For those that missed their appearance on Talk Balk Live today on CNN, here's a rough transcript of what happened. I started this separately from the Arli$$ thread, to make it easier to read if you've already been following that thread.
It was hosted by Arthell Neville, who introduced the segment by talking about John Rocker's latest outburst while at a "gay-friendly" restaurant he frequents in Dallas. She quoted his statement, and the GLAAD statement calling on the Rangers to reprimand Rocker, then asked for Jim Buzinski's, Outsports.com's founder, comments, followed by Billy Bean.
Jim: I think we all know Rocker is an idiot, so you take what he says with a grain of salt. I think if the Rangers are going to be creative and reprimand him they would force him to pitch on a gay softball team. I think that would be a fitting punishment for someone that has gone out of his way to insult gay people and people of all ethnicities.
Billy: We've all come to learn that Rocker speaks before he thinks, and whether he believes that, and obviously he does, if you look at the bigger picture, in the long run it makes people realize how silly and prejudiced they are and some good will come from it. Whether that comes at his expense that's his choice he has to make.
Rocker has invited this kind of judgment on him whereever he goes. He's offended a tremendous amount of people, not only gay and lesbians, but African-Americans, Latinos, people in the city of New York. He has opened the door for everybody and that is something he's going to have to experience probably the rest of his life. If someone wants to stand up for abuse that they were indirectly given--you know what? I'd probably have something to say to Rocker myself.
Caller: If no one denies if those people followed him out of the restaurant and accosted him then why would you be criticizing him--is it because homosexuals and lesbians can get away with anything but someone that's exercizing their First Amendment rights is in the wrong?
Jim: No--totally not. That's his version of events. People in the restaurant said it was unprovoked. Rocker's pitched before 55,000 in a World Series game and if he can't handle a few people taunting him, then he's not a professional and it's just disgraceful that he can't control his emotions and has to engage in gaybashing. That's pretty disgusting.
Arthell: If you think because he's a pro athlete he shouldn't get emotional in situations like that?
Jim: What I'm saying is that we have his version of events that he was taunted but if you get rattled by a few people saying things at a restaurant you have to show some self-control. We all do it in our lives every day. There are unpleasant situations, but we don't react by lashing out at the persons' perceived ethnicity or sexual orientation.
Arthell: The Waiter also said those people did not say anything to Rocker and his girlfriend.
Jim: Rocker is giving his version of events that make him in the best possible light.
Loren [audience member]: I think he's dumb, blind, and ignorant and he's digging a hole for himself because in our society now it's basically impossible to be homophobic because you don't know who's gay and who's not. Your best friend could be gay and just hasn't told you yet. He [Rocker] just needs to deal with it.
Arthell: Billy--you found yourself in the center of a controversy after a cameo on Arli$$. Let me show what has some calling for your "excommunication" so to speak: [showing a clip from Arli$$ where Billy says the player shouldn't come out]
Billy: I want to congratulate Jim Buzinski as he's created a great platform and environment at Outsports.com that lets people talk about issues and things that are topical in nature much like the Rocker incident. The last couple of weeks, the soundbites coming off the show, the question that was being directed to me was about this person's [ballplayer on Arli$$] career. The theme of the show was about Arliss showing compassion for his athlete whatever his decision. The difference between me being supportive of a professional athelete wanting to come out is completely different. I'm a living example of that. I believe that this is the way to live. My life has improved in too many ways to count. But the idea that 'Is baseball ready?' is another question altogether. I'm just speaking from my personal experience, not my politics. I've dedicated the last 3 years of my life traveling around the country speaking to students and young athletes an adults about the empowering ability of coming out to family, friends and parents, and feeling a sense of belonging, and using sports as that platform. So it's something that is an apple and orange. In a perfect world I would wish that every major-leaguer who's a homosexual would be able to come out, and I wish that I would have done it when I had played.
I don't say emphatically no [to coming out]. The thing that is is that the athlete needs to understand what that decision would entail and how that would change his career overnight. Ask Mike Piazza just via a rumor how his life turned New York City upside-down for a month. And that's just an unfounded rumor that a writer was suggesting. I look at it from the players' standpoint first--the individual, and how difficult it is to get to the Major Leagues, and wonderful and how much of a privilege it is to be in Major League Baseball and from that day forward it's really not about the ball--it's about the ramifications of his personal life.
I played for 10 years, the entire time I didn't say anything about being gay. I was really coming into my own and trying to understand it over a majority of that time, so the idea of me feeling confident enough to come out wasn't even a part of my life. Theoretically, if the player is ready I would love to meet with him and talk to him because I would applaud that, because where I was and the security of my career as a player, I just felt like I would be putting that in jeapardy. I have no objection to the idea that it would be a visible occurance for the gay & lesbian community and probably promote change, but for that player his life would be in an uproar overnight.
Arthell: What's the problem? Why wouldn't a gay player be accepted?
Billy: What are we opening the show with today? People and players like Rocker and the idea that homophobia is still involved in sports. I could be wrong. I'm just saying from my experience, I wish it were different.
Arthell: What did you experience?
The idea that all young male athletes have been trained to understand is that homosexuality is like the last link in the chain, stereotypically, to weakness and bad athletes. If a guy drops the ball, they'll say an epithet that says he's gay. Or if another player on another team is injured and won't get up. It's a constant reminder that homosexuals are weak and not strong, and that's not true. For the thousands of young athletes that are behind this person at a major-league level, if indeed that experience is not positive, it's going to sway them backwards, so we're going to lose. In the big picture, the majority--we're getting so close to becoming so mainstream and being accepted by the content of our character and not the orientation of our sexuality. And we're almost there, and I'm afraid that one negative highly visible experience could set us backwards, and I want us to keep moving forward, and that's what I've dedicated my life to.
Jim: I think there's always a possibility of being negative, but that's not a reason to not advance rights. I think that anybody that would do this would have really strongly considered the consequences. They would know their own situation and this person would have done enough ground work, and wouldn't spring it on their team haphazardly. I think someone that would have the courage and strength to do that would be someone that could succeed. Because you'd have to live in a cave to not know how society might react to it. I've heard that Billy say--and I agree with it--that it's more likely to be a star than can do this, that can weather the storm. Someone that is so valuable to his team that [Arthell: Everyone would look the other way] Because they have to. If someone the equivelent of Pedro Martinez came out as gay, that team would not cut him because he's just too good. Now if someone on the margins...not someone on the caliber of Pedro. It's nice to hear Billy being supportive of this. That's one thing I haven't heard from him in the last year is this more nuanced thing that he would be right there giving this person his support because this person--whoever comes out--is going to need a lot of it.
Billy: I've spoken to a lof ot ex players and the idea for someone to be there is vital but the dynamics of the people around that player...And what he said is exactly true. The player will have to think long and hard: this is basically a life-changing decision. And most athletes are so consumed with their career and ability to be successful. I was married for part of [10 years] I was in the big leagues at a very young age. I grew up in LA where every player was married. A lot of pressure to be married and be part of the engine of professional sports. It's a very sexy environment. The sexuality and prowees--the strength and look of an athlete is all rolled into one. I grew up around sports, and having a beautiful woman on your arm after a home run is like having a beer. It's a part of American folklore.
Audience member [young woman]: I don't think that anyone should feel they have to hide their sexuality because it's basically living a lie. He felt he had to get married to fit in. I don't think that's fair. I don't think anyone should have to hide their sexuality because that's a part of who you are. It's not a huge part of who you are--I don't feel I have to tell people I'm hetero. I think it should be your choice and you shouldn't have to hide it.
Edited so now all 3 parts are posted.
[moderator corrected typo]
[ August 07, 2002: Message edited by: m1 ]