The Shadow Boxer
Emile Griffith beat Benny (Kid) Paret to death in the ring after Paret called him queer. That was 43 years ago. He's still struggling to come to grips with it. So are we

Gays in Sports: A Poll
Americans believe they have become more accepting -- but have they?

Poll data


[Thread title modified for clarity, post modified for hyperlink format and to combine duplicates. - Outsports moderator]

[ April 12, 2005, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: Jim at Outsports ]

Thanks for the links ... very interesting read! Although the first article on Griffith is really long and really dense and, in my personal opinion, not written so well. The story is engrossing and worth the investment, but you do have to read it a few times in spots to get the sequence of events straight in your head.

Still, I'm glad I took the time to read this and am interesting in that movie now.

Thanks!

[ April 12, 2005, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Gaga4Gaby ]

In another thread, swiminbuff posted

It certainly indicates that America has a lot of contradictory feelings about homosexuals in sports. A lot of positives but more than a few negatives when questions got more specific, and especially at the end when questioned about gay coaches.

I was actually surprised about the poll numbers. Considering the current climate in this country, I thought it would have been much worse. In retrospect, we have to look at the positive strides made by our community the last few decades. We still have some way to go, but I think in the next 10-20 years we'll see even greater strides. Look how long it took for the USA to accept intergrated sports--especially professional.

Originally posted by swiminbuff:
"...A lot of positives but more than a few negatives when questions got more specific, and especially at the end when questioned about gay coaches."

Ah! The "gay coach dilemma". According to the poll, the coach issue was more positive for coaches dealing w/ adult athletes, but less so w/ child athletes. One thing I believe re: this topic (and I would like some healthy discussion w/ Outsports members) is that because of "high profile" cases recently involving children & molestation, Americans are suspicious of gay men. Although stats clearly show that most peodphiles are NOT gay, society still has false ideas re: this (the Catholic Church & Its priests was another story). What concerned me then AND NOW was that when those stories hit the news, the only real issue that gays took up w/ the media & society in general (and rightly so) was not to confuse pedophilia and homosexuality. Our community should have gone one step further. We should have made it CLEAR that we don't condone pedophilia.


[Post modified to correct quote reference. - Outsports moderator]

[ April 12, 2005, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: m1 ]

What "high profile" cases are there, other than Michael Jackson and Catholic priests? And there are so many cases involving priests that none individually fits the criteria of "high profile." The most high profile cases involving children in recent times have involved little girls who were molested and murdered by sick men. No homosexuality involved.

I totally agree with you, and by doing so draw attention to the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia.

I wrote my take on it and we also have complete poll results.

A sensible policy in the military is looking more likely now. I think that will precede acceptance in sports.

The Emile Griffith story is a gripping one. There was a shorter summary of it in the last Advocate. They emphasize he is both an icon and a pariah in his native land.

A street is named after him but average people still dismiss him as "that faggot boxer". Well it is the Carribean.

[ April 13, 2005, 12:41 AM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]

People tend to give answers about their own opinions that they deem to be politically correct, ie, "I think the gays are good" because they don't want to be perceived as evil or mean. But when talking about OTHERS opinions, they are much more truthful, I think.

I also thought that the amount of no responses was quite high, too. Guess a lot of people either don't have an opinion, or got tired of answering all the questions.

I blogged about this.

seamusmcstebbins.blogspot.com

The problem with these polls is they just ask a bunch of questions. If you're taking a poll you just ask a bunch of questions and then record the answers. These aren't like interviews or focus groups, where you can ask a follow-up question when a person gives conflicting answers. Anonymous poll participants aren't being confronted on their hypocrisy/stupidity/whatever.

Originally posted by Joe in Philly:
What "high profile" cases are there, other than Michael Jackson and Catholic priests? And there are so many cases involving priests that none individually fits the criteria of "high profile."

The NY times did a thorough study (all over the US) about the priest scandals. They found that 80% of the accused priests identified themselves as homosexual. 20% as heterosexual. But outside of the Catholic church problem, roughly 90% of the child molesters in the US ID themselves as heterosexual. Go figure...

All in all I am encouraged with the results in this weeks Sports Illustrated poll about gay acceptence in sports.As a sports fan who happens to be gay, I always felt being gay does not make you a better athlete,politician or hair dresser.As a kid my hero was Hank Greenberg, not only because he was Jewish like me, but because he was a great ballplayer.However it was nice to have something in common with the home run king!Greenberg also had a lot of fans who were not Jewish...like you didn't have to be Italian to cheer for Joe DiMaggio or black to root for Jackie Robinson...I prefer rating athletes on their accomplishments(stats) on the field.Their Character as a roll model should be consider for their over all sportsmanship on and off the field.( If he happens to be good looking, I won't complain!)
BUT LIFE IS A 2 WAY STREET. IN 1978 I PLAYED AND PITCHED FOR THE CHAMPIONSHIP OIL CAN HARRY'S IN THE GAY SPONSORED COMMUNITY SOFTBALL LEAGUE THAT GOT KICKED OUT OF THE GAY WORLD SERIES IN NEW YORK BECAUSE WE HAD TOO MANY STRAIGHTS ON OUR ROSTER. OUR TEAM WAS MADE UP OF ALL KINDS OF PLAYERS- VIETNAM VETS,OLYMPIC HOPEFUL,DOCTOR AND MYSELF,A FREE-LANCE PHOTOGRAPHER AND PUBLICIST SPECIALIZING IN GAY CLIENTS AND SERVICES AT A TIME IT WAS NOT FASHIONABLE TO BE OPENLY GAY, EVEN IN SAN FRANCISCO. IT WAS
REVERSE DISCRIMINATION. THERE IS A THIN LINE BETWEEN GAY PRIDE AND PREJUDICE AND TOO OFTEN, SOME DO NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.

I cannot believe people are still talking about Emile's fight. If there was no upcoming tv movie no one would be talking about it. Being gay has nothing to do with what kind of athlete a person a person is. I have read many of these posts on this board and others. Too many people still think Aids is a gay disease. Magic Johnson isnt gay. Too many in this country are far too consumed with who is sleeping with who. When they should be worried and concerned about our children being molested in schools and in churches. Its not the gays out there molesting our children its the so called "straight" people. I read the newspaper and watch the news all the time. Havent read nor saw anything about gays committing any crimes. I also read gay publications as well. WAKE UP AMERICA what the hell does that tell ya. INSTEAD OF WORRYING ABOUT GAYS , WORRY ABOUT WHERE THE NEXT TERRORIST BOMB WILL LAND IN THIS COUNTRY. Before the question comes up NO I am not Gay.I do believe there should not be an issue of Gay Rights, they should have the same rights as anyone else in this country. They go to work, they pay their taxes they obey the laws. I dont want to hear God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Well, anyone who was alive back then, DO SPEAK UP!! None of us were alive back then so we only know what we are told what took place.

Welcome, iyce.

Thanks iyce. We needed to hear your voice! :cool:

Is anyone else sick of other people deciding whether or not we have a right to be, or exist, or play, or live or whatever the F it is? Can you imagine if there was a poll in Sports Illustrated about how America felt about Jews, or Blacks or Short People playing professional sports? Give me a break. I am no longer interested in whether or not the rest of the world is willing to accept or tolerate me. Gee, I feel so lucky they "tolerate" me. Like I'm some rash that people need to learn to live with until they find a salve to get rid of me. Whatever. Either deal with me or shut up and get out of my way. Or here's another thought, don't spend so much time thinking about my sex life because I'm not all that interested in yours.

Am I alone on this?

Birdie boy, u go on with your BAD self, u tell em' honey, some people just have no real life of their own.