Ryan Quinn has written a terrific article on the state of gay athletes coming out on campus.

Excellent article Ryan!! Thank you

Excellent article.

Interesting how the article seems to suggest that the greatest fear that prevents individuals from coming out is the negative influence on the ability of the gay athlete to perform due to a lose of team support and cohesion.

That is basically the same arguement used to support "Don't ask, don't tell" as a policy for the military. Changing DADT will help all of us.

In the article Ryan writes: "In the past two years I’ve spoken with and received e-mails from almost 36 gay athletes who want to come out but who first want to bond with other gay athletes and share their experiences." So I'm wondering if someone can work to arrange meetings between these athletes?

Great article, thanks.

Reading the article took me back 20 years when I was playing Division 1 college basketball, and had my first lesbian relationship with a teammate, which lasted 3 years. Man, when I think the about struggles we went through to hide our relationship, it would have been such a relief to have had the internet, and/or a gay/lesbian student group on campus to deal with the pressure of hiding your sexual orientation.

I can't even begin to fanthom how our coaches and teammates (and the university for that matter) would have dealt with our relationship had they found out about us. Being in the closet and hiding that relationship for 3 years for fear of being rejected by our teammates was really the HARDEST time in my life. I always felt that I would lose my scholarship if my secret life became exposed so unfortunately, I became somewhat promiscuous with guys on campus to project and hopefully convince others (and probably myself at the time) that I was straight.

Fortunately for me, nine years later, I would meet my current partner and come to terms with and accept my sexual orientation, and thus would begin my process of coming out. For my teammate, who went on to coach in the college ranks, and is still single, discussing our relationship way back when is a mute issue. It's like it never really happened...

Anyhow, sorry for getting so long-winded, I really just wanted to say that I appreciated the article and knowing that some younger gay/lesbian athletes these days have more options than remaining in the closet and alone during this struggle.

That about hits the nail on the head.

Its funny, while in College, I was president of my student body, despite being a bit of an anathema to most of the people at my school.I drove a sports car, had long red hair, both my ears pierced, and never had any problems complaining loudly, about anything and everything LOL. I was an athlete in High School and somewhat in college, but got very heavily involved in student politics. I was less interested in being an athlete in college, than I was on celebrating the fact that I turned 21 my second semester at my last school.

While hardly a virgin, I truly had yet come to grips with what I wanted, despite coming to the realisation, that yes, I was not really bisexual, I could perform the act, but really just wanted to settle for a man. In the conservative and somewhat repressive area of North Western Pennsylvania where I went to college, it was NOT an area which allowed for sexual freedom.

There were however 2 incidents which really pretty much sealed my fate. There was an incredibly handsome man on our football team,( in western Pa it is amazing how goodlooking some of the people are male or female). I had developed a bit of a crush on him, he had a GF but always usd to make direct eye contact with me. Eventually I got to know him, social butterfly that I was and still am, he wound up living with another football team member that was one of my best friends. One night after staying too late at a party, it was me and him standing at a keg, and he put his arms around me and planted one right one me.

My reaction?

"hey man you going over to the Loomis? We better get going if we wanna get there, and thanks man I like you too."

Personally, now in my 30's, I can't believe how stupid I was. But being closeted to such a degree that I was ruining my life at this point, I just blew it off. I still wonder what would have happened if I had just gone up to his room to look at his computer like he had asked when I first got there, or if I had just kissed him back.

So in the mid to early 90's, I finally got the first kiss I wanted , and actually from the man I wanted, yet somehow I still screwed it up. Joe if ya read this, and remember the incident, and are still single drop me a line LOL.

My second kiss went a bit better, it was with a guy from the wrestling team I had known for a few years. it was very nice, I did kiss him back, but he was just curious what it would be like to kiss a guy.

I knew of 2 closeted football players, a closeted basketball player, and 2 wrestlers that were obviously more than roommates. there was a lot of rumors at my school, but very little actual interaction. I think that was the pervasive racism, sexism, homophobia, anti semitism, and overall fear of anyone that was different that hangs like a pall over many rural areas. Plunk a University down in the mix, and look out. I know things are quite a bit different now, but it is still not an environment that will allow acceptance for a gay athlete.

Kudos to all of these men and women at snaller schools that stand up and say this is who I am. Enjoy your team for what they are, your brethren in the arena, your friends and supporters off the field, and hopefully they will be an inportant part of your life. I wasn't strong enough to be like you. I wish I had been. I was terribly afraid at that point.

I like to think if I had been braver, my friends would have stayed around, but, honestly I don't think they would have. There are several that I did tell just before graduation, and the all said they had figured that one out a long time ago, and didn't care. But hell I haven't seen any of my friends from college in almost ten years. At this point in my life I really don't care. I am going back to Clarion as myself in the fall for our Autumn Leaf Festival for the first time. I just wish I could have been myself a little bit more while I was a student there. Congrats to everyone that has done it, and to those that can't or won't I empathise.

I'm glad to hear that you are going back to Clarion as YOURSELF this time around! Good for you, and good luck!

You know, it's funny but having been out of college since 1986, I sometimes forget how hard it was to be in the closet while I was a student but when I reflect back to that time, and then read about the struggles my younger brothers and sisters still face, I can almost still feel that FEAR. I guess for all of us at one time or another, we had or presently live with that fear, whether we are athletes or not. As much as the world changes, the more it seems to stay the same for gays and lesbians. The struggle goes on...

I was thrilled to see that my alma mater, Williams, has both an out athlete and an out coach. When I was there in the late 80s, despite a pretty active gay&lesbian organization on campus, there was a tremendous amount of homophobia and stereotyping. It was one of the reasons I was highly closeted, although I did manage to hang out at all the keg parties that the football and rugby teams patronized - the eye candy was all I had.

Great story as usual Shorejim. Not surprising that western PA is a hotbed of closeted homos given that the state elected a guy like Rick (May He Lose The Next Election) Santorum.

Keep the faith Di...and keep us posted.

i just stumbled upon this site and it is truly amazing and inspirational. this particular topic has really touched home - especially shorejim's posting.

i was a very high profile college and post college swimmer who no one suspected was harboring his own sexual confusion. sports sort of occupied my life and didnt leave me a lot of time to consider other options rather than those expected of me by my sport, my coaches and my teammates. i opted to date women exclusivly until i retired competively. i suppose the comment made about "fear" really hit home. i too always pushed aside any feeling i had towards other men as simply part of the camaraderie of sports. when i think back to all those meets where guys were strutting around in their speedos and it never obviously occurred to me that something more was at play - at least on a conscious level. like one person commented, i too had all this eye candy around me but no personal satisfaction.

its ironic that there were so many obvious opportunities and moments presented to me if i had honestly see it for what it was vs. what i passed it off as being. i can recall at least three or four incidents at national meets and international competitions where i completely glossed over obvious signals and advances. like shorejim, i passed them off as "buddy moments" and nothing ever came of them. i was so deeply closeted and wonder too what would have happened had i just gone along with the moment and let the moment just take its course. i was terribly afraid of dealing with the person inside of me. i truly admire those young college athletes with the courage, conviction and self-worth to be the person they are. i too congratulate you and am ferverently rooting for each of you.

its funny i am only in later 20s now but it seems so much has changed since my time in sports. i have such admiration for those out of the closet athletes since they are doing such a service to those young athletes coming after them who feel that they must be the only one feeling what they are feeling. you are providing the next generation of athletes with role models that someone like myself was never able to do. in retrospect, i guess that is my biggest regret from my time in sports. i wish i had left that as a legacy vs. time records and medals.

anyway, on a self-indulgent note. my life did change post sports for the better. i left behind the expectations of others - as well as moving 3000 miles away to begin graduate professional school if i may be so vague. living in nyc has a way of making you seem both more anonymous in a big city yet more connected to other men who have shared similar experiences. here i met another very high profile former college wrestler who struggled with every single issue i had encountered. fortunately we found one another - far away from the unacceptance of our universities - had they truly known who both of us really were as a college athletes vs. what they propped us up to be -although we both willingly went along.

i dont know if i am ready to go back to my pac 10 school nor he to his big 10 school just yet and be "ourselves" but perhaps in due time; i do think its a possibility. we both now realize that several of our fellow college athletes counterparts, at our schools, were also gay , but, like us, were fearful of dealing with the reality of who we were.

just writing this brings big time tears to my eyes. as gay athletes we have so many more struggles to overcome than our hetrosexual counterparts. i am glad however that the "closet" is not the only option for today's gay student athletes. i applaud each one of you who takes that big step , that, to us, seemed so unfathomable just some 6 to 8 years ago.

Great post, Bryant. There are so many athletes on this board and who read Outsports, it is amazing how many guys and gals have felt the same way you did. Of course most of us were not in Div. I, high-profile situations, but I think it safe to say that most gays and lesbians who played sports at any level felt the pressure and prejudice of being gay in their chosen sport. I am glad you stumbled here, now you just need to stay a while.

I know it is still new, but I would incourage you to participate in the next Gay Games or a gay swimming competition, and your partner in a gay wrestling competition. There you will meet so many others that have your interest and love of the sport, people just like you. It is one of the best feelings in the world to march in the opening ceremony of the gay games, and feel the warmth of crowds of people celebrating not just sports, and not just gay life, but the combination of the two. FYI, the next Gay Games is in Chicago in 2006, or if you would rather the Outgames in Montreal the same year. I am partial to the Gay Games but you need to go to one or the other, it will be one of the experiences of a lifetime.

Bryant, thanks for sharing your story and struggle as a gay athlete! I am glad that you are finding peace and becoming more comfortable in your sexual orientation, and most of all, I am glad that you have found love!

[ March 30, 2005, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: Di ]

Hey All,

Thanks for sharing your stories here. Only a few athletes could be featured in the article, but it's clear from your postings that there are glbt athletes, both out and closted, at all levels of sport and in all parts of the country.

Your comments make a difference. Aside from the impact one can have just by being out, I think discussions like these are the best way to chip away at homophobia in sport. It's impossible to quantify this, but it helps. Sometimes I wonder who it helps more: those of us who are able to share our thoughts/experiences, or those who aren't ready yet but who can have this diverse range of posts to read and learn from? Both, I guess. Keep talking.

Rings a bell for many of us, even those of us who were less profile.

One consolation (or maybe not) is that if you had responded to some of those guys you thought were coming on to you, even if their interest was what you thought it was, they might well have run for the hills in immediate denial.

A lot of men like to "tease" and play around with the notion that they would like to try something then chicken out.

Congratulations on finding a real comrade-in-arms. From what I've seen on here in the past, that is truly rare.

On the whole, your instincts seem to have served you well. Hope that continues.

When I was in high school, one of my best friends was a senior and I was a freshman. I was a bit advanced for my age I guess, coz most people assumed I was older. I started shaving in 6th grade. Anyway.. I played basketball and he wanted me to play baseball. I had no interest but I had a crush on him, so I did. I end up playing all 4 years, but when I was a senior, he was a senior in college and was doing some student teaching. We made out one nite after a game and it was to this day the hottest make out sesion I had ever had.
I see him occassionally... with his wife. Its kinda weird coz I look at her and im thinking.. my tongue has been down your man's mouth.

Bryant: I just read your post here and want to wish you the best in pursuing your life there in the city. You've found the best place there is to do that, for my money. No doubt you know this, but there are some terrific guys out there who have traveled much the same path as you -- swimmers of the highest caliber. I don't know if you're still swimming (if so have you found a good place to do so in the city?), but there are some terrific masters programs available -- gay teams (Team Aquatics NY, I think, is one) as well as straight/totally gay friendly ones. I don't know about adult wrestling programs, but I know there are some out there -- and surely there are posters here who can help you. Congrats and best wishes. PS Have you seen this thread yet: swimming forum?

hey jockpop - thanks for the kind note and reference. this site has indeed been eyeopening. my other half and i are just amazed that a site like this was around.

i have to be honest, though, both of us are kind of not out, just yet, to most of those who know us. its a real process for us both. we both feel like we had a lot of recognition to deal with as well as expectations of those around us. all i can say is that i am glad we are in this together since we at least have one another to go thru this journey with. it's tough though. i am a little more at ease than he is right now, but in truth, we are both a ways off from truly being gay athletes. fortunately, therapy is one step in that direction. i guess we need time. but it is great to know that there is a forum like this of others who have taken that journey.

yes we both are involved in our sports here in nyc - i still swim several times a week - its just in my blood i guess!

anyway, i think we were both amazed at this site when we both poked around on it over the weekend - of course only i am a member - he is more an observer for now. but gee, its great to know you are not alone.

be well
bryant

Bryant: You may well have already seen this, but in case not, you might want (when you have time b/c it's loooonnngggg) to check out this thread as well: Closeted coach seeks advice

It's about a former college student athlete who's now coaching -- about your age -- and his coming out process. There's a good bit of very instructive feedback in the thread. It surely can be a tough process, but I can tell you that owning it first, and then making those initial steps to own it in relationship with others are the healthiest things I ever did for myself in my life. I can also tell you that NYC -- and all its resources -- were extremely helpful along the way. Of course having a partner is the best -- cherish it : ) and enjoy it!

jockpop -

tremendous thanks for that link. i posted a response there. it took me two days to read thru it but it was eyeopening and touched me on many different levels.

its just so amazing that there are so many other guys who are going thru and have gone thru the experience of coming to grip with one's sexual identity. truly amazing because i didnt think a network like this existed.

lastly, your last comment about having a partner to go thru the experience with really hit home after reading thru the link you posted. i never really took inventory of what it would have been like going thru this ( or maybe i would have postponed the process further) solo. i really do have a lot to be grateful for; thanks for pointing out to me that i shouldnt take the obvious for granted.

Wonder if there is a possibility of Cyd and Jim putting a permanent link to that thread on the home page of Outsports. There must be a lot of guys who would benefit from reading some part of that thread. I know a lot of it touched me as well. Also meeting Frustrated_Coach was very rewarding.

Just wanted to offer my congrats to the Cal gymnast who took the Men's Collegiate Gymnastics floor exercise title, as told in the excellent story written by Cyd. Way to go, you smart, handsome Golden Bear!

so many thoughts, emotions, what if's go through my mind when I read these posts and the experiences that other gay athletes are going through or have gone through. having been a college athlete in the sport of men's volleyball, I can relate so much with the everyone here. I personally didn't come out until 28, I'm now 37. but actually used my sport as a distraction, for lack of a better word, from my sexuality. not only did I play in college, but got involved in coaching the sport as well, which I still continue to do.

for me growing playing what I think a lot of people felt is predominantly a female sport, the hypermasculinity around me was truly amazing. I know there were other gay men in the program, but not ones that were major contributors/starters for our team. so being one who was a captain and starter, those around me who I felt looked to me as an equal, were the most homophobic, narrow minded group of individuals I've ever played ball with or associated with. plus the fact that the total enrollment of our college was 1000 students and everyone knew everyone, I felt like coming out was in no way shape or form an option for me. I knew I was gay, without a doubt, I have since I can remember, but I felt like I would have been so ostricized by this group of midwestern farm boys that I was playing ball with that I wouldn't risk it. Volleyball truly was/is my passion and I wasn't willing to jeopardize my love for my sexuality.

Looking back on it now, I do wish I had done something much earlier and come to grips with it sooner. since coming out I've had several of my teammates come out to me and said they tried to tell me all through college, but I was just so alloof (sp) to it all that they assumed I was just asexual. but I do know even without them being out to anyone, how they were treated differently and I didn't want that.

now i am completely happy and out to most everyone that knows me, and don't care if someone finds out or knows. I guess we all have our own path and our own time in doing so. I too, just wish I had an avenue like this when dealing with it to help me out and understand that I wasn't alone. I don't know that I would have come out to the group of guys I played with in college, but would have expediated my coming out for sure.

good luck to all of those of you who are going through, and know that as bleak as it may look at times, it really isn't ever going to be a bad thing to be true to yourself, and that's the most important part. I've been fortunate to not have any negative repercussions from friends or family, which makes me wish I'd have done something much earlier.

amazing how roles models in situations like this can be a truly astounding thing. I wish I'd have had some when I was in college.

Best Wishes to you all.

Just a note that the Chronicle of Higher Education's terrific 2002 article, The Loneliest Athletes, is still online, and still worth a read.

Vbcoach - thanks for sharing your story! I can relate to a lot of what you shared, and agree that we all have our own path and time to come out. I'm glad you have had no negative repercussions from friends or family after coming out - the same is true for me. We are the fortunate ones, as we know that in this day and age, it's still not 100% safe to be open about our sexuality.

And even though we had no openly gay/lesbian role models or safe organizations during our college days, (i'm near your age at 41) we at least now have the opportunity as OUT adults to support our younger brothers and sisters, especially those still in the closet.

All the best..

Hey VB Coach: Welcome and thanks for posting. Ryan, who wrote the story that led this thread, is an accomplished cross-country skier and is writing our Winter Olympics preview that will be posted soon.

Hi everyone I just stumbled on to this board and this is my first post. Im 23 and just completed playing football at Cumberland University and yea im gay. I wish i had known about this sooner so at least i could have shared my moments with others that have went though some of the thing i went though. I just recently came completely out to everyone both High School teammates and College teammates For the most part they have all stood by me. I was so terrified to allow any of my teammates to know. Well to be honest my best friend and former college roommate on the team found out our freshmen year completely by accident though but he was really cool about it. For the most part my teammates had no problem with it in fact only one of them freaked out about it.

Welcome to the board.

Congrats on your acceptance. Isn't it great when that happens?

Welcome CUDAWG! I am so glad that you found us here. I was happy to hear that you were accepted by your teammates! I wish you the best and hope to see more posts from you. ( when your school work is finished for the night, of course).

Re-reading the posts here reminds me how much I love this thread. Hope it keeps getting boosted by newcomers like CUDawg30.

Has anyone heard from our friend 'collegewrestler' ? I wonder how he is doing! He always had some interesting posts!

Last I heard was what he posted here, that he came out to more friends and was working toward happiness. It would be nice to hear from him if he's around, then again I took no news to be good news as he's probably out living life instead of online being stressed about life. Happy New Year!

I hope you are right! I wish him the best!

I just joined this site and it's helped me a lot in terms of dealing with my sexuality. It made me feel like less of an outcast since there are so many just like me. I read these posts and it's funny because I just graduated in May from my tiny midwest university and I never had the courage to come out because I was terrified of what could happen. But I came to grips with being gay during my final semester and I acted the way I felt like acting and not how I was supposed to. My teammates still loved me... maybe even more. So, even though I never came out while at school, I get the feeling that anyone who truly knew me wouldn't have had a problem. We'll see. I still have the chance to let my team know.

Still makes me nervous though...

Welcome to the board Max! Good luck with your former teammates!