Hey Guys,

My partner and I are producing a documentary about Gays in Sports. We already have confirmed interest from several celebrated athletes that are now “out”, along with other scientists, experts, etc. Our documentary will follow the stories and struggles of several gay athletes juxtaposed with interviews and stories form the pro-players and other interviewees.

We are looking for pro or pro-aspiring athletes who are presently experiencing homophobia or homophobic-based fear in their sport/day to day lives.

We are looking for strong individuals with compelling stories, who are willing to tell us about their experiences.

We are located in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. For this reason, stories with a Canadian angle are especially encouraged, however any story that “needs to be told” is welcomed.

Thanks for looking this over. If you would like further information or have a story to share, please send us an email at: sports@digital7.ca Please let us know a bit about yourself and your situation.

Look forward to hearing for you!

Wow, GOOD LUCK!
If you come to NYC, holler and I'll be happy to buy some pizza and/or beer or something for the crew... I'm sure some other Outsporters would love to have a beer with you and hear how your research/filming is going.

Just a question for you guys?

Are you only going to focus on negative experiences? ...

'Our documentary will follow the stories and struggles of several gay athletes juxtaposed with interviews and stories form the pro-players and other interviewees.

We are looking for pro or pro-aspiring athletes who are presently experiencing homophobia or homophobic-based fear in their sport/day to day lives.'

... Why not include those who have had positive experiences of 'acceptance' and 'respect'.

Sometimes we're very good at looking at a glass as half empty .. when actually we could be looking at it half full?

Chris Morgan
Team England, Powerlifting

Actually the common story for gay athletes is just the opposite of struggle and strife. My research clearly shows that gay athletes, at all levels, are not ostracized or marginalized, many exist within a don't ask, don't tell culture, but many find their sexuality celebrated.

I will be discussing this finding, and other findings from my research on openly gay athletes on KPBS.org Wed morning at 10:15 Pacific Time.

Or you can see my new book at my website. www.CoachGumby.com

Thank you for the replies guys, I guess our posting sound a bit negative. I should explain a bit more about the documentary. We know that being out is not always a bad thing... Our documentary will feature many uplifting and happy stories. We're following a gay league for the entire summer. Our need is to also show the other side, which we all know still exists. As long as the story is compelling, something that would make a person that is not interested in the topic watch, this is what we are looking for. It doesn't have to be about homophobia, perhaps education... like on a team where the player fears coming out because of the attitudes his team members (even though the outcome may very well be positive) We want to capture this kind of story. For us, everything hinges on the hook of the story. Any and all ideas are greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks,

Doug Church

Doug,

You ought be very careful not to reproduce fears in those who are already hyper-afraid. My research on openly gay athletes, over the previous six years, conclusively shows that physical assault, or even verbal marginalization is not occuring among openly gay male athletes at all levels of organized sport in Canada and the United States. The last sport-related gay bashing I know of was 1995. I'm not saying that nothing else has happened, I am saying that of the hundreds of openly gay athletes I've talked with, NONE have reported it. I do not suppose to know what your project is about exactly, but I do know that you DID NOT return my personal e mail regarding this. And this makes me suspicious. I sure hope you weigh the advantage of the grant/funding you might recieve with this project proposal, versus the perpetration of what research shows is groundless fear. I.E. Your statement that "we all know exists" is planely faulty. Are you trying to be part of the problem, or a solution to it? Reflect carefully, and perhaps consult those who have spent years researching this issue. If you don't want to talk with me, talk to Dan Woog, Pat Griffin, or Cyd & Jim on Outsports.

Eric Anderson, Ph.D.

I also don't pretend to know what their project is about. However I think I read their posts differently than you did, Eric.

I didn't see them mention "bashing" at all. I also didn't see what I'd consider capitalizing on fear or trying to perpetuate it.

What I saw, and anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, is them looking for stories where fear (such as homophobia or fear of homophobia) have kept athletes in the closet.

Now THAT is something we all DO know exists. In fact, I was held hostage by that until just recently as the string of posts right below this one shows. In fact, to a degree it is still true for me since I still haven't told my players that I am gay, although everyone else in my life now is aware.

Your concerns about perpetuating fear are valid, but I gleaned from their post that they wanted to use stories of that "fear" which keeps athletes in the closet to educate straight athletes about the damage their homophobic (or just plain habitual) comments about "fags, sissies, homos" and etc can cause.

My two cents -

That would be an excellent focus if you guys can find examples, and I think you will (based on some of the interviews and bios on this site, as well as some of the profiles in Dan Woog's books).

As Frustrated__Coach points out, the fear (among athletes and coaches themselves) of an adverse income often keeps people in the closet, even when that adverse outcome doesn't end up happening. The contrast between expectation and reality can make for a compelling story.

By the way, I just got Coach Gumby's book. I haven't had time to read it yet, but from the table of contents, I recognize at least one profile as having appeared in some form on Outsports (the high school basketball player, who I assume is in college by now and may or may not be "out" but, just guessing, probably isn't playing college ball). I recommend getting the book (and contacting Coach Gumby, and the others he mentioned, for advice, because they know their stuff).

God forbid Eric Anderson be denied another chance to self-promote. As if that 'Gilligan's Island' idiocy weren't enough.

Yes. Yes, Strider (what's your real name?) I'm just a self-promoting, ego driven lunatic. So, your right. Of course, there is always an outside chance, however so small, that I'm actually concerned about the status of gays in sport and the reification of victimization model. Naa.. Never mind all that smart stuff, I'm just an egotistical maniac.

Eric

Any "self-promotion" by Coach Gumby is actually promoting the issue of homophobia in sports. Regardless of your opinion of Eric, even if he is relentlessly "self-promoting" (an opinion I don't agree with) the important issue of gays in sports is being disseminated every time he puts himself out there.

Absolutely! :cool:

And that's what I hope this documentary does too.

Whew guys quite the debate going on here. This documentary is not meant to take any sides and is certainly not focused on gay bashing. (Although to presume that you know that no gay athletes have been bashed since 1995 makes me question your research techniques. Just because something is not documented or reported does not mean it does not occur. But this is an aside)

Our documentary is going to portray and discuss the struggles that gay athletes face. Our producers and the director are all gay and the director's last two projects were focused on gays in difficult situations that triumphed. Even though some pretty hateful things happened to them, but that's life right? I certainly didn't grow up and come out a la Will and Grace, I had a hell of a time, as many people still do.

We want to follow gay athletes and document what it is like for them, illustrate the differences that there may be for them. Discuss their history and struggles along with the positives and highs. Whether that results in a positive or negative story is out of our hands, that is the principle of documentary filming - Neutral representation of the story and whatever happens during it's course.

So everyone, please don't think we are looking to portray a negative sensational angle, we are not Fox news and our funding is laughable, so to say we are looking to profit is a big presumption. What we are looking for is athletes, coaches and people involved in the world of sports who are willing to share their stories and discuss their opinions on the matter.
Our goal is to educate and enlighten the world about this issue. ie. Why are there so few gay professional athletes, especially on the big league teams like NHL, NFL and NBA? To do this I feel you need compelling stories about strong people, not Hollywood Happy Drama's.

As for why we didn't write Coach Gumby, we are not really looking to spotlight one persons research or advertise their books. Plus looking on the posts he seems far from the neutral we would be seeking from an academic and we already have two respected Canadian Sports Psychologists and the head of a large athletic league to offer that side of things, the doc is about athletes not academics.

Thanks everyone for posting and please any athletes who want to share, email us and we will call you. You don't have to participate unless you feel comfortable with what we are doing. Hope to talk to some of you soon.

If you don't talk to Coach Gumby personally first, and then make your decision as to whether you want to include him in your documentary, then you're making a foolish error. And as for his not being "neutral," why would you want someone who doesn't have a strong opinion one way or the other?

Are your sports psychologists and head of the athletic league gay? Why would you not want to interview someone who coached and is openly gay?

Well Digital boys, you managed to raise my feathers. Not because of the fact that your professional etiquette includes not returning e mails; rather because you questioned my academic integrity.

So the claws come out.

Digital boys, (ps why not use your real names?)

I went into my research expecting the world of the gay male athlete to be one of the same strife that I experienced after coming out in 1993 - as an openly gay coach. Since then, I’ve dedicated my life to empirically studying the issue. During the previous six years, I have researched this issue from the top to bottom: I have interviewed, transcribed, coded, and blind-verified my coding. I’ve read every bit of research even remotely related to the topic, and studied any relevant theory. I have consulted with all the recognized experts in the field, and built on their theories. My research has been subject to blind review of 8 other scholars with expertise in the field. I have talked with, interviewed, and followed through with their experience on hundreds of openly gay and closeted gay athletes. I’ve conducted in-depth ethnographies of gay athletes on their teams, which includes hundreds of hours of observation. I’ve read all the relevant research and know personally all the researchers involved in this field. I've expanded my research to include the work of many other scholars, and had my work verified by theirs.

All of this research was read by, commented on, and contributed to by sport psychologists, and sport sociologist. The research was subject to a blind-review process, rigorious panels at a number of prestegious academic conferences, and awarded by the American Sociological Association.

So you, two Jonny come lately's are willing to discount this research? Research you’ve not even read? You’re willing to say that the most respected academics in the field, that the academic reviewers at SUNY Press, are all just wrong? That you’re going to come along and figure out everything with a few interviews and your going to discount my research as just plane flat out biased?

This, of course, brings me to the crux. You say I'm biased, that you question my methods. Please, inform me what does my research show? And what, exactly is my bias? Where is my methodological flaw? Did I use the wrong chai-square? What?

I’m glad you’ve consulted with sport psychologists. That’s great. If they work in this field, I’m sure I know them, and I assume they won’t be anonymous. So what are their names, academic affiliations, and departments? I’d love to find out what research they have conducted on the subject.

So maybe I’m all wrong. Maybe I’m totally bias, my years of research and the blind verification of it is totally bunk. Maybe you will come along and answer all the questions with a few interviews. Maybe I’m just an egotistical maniac who wants to promote my book so that I can make 80 cents a copy, maybe I’m a lunatic, OR, maybe, just maybe digital boys, I’m a reputable researcher who uses strict methods? NAAAA, your right, I’m just bias, because you’ve read my research on OutSports, and Strider has confirmed that I'm an ego-maniac.

Okay, so now its time for me to question your integrity:

You say your doing a professional job on this sooooo: Can you post for us the following?

1) Your actual and full names
2) Your institutional affiliation, and IRB approval number if it’s through a university
3) The name of your funding source, however so small
4) A copy of your grant/funding proposal
5) The names, academic affiliations, departments, and published research of your experts
6) What empirical research you’ve read, what the dominant paradigms are, and how my research is biased?
7) How you will control for subject reliability, and validity?
8) How you will know that the few stories you get, reflect the larger cultural phenomenona?
9) Will you be using grounded theory? And what model of interviewing will you use? What coding process?


I so luck forward to hearing from you on this Digital boys. I truly look forward to seeing how you answer all these questions without bias. Please, please teach me. My ego just can't take knowing that you figured out how to do this without bias, and I just got it all wrong. I'm dying here guys. My ego is offended, and my book sales are plummeting by the minute. I think I might just have to return to the land of OZ, and pull the green curtain over my levers to hide my lack of research integrity. Where is that damn baloon for me to escape in?

So please, share with us Digital Boys. And please post it for all of us to read.

Eric Anderson

No. That is the reason you don't want to interview him for your documentary (which is fine). Deciding not to use him in your work is exclusive from communicating your decision of not using his point of view. You didn't reply to his email because you lack professional tact. You don't want his viewpoint? FINE. Tell him that! Why on Earth should anyone contact you if your response is cold silence?

And that's fine ... but unless you're under some illusion that not at least looking at anyone's research gives you some sort of divine objectivity (a common belief among documentary filmmakers), wouldn't you want to look at as many people's research (not just one person's) as possible? Just for background and to avoid reinventing the wheel? That's all I was getting at.

Focusing on first-person stories is fine. I hope you get plenty. I just think that, the more "homework" you do first, the better you'll be able to put those stories in context. :cool:

As for the "flame war" going on in this thread ... enough already. Time! eek!

Danimal ... if there is one in the Gay Games thread, why not in here?

[ February 03, 2005, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Allen ]

We can only hope. frown

Dear Coach Gumby:
We really didn't start this forum to cause a debate, we are simply seeking input from gay and lesbian athletes involved in pro and semi-pro team sports.

However, some points for you to consider:

1- Try not to be so suspicious of other peoples motives, we are actually very nice people who intend to make a very gay positive film. I assure you that once the movie is released, you can offer all the opinions that you care to offer (to anyone that will listen), until then it really isn't any of your business.

2- Don't assume that people have the time to go online and respond to your posts or emails as rapidly as you seem to be able to fire them off. We are busy people and have to prioritize. We would likely have responded to your email within a reasonable time frame, but after seeing how you handle yourself in the discussion thread and after looking into your Outsports profile and personal website, we have no interest in your negative attitude and aggressive, almost badgering style of dealing with people.

Consider your own Outsports profile which has the following:
"Favorite Sports Teams: I hate most all professional sports."

Our documentary is about pro athletes involved in team sports, why would we want to bring someone who hates team sports to the project?

3- Chill out and please stop posting to us, we really don't want to hear any more of your negative input. There are probably many more important issues for you to deal with in your life than worrying about our film. Thanks.

As for anyone for everyone else reading the thread or chatting in this forum, thanks for your input and consideration.

Exactly what I thought, your quacks. I e-mailed you on Jan 18th because an outsports reader who had contacted you about this project thought "something stunk" regarding a funding issue. I wrote you a professional e-mail offering to help you - for free - with information and connections to openly gay and closeted athletes. By the 29th you had yet to return my e mail.

So now Outsports readers know that if they contact you, they are not dealing with competent professionals who understand how to get at complex social issues. And if it took me looking like an ass**** to some Outsports readers, that is okay. I'm more concerned with the status of gays in sport, the message that we send to our gay youth, and the manner in which it is represented in the media, than I am whether or not annonymous digital boys think I'm an overly aggressive ass**** or not for devoting my life to this issue.

Notice yet again, I'm posting my real name. Not a screename. At least I'm willing to stake a claim to my aggression on this issue.

Eric Anderson, Ph.D.
www.CoachGumby.com

Of course Eric, your thoughts always turn out right don't they? Funding issue? We have never discussed or been contacted regarding any funding issues and at this point your story has gone into outright fabrications. Anyone who reads this thread and/or checks out your website will understand immediately what kind of person you are. Please stop posting to us, as we are not going to respond to you anymore. Thanks.

PS Nice message you are sending gay youths with your attitude and approach.

P.P.S. We are more than willing to share our identities and full project details with anybody who chooses to contact us, who we feel genuinely wishes to contribute to the project in a positive and proactive manner. At this stage we are merely protecting our project and our subjects from the type of attacks you see here.
Thanks again.

"Our documentary is going to portray and discuss the struggles that gay athletes face." So will it be a "Kids In The Study Hall" doing "Query Eye For The Straight Guy" with an "it's okay because some of us are gay too" presentation style?

A rational person would think that anyone willing to discuss their struggle might have contacted Eric Anderson. Some might even want to cross reference an "athlete registry" with those who want to be contacted as a resource.

I assume from his background that Coach Gumby did a web search to reference "Digital7" out of Canada. If he came across the pages I did, he would also have doubt. As far as a company site goes, not bad, could be better. The problem is that it is for the wrong profession. If you need a video production company the "Digital Boys" could likely do a nice job. I would need to see a more extensive portfolio somewhere down the line. If you need a scientist/sociologist to accurately gather and present data for a film, perhaps Eric Anderson would be a better choice. There is a word for that, is it "collaberation" ?

Perhaps it is just me. I know before I invest a lot of resources into something, I do the research first. Personally, I would be flattered if someone like Eric Anderson Phd. took my project seriously to begin with.

After monitoring something like 30 pages of spewing vitriol on the first Gay Games Schism thread, I've come to the conclusion that, yes, it is fair to judge someone from reading their postings.

Maybe "judge" is the wrong word. Maybe determining that the posting party is someone who you don't want to know, communicate with, work with, or interact with in any way whatsoever, would be a better way to put it.

Eric, who are you to demand entrance into someone else's project? I mean, really, what is the problem? You have projects of your own. Is it really worth getting your knickers in a huge knot because someone doesn't answer your email? What a waste of resources.

I must point out that coach Gumby is not dealing in fabrications.

I contacted Digitalboys very shortly after the orginal posting.

With concerns regarding the 'angle' of their film.

(You will see my posting on the 18th Jan)

I emailed Digitalboys the same day with my concerns over the subject matter of their film.

In a reply to myself Digitalboys explained that the film content needed to contain those experiencing homophobia or homophobic-based fear in their sport/day to day lives.

In order to stand better chance of obtaining the funding that was needed for the project.

...

Following this ..

In correspondence to Coach Gumby I expressed my concerns that it would be a shame if the 'angle' of the film was to be directed by the funding that was to feed it.

...

Coach Gumby's statement is 100% true ...

I was the reader who was email correspondence with him and expressing concerns ..

Chris Morgan
Team England Powerlifting & Gay Games Ambassador