show. Suppose the audience would be a bit limited.

What do ya say Yella? Should we take that as a compliment?

Sounds like enough of a compliment to me. Here, I'll take 'em any way I can get 'em.

[quote]Originally posted by MCMikeNamara:
my opinions about being out and out celebrities is different than most posters and I don't think we're going to change each other's minds.

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First of all, MCMike and sportinlife, you're right about DP -- even as I was writing the above, it occurred to me that he's a "cheap post".

And Mike, it would be interesting to hear those opinions, although this dying thread is probably not the right place...