Team USA finalizes roster:

Coach: Larry Brown

Tim Duncan
Allen Iverson
Carmelo Anthony
LeBron James
Carlos Boozer
Richard Jefferson
Amare Stoudamire
Shawn Marion
Dwayne Wade
Lamar Odom
Emeka Okafor
Stephon Marbury

Most watchable for me: Richard Jefferson and Emeka Okafor.

Toughest competition: Maybe Serbia and Montenegro. Lots of NBA'ers and a deep need for retribution in the eyes of the world.

Teams competing:

Men: Angola, Argentina, Australia, China, Greece, Italy, Lithuania, New Zealand, Puerto Rico, Serbia and Montenegro, Spain, and the USA

Women: Russia, Nigeria, Japan, Greece, Australia, Brazil,USA, China, Spain, Czech Republic, Korea and New Zealand

Did I hear that Allen Iverson has been named team captain? WTF? Isn't this the guy who doesn't want to practice? How does he get named captain?

He's co-captain with Tim Duncan. Boggles the mind, doesn't it? And yet he seems to take the Olympics and playing for his country very seriously -- for one thing, he said he never considered dropping out due to possible terrorism or anything else.

[ July 29, 2004, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]

Great co-captain decision! For being late for a team meeting, Allen Iverson, Amare Stoudamire and LeBron James were benched by coach Larry Brown for an exhibition game between the U.S. team and Puerto Rico in Jacksonville.

Iverson was upset because he says he was no more than 5 minutes late. James was surprised because he said he was between 5-10 minutes late. Brown was upset because they announced the suspensions over the loudspeakers to the crowd, causing them to start booing like mad. Oh, what a world! wink

And now the team has suffered its worst loss since pros started competing for the national team in 1992. Italy pounded the US team 95-78. Next up on the European tour is Germany (Dirk Nowitzki), which just recently beat the Italians.

Heard a sports-talk host a few minutes ago saying he hopes the USA does NOT win the gold. He feels that it's just one group of NBA players against another and it's more about endorsements than patriotism. It reminded me of the first Dream Team and how some of them wore their warmups inside out or covered up the manufacturer logo because it wasn't from the manufacture THEY endorse.

I think they will win the gold and learn some lessons along the way, likr today. I have no idea what their motivations were for playing, but the endorsement angle doesn't seem like a big one to me. Anyway, the Italians set picks and passed the ball better as a team. They did have some lucky shots at important times, too. The US game has moved more away front the team game in the last 10+ years- that's why I liked Detroit's win over LA, although even they aren't great passers. The stand around and wait for someone to take someone one on one game took a hit today! Hooray! A turning point in the game may have been Lebron's obvious travel the stupid Bill Walton was oblivious, too, playing right into the referee conspiracy theory without having seen or looked at the play!

I think team USA took the Italians for granted. I hope under Larry Brown they will develop a defensive mentality instead of a freewheeling shootem up. For team USA, these exhibition games are a time for developing a system and getting used to playing with each other. Many of the other teams have had most of their players playing together for a longer time.

That being said, I think the gap has narrowed considerably between USA and the rest of the world in terms of talent. It would not be a shock if someone else won the gold this time.

A pro player travelled! Holy Shit Bat Man!

Yeah! Big surprise. This was blatant though and everybody for the US, including Walton, started crying. I was obviously ticked off as I banged send as soon as I finished- big time typos- how embarrassing!

Ok, I saw the play on replay and he did walk. In defense of the whining, though, I have played international rules and they are SOOOO lenient on traveling, especially after picking up the dribble. My god, it is so frustrating to play defense, stop a drive, and then the guy takes what seems to be 3 steps after stopping and they don't call a walk.

I think the NBA boys will pull it together and win the gold. But they have to play as a team, the replays I saw didn't show any cohesiveness. If anyone can pull the primadonnas together it is Larry Brown, but I don't envy his job. One problem will be playing time, all these guys are used to playing 3/4 of the game, and each will feel dissed if he doesn't get to play much of the game. But to get in the flow, especially for the best players, they have to play a good portion of the game. The best of the best play their best basketball in the 4th quarter, not the 1st, but to get there they have to play most of the game.

The U.S. narrowly defeated Germany today 80-77. Dirk Nowitski tied it up with 3 seconds to go on a 3-pointer, but then Iverson hit a buzzer-beater from just over half court to win.

[ August 04, 2004, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: canmark ]

Germany didn't even qualify for the Olympic tournament and the US just squeaks by. After the win, they were celebrating like the US hockey team that beat the Soviet Union in 1980. Kind of sad and more than a little ominous I think.

Yao Ming to carry the flag for China in the Olympics. He will, obviously, lead the Chinese team in basketball. The Chinese team is, interestingly, coached by Del Harris, assistant coach to the Mavs and formerly head coach of the Lakers.

I guess since canmark used this thread to mention Yao (Yo!) carrying the flag for China, then this is the place to celebrate Philly's own Dawn Staley of the women's basketball team, as she was selected to be the U.S. flag bearer in the opening ceremonies.

Dawn's Early Light

LET'S GO LITHUANIA!

GOLD MEDAL TO MAKE ME PROUD BOYS!

Puerto Rico has a 22 point lead at halftime against the US in the opening game for both teams. The US beat PR by 25 a couple weeks ago. Uh oh! eek!

Ummm if I'm not mistaken, when the U.S. slaughtered Puerto Rico a few weeks ago, that was the game that Lebron James, Allen Iverson and someone else was suspended.

Great waking up to watch Argentina beat Serbia/Montenegro in hoops this Sunday morning. But then falling asleep to images of the mens' gymnastics wasn't too bad either. And how totally cool was Bravo's broadcast of the sailing events? NBC looks to be doing a pretty good job!

Further Oly-TV remblings: Is it just me, or does Bob Costas look a little unhappy or nervous over something? I hope he doesn't have any health problems, but that's the first thing I saw in his eyes when he came on screen. And Jim Lampley looking a little long in the tooth! Finally, WHO is that androgynous woman sportscaster with the deep voice, whom I think is a transplant from ESPN, where she used to do the Division II NCAA games. I haven't been put thru such a gender bender since "It's Pat!" But what really worries me: I find her intriguingly attractive! Doctor? eek!

What I wrote on the amazing Argentina-Serbia/Montenegro game:

Serbia and Montenegro played Argentina in a preliminary men's basketball game that was as good as any you'll ever see in an NCAA or NBA final. The Serbs ralled back from 12 down in the second half to take a late 3-point lead. Argentina tied in on a basket and free throw by Manu Ginobli, a star for the San Antonio Spurs (and for our money one of the hottest guys in the NBA).

Serbia took an 82-81 on a free throw with 3.8 seconds to go and the Argentines had to drive the length of the court without a timeout. The ball wound up in Ginobli's hands as he was driving toward the basket. Off balance and falling backwards, he threw up about a 12-foot bank shot that dropped in as the clock struck zero and Argentina had an 83-82 win.

The Argentine coach pulled his best Jim Valvano, running and jumping around looking for someone to hug. Ginobli lay on the ground, face down, armns extended in exhaustion and triumph. His teammates piled on top of him, with at least three of them reaching down, grabbing him by the head and kissing him. It was an awesome moment. When asked after what the plan for the final shot was, Ginobli answered: "There was no plan." It was sport at its best.

Argentina players pile on Manu

The last shot

Wow illini I think you're right. I hadn't thought about that. The third suspension was for Amare Stoudemire.

By the way, Puerrto Rico has 2 NBA players-Carlos Arroyo and Daniel Santiago. And they areb pounding Team USA. Go figure!

Puerto Rico wins by 19...........92-73.


Up next they get to play Greece (which I can't imagine is very good.....but then again, Puerto Rico barely made it too)......in front of a sold-out crowd.

Great game by Carlos Arroyo and Team Puerto Rico. Team USA: yikes!

Jim, thanks for the write-up on this. Missed the game but this was a good recall on it. I agree on Ginobli. So glad I bought season tiks to the Spurs this year. Now if Team USA would just make something happen. I hope people don't discount the team just because Shaq and Kobe and others aren't there. Unlike other years when they couldn't go because of the amateur rule, they could have been there this year.

When the US soccer team won some stunning games at the last World Cup, I had several European friends tell me that they did not want the US to win because it was "their (European) game". After watching the US basketball team's performance today, I can finally understand how they felt when their European soccer squads lost to us.

Poor Ginobili looks like he'd rather be anywhere else but under a pile of sweaty guys.

Straight boys sure miss out on half the fun. wink

(Palms on my cheeks, jaw dropped to the floor, whispery voice, in complete shock.)

Oh my God! Did we win? eek! :cool:

I know, I know, this is only the first (Olympic) game (just let me rejoice while it lasts )--not counting the exhibition game in which the US won by 25 points--, but WHAT A GREAT ONE!!

Carlos Arroyo just played his ass off! He knows, as well as the others who are in the NBA (Danny Santiago [Bucks], Peter-John Ramos [Wizards]), that, although he's already Utah Jazz's new Point Guard (big shoes to fill after John Stockton), he's being closely watched.

The Puerto Rican basketball team has a tendency to rest on its laurels and lose games after a win, as opposed to US teams, who seem to quickly, proverbially "rise from the ashes," so it'll be interesting to see what happens. But I could be proven wrong this time...

Whatever the outcome, it was great seeing the two teams joining hands after the game.

Saw a bit of the end of the game. Doug Collins was incredulous that the international 3-point line is little over 20 ft, a good bit closer to the net than the NBA, yet the USA couldn't hit 3-pointers.

Saw both the Argentina-Serbia/Montenegro game and the USA-Puerto Rico game. The first was very exciting and lived up to what I expect in Olypmic competition. Pretty boy Ginobili came through when he had to. I wish I was in that pile-up at the end of the game.

The second game was uh.. oh.. an atrocity eek! Just who are those so-called NBA All-stars that they couldn't make a jump shot to save their lives. This team lacks any killer instinct. Maybe now we know the real reason the other USA NBA players didn't want to play, fear of getting their butts kicked.

philly, the real reason they declined is because they don't get paid. If you think that they don't want to lose.......how many guys on the US Olympic team have won an NBA Championship?

On a side note, there's been a couple articles written about the selection of players.......and how the roster really makes no sense (there's a logjam at small forward) and that they just took the marketable players (i.e. young guys.....Okafer hasn't even played a single game in the NBA!).......and what do you think they are marketing? The NBA.

I seriously don't understand the roster of the U.S. team either. They would have lost today to a top NCAA college team.

It seems that the honor of playing for the Olympics may have been... in lieu of being "too tired" for the upcoming season.

I say make the next team up with hungry college players looking for both a learning experience and honor of playing for the USA.

Isn't part of the problem that Olympic style of basketball differs from what is played in the NBA. These NBA-ers have become used to primarily playing one-on-one style ball, while in the Olympics it really is a team game with ball movement, picks, running, and passing. We still see that in the college game but a lot of the US team have little--if any--college experience and are unfamiliar with the team game. I like the idea of forming an Olympics squad drawn from college and the developmental league about six months prior to the Games and let them meld together and focus on team skills.

Of course, this squad will play much better in their next game.

~Adam

In other basketball games, Spain (led by Pau Gasol's 21 points and 10 boards) soundly defeated China (Yao Ming scored 12 points and 8 boards) 83-58. Del Harris is coach of the Chinese team.

---------------

Meanwhile, the real U.S. dream team may be the women, led by the likes of Lisa Leslie and Sheryl Swoops. They won their first game over New Zealand 99-47.

I couldn't agree with you more, kick....while I would obviously prefer that this U.S. team NOT lose in Athens if the selection of this year's squad results in the USOC returning to true amateurs (i.e., college players) then perhaps there will be a silver lining to what now appears to be a difficult challenge for Larry Brown.

What made our 1980 "Miracle on Ice" hockey team so memorable was not only that they were tremendous underdogs but that they were a team of college kids who genuinely cared about representing their country and, as sappy as it sounds, symbolized what the Olympics are supposed to be all about....more importantly, the fact that those 20 players were able to build team chemistry from traveling together and playing nearly 70 "exhibition games" over a span six months prior to the Lake Placid games had a MAJOR influence upon that team winning the gold medal....as with professional athletes today, team chemistry and getting away from the "star system" is more critical now than ever and I, for one, am not the least bit surprised that a group of all-stars assembled just a few weeks ago are getting beaten by international squads that have been playing together for months (if not years, in some instances) made up of players who know the tendencies, personalites, and strengths and weaknesses of their teammates better than they do members of their own family.

I know there are many obvious differences between Olympic hockey and basketball making it difficult to draw a fair comparison between the two but the youthful exuberance and enthusiasm that TRUE amatuer athletes possess (along with their genuine desire to win, which unfortunately is lacking in many of the multi-millionaires who now make up our rosters in BOTH basketball and hockey) takes away a lot of the enjoyment from watching this Olympic event, at least for me, which is in sharp contrast to the excitement and emotion that is so clearly evident in virtually all other venues.

Whether Larry Brown's team is able to recover and win the gold medal or not (which I would love to see them achieve) I certainly hope that this is the last Olympiad where NBA players make up the roster....in truth, I would rather see a team of college kids who are giving 110% effort "lose" than watch a group of multi-millionaires who are more concerned about their personal marketing appeal than what is in the best interests of their team AND the country that they are there to represent achieve individual "success".

~Joe

[ August 15, 2004, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

OK, it's now clear what we have to do. Puerto Rico has to be made the 51st state just so they can't embarrass us in international athletics any more.

I realize that the rest of the world has done a lot of catching up with the Americans when it comes to playing basketball, but 35% shooting is a very, very bad joke.

Well the NBA is certainly making the best of the situation.

They stand to benefit if this increases the fan base beyond the current declining demographic.

With only five players to transport, insure and worry about, going truly international might be easier than for the other major USA team sports.

The problem with sending a team of college kids is that other nations aren't sending teams of college kids.

So when the USA loses, there will be an uproar from those who insist that the USA should win at all costs. The USA never lost in Olympic play except for the tainted 1972 game...until 1988. That led to the Dream Team.

I for one don't think college kids would help the situation, the problem is not the attitude of the players there, it is the fact that the NBA has screwed itself by stressing players that run, jump, play an individual style, and couldn't hit a 17 foot jumpshot, much less a 20 footer. It is great marketing, but bad basketball, at least when teams can play zone, pack it in, and our big men and slasher-type players are thwarted by 2 and 3 people guarding them. The way to beat a zone is to pass and shoot jumpshots, and the team was 3-24 behind the 3-point line. Where are the shooters on the team? Where are the passers? Everyone can dunk, but if the team is to win gold, or any medal for that matter, the team is going to have to have at least 2 or 3 players who can give up the drive and shoot a 20-foot jumpshot.

Our game is different than the international game, and from the looks of it, maybe they have chosen a better way, one that relies on shooting and passing and teamwork instead of dunking and driving and individuality.

To me, its seems as if USA Basketball (Men's) has lost it's sense of purpose.

The Dream Teams were created to let the rest of the world know that we send our best and that we will win because we are the best.

Not to fault just the U.S. players because other countries had players turn down the Olympics (I think they mentioned some for Serbia). But the NBA players in general are acting SPOILED and that they have lost the honorable part of representing their country more than themselves.

I think most of the U.S. Mens B-Ball will be more upset that they themselves don't win rather than being disappointed for their fans.

I love watching the other countries play- that Serbia/Argentina game was great with a terrific ending.

bballrob is right......it's exactly how the U.S. teaches basketball these days. It's literally streetball. And that's not the best counter against a team that plays as a team and plays with the fundamentals of basketball.


Of course this is a big time generalization........there are plenty of players out there who don't play like this, even in the NBA. But the US did a horrible job selecting it's team......worrying about putting the upcoming superstars instead of what the team needed.......TEAM players. I mean, Allen Iverson is the co-CAPTAIN.......he's the epitome of 1 on 1 basketball and not team basketball.

What? No Magic Johnson's or Walt Frazier's?

Maybe another thing they lacked was leadership. A good passer with contained ego would go a long way to toward bringing out the natural talent of these young prima donnas.

They're good players, they just need someone to show them what hard work and unselfishness look like. And someone they all respect. Brown has to share some of the blame for the player choice.

[ August 17, 2004, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]

And it didn't last. See? What did I tell you? We just can't win two games in a row, can we? Lithuania beat Puerto Rico 98-90. I'm not surprised, though, it's always the same story.

I just saw the results on Yahoo!, but there'll be a repeat tonight, so I'll be watching.

[ August 17, 2004, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: noumenon ]

Maybe it'll cause him to make shots?

The Dream (or should that be Nightmare?) Team defeated Greece 77-71, although the Greeks shot 44% from the field to the Americans' 40%. Next up: Australia, Lithuania, Angola.

China defeated New Zealand 69-62, Serbia over Italy 74-72, Spain over Argentia 87-76.

I'm all for the whole "a win is a win is a win" attitude, and winning the gold medal by one point makes you no less a gold medalist thean winning it by 20 points.

Howerver, four points over the Greeks, particularly after losing to the Puerto Ricans, further demonstrates a fundamental cancer at the center of this team. Right now, I'm leaning toward the ultimate goats of this situation being the players that stayed home. I briefly saw a graphic indicating that the players in Athens are some of the lowest percentage shooters in the NBA (at least among NBA players who could be considered elite in the first place). There's no excuse for America not being represented by its best. I can understand former Olympians stepping aside to give other people a chance to participate, but so many of our best just chose not to show up. Unfortunately, it now appears that some of those who chose not to show up are currently in Athens.

jqueer, yes you're right that there aren't shooters on this team. But you know what, they are the 'stars' of the NBA. There were plenty of other NBA players that could have been invited that are shooters, team players, etc......that weren't cause they weren't big names.

The U.S. team is all about marketing. I mean, just look at the Opening Ceremonies outfits.....go on NBC.com and amazingly you can buy the outfits they wore (who on earth would buy those is another thread). If they wore suits or were dressy like most other countries, do you think it's a coincidence that you can't sell those?

Lithuania, 2-0

Frank Deford of SI summed it up best - Practice. He commented on NPR that the other teams are big on practice - practice of fundamentals, practice of plays, just plain old practice. Like you said, USA is a bunch of stars that just play game on pure athletic talent. Imagine if they had really worked on the game instead of just playing it.