Guess what? I don't know squat about Ice Dancing. But more important, I think, is that it's not really a sport. Yes, it requires tremendous athleticism and years of training, and yes, it is a competition. But couldn't you say the same of ballet or ballroom dancing competitions? Especially since no one seems to be able to figure out, much less agree upon, the judging? All the skating experts say that the best true skaters are ice dancers because it is the most demanding as far as footwork, edging, and carriage. Yeah, I totally agree, but it still doesn't seem like a sport to me.

I do watch it every once in a while though. I'm rooting for Bourne & Kraatz, mostly because they're underdogs. I'm not crazy about the Italians, Fusar-Poli & Margaglio, but I can't really say why because, like I said, I don't know squat about the (ahem) sport. As for guy-watching, the only skater of note is Gwendal (of Anissina & Peizerat). I don't even like long hair (almost always a total turn-off), but this man is just beautiful.

So, does anybody out there even know anything about ice dancing? Has anybody out there even **watched** ice dancing, like, ever?

I watch Torvil and Dean. Otherwise I have no interest.

It will be interesting to see if the brouhaha over the pairs event will spill over into the Ice Dancing competition (where a judging controversy is nothing new). Will Bourne & Kratz be boxed out of the medals by the Italians, Russians, and French ("thanks" to the French judge's marks for S&B in the Pairs)? Oh the drama, oh the intrigue!

It will spill into the competition. Of that I have no doubt.

According to the Canadian papers the ice dancing results have already been determined. (Neither France nor Canada has a judge in ice dancing.) I believe it's something like this:

Gold - Italians (pres. of ISU is apparently Italian)
Silver - Russians
Bronze - French (in exchange for vote for Russians in pairs)
Fourth - Russians
Fifth - Canadians

We'll have to wait and see if it comes out like this.

I can't wait for ice dancing to start. You know the judges know that they will be watched very closely. Maybe I'm crazy, but they might try to take the heat off of themselves, and give it to Bourne and Kraatz. Just a dream, I sure. But I'd love to see it.

[quote]Originally posted by canmark:
According to the Canadian papers the ice dancing results have already been determined. (Neither France nor Canada has a judge in ice dancing.) I believe it's something like this:

Gold - Italians (pres. of ISU is apparently Italian)
Silver - Russians
Bronze - French (in exchange for vote for Russians in pairs)
Fourth - Russians
Fifth - Canadians

---

OK, that's prognostication of the fix makes absolutely no sense. In this "one hand washes the other scenario", the French pairs judge would have to place the Berezhnaya & Sikhuralidze above Sale & Pelletier (there was no French pair in the pairs competition). In exchange, the Russian ice dance judge would have to place the French pair above the Italians, and give the Russian pair 3rd at the expense of the Canadians Bourne & Kraatz. The 1-2 in ice dance is between Fusar-Poli & Margaglio (reigning world champions, but with an ISU rank of #2, and placed a miserable 4th in the recent Grand Prix Final) and Anissina & Peizerat (2000 World Champions, ISU rank of #1, and 2nd in the GPF). Why in the world would the French pairs judge "sell" her vote only to see #1 ranked Anissina & Peizerat place 3rd?

This "fix" could never get away with placing two Russian ice dance pairs in the top five because right now there aren't even two pairs in the top ten, same case with two Canadian ID pairs in the top five.

If the Russian ID judge places A&P first, F-P&M second, and B&K off the podium, then you'll probably be hearing a lot of "fix is in" outcry again. Interesting note: when Bourne & Kraatz won December's Grand Prix Final, with Anissina & Peizerat 2nd (they did make a few mistakes, one was a biggie IIRC), and the reigning world champion Fusar-Poli & Margaglio 4th, the ISU referee of the event called the judging a travesty and demanded a review. It will be very difficult for Shae-Lynn and Victor (B&K) to stand on the podium at these Games.

From The Globe and Mail (Canadian newspaper):

[quote] NBC News reported last night that the French judge announced at a routine, postcompetition judges' meeting Tuesday that she voted for the Russian pair of Elena Berezhnaia and Anton Sikharulidze because she had been pressured to do so by the French figure skating association. The French dance team of Marina Anissina and Gwendal Peizerat are medal contenders in the dance, but there isn't a French judge on the panel for that event.

The Globe reported in Tuesday's editions that the outcome of the ice-dancing competition had been predetermined, with the Canadian team of Shae-Lynn Bourne and Victor Kraatz finishing fifth. Wednesday, sources confirmed to The Globe that the ice-dancing deal also involved predetermining the pairs outcome.

The Globe reported that the deal-making allowed the Russians to win the gold and the Chinese to take the bronze in the pairs. There have been suggestions that Chinese judge Yang Jiasheng, who voted for the Russians over Ms. Salé and Mr. Pelletier, orchestrated a deal to ensure that Shen Xue and Zhao Hongbo finished third and give China its first ever Olympic medal in pairs.

---

Another report from the Globe and Mail:

[quote] Salt Lake City -- The outcome of the Olympic ice dancing competition has already been determined, sources believe, and Canadian champions Shae-Lynn Bourne and Victor Kraatz will likely be shut out of the medals.

Allegations of prejudging and deal-making have been made in the past, such as four years ago at the Nagano Games, where the nine-time Canadian champions finished fourth. This time, they are slotted for fifth place behind Italy, Russia, France and Lithuania.

Some expected a last-minute push to get the Russian ice dancers, Irina Lobacheva and Ilia Averbukh, into position for the gold ahead of Italians Barbara Fusar-Poli and Maurizio Margaglio on Friday if Elena Berezhnaia and Anton Sikharulidze of Russia hadn't won gold in the pairs event last night.

The Canadians will face trouble right from the start, when a group of judges will agree to try to force Bourne and Kraatz into fifth place after the first compulsory dance. Canada does not have a judge on the panel. The draw for judges was made three months ago and also excluded the United States and France.

---

I wonder how many times we're going to hear "Carmen" tonight. I've been sick of hearing it in figure skating since the '88 Witt/Thomas duel.

Who is the male half of the Native American ice dancing duo? He looks terrific in leather jeans, much better than any guy in sequins. His last name is something like "Chernishev," Russian-sounding, but from the US.

(later)
Peter Tchernyshev - that's his name. He's in the photo galleries under "Figure Skating." He looks like Peter Frampton. I see now that his partner, Naomi Lang, is Native American, but Tchernyshev was born in Russia. Beats me.
http://www.usolympicteam.com/

[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: twin58 ]

I loved the Americans. I loved the Lithuanians. I liked the Israelis. The Canadains were fun until the end.

The rest of the competition left me cold. I didn't enjoy it. And I miss Torvill and Dean.

Bad hair.

This is Ball Room Dancing on Ice. And although I personally find it slightly enjoyable to watch, it is NOT a sport, and has no place in the Olympics.

In an earlier post I said I couldn't wait for ice dancing to start. Now I'm glad it's over. That was the dullest competetion I had ever seen. It's pretty bad when the best performances were from the lower ranked skaters. The Lithuanians had the best routine. The Americans were awesome. The 2nd ranked Russian team were nice to watch too. But after the I struggled to stay awake, even during my favorite, Bourne and Kraatz. I was totally disappointed in the whole thing. Also is it mandatory for all the guys to have longer hair than the women?....lol

Speaking of them having longer hair, I was also wondering if there's a reason that none of them could grow a decent goatee? If you can't grow something that will show up on camera from at least 10 feet away, just shave it off. Maybe it's something about the cold air inside the rinks that stunts the growth. LOL

Cold air does not stunt the growth of a beard..didn't you ever see 'Miracle on 3th Street'? Santa leaves his beard outside the blanket, since the cold air is good for it..

Also, one of the best hockey traditions is that teammates do not shave in the playoffs until they are eliminated, and most guys look like Grizzly Adams...

I'm taking a hockey class now, maybe I should quit shaving until it's over in 8 weeks? Maybe it'll come in better.

Have fun in your class! Let us know how you're doing!

I have '5:00 shadow' seven minutes after shaving. Its criminal since I hate shaving but what can you do.

After watching the ice dancing competition, here's one observation. Why would anyone plan their program around Michael Jackson songs? I mean right off the bat, I wouldn't take the program seriously. I usually like the Canadian skaters, but I was never fond of B&K. Somehow their choice of music & choreography never "spoke" to me. The "Medley of Michael Jackson Songs" was a bad choice IMHO. And speaking of bad decisions, what the heck was up with Charles Sinek's hair? Who told him that a Mullet (and an ugly mullet at that) was a "good thing", especially for the Olympics

I'm heartbroken that the Canadians had that last-second fall. After all they've been through, after all the judging controversy, to lose it like that was so sad. It's silly, I know, but the reason I like the Canadians is that Shae-Lynn Bourne is just so pretty, that sweet, wholesome, girl-next-door kind of pretty. I thought it was very interesting to see Shae-Lynn's reaction compared to the Barbara Fusar-Poli's. When Barbara's partner fell, Barbara was distraught and couldn't stop crying. When Victor botched that last lift and caused the fall, Shae-Lynn just smiled and kissed him at the end. That's the kinda girl I could fall in love with (you know, if I were heterosexual).

You have to give them some props for having the chutzpah to behave as though the crash was planned. My first thought was, well that was a dramatic and original way to end a program! Of course, in slo-mo it was obviously a fall...but maybe they should get a special point for artistic expression for even falling expressively.

I remember seeing pairs skaters both fall in a side-by-side jump and wondering whether they should be rewarded for their excellent unison!

When was the last time 2 of the top 6 pairs in ice dancing had a fall?

As much as I like figure skating, ice dancing never did anything for me. But I watched last night figuring there MUST be something to it. I was pretty much bored silly, and it's really just TOO over the top for me. The costumes and makeup are too much for my taste, especially the fact that the men were in full makeup and often had longer hair and more hair products than the women. I did feel bad for the Canadians, who were fine until that fall at the very end. The pouty Italian woman got on my nerves, and what was with the matching Lily Munster hair coloring on the silver-winning Russians?

I don't know when I've ever seen 2 pairs fall, but I definitely remember seeing the top team or Gritcuk and Platov (actually just Platov) fall and still win the world championships.

I was unimpressed with everyone except the Lithuanian husband/wife team. I thought they skated really well and with lots of energy. It seemed kind of unfortunate that their placement did not change after the two teams in front of them each had an outright fall.

I did see that they filed a protest today for just that reason. I hope the ISU can figure this stuff out. It is starting to be a little too circus like.

I, for one, would not mind seeing the ice dancing eliminated. It seems to draw the most problems and is the least meaningful of the figure skating events.

The problem with "correcting" judges is how far back do you go? Because clearly 2002 isn't the first time it's happened.

Should Torvill and Dean or Usova and Zhulin be awarded gold medals for 1994 (My biases opinion says yes)? How about Liz Manley for 1988 or Linda Fratianne for 1980? Or the 1984 rip-off where Blumberg and Seibert were robbed or a dane bronze medal because one judge didn't like their music.

See, I'm not saying that judging shouldn't be corrected, and the Lithuanians do have a point. But if you correct one thing, it seems natural to correct more. Of course the pairs debacle opened up a whole can of worms.

Ice dancing judging has always been a joke. The free dance hardly ever changes the standings. But even without corruption, I doubt ice dancing would ever be free of controversy. It's just too hard to judge with any objectivity, except for the compulsory dances.

There's an article in the _Washington Post_ this a.m. about the situation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2002Feb19.html

>>
Officials Allege Efforts to Fix
Letters to Committee Say French, Russians Traded Votes on Pairs, Ice Dancing

By Amy Shipley
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 20, 2002; Page D01

SALT LAKE CITY, Feb. 19 -- The International Skating Union's secret investigative committee charged with looking into the figure skating judging scandal has been given three letters that allege a deal between Russian and French officials to attempt to rig the outcomes of the Olympic pairs and ice dance competitions, according to several people who have seen the letters.

Two of the letters allege that French judge Marie Reine Le Gougne said Russian officials promised her first place for the top French ice dancing team in exchange for her vote for the top Russians in the Feb. 11 pairs final, according to several people familiar with the letters. They were written by U.S. judge Jon Jackson and ISU technical committee chairwoman Sally Stapleford of Britain. Stapleford's letter was also signed by Germany's Walburga Grimm and Sweden's Britta Lindgren.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2002Feb13.html

>>
Heat Is On in Olympic Figure Skating
Referee in Pairs Final Says Judge Felt Pressure About Vote

By Amy Shipley
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, February 14, 2002; Page A01
....
With the case unresolved, figure skating moves to the dance portion of the competition on Friday with its credibility crumbling and suspicions swirling about the integrity of the sport's judges. It does not help that Ukraine judge Yuri Balkov -- who was suspended for a year after being caught on tape at the 1998 Games in Nagano relating the order of finishers in the ice dance final before it had taken place -- is here and is expected to judge the ice dancing competition. Today, Cinquanta defended Balkov's reinstatement as a judge, saying he had served his time just like an athlete suspended for using performance-enhancing drugs and was free to return to judging panels.
....
The result in Monday's pairs final is only the most recent complaint in a long list of criticisms of figure skating's system of judging. Shortly before these Games, Canadian International Olympic Committee member Dick Pound proposed that ice dancing be dropped from the Olympic program, charging that results were determined in "clandestine meetings." At the 1999 world figure skating championships, two judges were reprimanded after being caught on tape signaling to each other with their feet.
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