I'm a 25 yr. old athlete who has had his ups and downs. About a year ago, October 29th 2003, I took sixty sleeping pills and ended up at Lincoln Park Hospital in Chicago, Illinois for three days and another three days in a mental hospital. The stigma of what I tried to do still stays with me. Most family and friends cannot understand that I just wanted the pain to stop. I tried drowning the pain in alcohol for a better part of my teenage years and adult life. I read an article about Esera Tualo and it really hit me hard. I am not writing this to complain or anything--I just need and want to share so that some other kid doesn't go through with what I did. I have been called chink, faggot, and everything else in-between. I love basketball. I play for a gay league called WCAA in Chicago. Being a 6'2" Vietnamese guy with a 34" vertical and dunking on farm boys from Wisconsin does not get you liked very much. At the time, I was extremely depressed and stressed about broken relationships, work, and school. Since that time, I have learned that there are resources out there to help. I do not know if others have had similar experiences, but please share. I just hope some kid reads this and does not make the same mistake that I did.

Tino Luu

This story hits very close to home for me. As a teenager, I must admit first off that this story is exactly what I fear. I fear that if I come out to my soccer team ever, I will be ridiculed and harassed to the point where I will want to commit suicide.

The part of the story that really hits me though is that you took 60 sleeping pills like that. My boyfriend actually tried to commit suicide in a similar way, by taking tons of Tylenol. Fortunately, he just got very sick, and he is OK now.

I appreciate your post- I hope everything is going well for you now.

[ December 19, 2004, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: m1 ]

Not by the Wisconsin farm boys, anyway. wink

Welcome to the board, and thanks for sharing your story.

Hey Tluu, thanks for sharing your story.

Things may be tough for you, and neither I nor anyone can promise that they'll get better, but if you can, do think about the idea that you may be here for a purpose. Also consider that the more that you are able to accept yourself, which I admit is not easy for so many of us, to see the beauty you bring to the world, you'll be able to enjoy who you are, and see that have many years ahead of you to share your life, your interests, your view of the world, with others out there, as you're doing here.

Take care of yourself, keep writing, and thanks again for sharing.

Great Story Tluu,

As a worker in the mental health care field (I'm a psych. nurse in Canada) I can tell you that you are not alone in what you are feeling and tried to do. I think, in the end, it really becomes about you. What you want to accomplish in life and how you want to go about it. It sounds like you have found a great forum to be who you are, and not feel guilty because of who you are. I would hazard a bet that almost every gay person has experienced what you have in one way or another. I know I have. Using our past experiences, good or bad, helps us in becoming who we are. I am a full believer in not regretting my mistakes, but learning from them. It sounds like you have accomplished that as well.

Hope I am of some help

wow. similar suicide attempt here nearly 5 years ago. took a couple bottles of pills, deciding to sleep my way into the next life...

also many differences. my episode was mid-life, mid-hetero-marriage, mid-career.

several thoughts now as i reflect on those dark days.

1. if i'd had any type supportive social network -- friends, family, peer group, this might all have been avoided. wish i'd talked more/tho't more/read more about coming out before actually doing it...

2. the warning signs of depression were there. i just didn't recognize them. after my hospitalization i got help (didn't really have much choice in the matter...). medication straightened out my head. THERE SHOULD BE FEAR OF CHEMICAL ASSISTANCE DURING A PERIOD OF EMOTIONAL, MENTAL, AND PHYSICAL CRISIS. DAMN ANYONE TO HELL WHO ATTACHES A STIGMA TO TAKING MEDS. counseling helped me sort out what i wanted/needed to survive. the meds helped me make better decisions.

3. the sun continues to shine. i'm not the same person i was 5 years ago. i'm new and improved. life is incredibly rich. no longer on meds, no longer in counseling, no longer reluctant to get help if i need it.

the horrible truth is that many people choose suicide as their remedy for pain. however, alternatives are available.

thanks tluu for sharing your story in hopes of helping someone else who needs to hear your voice.

eric

Thank you Metromathis, Joe in Philly, fatomas, Jammon90, and EricNC for your thoughts. I appreciate them like I do so many things in life now.

Glad you're still with us and posting.

When I was on the high school track team--lo, the many years ago--instead of coming out to the team as an entity, I first told a couple of other runners whom I considered my friends, as well as my teammates. I figured that later, when I told the rest of the team, those two would already have gotten over the shock/surprise and been on my side. There were still some on the team who stopped talking to me and some others who ridiculed, but having those two in my corner made the whole thing a bit better.

~Adam


[Post modified for quote format. - Outsports moderator]

[ December 19, 2004, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: m1 ]

A friend's partner took a bunch of Tylenol and died of liver failure (although he was 50ish and also drank heavily most of his life). My mom was on heavy Tylenol for her arthritis last year and had liver trouble but has recovered. So be careful with that or any other medicine, prescription or not.

Back on topic ... I second all the supportive comments. Hang in there, tluu.

Thank you all for your response. I have read and re-read all of your thoughts. Thank you for them. My current situation is that about five doctors would like to diagnose me as bi-polar and put me on their Meds. My brother Minh Luu is a doctor at Rush and he warns be about getting prescribed for everything. I just don't know.

Glad that you have joined the board, tluu. As you are discovering, there are plenty of resources and plenty of people out there to support you. Getting out and competing in a gay basketball league (as you are) is a good way to feel alive and be a part of a group. There are a number of Asian-American/Canadians here on the board (myself included), so.... welcome!

THank you so much for sharing this story. It is so important for younger people especially to realize the hazards of coming out, though the hazards, in the long run are worth it...I think, in most cases and situations. I was knocked unconscious in my own home and robbed about a year and a half ago, left for dead. What bothered me was that the perpetrator had left a note: "Die Faggot." I, for the first time in my life, became suicidal. I was in a relationship, but got no support from my lover, so I reached out to my friends and family. I got help and hopefully on the road to recovery, with medications.

I've worked in the mental health field for years and thought I would never feel suicidal, no, never ME. But it happened, and i"m glad I'm still here today, even though some days are still rough. The knock on the head, literally, was just a catalyst for opening different doors that got me out of an emotionally abusive relationship and back into the arms of my friends, old and new, who continue to support me. I think it suicidal ideation in most instances comes from self-loathing. It did in mine. WE must learn to love ourselves first, to accept ourselves for who we are; until then, how can we ever expect others to do the same.

I'm glad that you are still with us and enjoying your life. Your story will and has touched many and i think will make everyone aware of the anger and resentment that we still hold deep down inside of ourselves for being who we are. People will argue, but I think most will admit that the anger of others judging us and calling us names still hurts, no matter how long it goes on.

So, welcome aboard, good luck with the basketball team, and stick around. There are so many other ways waiting on us to get struck down, we don't need to help things along any. LOve yourself, accept yourself, and above all find people your life that you can talk to and trust and who love you for who you are, even sometimes when you find it impossible to do so yourself. This is my two cents worth anyway.

In another thread, tluu posted

I just had an epiphany. I did not have it at the symphony either. Dying is too easy--living is the hard part. How can we live to make someone else smile? I love Edvard Munch THE SCREAM. I scream on the inside and smile on the outside. Why should I bring my pain and burdens and displace it to someone else?

I just spoke with my brother Minh Luu. He's a conservative Christian. I dunno. He a resident for surgery at Rush and... Family sucks. Sometimes. I've learned that. Some people suck--not all people. Sometimes, not all the time. If you haven't guessed already, I am trying to reconcile with my family. Any thoughts?

[ December 19, 2004, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: m1 ]

That's so true. Life isn't easy. And people sometimes aren't the best.

My thought is that you should be available if family members want to reconcile with you, but if they don't want to be part of your life then don't dwell on them. Dwell on those people, family or friends, who DO want to be part of your life on your terms.

[ January 07, 2005, 08:44 PM: Message edited by: hoosierhoopsaddict ]

Okay, wait! What is going on? Another coach in this situation? Please, see all the wonderful advice in the thread about the frustrated coach. Please read all 15 or 16 pages, and know that there is support for you out there.

this is so extraordinary-that there is such fear about being out and gay and an athlete. Hoosieraddict, please read that thread.

Okay, wait again--I swear the above post was originally posted as from hoosiersaddicts. or whatever his name is. now it's bballman. what;s going on?

[ January 07, 2005, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: shore ]

I did and I also participated in the discussion. Sorry I dont fit your mold of how I am supposed to approach my life. Just read the advice and follow it, gee I never knew it was that easy.


just forget it, thanks for nothing


[Personal comment deleted. - Outsports moderator]

[ January 07, 2005, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: m1 ]

BBallman

I hope you're doing alright tonight. No matter what happens, death is not better than being outed. It might be scary and hellish for awhile, but life goes on. You've already survived a few days, so just take it a day at a time. No matter how well your lie works about the ad, I'd strongly urge you to see a counselor to deal with this. Also, as shore said, re-read Frustrated_Coach's thread. There's a lot of good advice, as well as some good lessons to be learned from what he's gone through. I know this seems really huge right now, but don't let it become an all-consuming issue. Take the weekend off and get away if you can - might be tough in the midst of basketball season, but do it if you're able to.

Is bballman and hoosierhoopsaddict the same person? Or is the board just swithching things/idnetities around?

Yeah, I changed my name then I changed it back, then I deleted the post entirely.

Look, I need to talk to someone. I'm sorry but telling me to go read "advice" written to somebody else was poor. I've read that thread a million times. It is a different situation. Let me state this more clear. He wanted to be out to the people HE told, indicating a mental readiness. I on the other hand DO NOT WANT TO BE OUT. I am not ready. I was outed last week by a personal ad with my pic being passed around my freakin school. Imagine yourself in that situation. I lied a lot, and I mean ALOT to cover it up. I hate myself for lying, but I had to to stay sane. I know I need to talk to a counselor or something. There arent any ads in the phone book for couselors for gay men who are 40 and in the closet who just got outed against thier will and as a total surprise. What I want is to get through the next week intact. Advise me if you want, but I need to talk to somebody. OK logically, I understand I shouldnt feel ashamed of being gay, I should be "out and proud". so Ill close my eyes and count to ten and change. It didnt work. I still feel ashamed. Yes Im hung up on the whole gays in sports thing, and how Im percieved by people. this is where Im at, Im sorry Im not where I should be. this is a nightmare to me. There are resources all over for gay teens, and none for me. Gay adult stuff is just like dating and hookups, no substance, no emotional support at all. I wanted to just make it go away the other night, but I thought of my mom and sucked it up. It has got better, I think my lie worked with most people, but there are still some people lookin at me funny. Is this how I should feel, NO, but who cares. my goal is to keep being here, not be perfect. If anyone really cares and doesnt just want to pontificate from the big gay mountain in New freakin York, get in touch please. I need a friend to talk to and to understand me right now, I have no one at all who I can be like "real" to. Yeah I know Im messed up and how I think and where Im at dont jive with how a lot of big time posters feel, so somebody lurking read this OK and get to yahoo nyebooe72, there's gotta be somebody who feels what I feel. I need to speak with people who are in my boat if there are any or if anybodys been in a similar thing.

[ January 08, 2005, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: hoosierhoopsaddict ]

hoosierhoops, there is help out there, both formal and informal. There are counsellors and therapists who specialize in gay people (and who probably are gay people), but you might even want to start out with just a general cousellor/psychotherapist. I know that sometimes when you're not out, just the notion of going into a gay bar, or picking up a gay magazine at a newstand, or even walking in the gay part of town, can be anxiety-provoking. Sometimes being around gay men who may seem stereotypically gay may make you feel uncomfortable, a Pride parade may make you cringe. That's OK to feel those things. You have to be honest with your feelings first, and get them all out. That's why you need to talk to someone. Because saying these things, and getting your feelings out are all important.

There's not going to be a cheap and easy solution. This problem is not going to go away overnight, and you have to acknowledge that, too. It's going to take some work, but you're going to have to suck it up, as you say. Think of those people in S.E. Asia who lost their family, their friends, their homes and face a very uncertain future. If they can face that, then you can face being outed. You're strong, and you can go on.

So talk to your friends, let them know that you are hurting. Try to reach out to new friends, or just spill your guts to willing bartender. You're not the only one, but it's still OK to rail against the world.

And once you've got that out of your system, you can move on and rebuild your life.

Hoosier, we have all felt like you feel right now. I got caught in a situation when I was much younger and I lied through my teeth to get out of it. I was mortified and felt like crap for weeks. Finally, I don't know where it came from, but I got the courage to tell one friend. She cried because she wanted to date me for a long time and I think it was her relief in knowing that was the reason why we hadn't. But, mustering the courage up to tell her took a six pack and a late night, but I slept better that night than I had in weeks. From there, it was a lot easier. Don't let anyone tell you where you should be on the road to gaydom. Everyone has his own pace at which they are ready to come out. I would suggest mightly that you get your closest friend and tell them that it wasn't a mistake and that you aren't ready to announce it to the world. That one person knowing the truth is going to help you out because you are really beating yourself up for someone finding that personal ad. We can talk to you all day but we aren't physically there with you and unfortunately, you are the only one that can make the decision where you go from here.

Anxiety can drive a person to do unmentionable things. Once you confront the cause of your anxiety, it will subside and you'll realize that it wasn't as big a deal as you thought. Hang in there but now is the time for you to rely on your friends...they're your friends for you and not who you sleep with.

[ January 08, 2005, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: Aubie in Bham ]

I'm sorry you were outed. Whoever discovered your personal ad and started passing it around your school is a prick, pure and simple. And if it was a male who found it (I hesitate to call him a man) it makes me wonder why he was looking at gay personals to begin with.

I found this link at gay.com -- you can actually speak to a therapist online. From their website:

I know you didn't want to hear people suggest that you re-read the Frustrated Coach thread, but they mainly did so because you had changed your screen name. If you hadn't done that, they might have realized that you participated in that thread. At any rate, try not to be angry at them since they just wanted to help. Had I seen your original post that you then deleted, I might have made the same suggestion.

hoosier, in your post you write you know you have to "talk to a counselor or something." Very wise and an indication you're already on the path to finding an outlet that could be benficial for you. It's important at this moment to take a deep breath and focus on where you are. You're not ready to be publicly out but you have admitted to yourself that you're gay--I'm sure you're aware lots of gay men never even do that, living a life of pure self-loathing--so it's clear you want to live a fuller (and ultimately, happier) life. Bravo. A good counselor--straight or gay doesn't matter--and a lot of work on your part can help you in that goal. As for the jackass who outed you, though I'm sure it felt like the end of the world, just chalk it up to there being no shortages of jackasses out there & move on, holding your head high. You gaven't changed one bit--activities you enjoyed before his actions are still activities you enjoy, your work remains your work and your friends and acquaintances are still your friends and acquanintances. And if someone no longer wants to be around you--what have you lost? A narrow-minded gossip-mongering bigot; big deal. Those people he told (the ones to whom you fet the need to lie) will have some other bit of gossip to chew on soon enough. Everyone has their own personal psychlodramas and no matter how much we think people focus on our lives, they're really far more interested in what's going on under their own roof. The only one you have to please is yourself--the road we're all on is best travelled at one's own pace but if you look around, you'll see we're all moving along it, as well, and will support you.

~Adam

Hang in there Hoosier. Nobody can fully understand what you are going through, because there is only one you, but we are all trying to empathize and support you in this. Some of us have had similar experiences, but your experiences are your experiences. Just know that there are people out there who are concerned--whether they personally know you or not. As for the ass**** who outed you, I think there is a special place in hell for him. He'll get what's coming to him one way or another--I've seen how Karma works. Just take it a day, hour, or even minute at a time if you have to.

Tino

To tluu - It's too bad that you had to endure the trauma of your attempt - It's basically adding fuel to the fire, but sometimes we all set up very high hurdles to jump over before we land. I'm really glad you're okay. I have just a couple of things to add and I want you to know that they come from a compassionate place and aren't directed just towards you.
When one is dealing with serious issues, all recreational alcohol/drugs/etc. should be strictly avoided. Why? Depression and suicidal urges are chemically related; our emotions affect our body chemistry. Drugs and alcohol always end up as depressants further complicating the real and existing issues, preventing us from facing them directly and with compassion. For example, a person's lonely, so they go out and get drunk. When they come home and wake up the next morning, they're still lonely (no matter who they've met) but now they're hungover as well! Not helpful.

The fact of the matter is that we're not alone. No one is having any problems here that someone hasn't had before. We think we're alone because depression creates isolation. This isolation tendency/belief is a main symptom of depression...it is a false belief. But, the only way to deal with this isolation is by reaching out to others one way or another. It takes humility and courage, and taking action is vital! Get on the phone, go to a support group, get on the web. By communication with others, we help ourselves. We also help ourselves by helping others. I direct this towards anyone out there struggling through their own identidy crisis.
I also believe it's important to seperate the crisis from the issue. bballs is obviously going through a very difficult crisis at his school which clearly needs some clever manuvering to deal with. The issue underneath this crisis though is creating a life situation where he has to be so deeply closeted and so fundamentally stressed in his day to day existence. It's no way to live. There has to be someone in the area to talk to even if only by phone. I wish bballs lots of luck and support.

When I was 20 yrs old, I had a little fling with a Resident Assistant in the dorms back in South Dakota State. "John" was my first sexual experience with ANYONE. During second semester, he freaked out about his sexuality & he outted me on campus. He told all of my friends that I am gay while, he, on the other hand, is straight.

So, yeah, I didn't have the luxury of coming out on my own terms. My friends were supportive yet confused. I didn't want to be out. I wasn't ready.

Dude, I can relate. I know how you are feeling.

Bryan

Thanks for mentioning what I failed to mention. Using alcohol and/or recreational drugs to cope is probably not a good idea. I definitely learned that the hard way. I was intoxicated when I tried to end it all. Thanks again for putting that out there.

tluu

tluu - i'm not surprised since alcohol and drugs are sooo often a factor in suicide attempts/they just distort what's already confusing and difficult...Thank God you survived and are brave enough and determined enough to grow and heal. No matter what happens with sports, with your friends and family, you must come to a place of total acceptance and support of yourself. This can take years! I'm 41, I know!(i was a working model/actor in my twenties and thought i was the ugliest guy in the world) But, there's a real peace that comes with time, and a self-acceptance that's very difficult to find when we're in our teens and twenties, and even in our thirties. Most importantly, you need to know that who you are and what you're doing is a beautiful thing - and it's just the way it is for now. Personally, the day I decided that I was on my side no matter what crazy shit was happening, was the day something clicked for good. Stuff is still hard, challenging, disappointing, etc., but I never desert myself now...EVER. Plus, life is full of so many fascinating surprises, especially for those willing to show up for it! Any way, sorry for the ramble but it's so important to come to terms with yourself...You're worth it, baby...

It has been a week since I was outed and things have settled down a lot. Unfortunately I am a very good liar, and I dont fit the stereotype that people have for gay men, so my thing is floating for now. It has been a big help to hear from people on here. I know some people at school have thier doubts about me, but that doesnt bother me like I thought it would. It just takes some getting used to.

The thing that bothers me is just the total overall unfairness of how we have to exist sometimes. I know some of you will say I dont HAVE to exist this way. My sexuality should be a non issue in this world, but it isnt and it just grinds away at my heart that Me and people like me have to face this crap our whole lives. I dont like being laughed at. In the sporting world, gays are laughed at, and seen as less than men. I know it's bullshit, but after a while, and at certain times Ive just about had enough and I want to crawl into a hole. Other times I want to take baseball bat beat the holy crap out of the next bigot who laughs at me by laughing at gay men. I know people all over have it whole lot worse than me, and I should just suck it up and be thankful for how easy I have it. I will stop whining now.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with letting off steam; it's certainly better than eliminating your detractors with heavy weaponry, which has occurred to everyone at some point. The fact is that sexuality is still a huge issue in our culture and our world, so, whether we like it or not, we have to deal. The trap to avoid is turning bitter and self-abusive. We all form some hard shells along the way, it's just necessary sometimes. Just don't let your heart harden to the world or to your life. f**k them, ignore them, deal with them...just don't let it wreck what you want from your life, or who you are...it's not easy to stay "light" in this world. There's some heavy shit out there. As they say, it's a process..I'd give ya a hug and a high five if I was there...

Tino ...

Some thoughts based upon my own personal experiences in Powerlifting.

'I play for a gay league called WCAA in Chicago. Being a 6'2" Vietnamese guy with a 34" vertical and dunking on farm boys from Wisconsin does not get you liked very much.'

Never let this experience hold you back from expressing your talent. These are the tools that you have been given in this life, and use them to your advantage.

Being 'excellent' in sport also comes hand in hand with not being liked very much (sometimes also even your very own colleagues.)

You have to rise above this, and keep focused on delivering performance. Keep slamming those dunks and in time they will learn to respect you.

Guidance from Fantomas ....

'Also consider that the more that you are able to accept yourself, which I admit is not easy for so many of us, to see the beauty you bring to the world, you'll be able to enjoy who you are, and see that have many years ahead of you to share your life, your interests, your view of the world, with others out there, as you're doing here.'

I feel this is the most useful guidance of any on this thread that you've been offered.

Concentrate on your own level of self acceptance. Perform for yourself, and act without concern for what others think of you.

In time you will connect with your purpose in life, and then become more empowered each time you complete a 'chapter' in your journey.

Recommended reading ...

The Celestine Prophecy, An Adventure ... James Redfield.

If you've already read this ... then refer back to me and I'll recommend something more advanced.

Respect.

Chris Morgan
Team England, Powerlifting

Thanks C Morgan. I appreciate your thoughts.

T

Mood swings (even extreme ones) don't necessarily mean you're bipolar. Maybe you are, maybe you aren't. Maybe you're just under a crazy degree of stress right now. After all, some depression is situational.

Meds can help, but they're not a cure-all (just more convenient and socially accepted than they used to be). Without \"talk therapy\" they might not help much, and often the talk helps more. Check out all your options and decide for yourself what's best for you.

And yeah, some family sucks sometimes. But life goes on if you let it.

Being outed against your will (or forced into anything against your will) really sucks. Many of us have been in situations similar enough (though not the same) that we can at least guess how much it hurts. And no, the prejudice of others isn't fair.

Anyway, only you can decide when you're ready. For now, a couselor can help you sort out your human emotions about this confidentially and figure out what you want to do and when.

So hang in there, hoops. It's tough, but you can get through it.

[ January 18, 2005, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: danimal ]

First, the good news, we are all still here and surviving. Second, yes I made one attempt to end my pain by swallowing pills, the poison of choice was valium, lots of them. Leading up to the incident, i felt isolated in a straight world, where my somber moods were growing more frequent. I truly thought of myself as a failure in all areas of life, career, family, relationshihps, etc. I finally got to the point where I was going through the motions but not living, and thought if this is as good as life gets, I'd be much better off checking out. Fortunately, I came to my sense soon after I swallowed the pills and forced myself to upchuck as much of it as I could. I want everyone who thinks like I did, that there is help out there, in various forms, including friends, groups, docs, etc. There is no shame in asking for help. That was 14 yrs ago. Today Im 38, headed for 39 and living life as it was meant, everyday is a new adventure. I have earned 3 college degrees, and am headed back to school again next year, giving serious thought to applying for my PhD or to head toward sports management. For anyone who thinks life is hard, you are right, that's the tough part, but also the most rewarding. My plea is talk to someone, anyone, but don't go through it alone, there is help and people do care, more than you think.
From this survivor to all the rest, be well, always!

[ January 26, 2005, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: GymTiger ]

Yeah going through it all alone sucks. You have to try to be so strong all the time, and sometimes being strong is last thing you wanna do. My situation of being outed is seeming to die down, but it is leaving me wondering if people are seeing me different. I have to admit it is affecting me and my job and my performance. Then I come home and its just me, and Im tired from living a lie all day. I've thought about moving, or quitting coaching. I dont feel totally in control of my life anymore. My only friend who knows all about me, an online friend, says I think too much. He's probably right. I doubt I would ever do anything, but will have to admit, sometimes it crosses my mind that it would be so easy just to make it all stop. I can relate to feeling that way now but I never could before this all went down. Most of my changes were because of me doing something, this one is out of my control. Im sorry to whine, but it doesnt seem fair. It would sure be nice to just let my guard down amd be me for a while, not worrying about what anybody else thinks. I hope those days arent over forever. He's right, life is hard.

I sometimes feel like I think too much. And I recently said the same thing to someone about Annie Lennox, but that's a different story. wink

Remember this: at some point life is hard for everyone. NO ONE has an easy, perfect life from beginning to end. Everyone has to deal with something -- whether it's problems with family or not having family, raising children or not being able to have children, physical illness or mental stress or emotional upset, job worries, money matters, legal problems, whatever. We all need to find a way to get through the bad times in order to enjoy the good times, and we need to help each other to do that when we can. So lean on your online friend, and on us as well, and at some point we'll lean on you when we need support.

Thanks, Joe, I needed to hear that. In these dark winter months the doubts come thick and fast about whether I'm a failure as a person, as a man, as a professional. But, as U2 says, "it's just a moment; this time will pass." And it does.

HoosierHoops, being a teacher, I understand completely how you feel. I have also coached. I have been away from coaching for a few years, to pursue my Masters, which is done, thank god, but I miss the coaching, and someday hope to get back into the ranks full time. I still coach athletes on the side, I can't give it up 100%, and Im willing to bet you feel the same way. I agree that it would be nice to let my guard down at work, there are ways to handle and balance the private and public parts of your life at work, etc. Sometimes it is more difficult than others. Hang in there bud, it does get better!

Joeinphilly, your annie lennox comment put me on the floor

ChiTown, If you get bothered by all the cloudy dreary days this time of year, try a full spectrum light bulb, im being serious, I used to get that way in the winter big time, it was a lack of sun.

A couple of thoughts that might help anyone going through trauma and feeling alone:

1 - I think we are all created separate from one another but from the same source. Loneliness only ends when we lose our self and recognize that original oneness. Then you are never alone.

2 - Suicide is a shortcut to nowhere. Shortcuts never work in life. It harms those who love you and, though you wont accept it, many do love you.

[ January 26, 2005, 05:37 AM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]

[ January 29, 2005, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: hoosierhoopsaddict ]

[ January 29, 2005, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: hoosierhoopsaddict ]