...Well, not that they're dating anymore...
but in his own words he's telling his tale in the new Sports issue of OUT...no names, of course...
He sounds incredibly smart and makes references to Whitman, Ellison & The Odyssey, as well as some trenchant observations about sports and race and culture.
Sounds even like he might be a black dude...
Interesting piece all around, would love to hear what some of you guys think...
Full Version: Brendan's Boyfriend Speaks...
Is there a link? Can you repost the article?
Are you serious? I assume he's speaking anonymously.
Oh sh*t. Maybe the story was legit.
Sounds like you're describing D*** G********.
Single. Intellectual. Extremely well read. African-American. Recognizable, but not the biggest star. East Coast.
There really aren't that many intellectual baseball players out there.
(I didn't complete the name due to fear of being accused of "outing" -- I ... repeat ... know nothing. I'm merely identifying the one player who fits the traits you've identified.)
Sounds like you're describing D*** G********.
Single. Intellectual. Extremely well read. African-American. Recognizable, but not the biggest star. East Coast.
There really aren't that many intellectual baseball players out there.
(I didn't complete the name due to fear of being accused of "outing" -- I ... repeat ... know nothing. I'm merely identifying the one player who fits the traits you've identified.)
Well, ummm...it took me about two seconds to figure out who you were thinking of. I don't think I'd call him a nationally known figure, but Lemon can be forgiven a little misdirection.
Charlie -
I think you've nailed it. Just read the player's profile and he fits the description to a tee. (Ivy educated - loves reading and music).
After reading the article, I agree with CatcherIn NY - the player does sound like he's African American. The references to Jackie Robinson, Allen Iverson and Dennis Rodman seemed to be dead giveaways.
[ September 06, 2002: Message edited by: hanknyc ]
I think you've nailed it. Just read the player's profile and he fits the description to a tee. (Ivy educated - loves reading and music).
After reading the article, I agree with CatcherIn NY - the player does sound like he's African American. The references to Jackie Robinson, Allen Iverson and Dennis Rodman seemed to be dead giveaways.
[ September 06, 2002: Message edited by: hanknyc ]
Doug Glanville is the name that fits the above descriptions.
Doug's MLB profile
I'm not outing him, because I don't know anything about him other than what's been published. I just don't think that it's fair to do a Page 6 kind of thing about a player with **** to fill in the blanks. I've never been into Scrabble, and so I'll fill in the blanks for those that are interested in reading for themselves.
On this message board there has always been speculation about MANY topics--one of them being who may be gay. Since I consider being gay to be a good thing, I don't consider it to be harmful to speculate--especially about public figures in sports.
Doug's MLB profile
I'm not outing him, because I don't know anything about him other than what's been published. I just don't think that it's fair to do a Page 6 kind of thing about a player with **** to fill in the blanks. I've never been into Scrabble, and so I'll fill in the blanks for those that are interested in reading for themselves.
On this message board there has always been speculation about MANY topics--one of them being who may be gay. Since I consider being gay to be a good thing, I don't consider it to be harmful to speculate--especially about public figures in sports.
Thanks for the link Brent. Of course, if it is DG, then he'd better start hitting better than .238 or it'll be Brendan Lemon saying "Well, I'm still friends with my ex, the former major league ballplayer".
DG has a great smile.
DG has a great smile.
He does have a nice smile. Unfortunately, while he may hang on as a bench player (he's a good defensive outfielder), I fear his days are numbered as a regular starter. So if it is him, I don't think he's in a good position to try coming out. He also wouldn't have managerial support (not from Bowa, anyway), which I think would be necessary for any player planning on making the leap.
Oh well. If it is him, he'll make a great spokesmen if he comes out after he retires.
Oh well. If it is him, he'll make a great spokesmen if he comes out after he retires.
[quote]Originally posted by JC:
Unfortunately, while he may hang on as a bench player (he's a good defensive outfielder), I fear his days are numbered as a regular starter. So if it is him, I don't think he's in a good position to try coming out. He also wouldn't have managerial support (not from Bowa, anyway), which I think would be necessary for any player planning on making the leap.
Thank you, Mr. Bean.
Unfortunately, while he may hang on as a bench player (he's a good defensive outfielder), I fear his days are numbered as a regular starter. So if it is him, I don't think he's in a good position to try coming out. He also wouldn't have managerial support (not from Bowa, anyway), which I think would be necessary for any player planning on making the leap.
Thank you, Mr. Bean.
If it is Glanville, I think he's get a LOT more support than most people imagine. "In 2001, was recipient of Phillies 1st annual Community Service Award for being active with many organizations, including UNICEF, Easter Seals and Boys and Girls Clubs." Baseball would be stupid to ostracize someone so universally respected.
If this were to pan out a lot of people on this site should be looking up recipes for crow...maybe I would buy my first Phillies ticket and see my second Phillies game ever to celebrate.
Doug Glanville? What a sweet guy. Nice, good looking, thirty-two year old Penn grad, engineer, bachelor with healthy bank account.
Sheesh, what more could you want?
I wonder how many folks would apologize for the things they said about Lemon. I can already see the backtracking and rationalizing starting.
Sorry I never spoke to the guy when I had the chance at that pre-screening party for "Summer Catch."
Think you could hook me up again Joe?
Doug Glanville? What a sweet guy. Nice, good looking, thirty-two year old Penn grad, engineer, bachelor with healthy bank account.
Sheesh, what more could you want?
I wonder how many folks would apologize for the things they said about Lemon. I can already see the backtracking and rationalizing starting.
Sorry I never spoke to the guy when I had the chance at that pre-screening party for "Summer Catch."
Think you could hook me up again Joe?
[quote]Originally posted by sportinlife:
If this were to pan out a lot of people on this site should be looking up recipes for crow...maybe I would buy my first Phillies ticket and see my second Phillies game ever to celebrate.
Doug Glanville? What a sweet guy. Nice, good looking, thirty-two year old Penn grad, engineer, bachelor with healthy bank account.
Sheesh, what more could you want?
I wonder how many folks would apologize for the things they said about Lemon. I can already see the backtracking and rationalizing starting.
Sorry I never spoke to the guy when I had the chance at that pre-screening party for "Summer Catch."
Think you could hook me up again Joe?
If it IS Glanville, and if he and Lemon are no longer an item, what makes you think I'd help out my competition?
I haven't gotten the new issue yet, so for now to some extent I'll have to reserve judgment. But based on what was previously said by Lemon, my only thought is that I don't think Glanville is that recognizable on a national level--especially this year, where he hasn't hit at all and doesn't even start half the time.
[quote]Originally posted by JC:
I fear his days are numbered as a regular starter. So if it is him, I don't think he's in a good position to try coming out. He also wouldn't have managerial support (not from Bowa, anyway), which I think would be necessary for any player planning on making the leap.
It is probably a moot point because, with Scranton/Wilkes-Barre now eliminated from their playoffs, the heir apparent Marlon Byrd arrives and will play a lot, and will almost surely take over next April. But what makes you assume he wouldn't get support from Bowa? All he said during the Piazza flap (from the ESPN.com article) was:
[quote]"If it was me, I'd probably wait until my career was over," he said.
He did, however, offer some hope for active players.
"If he hits .340," Bowa said, "it probably would be easier than if he hits .220."
If this were to pan out a lot of people on this site should be looking up recipes for crow...maybe I would buy my first Phillies ticket and see my second Phillies game ever to celebrate.
Doug Glanville? What a sweet guy. Nice, good looking, thirty-two year old Penn grad, engineer, bachelor with healthy bank account.
Sheesh, what more could you want?
I wonder how many folks would apologize for the things they said about Lemon. I can already see the backtracking and rationalizing starting.
Sorry I never spoke to the guy when I had the chance at that pre-screening party for "Summer Catch."
Think you could hook me up again Joe?
If it IS Glanville, and if he and Lemon are no longer an item, what makes you think I'd help out my competition?
I haven't gotten the new issue yet, so for now to some extent I'll have to reserve judgment. But based on what was previously said by Lemon, my only thought is that I don't think Glanville is that recognizable on a national level--especially this year, where he hasn't hit at all and doesn't even start half the time.
[quote]Originally posted by JC:
I fear his days are numbered as a regular starter. So if it is him, I don't think he's in a good position to try coming out. He also wouldn't have managerial support (not from Bowa, anyway), which I think would be necessary for any player planning on making the leap.
It is probably a moot point because, with Scranton/Wilkes-Barre now eliminated from their playoffs, the heir apparent Marlon Byrd arrives and will play a lot, and will almost surely take over next April. But what makes you assume he wouldn't get support from Bowa? All he said during the Piazza flap (from the ESPN.com article) was:
[quote]"If it was me, I'd probably wait until my career was over," he said.
He did, however, offer some hope for active players.
"If he hits .340," Bowa said, "it probably would be easier than if he hits .220."
If this is true, I think all the folks who insisted Lemon had made up the story to build himself up owe him an apology.
Which issue of Out is the story in? Is it on the newsstands yet?
Which issue of Out is the story in? Is it on the newsstands yet?
I believe Bowa also made some remark (can't remember exact quote) that he'd like to see it happen in the Mets clubhouse if they were in a pennant race against them.
October Issue. Just hit the newstands last nite in NYC
[quote]Originally posted by JC:
I believe Bowa also made some remark (can't remember exact quote) that he'd like to see it happen in the Mets clubhouse if they were in a pennant race against them.
The only other quote I could find from Bowa was from the same article:
[quote] Just before the game, still looking for any advantage his team might exploit, he laughed.
"Whoever it is," the manager said, "I hope he comes out tonight."
I believe Bowa also made some remark (can't remember exact quote) that he'd like to see it happen in the Mets clubhouse if they were in a pennant race against them.
The only other quote I could find from Bowa was from the same article:
[quote] Just before the game, still looking for any advantage his team might exploit, he laughed.
"Whoever it is," the manager said, "I hope he comes out tonight."
Why do we think it's Doug Glanville? He's not the only black player on an east coast team.
Thanks for finding that, Joe. That's what I was thinking of. Maybe I read too much into that, but my interpretation was that he thought if a player came out on the Mets, it would distract them from the game. Though it could be read in a positive sense, as supportive of the player, I guess. In any event, he doesn't come across as clearly supportive as Valentine did.
My point was not that he shouldn't come out, because it would be a catastrophe. It might well not be, especially if he's well-liked by his teammates. I don't think the media and fans will be a major problem. But he is at a precarious stage in his career, and I don't think he's likely to want to rock the boat. It's a big risk in a business that's never had an out athlete before when you could very easily be hunting for a job soon.
PCC, the reason we think it's Doug Glanville is that while there are plenty of black players on east coast teams, there aren't very many who are likely to reference Whitman, Ellison and the Odyssey in an interview.
My point was not that he shouldn't come out, because it would be a catastrophe. It might well not be, especially if he's well-liked by his teammates. I don't think the media and fans will be a major problem. But he is at a precarious stage in his career, and I don't think he's likely to want to rock the boat. It's a big risk in a business that's never had an out athlete before when you could very easily be hunting for a job soon.
PCC, the reason we think it's Doug Glanville is that while there are plenty of black players on east coast teams, there aren't very many who are likely to reference Whitman, Ellison and the Odyssey in an interview.
Does Bowa already know?
On May 21, when Piazza held his press conference, coming out as a heterosexual ... Doug Glanville's batting average was .227.
Interesting that Bowa would choose to make his remark about hitting .220.
As far as apologizing to Brendan Lemon: assuming he cares what I have to say, I do owe him an apology for doubting his veracity. I think I was one of the most vocal posters here about declaring him a liar, despite Jim Our Founder's insistence that the story was legit. I do believe, however, that I do not owe him an apology over any criticisms about HOW he handled the story/announcement/outing.
On May 21, when Piazza held his press conference, coming out as a heterosexual ... Doug Glanville's batting average was .227.
Interesting that Bowa would choose to make his remark about hitting .220.
As far as apologizing to Brendan Lemon: assuming he cares what I have to say, I do owe him an apology for doubting his veracity. I think I was one of the most vocal posters here about declaring him a liar, despite Jim Our Founder's insistence that the story was legit. I do believe, however, that I do not owe him an apology over any criticisms about HOW he handled the story/announcement/outing.
Fascinating. If it is cutie Doug Glanville, I'd be curious to see how Philly fans react. They can be pretty tough on their teams and athletes. I also wonder about Glanville's teammates. I bet many of them would be okay with him.
(Has he snagged little hottie teammate Jimmy Rollins? Is that whom he dumped Brendan for?)
Another pro athlete I wonder about is the New York Giants' absolutely phyne Dhani Jones, who in addition to writing and reciting poetry, painting, playing a washboard in New York's 42nd St. station, and acting in college theater has said that he wants to become a doctor, like the Minnesota Vikings' former handsome, hairy RB, Robert Smith. Whoever ends up with--male or female--is lucky IMO.
[ September 08, 2002: Message edited by: fantomas ]
(Has he snagged little hottie teammate Jimmy Rollins? Is that whom he dumped Brendan for?)
Another pro athlete I wonder about is the New York Giants' absolutely phyne Dhani Jones, who in addition to writing and reciting poetry, painting, playing a washboard in New York's 42nd St. station, and acting in college theater has said that he wants to become a doctor, like the Minnesota Vikings' former handsome, hairy RB, Robert Smith. Whoever ends up with--male or female--is lucky IMO.
[ September 08, 2002: Message edited by: fantomas ]
A quote from the Hartford Courant article (September 4, 2002, by John Altavilla) about Dhani Jones:
"At one point, people considered him weird. In college, he painted his fingernails and wrote poetry.
"Experiences in life help bring culture into it," he said.
"Now many simply consider him inadequate. "
This is similar to many articles on Jones that label him "strange," "unusual," a nonconformist, etc.
I wonder if there are any articles on Glanville?
"At one point, people considered him weird. In college, he painted his fingernails and wrote poetry.
"Experiences in life help bring culture into it," he said.
"Now many simply consider him inadequate. "
This is similar to many articles on Jones that label him "strange," "unusual," a nonconformist, etc.
I wonder if there are any articles on Glanville?
[quote]Originally posted by sportinlife:
If this were to pan out a lot of people on this site should be looking up recipes for crow...
I wonder how many folks would apologize for the things they said about Lemon. I can already see the backtracking and rationalizing starting.
...
Naw... no apologies from me. The manner in which Mr. Lemmon used his relationship with the ballplayer was tasteless.
I'm glad the player decided to speak out. abit anonymously, that's ok. Yet, I still think whoever the player may be, he may want to think twice before coming out at this time. If he does, my hat is off to him and he would have my support. However, for all the support he may recieve, it may not be enough to deflect being tagged the "gay baseball player."
Now, I know, I can hear the boos... the hisses...
the Mr. Beans....
But before you throw the icey hot down my jock, think about it...
The opportunity to become a major league baseball player isn't something that is afforded to many jocks. Once you make it, all you want to do is be the best ball player you can be for the team. You want to be known as a baseball player, period. You want your talent and work be your statement of your place on the team, nothing else, including your sexuality.
Would any player realistically risk all that he's worked for just to appease an agenda which will not compensate him when his career is derailed from being a ballpayer to being "the gay ballplayer." and in effect looses his career?
The advancement of acceptance will only work if the player who comes out is successful in his career. Anything less will only serve those who desire is to oppress gay men and women. Americans like winners in their sports. The question is, can the player in question be a winner with all that will be swirling around him and the daggers being thrown at him when he comes out?
Only HE can answer that question.
Good Luck to him...
Ok...now you can throw the icey hot.... YIKES
If this were to pan out a lot of people on this site should be looking up recipes for crow...
I wonder how many folks would apologize for the things they said about Lemon. I can already see the backtracking and rationalizing starting.
...
Naw... no apologies from me. The manner in which Mr. Lemmon used his relationship with the ballplayer was tasteless.
I'm glad the player decided to speak out. abit anonymously, that's ok. Yet, I still think whoever the player may be, he may want to think twice before coming out at this time. If he does, my hat is off to him and he would have my support. However, for all the support he may recieve, it may not be enough to deflect being tagged the "gay baseball player."
Now, I know, I can hear the boos... the hisses...
the Mr. Beans....
But before you throw the icey hot down my jock, think about it...
The opportunity to become a major league baseball player isn't something that is afforded to many jocks. Once you make it, all you want to do is be the best ball player you can be for the team. You want to be known as a baseball player, period. You want your talent and work be your statement of your place on the team, nothing else, including your sexuality.
Would any player realistically risk all that he's worked for just to appease an agenda which will not compensate him when his career is derailed from being a ballpayer to being "the gay ballplayer." and in effect looses his career?
The advancement of acceptance will only work if the player who comes out is successful in his career. Anything less will only serve those who desire is to oppress gay men and women. Americans like winners in their sports. The question is, can the player in question be a winner with all that will be swirling around him and the daggers being thrown at him when he comes out?
Only HE can answer that question.
Good Luck to him...
Ok...now you can throw the icey hot.... YIKES
[quote]Originally posted by fantomas:
A quote from the Hartford Courant article (September 4, 2002, by John Altavilla) about Dhani Jones:
"At one point, people considered him weird. In college, he painted his fingernails and wrote poetry.
"Experiences in life help bring culture into it," he said.
"Now many simply consider him inadequate. "
This is similar to many articles on Jones that label him "strange," "unusual," a nonconformist, etc.
I wonder if there are any articles on Glanville?
Here's one.....
.....but it's from early 1998. But it's an interesting profile of his life up to that point.
A quote from the Hartford Courant article (September 4, 2002, by John Altavilla) about Dhani Jones:
"At one point, people considered him weird. In college, he painted his fingernails and wrote poetry.
"Experiences in life help bring culture into it," he said.
"Now many simply consider him inadequate. "
This is similar to many articles on Jones that label him "strange," "unusual," a nonconformist, etc.
I wonder if there are any articles on Glanville?
Here's one.....
.....but it's from early 1998. But it's an interesting profile of his life up to that point.
I will admit that I, too, questioned Brendan Lemon's claims--and I still disapprove of his furtive outing of his own 'boyfriend.' But, I also suggested at the time that since Lemon was editor of OUT, that he allow his 'boyfriend' to at least give his side of the story, annonymously or otherwise. And the darn guy listened to me!
Should this annonymous self-outing go over well in the media, I don't see why this player (Doug Glanville--who had 200+ hits in '99--or otherwise) couldn't come out publicly now. I mean, I think it's better to do so during the season where the actions of your team are in the public eye than in the off season when they may unceremoniously drop you for poor production.
At lunch today I plan to run out and buy a copy of OUT (if it's available yet in Toronto). I'm curious if the player says anything about his relationship with Lemon, their secret dating and his feelings on being semi-outed.
And if it's not Doug Glanville--poor man! He's been put on the Mike ("I'm not gay!") Piazza hot seat. When's the press conference?
Should this annonymous self-outing go over well in the media, I don't see why this player (Doug Glanville--who had 200+ hits in '99--or otherwise) couldn't come out publicly now. I mean, I think it's better to do so during the season where the actions of your team are in the public eye than in the off season when they may unceremoniously drop you for poor production.
At lunch today I plan to run out and buy a copy of OUT (if it's available yet in Toronto). I'm curious if the player says anything about his relationship with Lemon, their secret dating and his feelings on being semi-outed.
And if it's not Doug Glanville--poor man! He's been put on the Mike ("I'm not gay!") Piazza hot seat. When's the press conference?
[quote]Originally posted by canmark:
And if it's not Doug Glanville--poor man! He's been put on the Mike ("I'm not gay!") Piazza hot seat. When's the press conference?
has the latest twist to the story yet received any national media coverage? i haven't heard any glanville speculation anywhere. (other than here)
obviously, whoever wrote the story knew this would probably refocus attention on him, lemon and the whole gays in sports topic. he may be ready or almost ready to "come out". i kinda' hope it does turn out to be glanville.
And if it's not Doug Glanville--poor man! He's been put on the Mike ("I'm not gay!") Piazza hot seat. When's the press conference?
has the latest twist to the story yet received any national media coverage? i haven't heard any glanville speculation anywhere. (other than here)
obviously, whoever wrote the story knew this would probably refocus attention on him, lemon and the whole gays in sports topic. he may be ready or almost ready to "come out". i kinda' hope it does turn out to be glanville.
I've read that Glanville is one of the half-dozen smartest players in MLB despite his low profile, so that sort of fits with a comment I read by "Take Me Out" playwright Richard Greenberg that Brendan Lemon had told him that the Player kept his keen intellect "closeted" for the most part. And I'd remind you that B.L. said the guy was not a huge star.
Think it's true that if a black player is The First, it would be helpful because SOME homophobes would be afraid of appearing racist? (or at least be somewhat less tolerated)
As for the way the semi-outing was handled, if it's true that Lemon had the Player's approval for every hint he dropped, I think that negates much of the criticism.
Think it's true that if a black player is The First, it would be helpful because SOME homophobes would be afraid of appearing racist? (or at least be somewhat less tolerated)
As for the way the semi-outing was handled, if it's true that Lemon had the Player's approval for every hint he dropped, I think that negates much of the criticism.
It's gotta be Glanville. Here's a clip from that 1998 article:
[quote]Ironically, Glanville will now have the opportunity to play for the team he followed growing up, the Phillies - a team that he had been attracted to by their teal blue road uniforms of the 1970s, complete with the Red P across the chest. This season, he will wear white with red pinstripes, and the modern look includes the Phillies name spelled out across the uniform, something Glanville hopes to change.
"I mentioned [the teal uniforms] to the Phillies organization and told them that's why I loved the team," said Glanville. "The [current road] greys are pretty cool, but I like that P they used to have, I don't really like the Phillies across the front. We'll see what we can do. Maybe if I establish myself a little bit, I can try to lobby for a change back [to the teal uniforms]."
Would a straight guy give a flip about the design and color of the uniform?
[quote]Ironically, Glanville will now have the opportunity to play for the team he followed growing up, the Phillies - a team that he had been attracted to by their teal blue road uniforms of the 1970s, complete with the Red P across the chest. This season, he will wear white with red pinstripes, and the modern look includes the Phillies name spelled out across the uniform, something Glanville hopes to change.
"I mentioned [the teal uniforms] to the Phillies organization and told them that's why I loved the team," said Glanville. "The [current road] greys are pretty cool, but I like that P they used to have, I don't really like the Phillies across the front. We'll see what we can do. Maybe if I establish myself a little bit, I can try to lobby for a change back [to the teal uniforms]."
Would a straight guy give a flip about the design and color of the uniform?
[quote]Originally posted by satxbuddy1:
**** NEW ALERT****
Mike Piazza will hold a new conference before today's game to announce:
" I am not Doug Granville."
[ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: satxbuddy1 ]
**** NEW ALERT****
Mike Piazza will hold a new conference before today's game to announce:
" I am not Doug Granville."
[ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: satxbuddy1 ]
[quote]Originally posted by satxbuddy1:
Mike Piazza will hold a new conference before today's game to announce:
" I am not Doug Granville."
[ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: satxbuddy1 ]
Or Doug Glanville could hold a press conference and say "I'm not Mike
Pizza!!"
[ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: sportinlife ]
Mike Piazza will hold a new conference before today's game to announce:
" I am not Doug Granville."
[ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: satxbuddy1 ]
Or Doug Glanville could hold a press conference and say "I'm not Mike
Pizza!!"
[ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: sportinlife ]
[quote]Originally posted by Bill W:
Think it's true that if a black player is The First, it would be helpful because SOME homophobes would be afraid of appearing racist? (or at least be somewhat less tolerated)
I agree it would be "helpful". Oh wait, what if he comes out as a same-gender-lover, and not as a gay man(re: "pro athlete goes in..." thread)?
Think it's true that if a black player is The First, it would be helpful because SOME homophobes would be afraid of appearing racist? (or at least be somewhat less tolerated)
I agree it would be "helpful". Oh wait, what if he comes out as a same-gender-lover, and not as a gay man(re: "pro athlete goes in..." thread)?
[quote]Originally posted by Lots-of-us:
Would a straight guy give a flip about the design and color of the uniform?
On the other hand, those uniforms from the 70s are generally considered to be ugly (though I disagree). Would a gay guy really want to wear something so ugly?
Would a straight guy give a flip about the design and color of the uniform?
On the other hand, those uniforms from the 70s are generally considered to be ugly (though I disagree). Would a gay guy really want to wear something so ugly?
[quote]Originally posted by Bill W:
Think it's true that if a black player is The First, it would be helpful because SOME homophobes would be afraid of appearing racist? (or at least be somewhat less tolerated)
I personally don't see how it would soften the blow any. Racists would find more reason to justify their racism, and homophobes would not be swayed from expressing their opinions on homosexuality simply because the player is Black. If anything (at least my experience has taught me), the vitrolic comments against a Black homosexual would be even more cruel than usual.
And he wouldn't be the FIRST, unless you're referring to the first to come out while still playing professional ball.
The "SGL" discussion is from another thread, but I see no reason to make fun of the phrase (although I don't use it myself) simply because you don't like it, any more than it would be acceptable to denounce those who choose to embrace previously derogatory terms like "queer". But I digress...
I'm about to say something that the majority of you might not agree with, but f**k it, here goes...
Re: Doug Glanville (or the "mysterious" Black ball player ex of Lemon):
I hope he does not exclusively date or prefer Caucasian men. It would be great to see an intelligent, articulate, masculine, athletic, high-profile Black man come out who has a keen interest in Black history, Black culture ... and his fellow Black men as well. It would go a long way toward the recent Black gay male almost-exclusive, self-loathing images of "two snaps up" and RuPaul, and dispel the pervasive myths in our community that: (a) the good Black catches are not interested in other Black men and (
Blacks become gay because they are "turned out" by White gays (that's an old myth, but it's still out there).
(Not that I'm cyber-hitting on him or anything.)
Think it's true that if a black player is The First, it would be helpful because SOME homophobes would be afraid of appearing racist? (or at least be somewhat less tolerated)
I personally don't see how it would soften the blow any. Racists would find more reason to justify their racism, and homophobes would not be swayed from expressing their opinions on homosexuality simply because the player is Black. If anything (at least my experience has taught me), the vitrolic comments against a Black homosexual would be even more cruel than usual.
And he wouldn't be the FIRST, unless you're referring to the first to come out while still playing professional ball.
The "SGL" discussion is from another thread, but I see no reason to make fun of the phrase (although I don't use it myself) simply because you don't like it, any more than it would be acceptable to denounce those who choose to embrace previously derogatory terms like "queer". But I digress...
I'm about to say something that the majority of you might not agree with, but f**k it, here goes...
Re: Doug Glanville (or the "mysterious" Black ball player ex of Lemon):
I hope he does not exclusively date or prefer Caucasian men. It would be great to see an intelligent, articulate, masculine, athletic, high-profile Black man come out who has a keen interest in Black history, Black culture ... and his fellow Black men as well. It would go a long way toward the recent Black gay male almost-exclusive, self-loathing images of "two snaps up" and RuPaul, and dispel the pervasive myths in our community that: (a) the good Black catches are not interested in other Black men and (
Blacks become gay because they are "turned out" by White gays (that's an old myth, but it's still out there).(Not that I'm cyber-hitting on him or anything.)
What I consider offenses:
1/Bringing up the idea of agreement in this forum. Who told you that you were guaranteed agreement with your opinion(s)?
2/Seriously hoping (in a public set of documents) to prescribe someone else's preferences, racial or otherwise. Why should any player adhere to the sexual "requests" of the public? He's not a juke box. If you want Black men who love Black men, start with yourself and locate the ones who do (there are plenty, including myself); but, to me, asking for an African-American black couple (and that a player date/marry exclusively within his race) is racist, separatist, selfish, controlling, and short-sighted. Do you run a check with your peers when choosing who to date? I mean, come on......
Everyone, I am sure, is welcome in this community in the spirit of sports and friendship. This is where we mingle, come closer, and attempt racially and orientationally what SO many others cannot yet stomach. Agreement is not required.
We're winning here, partially because we're in the game.
Most people are not.
1/Bringing up the idea of agreement in this forum. Who told you that you were guaranteed agreement with your opinion(s)?
2/Seriously hoping (in a public set of documents) to prescribe someone else's preferences, racial or otherwise. Why should any player adhere to the sexual "requests" of the public? He's not a juke box. If you want Black men who love Black men, start with yourself and locate the ones who do (there are plenty, including myself); but, to me, asking for an African-American black couple (and that a player date/marry exclusively within his race) is racist, separatist, selfish, controlling, and short-sighted. Do you run a check with your peers when choosing who to date? I mean, come on......
Everyone, I am sure, is welcome in this community in the spirit of sports and friendship. This is where we mingle, come closer, and attempt racially and orientationally what SO many others cannot yet stomach. Agreement is not required.
We're winning here, partially because we're in the game.
Most people are not.
Well said Bluebird. Guys, happiness is color blind and isn't that what we are all trying to achieve?
Ok.ok...happiness is color blind and Bama losing on Saturdays in the fall.
Ok.ok...happiness is color blind and Bama losing on Saturdays in the fall.
[quote]Originally posted by YellaDawg:
It would go a long way toward the recent Black gay male almost-exclusive, self-loathing images of "two snaps up" and RuPaul,
What's wrong with RuPaul? Drag queens are people, too.
It would go a long way toward the recent Black gay male almost-exclusive, self-loathing images of "two snaps up" and RuPaul,
What's wrong with RuPaul? Drag queens are people, too.
He's a good guy, that RuPaul.
It's bracing to me that Brendan Lemmon's Boyfriend has taken this step in the coming-out process, by publishing his story in a magazine with nation-wide circulation. I support him wholeheartedly, and I hope that the benefits of making these initial moves will continue to be so rewarding to him, that he is suffused with the confidence and courage to become the first athlete in the Major Leagues to come out while an active player... Yet if he feels it's unwise to be quite so bold, I certainly respect his decision.
And RuPaul: I just think, "What a guy!" He's made public and professional appearances both as his blazing "drag personna" and as his unadorned, male self; I sincerely believe he's a model of self acceptance, and worthy of my emulation, because he allows himself (and, I trust, others, as well,) the freedom to express the entire range of personality, from the masculine to the feminine. I should like to be so comfortable with my own feminine qualities! Even though it's unlikely that I'll ever pursue a career as a professional transvestite, I feel RuPaul displays an inspiring integrity. (I'm sure he has his shortcomings, as we all do, yet I've never actually heard him make serious, damaging remarks against anyone else.) And I've never thought of RuPaul as a representive of all black men who love men; I just consider him a unique individual, whose particular panache has brought enjoyment to many different types of people, and perhaps softened a few rigid attitudes with the balm of gracious --if outrageous!-- humor.
[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: fielderschoice ]
And RuPaul: I just think, "What a guy!" He's made public and professional appearances both as his blazing "drag personna" and as his unadorned, male self; I sincerely believe he's a model of self acceptance, and worthy of my emulation, because he allows himself (and, I trust, others, as well,) the freedom to express the entire range of personality, from the masculine to the feminine. I should like to be so comfortable with my own feminine qualities! Even though it's unlikely that I'll ever pursue a career as a professional transvestite, I feel RuPaul displays an inspiring integrity. (I'm sure he has his shortcomings, as we all do, yet I've never actually heard him make serious, damaging remarks against anyone else.) And I've never thought of RuPaul as a representive of all black men who love men; I just consider him a unique individual, whose particular panache has brought enjoyment to many different types of people, and perhaps softened a few rigid attitudes with the balm of gracious --if outrageous!-- humor.
[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: fielderschoice ]
Well-said fielderschoice. Now if we could just get Tom Brady to...oh forget it, I'm dreaming again.
How can so much thought and speculation be put into print when it's not even confirmed that it is this guy? Hello? It's all worthless, including Mr. Lemon's original piece (A closeted outing? A faux outing? Gossiping about his own boyfriend? It's f**ked up) if the guy hasn't come out. In fact, it's a p.r. charade. Everyone's so desperate for a gay ballplayer to come out...but no one's actually out yet so whatever....
And YellaDog, while you have every right to your consistently seperatist point of view, it's hypocritical and rude to dismiss RuPaul as a gay black stereotype.
As Patti LaBelle once said, we all have more in common than we don't. We all pee, bleed, and cry. Thank you. Snap, snap.
[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: bryan d. ]
And YellaDog, while you have every right to your consistently seperatist point of view, it's hypocritical and rude to dismiss RuPaul as a gay black stereotype.
As Patti LaBelle once said, we all have more in common than we don't. We all pee, bleed, and cry. Thank you. Snap, snap.
[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: bryan d. ]
[quote]Originally posted by bluebird48234:
Who told you that you were guaranteed agreement with your opinion(s)?
2/Seriously hoping (in a public set of documents) to prescribe someone else's preferences, racial or otherwise.
EXCELLENT points Bluebird-- "You go,man !"
Who told you that you were guaranteed agreement with your opinion(s)?
2/Seriously hoping (in a public set of documents) to prescribe someone else's preferences, racial or otherwise.
EXCELLENT points Bluebird-- "You go,man !"
I never stated that I EXPECTED agreement with my opinion. In fact, I do believe that I stated that I expected to be disagreed with here... especially on this forum, in a room filled with predominantly White gay men (and the men who love them). Black men loving other Black men: tough crowd for such an opinion.
Regarding RuPaul Charles, whom I DO know personally, and is an interesting enough person: RuPaul is a caricature, dare I even say buffoonish, in persona. I have no problem whatsoever with showing that side of Black homosexuality; however, there is very little balance whatsoever in our images. If it's not the "big Black stud", then it's "the outrageous Black drag queen" (although entertaining, neither which fits the description of most Black men that I know). And some of you wonder why it's so difficult for Black men to come out of the closet?
Regarding RuPaul Charles, whom I DO know personally, and is an interesting enough person: RuPaul is a caricature, dare I even say buffoonish, in persona. I have no problem whatsoever with showing that side of Black homosexuality; however, there is very little balance whatsoever in our images. If it's not the "big Black stud", then it's "the outrageous Black drag queen" (although entertaining, neither which fits the description of most Black men that I know). And some of you wonder why it's so difficult for Black men to come out of the closet?
Yella - I'm not sure if you're purposely inciting this discussion or not, maybe you have felt so excluded in this world that you need your special club. But, dude, this is gay land...we're gay! We get the whole exclusion thing. Call us white, call us priviledged (which I don't feel lately, waiting for my unemployment checks and getting paid nothing for having my fiction published online), hell, call us white gay people with all the disgust you so easily muster, but most of us "gay people" have dealt with exclusion and shame and discrimination on some level. You. Don't. Own. It.
I'm not trying to compete with your victimhood, but come on...You wear your special outsider status like a badge with a bitter edge and it ain't stylin.
A black man loving another black man might be an elite club to you deserving of a title (SGL) steeped in denial of being homosexuals, but to me, it's two fellow gay men who've found one another and will hopefully allow their love to reach full bloom.
I'm not trying to compete with your victimhood, but come on...You wear your special outsider status like a badge with a bitter edge and it ain't stylin.
A black man loving another black man might be an elite club to you deserving of a title (SGL) steeped in denial of being homosexuals, but to me, it's two fellow gay men who've found one another and will hopefully allow their love to reach full bloom.
Yella says that he knows RuPaul. Let's say I believe him. Has he ever tried drag? Probably not, out of bigotry.
RuPaul is adding a great dimension to our understanding of ourselves. Yet, for all his uniqueness, you don't hear him agressing other gay people.
As I have posted before, I have written a letter to the Washington Blade regarding the pictorial representation of people of color at that time. I do think that it was part of an effort to get that changed.
I just think, Yella, that you're angry out of idleness and lack of direction. If you were more active in a way that speaks to us all, or even just yourself, you wouldn't be so angry.
Anyway, angry or not, you are going to have get in the game. Players can tell a spectator from a mile away. I don't need/want to hear about who you know, I want to hear about what you're doing.
If you can't admit that you might at least need to do a minor "check", then you must be comfortable with the abusive role.
[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]
RuPaul is adding a great dimension to our understanding of ourselves. Yet, for all his uniqueness, you don't hear him agressing other gay people.
As I have posted before, I have written a letter to the Washington Blade regarding the pictorial representation of people of color at that time. I do think that it was part of an effort to get that changed.
I just think, Yella, that you're angry out of idleness and lack of direction. If you were more active in a way that speaks to us all, or even just yourself, you wouldn't be so angry.
Anyway, angry or not, you are going to have get in the game. Players can tell a spectator from a mile away. I don't need/want to hear about who you know, I want to hear about what you're doing.
If you can't admit that you might at least need to do a minor "check", then you must be comfortable with the abusive role.
[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]
[quote]Originally posted by YellaDawg:
RuPaul is a caricature, dare I even say buffoonish, in persona. I have no problem whatsoever with showing that side of Black homosexuality; however, there is very little balance whatsoever in our images. If it's not the "big Black stud", then it's "the outrageous Black drag queen" (although entertaining, neither which fits the description of most Black men that I know). And some of you wonder why it's so difficult for Black men to come out of the closet?
Do SGL men even have closets to come out of? I figured they would rather come out of something less "gay", like maybe a garage, or a beer cooler maybe.
RuPaul is a caricature, dare I even say buffoonish, in persona. I have no problem whatsoever with showing that side of Black homosexuality; however, there is very little balance whatsoever in our images. If it's not the "big Black stud", then it's "the outrageous Black drag queen" (although entertaining, neither which fits the description of most Black men that I know). And some of you wonder why it's so difficult for Black men to come out of the closet?
Do SGL men even have closets to come out of? I figured they would rather come out of something less "gay", like maybe a garage, or a beer cooler maybe.
Thanks, Bluebird.
You're free to call me whatever you want. If it makes you feel better, you're free to make your own evaluations about me. I don't bruise that easily, so knock yourself silly.
And coming from this "spectator", congratulations on you being a "player" who "speaks to us all". Really.
[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: YellaDawg ]
You're free to call me whatever you want. If it makes you feel better, you're free to make your own evaluations about me. I don't bruise that easily, so knock yourself silly.
And coming from this "spectator", congratulations on you being a "player" who "speaks to us all". Really.
[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: YellaDawg ]
Just wanted to say hi to "Brendans boyfriend...or ex" He must be biting at the bit to get into this group.
If "Brendan's boyfriend or ex" is the intelligent person we think he is, he would probably be fascinated by some of the discussions on this board, including this one.
[quote]Originally posted by sportinlife:
Just wanted to say hi to "Brendans boyfriend...or ex" He must be biting at the bit to get into this group.
What makes you think he might not already be in this group? He could very well be reading and/or participating in this discussion.
Boys could be watching. Always look cute!
Just wanted to say hi to "Brendans boyfriend...or ex" He must be biting at the bit to get into this group.
What makes you think he might not already be in this group? He could very well be reading and/or participating in this discussion.
Boys could be watching. Always look cute!
[quote]Originally posted by YellaDawg:
Boys could be watching. Always look cute!
lol YellaDawg, and don't forget the clean underwear, just in case...
Out magazine hit the stands a couple of day ago, right? Has anyone here read it? hanknyc?
[typo]
[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: redsoxbreath ]
Boys could be watching. Always look cute!
lol YellaDawg, and don't forget the clean underwear, just in case...
Out magazine hit the stands a couple of day ago, right? Has anyone here read it? hanknyc?
[typo]
[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: redsoxbreath ]
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