Okay I'm curious here:

How many people on Outsports play a team sport on a straight team? And of those people, how many of you are out to the team? And which sport is it?

I play hockey and am not out to my team. Most teams I've played on, it would be very uncomfortable to be out. Maybe it's that whole macho hockey thing.. not sure.

anyway, what about others?

Trevor

I swim on a gay team so of course, they know.

But I do train with a straight team, 2-3 practices a week and Yes, some of them know. The coach knows, as well as some of the team members. They have asked me to swim the straight meets under thier name, and at the Gay meets swim with my Gay team.

every person on my usta league team knows, as do all of the people on my basketball team. (i'm the only gay one, other than my husband, on either team)

many of these guys were close friends of mine before i "came out", so that made it easier since they found me "normal" already.

of course, word spreads and pretty much everyone in houston in the 4.5/5.0 divisions knows that danny and i are gay nowadays.

Yes, but look at the cost to yourself.

I am asking you to investigate (with the assistance of someone you trust) the pros and cons of coming out.

I am not promoting your coming out as much as I'm wanting to remind you that for ANYONE who has ever done it, coming out is death-defying risk. Nevertheless, you may be cheating and bad-mouthing a handful of your (macho) teammates, who might, although thoroughly surprised, cherish your TRUE machismo and honesty proven by your commitment to challenge your organization to treat you like a human being in face of fluctuating circumstances.

We all face them (fluctuating circumstances). Some of us move to Barcelona to take a new job, some of us have a relative die, some of us find out that a teammate's girlfriend is in a detox program for former addicts.

But this YOUR life, and YOU are the person who has to say how important each component (sexuality, education, love, food, travel, etc.)weighs in. That is, although coming out to a macho hockey might get you murdered, YOU have within yourself the power to say what your life will say.

Go deep. Very deep - and ideally, with a trustworthy friend.

If staying closeted proves to be the best thing for you, given that you have goals that are a higher priority (this will not make you any "less gay", by the way), I shall respect that wholeheartedly and gleefully .

But if you can continue AS YOU ARE - that will be a challenge that could expose that you are much more powerful than think you are.

[ March 03, 2003, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]

Yep - if they get to know you first it seems much easier. Then its harder to stereotype you .

I not only play on a straight sports team - Ultimate Frisbee is my game - but in a nearly all-straight sports league. More importantly, I play on a different team every season, because teams are selected according to a mathematical formula to equalize the talent over the league.

I actually asked about this when I was first on the board - because I end up coming out to a new team every season. Because Ultimate is a "hippie" sport, not to mention being co-ed, it is likely more accepting than most sports. There are a number of out lesbians who play, but I don't know of any other out gay men.

I have made the decision to come out to every team I'm on, although it is not the first thing I do. Because all teams talk about their weekend plans, their personal lives, etc., I normally find an opening to "come out" in a subtle way. For example, there was a time, during a discussion of older women/younger men, I was asked, "You'd sleep with Kim Bassinger, wouldn't you?" I said no, and when asked why not, replied "She's a woman." The two people having the discussion responded "well, you're no help!" and went on to ask another guy.

I personally have found few, if any problems, in part because I have a reputation in the league of being a decent player, and the team knows me for at least one game before they know I'm gay. I also have gay stickers on my car, and wear a set of rainbow beads (very subtle) most days, so there are clues if the team members want to look for them.

There has only been one issue - and that was the guy who spent the rest of the season telling me how okay he was with my being gay. I and the rest of the team clued in pretty quickly that he was a major closet case.

[ March 04, 2003, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: CPT_Doom ]

Great post, CPT_Doom! I wish I had such a good story to tell, but all I can add to this thread is from an opposite standpoint. I've played soccer for many years on a gay team, one that is also open to gay-positive straight players. I can't count the number of times that, after a new guy has joined up and played a few games, I'll hear someone say, "What? That guy's straight?!" It's kinda funny the way the lines blur sometimes.

Luckily I'm the captain of my tennis team, so if the straight guys don't like it, they can go elsewhere. However, luckily for us, everyone on our team gets along so great. It is vastly preferable to me to have a mixed team as opposed to being on one of the gay teams that are in our league. I just sort of like the variety myself, and the group we have are all really fun and really good players, so it's win-win.

plus, matt, y'all get to leer at the straight boys... wink

We can usually spot the straight guys, on our team, they usually don't shower after the swim practice....

There is only one thing the same between playing on a straight hockey team and being gay. I suck at both wink

What I mean is that if I was asked directly I would answer the question.

Are you Married? Dating? Gay? I also play on my straight team with another gay man. We also are trying to start up a gay team here.

There's one guy who's a total sex pig womanizer, I'm not that way being gay (ok well maybe a little) but it's all about impressions. I don't give the impression I'm gay cuz I don't dress in a feather boa on the ice.

If asked...I'll tell! There is only one thing the same between playing on a straight hockey team and being gay. I suck at both wink

We just have to show that there is gay life beyond those stupid stereotypes.

I'm much like Chuck on my team (in the same league), I've been with this team for five years, and I'm sure a few of my straight teammates know, but haven't told me that they do. Of course, out of seventeen players on the team, there are three gay me (including me) and one lesbian. We're doing our part to up the league's quota. :cool:

In another thread, TonkaManOR posted

Playing on straight teams?

OKay, I had to relay this to you guys/gals. Last night I was being the good soccer husband, watching the bf's team play (as I always do). At one point the hubby got tangled up with a player from the opposing team. He apologized and the other player said, "that's okay, it's not like either one of us is gay." My husband shot back, "speak for yourself!" and smiled at him.

Play then continued. He told me about it and I wondered if anyone else has had a similar experience. He also wanted me to bring it up on here. I get along great with his team. they are always at our house for parties, etc.

TonkaMan - I have played in a straight Ultimate Frisbee league for going on 10 years. I was actually closeted when I started, so have had the experience of coming out repeatedly in the league (we are assigned to different teams each season, and often play with new people).

My similar experience has happened a few times when, typically as part of the normal trash-talking on a sideline, a straight male player may say "F**k You" to me and I'll respond "no thanks, I like men, not boys." I have never gotten a good retort to that one, and it normally gets me some respect from the straight player.

When I played golf freshman year, it was sort of an open secret. (Actually, I don't want to call it a secret because I would never have said I was straight.) Word gets out with that kind of stuff at smaller schools and I assume the guys all knew, but I never mentioned it and they never asked. I was only close to a couple of my teammates, and once I got my social footing we never hung out all that much outside of practice. The GLBT coordinator wanted me to be quoted in the newspaper during Pride Week for an article about gay athletes, but I demurred...I was cool with being out, but not cool with being the gay freshman poster child for Princeton athletics. Besides, by then I knew I wasn't going to play sophomore year and people would ask questions when I quit.

The one time the subject did come up, which was sometime sophomore year after I had stopped playing, it was out drinking some Friday or Saturday night when one of the guys was like "you're gay, right?" and I said yeah. His girlfriend was like "that's what I thought" (after that, I did some research and found that more people knew than I expected) and we had a long, funny drunk conversation about her brother, who had just come out to her. It involved her telling me he was coming up soon, and she wanted me to hook up with him...I was 19 and he was 15. "He'll be 16 in a couple months. He's so cute, you'd love him!" Anyway.

[ November 18, 2003, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: golf_god ]

I was "in the closet with the door open" when I coached the US Ski Team (cross-country); when I coached high-school I was totally out, and since retiring from the Team, I've been totally out, even in some publications.

Never a problem. In fact, I know several athletes have taken on some homophobes because they know and trust me.

Nat

in my four years at Bradley, I have played many many intramural sports and all my teammates always knew. I even played one year of division one tennis here for Bradley.

I play in a couple of golf leagues in small town Wisconsin. In my full-time league, I would say 95 percent the entire league knows. A few of the guys are a little distance but overall most of the boys are petty good. My handicap is better than 80 percent of the players, so the "gay guy" gives strokes in our match play system almost every week.
In fact, some of the guys (all staight) that I play with on a regular basis are very competitive and you better be able to take and dish the verbal shots. We play team scrambles all the time. I am usually the guy hits the ball "straight" putting in play with the other guys going for the huge drive.

I am an active scuba diver and working on my instructor cert. Yes, diving is a sport...don't get me started on that.

I have made no secret about being gay. If someone asks I tell them. On road trips I assist the new students and sometimes share a room with them. I don't mention my personal life unless asked. No problems so far.

Hey there,

Well from my point of view - most teams i have played on have known i was gay, be that a rugby team or an ice hockey team (hockey here is field hockey).

Including the strange situation in a rugby game where one of my good (straight) mates pulled me up after a particuarly heavy maul, stood me up, brush off some of the mud and then muttered "just look at yourself... no wonder you don't have a boyfriend"

Professional sport is a little different - there has always been mutterings that this or that All Black is gay - but yet to find an out one...

then again - perhaps being at the bottom of the world makes our persepctive a little different

Well from the top of the world in Alaska, this isnt a sports team, but I think some of the same things of a crew on a fishing boat can translate over. After years of working with the same guys and crew, I pretty much came out to my best friends. I wasnt treated any different, except with one guy whose mom was a lesbian, he always wanted to talk about it. There was one new guy one year, who started talking about how he ever found out that there was a fag on board he would throw them overboard, he changed his mind really quick, then I was surprised how he turned out to be such a really nice guy almost to point where I thought he would become a gay activist.

Some of the funny experiences were like the time, me and my friend were working on the net and I was extremely tired, and found myself day dreaming, my friend told me to quit staring at the first mate's ass and get back to work, I started cracking up and then the 1st mate turned around and said what's so funny, and we both started rolling.

Or the time we were in a cab and he was hitting on this Vietnamese woman cab driver, he asked her what kind of music she liked, she said the music of her country. I thought she meant country music, so I was like "oh yeah that Billy Ray Cyrus guy is pretty fine huh", he thought that was pretty funny.

Hmmmm... Interesting.

In College my Football, Wrestling, and Baseball teams did not know; If I had it to do again - who knows?

Today SOME members of my Softball team know, as do a couple of members of my Dojo (Though that is probably not a great indicator as most of the ones who know - well, they happen to be gay too...) Frankly it just hasn't come up...

Although I am Out, I don't usually tell people who don't ask for some reason... Since I work in Academia, it has never been an issue...

I played Football and Tennis in College both on Scholarship and 15+ years of Rugby. No one on my Football teams or Rugby knew. It was very hard to keep my emotions in check w/Rugby do to copius amounts of beer and interaction at the After parties w/ both teams. I did have a couple of flings with my fellow ruggers but not Football jocks. Just too macho. And my rugby fligns were not long lasting (mostly I can't believe what we did last night kinda of crap) My tennis buds could have cared less. Sexuality was never an issue to them. Seems the hard sports- hockey, football and rugby there's still too much testosterine. wink wink

HaHaHa! Story of my life. Just add a dour personality to that mud.

i live in duluth, minnesota and play for the duluth east greyhounds

its been really hard, i haven't come out yet to the team and nobody knows that i'm gay

i'm not sure what to do about it, any advice would be appreciated...thanks...

Welcome, Tim. You'll find a lot of people here who are willing to jump in and give you advice and share their own personal experiences. You might want to search some of the prior discussions here as well. I'll say this: come out when you're ready. Don't rush it.

Great Discussion:

I have always seemed to be lucky on this topic. I think it has a lot to do with my partner, an all around athlete and very out jock! We actually met at a gay hockey tournament in Toronto. We both played in Oakland California on straight teams and we were both very out. In fact we coached a pee-wee hockey team and we were out as a couple. The kids loved us and the parents loved us... but hey that was the Bay area!!!

We have since moved to Vermont where we both play on straight teams, and we are both out in the league. Recently our town opened up an a new arena and now we are running the local men's hockey league and yes we are out! It is ironic when you think about all these men in our small rural Vermont town calling a gay couple to play hockey at the local rink. (.. but then again it is Vermont)

Having said that, there have been negatives. On one occasion a player was spouting the usual homophobia in the lockerroom when my partner told him to stop and came out to him, the player (a young 20 year old macho jerk) replied "I don't care whose dick you suck as long as it's not mine" well my partner just tore into the guy and chased him out of the rink and into the parking lot. The league came out on our side and that homophobic jerk is a lot less homophobic now.

I would be carefull, it helps if you are not alone and have some support. If you decide to be out then you need to be ready for anything. The straight guys we have played with have always shown us respect for being honest about who we are. They don't have issues changing or showering in the same locker-room, and in many cases they have become friends. We have even had a few join us at gay hockey tournaments.

So tread carefully, get to know your team first and then introduce the topic, one player at a time. The benefits to being out on the team are great but be carefull and know who your team mates are?

Good speaking HockeyPaul
this topic line is alot more cheerful and uplifting compared to another you have been submitting to....

the advice you give applies to any coming out situation - not just sport.


good luck for things in Duluth

Catch ya from sport mad new zealand.... by the way dud you guys check out the Rugby Sevens, and the World Softball Champs? *grin8

E

I've avoided posting on this thread because I don't have very much experience being on a formal team, but besides the company softball team in '01, I played pick up soccer with basically the same group at the University of Maryland from about '96 to about '02.

In that particular case, I don't think I was out to anyone there, but the first "El Presidente" of the group probably figured it out after reading one of my columns in the school newspaper. However, he mentioned some past columns or letters to the editor that broached some of the same subjects I did. Then again, his not caring about it may have had to do with his being Canadian. wink

I read that New Zealand beat Canada at softball. It was something like third in a row for NZ. Sorry for my off topic post.

Im a gay boys basketball coach in Indiana, I also played in school. It's a very homophobic environment, but I feel badly about not having the balls to be honest. Im also over 40 and just within the last 6 months acting on my being gay. Any thoughts or whatever appreciated. I feel pretty isolated. DS

Hey there,
great to hear that your still involved with sport and coaching away.

There is no need to feel isolated, there are some great resources out there to help figue out some of the stuff you are going through.

A quick call to the local gay switchboard or something similiar (am sure a google search will pop up something) will point you in the right direction be it a support group, a sports team or just a buddy.

Hope everything goes well in Indiana

E.

Understandable. If you're a teacher as well as a coach, you might want to check out GLSEN for starters.

I've played a variety of sports before I was out. I came out a couple years ago and haven't played any team sports since recently when I joined the local amateur rugby team.

I guess I'm not the rainbow flag waving type of gay guy, and a lot of people don't know that I'm queer. If they ask or it comes up, I won't lie, but I figure there's no reason to bring it up. It's not like they come over and tell me, "I just wanted to let you know that I like girls."

Also, I'm pretty easy going and not only don't find the typical gay banter non-offensive, but entertaining and join right in. But I'll just as quickly make fun of someone's breader activities as someone's queer activities.

Currently, no one on my team knows I'm gay, but it's not that I wouldn't tell them. I do avoid the topic when I'm boozing with them right now, but that's just because I want to earn my stripes before they find out. Right now, since I'm a rookie, I'm only playing B side games. Once I kick some ass in an A side game, I won't mind that they know.

That's my philosophy in any situation, sporting or not. I don't care if people know I'm queer, but I really like them to have the opportunity to respect me for my talents and for who I am rather than my sexuality. It's a really small part of my life and it doesn't consume me.

As to the not being true to yourself, I figure there are things that are personal and things that are not. This is something that's kind of personal...not secret, just not something that I post on my mailbox and put on my driver's license.

My thoughts exactly - once you are known then its harder for other guys to stereotype you! I do the same with my profession- I'd rather they get to know the real "Jim" first before they know I'm a cop. :cool: