The occassionally funny HBO sitcom "Arliss" will feature Grant Show (yum! -- the stud from Melrose Place) as a gay baseball player thinking about coming out. Billy Bean makes a cameo appearance. It's on Sunday night (7/21)

This from the Washington Blade:

"This series about a money-grubbing, egomaniacal sports agent is usually a grating annoyance, but the episode, titled "Playing it Safe," is a funny and interesting look at gays in sports.

In the episode, Grant Show (looking even hotter than in his "Melrose Place" days) plays a gay baseball player who is thinking about coming out of the closet. Arliss talks to real-life gay baseball player Billy Bean (who’s no Grant Show, but still not too shabby, who advises Arliss’ client against coming out, saying that baseball and America aren’t ready for a gay player. After seeing the reaction of his teammates to other gays, Show decides he’d rather be a fielder than an outfielder.

Though I think the episode’s logic may be a little sloppy and ill-advised, the fact that Arliss tells his client that he will support him no matter what his decision is a good sign for gays on TV (but this isn’t TV…). All in all, the episode will give you plenty to think about and may spark some discussion at your favorite sports bar (no, JR’s doesn’t count).

Oh, and did I mention the locker room scene? Yeah, you heard that right."

It comes on right after "Sex and the City"

[ July 20, 2002: Message edited by: DCBucky ]

I dislike Arli$$. The only good thing about it is the Dusty Springfield song it uses as a theme song.

The plot line sounds interesting, but its gonna take alot to get me to watch Arliss. Its HBO's worst show, IMO. But I may tune in for Grant Show! Yum!!!

I'll watch it once more just for this plotline. There was one episode that was kind of funny -- when a boxer was advised not to get laid before a fight -- and Arliss had to make sure he remained apart from his wife. Other than that it's a dud. The only times I've ever seen the show are when I tape "Sex and the City" -- and it's easier on my VCR to let it go for an hour!

Just finished watching the episode. Oh man! There's two hours I'll never get back. You know when an untrained actor, Billy Bean, is the best actor on the show, you're in trouble. Truly asinine show, IMO.

Two hours? What did you do, sit there in shock for an hour-and-a-half afterward?

I guess the plot was pretty much as expected, but it is still nice to see the subject addressed. Too bad they couldn't show some supportive ballplayers in the locker room as well as the homophobes.

My mini-review

MSUBulldog wrote, [quote]Two hours? What did you do, sit there in shock for an hour-and-a-half afterward?

---

ROTFLMAO

I happened to have watched last night. Never saw the show prior. Having SATC as a lead-in probably got alot of gay viewers. I also was saddened mostly (a little pissed as well) by Billy Bean. His remarks may very well be motivated by selfish interests as suggested elsewhere. Question; why is the focus only on pro baseball these days? No homos in the NFL or NHL?

[quote]Question; why is the focus only on pro baseball these days? No homos in the NFL or NHL?

---

Hockey and football are sports for real men.

If you were only a little pissed at Billy Bean, you're a far better man than I am.

It's like the underlying idea of this show was

a.) All your teammates will hate you.
b.) You'll be alone.

to which I would respond

a.) Your teammates probably already know.
b.) You'll never be alone because any out gay ballplayer will be embraced as a hero by the gay community.

But with people like Billy Bean saying "You shouldn't come out" it will never happen. Progress will always be impeded.

Maybe they should have gotten Mike Piazza to do the episode. He has a far more gay-friendly attitude.

Bean is getting to be very tired. Let's revoke his membership. <----------- SARCASM

[ August 05, 2002: Message edited by: redsoxbreath ]

You left out the NBA. Probably because there is currently more gay sex in the NBA than MLB, the NFL and the NHL combined.

What about Major League Soccer? Because if there's a lot of gay sex there, I'm going to start going to more games.

It truly is a lousy show. The subplots were ridiculous, but there was actually a few little nuggets of worthiness in the show (Show being one of them). I am torn about Bean's assessment. He is entitled to his opinion but he seems to broach no room for the possibility that others may have an easier go at being out. I hope that when a few ballplayers have come out in the midst of their careers and are still able to play the game, maybe Bean will back down from his rigidity. Still, it was nice to see the subject broached and that it was handled pretty well, considering that the rest of the episode was handled pretty ham handedly.

I personally like Arli$$. It's not a documentary about the sports business anymore than the Chris Izack show is a documentary about the Music business. They are situation comedy's (sit-com's) (translated, a comedy about a person in the situation of being a sports promoter). We are not talking 48 hours. I didn't get to see this particular episode, but it sounds like they did a half way decent job of at least showing a different side to the issue. They showed a promoter/agent that was willing to support the athlete no matter what the final choice was. This has been the hotbed of discussion with relation to someone coming out, the loss of endorsements and lack of support from the industry in the event that someone came out. The fact that they brought in Bean was a moot point. We all already knew his take on things. The important aspect was Arli$$'s take on the issue, and I think that was great.

As a side note: I find it very humorous how a lot of people are always looking for deeper meaning behind all these television shows when in actuality they are just there for fun.

Originally posted by redsoxbreath:

Billy Bean is getting to be very tired. Let's revoke his membership.

I'm starting to agree with this sentiment. Even though I'm trying my best not to begin a campaign for Bean's "gay excommunication," I have to wonder aloud why he has become the self-appointed Mother Superior dispensing well-intentioned but poorly-reasoned --and ultimately, detrimental-- "blanket advice" for every gay athlete in professional sports. And I'm tempted to believe that Billy Bean has come to enjoy basking in the glow that his "15 minutes of fame" has provided him, as the straight-canonized "patron saint of gays in sports," that it has blinded him to the fact that he's merely parroting the age-old, straight-world threat of "Stay in the closet, faggot, or you'll suffer the consquences." I actually admire Billy Bean but I wish he would realize his approach is based on fear, and fear doesn't improve things. I'd also like to ask him two questions:

"Do you think you'd still be invited to make guest appearances on sports talk-shows and television episodes if you changed your tune, and began to support gay professional sports-team members in their fundamental decision to live openly --just as heterosexuals express themselves openly-- because after all, that is everyone's right?

"Would you be disappointed if you fell out of the media's limelight because you no longer espoused sports' status quo?"

Okay, I promise I'll try to be calm, now, even though I'm nearly hyperventilating over this issue. I sincerely do believe that Billy Bean made the best decision about the way to come out, for his individual circumstances. But I am steadfast in the conviction that EACH individual should be granted our blessing to decide for themselves what is best, in their particular situation.
Billy Bean, don't you understand that being openly gay means having the courage to let others follow their hearts? Perhaps you could emulate the refreshing integrity of several straight Major League Baseball players who, when they've been questioned about the possibility of a teammate coming out as gay, have simply replied "I don't have any problem with that." This response would at least free you to pursue the career you want in professional baseball, while releasing the inertia your previously-spoken anxieties might be causing for other gay athletes. Is that too much to ask?

[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: fielderschoice ]

What I find most disturbing is that a lot of gay people will see this and think, "Yeah, Billy Bean is right." And that will increase this sense of them against us.

Lots and lots of people will see this and... and...

On the other hand, this is Arli$$ we're talking about.

I thought the show was pretty good! Definitely one of the better Arli$$ episodes (and how about those gratuitous lockerroom shots - it brought back memories of Oz).

I would hope you guys would give Arli$$ some slack for at least having a sports subject matter. The fact that the show chose "the hot topic" - the gay baseball player - shows that it's trying to be topical.

As for Billy Bean - I never thought I'd be defending the guy but - at least he was in a Major League lockerroom. Face it - he's more informed than most of us. Plus, this guy is trying to get back in baseball - his opinions are colored by his circumstance. He's trying to get a job! No front office is going to hire Billy if they think he comes with a political agenda.

Having Arliss mistaken for being gay by the client who chooses to leave him was the most effective part of the show. It allowed Arliss and the audience to see how it feels to be discriminated against simply for being gay. Where the show utterly failed was choosing a flamboyant and idiotic british rock star to represent Gay. It was obvious that the Grant Show character would never in a million years be attracted to such a character. Billy Bean again comes off as self-pitying and fearful even years after coming out. It's a silly show but at least it tried to do something of impact. Personally I think Curb your Enthusiam is far worse.

[quote]Originally posted by hanknyc:
I would hope you guys would give Arli$$ some slack for at least having a sports subject matter. The fact that the show chose "the hot topic" - the gay baseball player - shows that it's trying to be topical.

---

Arliss can be as topical as much as it wants. But it might help matters if, seeing as it is suppossed to be a comedy, it were in the least bit funny. I've had more laughs doing the dinner dishes. As others have pointed out, the subplots (and the really bad actors playing them out) were just absurd.

I swear Robert Wuhl must have pictures of the Chairman of HBO fornicating with goats while a monkey licks his balls and a pair of underage siamese twins eats his ass. Its the only possible explanation for a show so consistently poorly written, horribly acted and downright unfunny to stay on the air this long.

All I can say is............ Baywatch, 90210. he he he

Thank you George for that grotesque image which will now haunt me everynight is my nightmare.

Originally posted by hanknyc:

[Billy Bean] is trying to get back in baseball - his opinions are colored by his circumstance. He's trying to get a job! No front office is going to hire Billy if they think he comes with a political agenda.

I agree with you, hanknyc. I also think Bean may actually be jeopardizing his own chances of coaching in the Major Leagues by being too visible on either side of this question. I've never been on the inner workings of a baseball franchise, but I might have reservations, if I were the personnel director of a sports organization, about hiring someone who was already nearing "poster boy" status, with the additional aura of "media sycophant" around him, and that's the impression I'm starting to get about Billy Bean. It strikes me that Bean is not even helping himself back into baseball. It's entirely possible that he's hedging his opportunities because he's uncertain whether his career path lies in professional sports, the sports media or the performing arts, and honestly, I wish him every success in whatever field that chooses him; however, I can't help but believe that a simple, straightforward response of "I'm okay with gay athletes being out, if they choose" demonstrates more of the fortitude that employers want to see in their staff, and if he's asked to elaborate on that statement he can reply "We can't predict a situation before it happens; we can only pledge to do our best and be our best, and hopefully we'll be equal to the occasion." It's bland, it sounds slightly rehearsed (like most pronouncements in sports) it calls everyone to be on their good behavior, and perhaps most importantly for Billy Bean himself, it deflects the wrong kind of attention away from Bean, so he can get down to the real nuts-and-bolts of proving how valuable he would be to an organization. Wouldn't this be better than popping up on our TV screens every few weeks and wringing his hands, as he seems to be doing? Consider this: Why would a baseball franchise hire an openly gay coach who has opined repeatedly that an openly gay player would be too disruptive on a professional team? Aren't they just taking him at his word by not hiring him? I think Bean would improve his own chances by saying, as others have said, "It's no big deal."
All right, that's the end of my sermon! I'll give it a rest...

[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: fielderschoice ]

Great post! As I was reading other replies and thinking about Bean's appearance on the show, I drew the same conclusion. Who of Bean's teammates have come forward to say something about his post-MLB-career coming-out? He is alienating himself by stating his opinion. But let's not be too critical, at least he is an out athlete with an opinion, right?

As for a career in the performing arts, let's hope he has some singing talent. Because his acting skills are not going to get him anywhere. Unless he uses non-original material... I kept thinking his whole speech on the show has been repeated by him so many times that he doesn't have any emotion left.

Bean has said he was surprised by the positive reaction to his coming out. When he acts like the seer who can predict, remember he did NOT come out while active, so his speculation os just that.

reading over the posts on Billy Bean, I get the impression that people are shooting the messenger. They don't like what Billy Bean has to say, so they try to undermine his credibility and character to somehow prove to themselves and others that Billy Bean is just plain wrong.

Perhaps it is Bean's character to be more cowardly than courageous. Perhaps Bean's individual perspective was too negative and not representative of MLB as a whole. Or perhaps things have changed enough in the 7 years since Bean has been out of baseball that his opinion is now out of date. But then why get your dander up and get all upset about what he has to say? And guess what? As much as you might not want to hear his take on things, he knows a helluva lot more about the inner workings of Major League Baseball than any of us do.

I guess I just get the creepy sense that people who get so worked up about the possibility of a gay MLBer want someone else to face all the difficulties, deal with all the sh*t, suffer all the headaches, just so their own lives are improved -- snap, crackle, pop, without any effort whatsoever on their part. Billy Bean is entitled to his opinion, a far more informed opinion than most. If you disagree, fine, you're entitled to yours as well. But if you get all worked up about it, I have to suspect that something else is going on.

I was under the impression that Bean actually played in the major leagues?
How dare he pontificate to us men not to come out in the professional sports world. I mean only men like us, who have been in the MLB lockerrooms, could gauge and assess their fellow team mates reaction to an athlete coming out.
C'mon, not every gay person wants or needs to be the spokesperson for their sexuality.

So why are you so worked up, BoSox?

I think it's easy to see why people on a gay sports web site would be disappointed in Billy Bean's opinions. He doesn't encourage truth or honesty, he just goes on about how difficult coming out today in MLB would be...like, duh, no one says it's going to be easy, coming out never is, that's the whole goddamn point - being gay isn't easy, coming out into a homophobic world isn't easy, being proud and honest about who you love isn't easy either - but I think they used to call character building.

If, BoSox, you're not interested in helping young gay people cope, or in making it easier for the coming generations of gay people to come out, than you might consider taking a deeper glance at your own issues regarding being gay.

bryan d, for you to insist that I have no interest in helping others come out or making it easier for gays and lesbians in the future is a personal attack, and I won't tolerate it.

What I am saying is that I'm not so selfish as to expect someone else to do it for me. We're always so insistent, and rightfully so, that our private lives are just that, private. For that reason, I am dismayed when I see gays/lesbians criticizing others for their individual beliefs and actions. If I insist that Jerry Falwell has no right to barge into my life and micromanage how I live it, then what right do I have to tell Billy Bean how he should think or behave? Yet too many gays/lesbians conveniently forget this fundamental premise of gay rights whenever it suits their own agenda. A closeted politician does something perceived as anti-gay? Some gays hypocritically believe that they are entitled to out him. A former MLBer states his honest opinion about what it would be like for a MLBer to come out? Oh, Billy Bean must have kind of selfish agenda going on. I think Rosie's response to her critics fits Billy Bean's situation quite well, "I don't have to be gay like you. I have to be gay like me."

Hey, I just said that I had a sense, a suspicion. I wasn't attacking anyone personally, nor was I getting all worked up, even if you seem to think otherwise. Whatever the case, please return to a civil and respectful tone.

I will not tolerate any future personal attacks.

[quote]Originally posted by hanknyc:
As for Billy Bean - I never thought I'd be defending the guy but - at least he was in a Major League lockerroom. Face it - he's more informed than most of us. Plus, this guy is trying to get back in baseball - his opinions are colored by his circumstance. He's trying to get a job! No front office is going to hire Billy if they think he comes with a political agenda.

---

They don't seem to be hiring him now.

Other than being a former player (and not a very good one) what qualifications does he have, anyway?

Picking up on points made by hanknyc and joe -

One serious roadblock beyond Bean's public personna is a lack of continuity. Many people who had little or no MLB success (Tommy Lasorda and Sparky Anderson, to name two) went on to stellar coaching/managerial careers, but they were tied to an organizational structure that immediately began to hone their coaching skills and build their reputations within the organization for being good teachers of fundamentals.

Bean, out of baseball since 95, and having played part of his carer in Japan, seems to suffer from a lack of one or more mentors and also the contacts ("networking" if you will) to get that first chance to show what he can do. It's a bit of a conundrum for him....

Bean often comes on Ed Kaplan's late evening radio show on WQAM - Kaplan, an older, steeped-in-lore conversationalist, draws good stories out of Bean (well beyond the gay issue) - Bean does have good baseball knowledge and speaks with a well-modulated voice. Maybe a career in the media as a commentator would be in the offing?

Bean was embarassingly wimpy and weepy when I saw him on a TV interview. There's no crying in baseball!!

You guys need to get off Bean's back. It's not like he volunteered his opinion. People in the media approached him and asked. He just didn't give the answer that all you holier than thou queers wanted. He's the closest thing to an out professional baseball player, post retirement. That leads to speculation about active ballplayers. The gay community asks, if there was one there's got to be more? Yeah, sure, but those that aren't in the shoes of these ballplayers think they should be able to flip some kind of switch and bust down the closet door. After that do you think it's gonna end like an episode of that shitty show "Friends"? No, I wouldn't count on it. Step out of your safe urban microcosm and look at the bigger picture.

BoSox - there was no personal attack nor an uncivil tone in my post. Just questioning why you would call it selfish for other gays to want Billy Bean to be a little more ballsy, a little more supportive of the future. Having said that, I'm sorry for any offense taken.

Budge - No one's asking Billy Bean to do anything for them; his status in the media isn't really significant enough to cause many waves. But, while his answers may be based on his past experience, though he's been away from active play for several years, is it too much to ask that he give some hope to future ball players some of whom may be gay? Is it to much to ask that he looks towards the future and the evolution of gays and sports rather than sigh and shake his head over just how difficult it all is. I'm pretty damn sure it wasn't easy for Jackie Robinson, or Martina Navratilova, or Rosa Parks, or anyone else willing to take a stand against discrimination, prejudice, and the status quo.

And, Budge, good luck with your anger management.

Billy made a conscious choice to be on Arli$$; one doesn't just happen to show up on a series. His performance is fair game.

As for the media, Billy can always decline interviews. If he gives an interview, his comments are also fair game. He is thrusting himself in front of the public as the expert on this; he's not being subpoenaed.

What if Billy Bean's opinion is his honest, unvarnished take on things? People here suspect that he has a personal agenda, or believe that he's a coward. But what if Billy Bean (God forbid) speaks the truth? That it would be impossible for an MLBer to be openly gay? If you don't want to hear that, frankly, tough shit. You can attack his credibility all you want, but he's played Major League Baseball, and (I'm guessing) you never have and never will.

bryan d, when you accused me of not caring about other gays/lesbians or wanting to make things better, you accused me of selfishness, which is a personal attack. When you insisted that I needed to look at my "issues", let's be honest here, telling someone he "has issues" is just a gussied-up, pop-psych-babble way of saying, "you are really f**ked up, pal." You apologized, but only because I, according to you, misinterpreted what you said. You took no responsibility for your personal attack (thus any apology is meaningless). Please accept some personal responsibility for your behavior.

Here's a suggestion. It seems that whenever you don't like what someone has to say, you make a personal attack (like the "good luck with your anger management" line). Why not stick to the subject at hand, discuss ideas, and argue the issue? If you aren't capable of doing so, please take your thinly-veiled nastiness elsewhere.

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: BoSoxRudy ]

Now boys, let's play nice.

Found thi site with info on Billy Bean. Says he runs a restaurant in Miami w/ his partner.

Another site mentions that he had been married from age 24 to 27.

Another article.

Personally, I don't agree with his stance on gays in baseball. However, he's entitled to his opinion and, having lived the life of a pro baseball player, knows more than any of us. That said, I don't know what kind of gay role model he is when he's trying to keep us in the closet.

Bean certainly is an unusual personality, even for a gay man - not aiming for silly pop psychology, but a couple of andectotal things are gleaned from general reading:

He seems to see his sexuality exclusively in the context of a one-on-one relationship (even noting the het marriage). Not that that is bad in any way, but it could affect his "world-view", especially when expounding about the percieved activities of others...

He seems more than a bit paranoid (the ban on the boyfriend going to the stadium being just one example)...

Again he is who he is, and I certainly wish him happiness and fulfillment, but I think I can see the point of those who would not have him unwillingly made into a symbol of what he clearly is not, and I can also understand the frustration of those who chafe at the fact that the he is often the ONLY person the mainstream press goes to for reactions, quotes etc.

Also (in a correction to a correction), Bean's future partner Mr. Veiga was the co-creator of the restaurnt that started the Cubo-Fusion trend, the original Yuca in Moral Stables. Veiga, his business partner and chef Douglas Rodriguez created the craze which Rodriguez later took to NYC and Washington (Patria). Bean's partner and other investors, after moving Yuca to Miami Beach, opened a second "serious Mexican cuisine" restaurant, Mayya, which is as successful as the first. The preperations to open this second restaurant are mentioned in the articles.

[ August 09, 2002: Message edited by: Wurm ]

BoSox - you know, half the time you seem like a real sweetie, the other half you're just full of it...read the posts, including yours, and think before you write such long winded, nonsensical posts...you're not in charge here and more often than not you're simply the pot calling the kettle black...

ummmmm, can we say personal????

Why don't you two buy a couple of plane tickets, meet somewhere and duke it out. Then the makeup sex would be wonderful, you know it would be.

Just don't do it in front of us.

Let's keep the personal out this, please Bryan and BoSox. This is an interesting topic that's getting bogged down.

Hey bryan d., don't worry about my anger management. You just work on that passive aggressive attitude of yours. Bean is just trying to give his take on what it might be like. He's not the poster boy for pro athletes coming out and he didn't try to make himself out to be. Does every celebrity who comes out have to be wrapped in the rainbow flag? No one is a gay role model. People, famous or not are individuals first. Ridiculing Bean's playing skills is stupid. The guy had a few homeruns in his MLB career. Can anyone on this site say that? Hell, People who rag a pro athletes abilities are either jealous or work the drive thru at Burger King.

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: budge ]

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: budge ]

I must disagree with Budge's comments. Bean has, by his actions, gone out of his way to make himself the gay athlete poster boy. From being on many panel discussions, being interviewed on ESPN, Jim Rome and others, writing a book, and now being on Arliss, Bean has clearly positioned himself as "the authority."

And what he has to say sucks. Hell, you've got straight guys who are saying more positive things about gay guys in pro sports than Billy Bean. Bean seems to me to be haunted by the notion that maybe it WAS okay for him to come out while active; haunted by the memory that, instead of attending his lover's funeral, he played a baseball game.

He seems to me to be pretty weak in character. He didn't come out of the closet - he was pushed out by a reporter in Miami. Now, he's soaking it for as much as he can.

Good for him.

Bad for the rest of us.

Jim and I were talking the other night about this. You know, if we were team owners, we wouldn't hire Bean either. Any gay guy that tries to keep other guys in the closet is a pretty weak person in my book.

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: Cyd at Outsports ]

I agree - Billy Bean has made a definite point of sharing his "stay in the closet" attitude as often as possible. It's boring, it's fear-based, and it utterly lacks balls. There's probably at least a couple of professional athletes who do have the guts to stand up and share who they are...sure, it might make sense to wait until their careers are over or near the end, but, some people are strong enough to withstand the media onslaught and understand that they're fighting for a bigger cause. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

As for you, Mr. Budge, thanks for sharing.

Cyd, Sorry you guys aren't team owners, you haven't played pro ball and you have a double standard. You give Ump a lot of latitude, yet, you say Bean is weak. You can kick me off of this site for saying that but I get a little twisted when there seems to be this gay standard of how a celebrity, who is gay, should conduct their lives. Bean had one opinion and it didn't fit with the expectations of those us who lead an insulated lifestyle. The guy played pro ball, a lot of us in this discussion haven't. Those straight guys giving positive responses are probably in the minority or some don't want the Rocker affect to happen. Dave Kopay has done the same thing and no one has brought him in to this to say he is weak or he is a bad example of a gay role model. The athletes who are out right now may have differing opinions from sport to sport. I think Bean is right for the most part, only because of his proximity and his experience with MLB. If he's schmoozing for a job in the MLB, it's because he probably does know the owners attitude better than the two of you.


Back at ya, Bryan

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: budge ]

Why the attacks on Billy Bean? I don't agree with his position, either, but the fact is he's entitled to hold and articulate whatever opinion he wants on the topic. The problem is his opinion differs from the self-appointed guardians of thought in the gay community, who suffer from the same intolerance of differences that our straight brethren suffer from. Billy Bean is being honest about his feelings, and isn't that what being gay is all about?

[quote] You can kick me off of this site for saying that ...

---

Budge, don't be silly. I'll only kick you off if you say nasty things about Peyton Manning.

Munson Man, people are expressing their opinions about Bean, who is thrusting himself in the public eye; this is fair criticism of an important issue. He is not above reproach and it's not like someone put a gun to his head to force him to appear on Arli$$.

My biggest problem with Bean is that he is so absolute on what would happen to an openly gay player. 1. Bean was not open so he really doesn't know ultimately. 2. Any player coming out (we're not talking about outing anyone against their will) will have fully considered the ramifications; given the latter why can't Bean say he'd be supportive even though he thinks it might not be a wise move? My guess is that if Bean was black in 1947 he'd have encouraged Jackie Robinson to stay in the Negro League because of course we know baseball isn't ready for blacks.

Thank you, Jim, that was exactly the comparison I wanted to say, but was tiptoeing around.

Bean isn't a celebrity who is gay. He's a gay celebrity. Or more accurately a famous gay guy. He has fame because he's gay, not because of his baseball prowess. And he continally uses that stature to make sure that there is no change in the status quo.

"The problem is his opinion differs from the self-appointed guardians of thought in the gay community."

That is such a load of crap. It's not that Bean differs in thought, it's that he keeps insisting that being gay is a source of self-loathing and isolation. He's recycling the same tired tripe that will continues to dredge up more shame. Any younger gay player is going to hear Bean and think "Well, he couldn't come out and he keeps saying I shouldn't either, so I won't."

With people like Billy Bean, nothing is ever going to change for the better.

I LOVE Billy Bean .. But I do think that things are rapidly changing for the better everywhere for gay acceptance- and in a short time it will NOT be so much of a problem in MLB. May be he could adress that - Its gonna be pretty soon - I think. Its gotta slip out somehow that SOMEONE in MLB (name included) is gay.

[ July 24, 2002: Message edited by: copman ]