Kyle Shewfelt qualified in the floor and the vault, so there's a chance.

I agree with you that Hamm looked like toast after he fell on his vault. But then with the other gymnasts stumbling and bumbling (Yang Wei, Hiro Tomita, this means you)... he almost won by default.

Is Nemov even there? I haven't seen him on TV once.

I haven't seen him on TV, either, but the Russians were not a factor in the team competitions and he only did pommel horse, parallel bars and high bar, so he didn't qualify for the all-around. Maybe he has a leg injury?

His scores on the high bar have been 9.737 and 9.75, so he's not too far off a medal performance. Let's hope he saved the best for last.

I only saw him a couple of times, but never competing, just watching the others. He looked very tanned.

I think the hard thing about scoring is most of the time we don't know the start value, which can be somewhat arbitrary I guess.

For example, Brett McClure on the rings did a routine ery similar in form to the Romanians. He also hit all the elements and held the strength moves for long enough, and he stuck the landing. Somehow, his start value was just a 9.5 so he ended up with a 9.1 and change. It seemed like a very low score that knocked him way down in the competition.

It's US all the way from here! :cool:

Since this thread has turned back into a discussion of gymnastics instead of the eye candy on the floor (It's not a bad thing, but IMO, that's why there is a hot jock area on the board), I have a comment about Hamm's vault & McClure's ring score ...

While his score may appear rather high, it is important to remember that a judge can take off a MAXIMUM of 0.5 for the landing of a vault. To my knowledge ... and according to numerous gymnastics discussion boards that I checked this morning, this deduction includes the steps made upon landing as well as the gymnast going "out of bounds". (On floor exercise, the situation is different, you would receive the deduction for the fall, as well losing 0.1 for going out of bounds.)

Since the start value of his vault was at a 9.9, the maximum score that he could receive for that vault was a 9.4. Given that he has limited deductions in the air ... it was a clean vault with solid height, the score isn't too out of line. Personally, I would have scored him at a 9.05-9.1 ... 0.2-0.3 deduction for SLIGHTLY underrotating the twist (less 1/8th short on the twist) and landing the vault SLIGHTLY short and 0.05 deduction for height since he finished the twist very late (compared to the Romanian, Suciu who achieved GREAT height on the vault, which allowed him to open up and prepare for the landing MUCH sooner than Paul) ... score below 9.0 would focus too much on the landing of the vault and not on the solid execution of the vault before landing.

As for Brett McClure, I thought that his ring score was spot on. He doesn't have the same strength to strength combinations as the other gymnasts and I don't believe that he held his planche for the required 2 seconds. I think that his max start value on the event is a 9.7, so even if he was perfect, he would have dropped in the standings. He had an incredible competition, but his ring score seemed right to me.

Nick

[ August 19, 2004, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: The_Hammerman ]

They always talk about this "2 seconds" but I see many of the gymnasts scoring very high that if you timed it, almost all of their strength moves were under a full two seconds. You could count to two, but if you held a watch (which I did for a couple of them) they did not reach two seconds. My frustration I guess is that it seems that the more "elite" gymnasts were given the benefit of the doubt on the timing of these moves whereas people like McClure were held to a much stricter line on the 2 second rule.

It's all US from here on out!

Understandable DC guy, but gymnastics has a certain degree of favoritism ... as does figure skating, diving ... any sports which involve a judge. Brett is known to struggle on rings, so judges are going to be more stringent about his strength positions. His planche was rather questionable ... timing and position wise ... and the judges dinged him. Bottom line, if the judges know that you have a weakness on a certain skill, they're going to keep a closer eye on that skill than they would for another gymnast. Is it fair? No, but it's the way that the world works. When I competed, I was horrible on the rings, so I knew that I would get scrutinized more on that event than on the pommel horse, where I had a stronger routine.

An example of this is in the women's competition ... there isn't a chance in the world that Khorkina ever properly completes her Gogean-double twisting tuck jump combination, yet she receives benefit of the doubt due to her history. If Yelena Crapalova from Gymnasticstan performed the same routine that Sveta did in the team competition, she wouldn't have received a 10.0 start value. It's not fair ... but it's something which we all know and expect to deal with at a competition.

Nick

Gee, JC. Do you work for the NBC PR department?

"Must. Boost. Ratings. Must Boost. Ratings."

Nick, thanks for the comments on the scoring. I was wondering exactly what McClure had missed, since I figured he wouldn't have intentionally gone for a 9.5 start value, even on a weak event. I wasn't aware that the 0.5 was a maximum on the landing--the commentators implied that 0.5 was automatic and that there could be more deductions for being out of bounds.

Do you think Sveta would be better served by choosing a vault she can actually land rather than that crazy-looking thing she does? Or do you think she's not a good enough vaulter to land a 9.8 difficulty vault cleanly enough to consistently score 9.5-9.6, which would be a significant improvement on what she gets.

I thought Hamm's comeback performance was amazing, and I'm surprised people on this board aren't focused on that. Instead, seems like you guys are focused more on the details of the scoring. Which I think some good points have been made about keeping in mind the difficulty of the element and the start score. Every gymnast has a different start score based on the difficulty of the routine, and then the deductions go from there. So since Hamm had a more difficult vault, his "low" score didn't seem as low as others because he started off at a higher level. And come on, how can you not feel -- even as a judge -- that Hamm gave a spotless performance on the high bar. Sure, the high score probably reflected the judges' feeling that he was able to do a perfect performance after a devasting fall showing that, you know what, he's an Olympic champion in character. So I believe Paul deserves the gold because for him to stand up and continue on is truly what makes the Olympics inspiring. And all the grumbling from the Romanians and South Koreans is just poor sportsmanship, IMHO.

Even though I already knew he won (ugh, how can you avoid the headlines these days with the Internet!), it was still great to see his reaction and it was fun hearing the TV commentators write him off only to be speechless when he pulled off the greatest comeback in gymnastic competition.

(And back to the hot jock sub-discussion, I still think Hamm has a great body, especially his butt, despite his voice. Actually, his voice is kind of growing on me, I'm starting to think it's cute.)

To add my two cents - I was amazed at Hamm's comeback (but I am more amazed that he claims to be 5'6" - and I'm the Pope ), but not being a huge gymnastics fan, I was a little confused by the scoring as well.

Even more than the scoring itself, though, was the inability to really understand what makes a good program, and thus a high score. Certainly Hamm performed well on those two key bar events, but to an untrained eye the differences between his programs and others' are hard to figure out - except for the landings, of course, and those amazing releases on the high bar.

What I did notice, and please correct me if I am wrong about this Hammerman/Nick, was that Hamm, particularly in the rings and the high bar, seemed to have so much more bodily control in his movements. I was doing the "one one thousand, two one thousand" counts and it seemed like Hamm, sore shoulder and all, was holding his strength moves on the rings for 2. 5 - 3 seconds. On the high bar, everyone but Hamm seemed to wobble slightly when moving into a handstand, whereas Hamm was able to stop his momentum almost at the exact moment his legs hit pure vertical. Those were the things that caught my eye and helped explain how he jumped from 12th to 4th to 1st.

However he did it - what an amazing performance! And it has to be great to win the first gold medal in an event for your country. Given the lack of enthusiasm for men's gymnastics in this country, I doubt, though, whether Hamm will be able to buy an Escalade, like Michael Phelps did.

Amazing indeed! And he interviews well too.

And speaking of voices ... he's from the same hometown (Waukesha) as another "little guy" ... Sammy Llanas of the BoDeans. :cool:

Quick story ...

At a dual meet in HS, a teammate of mine was performing a front handspring vault and upon landing, he practically ran out the door of the auditorium (Our meets were in the upper gym of the high school and our vault was near the front door of the gym. Fortunately, we remembered to open the door before our team vaulted otherwise he could have face planted into the door.) b/c he couldn't control the landing. (Side Note: This was BY FAR the most amusing moment of my HS gymnastics career besides an issue with our team accidentally ordering see-through shorts for our first dual meet, but I digress.)

Anyways, the guy must have taken AT LEAST 10 steps, but he managed to stay on his feet. At first, I was confused about how he still received a decent score. The reason was because of the maximum landing deduction. If a gymnast on vault is going to receive a deduction for possibly falling AND going out of bounds, he has absolutely no incentive to try to save the landing ... he would just take the 0.5 deduction by falling and go along his merry way. I don't know why the rule is different on floor exercise, but I'm rather confident about the maximum landing deduction on vault.

JC, As for Khorkina ... well, as a taller gymnast, vault is a difficult event because it's all about power and flipping/twisting as fast as you possibly can. Her vault is very difficult ... it's valued at a 9.9, and I'm guessing that she utilizes the crash and burn view of things.

What I mean by that is ... she's going to have a tough time vaulting anyways, so why not attempt a difficult vault and go for broke. When she hits it, she'll score very well and if she misses ... as she did at the European Championships this year ... she'll deal with the consequences from there. She's always short on the vault ... she either lands on her knees or she barely lands on her feet ... but I really can't think of another style of vault that would be good for her. Tsukahara's (where you do a 1/2 turn onto the board) and front handspring entries require a lot of power, which she's lacking ... so, she's going to have to go with a Yurchenko (a roundoff onto the board, backhandspring onto the horse) style of vault. I'm guessing that by using the 1/2 turn onto the horse, she's able to get more height from the vault. *shrug* She used to perform a Yurchenko double full (A double twist off of the horse for the lay-person), but it looked even worse than her current vault. *shrug*

batboy, you have a good point ... but I'm not one for sappy posts about how someone triumphs over adversity or congratulating someone for their accomplishments. If someone has a question about the scoring, one where I feel like I can contribute something to the discussion, I'm going to comment about that. *shrug* No offense intended at all, but I get somewhat annoyed when we're having a technical discussion about a tennis match or a gymnastics meet and all of the sudden, someone feels the need to "criticize" (I can't think of a better word, I'm sorry) other posters for not properly congratulating the athletes for their accomplishments. (This would happen quite frequently in the tennis threads which I now avoid.)

I'm sure that everyone in this thread is proud of Paul's accomplishments, we just don't feel the need to voice those opinions when there are technical issues that certain posters would like to understand. Again, no offense intended at all ... but after seeing this type of post hundreds of times on the tennis threads, it gets rather frustrating.

Nick

[ August 19, 2004, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: The_Hammerman ]

Nick, no offense taken. I wasn't saying everyone has to gush over Paul's performance and put countless posts on it. And I know there were a few posts (I see you BillSF ), I was just making an observation that it seemed to be overly emphasis on the scoring, and not so much on the skill, the talent, the performance, etc. that makes the overall routine and makes the overall watching of the sport exciting. Sure, we get tied up with the scoring because sometimes it seems confusing, but there's other elements of watching the sport that makes it worth talking about, like Hamm's attempts at blind landings or his amazing height in the releases (three in a row!).

Anywho, I guess I've gushed enough for everyone. But Nick, I have to say I really do enjoy your insights on the scoring, it definitely does help me appreciate the sport more.

One of the funniest things I've ever heard involved the Sydney Olympics, where John Tesh (nope, not making this one up) was calling the action with Tim Daggett and Elfi Schlegl. Someone would stick a landing, and Tesh would yell, "Wasn't that a wonderful program, Elfi", and she'd be left to say, "Umm....well, no...."

About a dozen times, he gushed over a performance, and she and Tim would be left to explain to him that no, it's not good when the gymnast falls off the high bar/balance beam, even if they DO happen to stick the landing. Makes you wonder where they find these broadcast teams....

Being about a foot and a half taller than most of the gymnists, and not being able to do a pullup, much less anything that they do, I was fascinated and amazed by ALL the athletes last night. I mean, I don't think I could jump up on the damn vault and then land on my feet. The rings are especially amazing to me, to be able to do handstands on movable objects, damn. And of course I always thought short, smooth, muscular guys were cute.

And I am with CPT Doom, I don't really understand the scoring. The main thing I could pick up from watching is that you do better when you are confident, any break or tentativeness causes mistakes. But I really don't understand how, if there are 5 events, and there are guys that don't make major mistakes and still perform at high skill levels, like the Koreans, and one guy falls on his ass on one of the events, how can he win? I guess I am used to team sports that aren't judged.

Now I am not criticizing Hamm, what he did was unbelievable, I am thrilled he won, I would be glad to show him in person how much I appreciated his routine wink and his ability to focus after such a mistake was the most impressive part of his comeback, but he practically sat in a judge's lap at the end of the vault.

Sexy Alexy is indeed there, looking VERY tanned. The commentators said he'd been working on that quite a bit, but not on his routines, apparently. There was a brief clip a couple of nights ago where they showed him on p-bars. He landed funny on one of his hands and dislocated his middle finger, causing it to stick out at a right angle at the second joint. He ran over to his coach, who grabbed it and snapped it back into place. YIKES!! eek!

willyboy ... the gymnast who injured himself on the parallel bars was not Nemov, rather Golotsutskov ... a VERY hot Russian gymnast. (IMO, more attractive than Nemov, but different strokes for different folks.)

Nemov, due to recent injuries, has decided not to compete in the all-around, rather as an event specialist. Given the new 6-3-3 format, the all-around competition, while still important, has lost some luster. He has a chance at a final Olympic medal in a few days during the Men's High Bar event final.

Nick

Thanks for the correction. Any idea if they're going to do the crowd-pleasing exhibition thing after the awards are all handed out? (please, please, please) I seem to recall Nemov doing some routine shirtless in Sydney.

[quote]batboy
Nick [/qb][/quote]Nick, no offense taken. I wasn't saying everyone has to gush over Paul's performance and put countless posts on it. And I know there were a few posts (I see you BillSF ) [/QB][/QUOTE]

I just can't help myself!
wink

Hey, I wait for four years to watch Olympic gymnasts from all around the world. It's my favorite event of the entire program. And the eye candy is one major factor in the enjoyment of it. For chrissakes, these are the best athletes in the world and part of the gymnastic sport is the effect that the exercises have on the men's bodies. Such a natural, masculine shape just can't be ignored. You just don't see these kinds of bodies often (well, at least I don't ).

So, If I want to drool over Marian Dragolescu or Paul Hamm, I will do so with impunity. eek!

This board is just for fun anyway, huh?

According to this schedule there's a Gymnastic Gala on Tuesday, August 24. Should make it on to NBC that night!

You might want to consider the travelling show which might be coming to a town near you. Seems like the tour starts immediately after the OG have ended.

Wah wah wah wah wahhhhhhhh...

Koreans Appeal Men's All-Around Gymnastics Results

ATHENS, Aug 20 - The Olympic men's all-round results are being re-examined by the governing body of gymnastics after the South Koreans launched a protest over the scores of Kim Dae-eun and Yang Tae-young.

"It has been decided that the FIG will proceed to the immediate analysis of the men's all-round competition," world gymnastics federation (FIG) president Bruno Grandi said in a statement on Friday.

"In the case that judging errors have occurred, appropriate steps will be made immediately."

Paul Hamm became the first American man to win the individual crown on Wednesday but the South Koreans believe Kim and Yang, who finished second and third respectively, were not credited with the scores they deserved.

Although the FIG refused to reveal which scores the South Koreans were protesting against, an unnamed source said it was likely to be for their vaults.

Both were awarded higher marks on the apparatus during qualifying than they received in the final.

I don't know what the Koreans are all upset about. If anyone has anything to be upset about in terms of the value of his starting score, that should be Blaine Wilson in the early rounds of the team competition. A judge tells him his routine that he's practiced for years won't get the same value as before???!! Ha! Now that's unfair. But I don't see the Americans filing any appeals (or maybe they're just waiting for the Olympics to end?)

Thanks! I can just imagine NBC editing the hell out of it, so I think I'll check CBUT's coverage that day for the same event. (Although, come to think of it, there weren't any Canadians in gymnastics this year, were there?)

I haven't seen much coverage at all about the South Koreans' protest about Paul Hamm's score winning the gold. It doesn't look like a very good chance it will be reversed.

Apparently, the protest is not of Hamm's score, but of the bronze medalists. Apparently, his high bar routine was given a start value of 10.0 in the team event, but only 9.9 in the all-around competition. There's an article on it here

Well, that looks like a very valid complaint on the part of the South Koreans. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how the Olympic judges rule on all of this. So many complexities in gymnastics scoring. Just not as simple as someone winning by .132 seconds on a sophisticated clock!

I love watching men's gymnastics, but BillSF nailed it: it's the fact that it's a subjective panel of judges instead of an objective clock (yes, I know refs play a part in baseball, football etc.) that kind of takes a little lustre away from it for me (see also: figure skating in the Winter Olympics). Of course, seeing the Romanian Ioan Suciu and one of the most gorgeous I've ever seen, a Ukranian gymnast who's name I can't remember, make up for that...

I was reading somewhere, MSNBC I think, that the South Korean gymnast even admitted he made some mistakes on the bars that probably wouldn't have made a difference. The worst case scenario would be Hamm having to share the title. That I think would be the most diplomatic thing to do. Remember the 2002 Winter Games? the Canadian couple and the Russian couple ended up sharing the gold medal podium. That would be the worst case scenario. The best case scenario, from the U.S. point of view I imagine, would be nothing would be done but I imagine some sanctions would be applied to the judges before Monday's apparatus finals. Even if Hamm had to share, I don't think that would diminish his accompolishments but would make the South Koreans look bitter and sore. You know, noone's pointed this out yet so I'll say it, what's to stop Sventlana Khorkina from starting her own appeal about her vault score? She'll make it seem as if the judges were against her in the first place. I think the Gymnastic panel should nip this in the bud before everyone starts complaining about not liking the results.

Holy cow! Three judges that used the wrong start value for the South Korean have been suspended
No indication from the article about whether they will change the result.

As far as Khorkina challenging her vault--I don't see it happening. This particular challenge works because there's an inconsistency in the start value, which is theoretically objective. As long as they gave her the 9.9 start value and can justify the deductions, she has no case. Given that the judges discussed her result, they must have concluded the form in the air wasn't strong enough for a higher score (Nick--care to comment?). It's worth mentioning that they've been pretty harsh on judging vault all week--that 9.462 was the highest score of the night and Khorkina would have needed a 9.587 to tie for the gold. That doesn't sound that high, but only two gymnasts have gotten a score that high all week.

While I don't doubt that Tim and Elfie know their stuff, I couldn't help thinking that the diving commentator really helps you understand the scoring a lot more. Of course, she also talks non-stop during both the dive and the replay, which probably annoys some viewers.

Addendum: the scoring results stand despite the mistake. Apparently, FIG rules do not allow them to correct judging errors.

[ August 21, 2004, 06:26 AM: Message edited by: JC ]

I just reading msnbc that some of the judges will be suspended but the results and scoring will not be changed. I figured as much with the event finals approaching. I think the judging on the event finals will probably be a bit more diligent. I actually thought that he would end up sharing the title just like what happened in Salt Lake City but apparently that's not the case. I guess the South Korean officials should have stated their case sooner rather than later but now it's too late. Ah well. I'm glad Hamm will keep his gold because I still think he deserved it.

Reading more about the Korean controversy, I have to say I'm siding with the Korean delegation. I mean, the error was not on a 'judgement' call, it was a factual error. It's not like a bad call in football (as was suggested by the FIG spokesman), it's more like the judges making one runner run 101m and the other run 100m.

Judging the routine out of 9.9 instead of 10 was
not something that was left up to the discretion of the judges. Now you could say that if the other judges knew they were marking the program out of 10 instead of 9.9 they might have down-graded the gymnast differently. That's possible. So to add .1 to his score may not be accurate, either.

Maybe they should just have a do-over. wink

------------

From International Gymnast:

One can understand the Korean discontent. Not only was their athlete shafted, with the gold going to an American, but the supervisor of the event scoring was also an American.

[ August 21, 2004, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: canmark ]

Actually, if only three judges used the erroneous start value, he would probably gain only 0.05, not 0.1. I'm assuming his lowest scoring judge would be one of those with the lower start value, so only two of those would be included among the four scores. 0.05 would actually place him in a tie with Paul Hamm, rather than a clear #1.

Hamm loses but wins:
I don't see how they can make the \"Well, we screwed up but Hamm will keep the gold anyways\" argument. It probably comes down to this:
*Sigh* What a drag that such a great comeback is going to probably be tainted by this.

No, what happens is that there are 3 "A" judges who determine what the routine is to be scored out of (Start Value), and then 6 "B" judges who give the marks for performance. The "B" judges marks were based on the faulty 9.9 Start Value given by the "A" judges. (There are actually 2 "A" judges, plus the event supervisor--who was American--and who authorised the 9.9.) And thus all 6 marks were based on the faulty start value.

[ August 21, 2004, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: canmark ]

Oh. I misunderstood the way it works. Thanks for the explanation.

I was reading somewhere, AOL I think, about the Hamm controversy and some idiots have been writing a lot of homophobic shit about him. A lot of these ignorant people are saying stuff like 'he must be gay because he looks like one' or something like that. I'm afraid stuff like this is gonna worst before it gets better. I'll be glad when the gymnastics competition wraps up.

I wish you could give me a link to some of that homophobic crap about Hamm. I'll give them a piece of my mind.

It's so unfortunate that there's all this controversy about the all-around. In my mind, Hamm was clearly the winner despite the tragic vault. I just didn't think the South Koreans exhibited the same degree of artistry and professionalism that Hamm showed. His parallel and high bar were breathtaking. I can't recall any events from the South Koreans that I would call "breathtaking". Just my opinion.

Anyway, it all seems to be dust under the rug now. On to the cool individual events.

Thanks billsf. Unfortunately, I'm not very computer savvy to create a link but I did give them a piece of my mind. It's unfortunate that from controversy like this, some ignorant people have to start ranting about something that doesn't have anything to do with the Games. It wasn't just Hamm they were ridiculing, it was also Ian Thorpe. I gladly pointed out to them that he has won over several Olympic golds with records to accompany them! I guess when stories like this come up, you and I know there will always be jerks out there who just want to start something. I also agree that I can't wait for the event finals. I think Hamm will regain some of his luster with some individual medals on the events. Good Luck to Him!!!

He shouldn't give the medal back. They've already had the medal ceremony. I think the decision was appropriate to reprimand and suspend the judges but what's done is done.

Hamm obviously had an amazing bar routine, but I don't believe a storybook performance at the last spot proves anything. I'm not so sentimental.

[ August 21, 2004, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: savvy ]

Well, as for causing bruised, they do. A lot. The bars aren't padded at all. I think they're made out of some sort of fiberglass, but some are wood. Chalk helps. (been in gymnastics since sophomore year in high school) You just get conditioned to the pain it causes and build up a callouse.

if Hamm had tested positive for steroids, he would have forfeited his medals. In any other event, a positive drug sample yields a change AFTER THE FACT.
How is this chasnging of the finish after the competition any different from changing the results for a gold medal that was NOT deserved?

For the judges to say, "oops! we made a mistake. But so sorry. You really did win the gold, But just settle for something less. ok?" .... How is that fair to the gymnast who in fact DID come in first? and if you guys can put aside your nationalistic feelings.... what would your reaction be had Hamm received silver when in fact he should have had gold? and it was the judges fault? Would you say, ".... well... too bad. But it's done."

With all due respect, ung, Hamm's Olympic title isn't being challenged because he's used drugs(maybe helium but that's beside the point!) but because of a human error that was beyond his, or any other gymnast's control. As for your point about if it was the other way around, I personally feel at this moment that the most diplomatic thing to do would be for Hamm and the Korean gymnast to both have their gold medals, just how they handled the Salt Lake City fiasco. While some critics questioned that, I feel that kept the spirit of Olympics because it is about unity and comradery. That's just my opinion mind you. Still, it would be interesting to see what anyone else here thinks. And yes, I am staying up late because I work during the day and I am watching late night coverage!!

Yeah, I'm going to have to chime in and say that Marian Dragulescu is one of the more attractive gymnasts at the Games. I first saw him doing his floor excercise, and I immediately said "Holy Christ, he's freaking hot!" And talented too. His vault scored the highest score out of anyone else. And he has all sorts of championships in Europe.

Terry, I think you're right. When a gold medal has been awarded by mistake due to a judging error, that's what's been done. A similar situation happened in Barcelona. One of the judges in the synchronized swimming pulled the wrong card, giving Sylvie Frechette an 8.7 instead of a 9.7, and costing her the gold medal. After appeals (it took over a year), she eventually was given a gold medal, but Kristin Babb-Sprague was not stripped of hers.

According to ESPN, US officials say they will consider sharing the gold.

I think this is fair. The error was not a judgement call--it was not in how 'artistic' the performance was. It was factual, mathematical. They "A" judges just added up the elements incorrectly. And, like the Sylvie Frechette case, mentioned above by JC, it's a decision that can be changed after the fact.

I suppose, though, that an argument could be made that had the correct mark been presented at the time, that would have affected the standings going into the final rotation, and Hamm and Young may have performed differently in their final aparatus knowing they were ahead/behind by a different amount. Sharing the gold medal seems fair.

JC, I remember that synchronized swimming event where I believe it was a Chinese judge who tried to explain she punched in the score wrong but since there were no immediate translators available at the time, the results could not be changed. On that case, I was surprised how long it took for the officials to act upon that. I remember going to Winnipeg later that year and my cousins teasing about that, saying we cheated Canada out of a gold medal! Just an FYI to everyone but the Korean gymnast in question is not competing in the bars event on Monday. Perhaps he's still bitter. You know, because this is in regards to medal standings, how come noone has asked this particular gymnast how he feels about it? He should at least be given the option of pursuing it because it his award, not his trainers or coach. If he feels he should be entitled to share the title, so be it. If he doesn't want to pursue it, then the whole matter should just be dropped. I imagine he's probably saying wait til the World Championships so he can prove himself.