Alright let's make this the official figure skating thread of the 2006 Winter Olympics in Torino.

According to the Associated Press...

"Michelle Kwan wouldn't rule out a withdrawal from the Olympics after cutting short her first practice Saturday because of stiffness in her groin.

Kwan said the long plane ride and marching in the opening ceremony caused enough problems for her to skip a short program run-through one day after arriving in Turin.

She avoided answering several questions about whether she's worried about competing in her third Olympics.

But asked directly if she might drop off the U.S. team, the five-time world champion said: "I really have to pay attention to how I am feeling these days. Dropping out, it's not something I want to do, but I have to listen to what my feelings are."

This is EXACTLY why I felt Kwan should not have been granted a spot on the US Olympic team. First of all, I'm a firm believer that if you don't perform/qualify for the Olympics, you should not be given a special exemption. I don't care if you missed the National Championships (to determine who goes) with a groin injury...fact is you were injured and did not qualify. Who's to say that she would have qualified anyway? (Chances are she were but none the less). It's just frustrating to see this happen considering there are other deserving skaters who worked hard and competed at Nationals for a chance to go to the Olympics.

Enigma, I was inclined to agree with you earlier in the year when this happened. I think that the best skaters who performed in the nationals should be able to represent the U.S. But when I learned more of her situation, I was a little more sympathetic to her. A similar scenario played out twelve years ago during the Kerrigan/Harding fiasco. Kerrigan got a place on the team because of the assault that she received from Harding's husband. I don't know all the specifics but if I recall correctly, Kerrigan wasn't able to complete the required programs to qualify for the team but because of the circumstances, she was granted a spot. I know what you'll probably say, that the attack wasn't Kerrigan's fault but neither should Kwan be faulted for an injury. Personally, I think Kwan should have gone as an alternate so to keep the peace within the team.

Michelle has pulled out of the Olympics. I still agree with the committee sending her though. At her most healthy, she's our best chance at a medal, aside from the fact that Nationals is NOT a qualifying competition as mistakenly believed. But I am very proud of Michelle for being level headed enough to pull out for not feeling healthy. I have a feeling she's going to make many mores fans as well as establishing her as an absolute sweetheart.

How sad about Michelle withdrawing. Her Olympic career has really been star-crossed. But how wonderful for her that she has the internal strength and clarity of vision to withdraw on her own, and with enough time for Emily Hughes to get to Italy and get acclimated to the venue, practice, etc. Once again, Michelle brings grace and elegance to her sport. This is certainly the end of her amateur career. I'll miss her; I don't think we'll ever see her equal again.

This was very sad for me as well. Michelle is such a graceful skater who is a very wonderful champion. She deserves to leave the scene with a gold, but that will not be the outcome for her career.

Emily should have already been in Torino as the alternate for the team. Any of the skaters could have developed a problem and she would have been there in preparation for next Sunday's draw. (They actually do an official draw to determine which preliminary groups you perform in.)

I really hate the thought of Slutskaya claiming an Olympic gold. I have never really enjoyed her skating or her attitude. Michelle has basically dominated her for most of their careers. Five worlds definitely beat out all the European championships that Slutskaya has won. Yet, you would never know that to hear her talk about her ability to win at any event.

I hope Sasha skates her best and represents us well. When Michelle is healthy, there is not a skater who can do a more consistent and artistic program. She probably would have medaled in some capacity.

On another skating topic, did you watch the pairs short program last night. Despite NBC's deplorable coverage (nothing like a commercial before and after every score announcment), the skating was actually quite remarkable. Very few mistakes, and some really beautiful tricks.

I was particularly happy to see Inoue and Baldwin pull off the first ever triple axel throw in Olympic history. And it was flawless. Really nice thing to see. Unfortunately, they went early in the evening, and the judges slotted some teams above them as the evening progressed. They are in sixth place, and probably not going to medal without some things falling their way. Like literally falling -- as in the other teams.

I am glad that the new system has been laid out in the scoring aspects...

But the pairs short program seemed to have each pair ending in the same way... some form of death spiral spinning into a final stance....

Although the short program is more of a technical nuance because it has several requirements for a short period of time, I would hope that those choreographing the programs would bring more variety to them.

Very sad that Michelle had to withdraw, but it shows what a class act she is to do so in time for Hughes to make it to Italy. Michelle could have waited til closer to the competition to make up her mind. Heck, she could have skated hurt (and probably still finished in the top 10). But she knew she wouldn't be up to her standard, so she stepped back to give someone else a chance. She's not a gold medalist, but she's truly a champion.

I thought Inoue and Baldwin were slightly underscored for their program, but compared to the other pairs, I think they're about where they should be. It was great to see them do so well though... this is the best I've ever seen them skate. I really doubt a medal, but I think they really didn't have medal hopes either. If they remain 6th, I think they'll be terribly pleased.

I really can't say enough about my admiration for every aspect of Kwan's courageous and team-spirited decision to withdraw from competition now. She covered every relevant point in her NBC interviews earlier today and did so with the same style, grace and responsibility of character that others have noted. Kwan's swan song should be required viewing for EVERY athlete at EVERY level - from the most timid kid trying out for the first time, to the most arrogant pro player renegotiating a multimilliion dollar contract. Well done, Michelle, you are truly and uniquely world class!

Sometimes, there seems to be no justice in sports. Figure skating seems to have its share of heartbreaking storylines.

Michelle Kwan dominated figure skating for a decade. She has been the most consistent, elegant, beautiful skater for so long, yet "all" she has to show for it, Olympically anyway, are a silver and a bronze. Don't get me wrong, these are wonderful accomplishments, but so lacking and undemonstrative of how talented she really is, and has been for so long.

What sucks, is that on just two nights in ten years, she didn't have the best long program. In Nagano, she had a very slight jitter on one landing, and that's it. She looked conservative. But Tara Lipinsky landed all her triple jumps with flair. All roller-skating-looking-butt-ugly triple jumps (and an even uglier double axel) were landed solidly. Can't take that away from her. Michelle Kwan was, and is, a clearly superior skater. (remember when Lipinsky beat her at the worlds and nationals in her short career, Michelle had very uncharacteristic falls, when Michelle didn't stumble, like usual, Michelle always beat her). Some people argue, that if Michelle hadn't had the bad luck of an early start order, she would have beaten Lipinsky, even with the conservative, but clean skate.

And in Salt Lake, the unfortunate fall. Was she a better skater than Hughes and Slutskaya at the time? Of course, but on that one night, like from the previous Olympics, she lead after the short program, just to see it evaporate during the long program. She had the fall, and Hughes had the skate of her life.

I hope she rolls in the dough and makes a pile of money in endorsements and appearance/show fees now in professional skating. Unfortunately, she'll probably have the "best skater to not win an Olypmic gold" label attached to her. While sadly true, there's no disputing all her national and world titles and all that she's done for the sport.

I agree 100% about her being a class act. And I agree that she should be a role model for all atheletes, at all levels, and in all sports. If she were to open "The Kwan Academy of Sports Class and Grace," she should start big. Converting athletes like Terrel Owens, Ron Artest, Lleyton Hewitt, and Martina Hingis to class acts in sports would be a great start.

OK, so I'm watching our local NBC 5 news at 5:00 p.m. CST today and they're doing the Kwan story. One of WMAQ's reporters is in the Olympic Village interviewing US athletes, asking what their thoughts are on Michelle's withdrawal.

Now, I admittedly don't pay much, if any, attention to figure skating, but I was rather surprised to hear these comments from the athletes interviewed:

"Michelle didn't even deserve to be here. No one ever wants to see another athlete get hurt, but she should never have been here in the first place."

"She shouldn't have been in the Olympics. She didn't deserve it. Emily did."

"I'm sorry to hear that she is injured, but I have no sympathy for someone who should have never made the team in the first place."

I must be missing something. Why do these people feel this way? Interesting.

Thanks for posting this, MIB. I'd like to hear others' thoughts, but my own are that these athletes are speaking strictly from a sports perspective, not from a human one, even though sport is a human endeavor. They may well be right - Michelle's withdrawal might be an admission, by her at least, that they are - but their words are a little too cold for me. Maybe the context would take the edge off them, but taken alone they strike me as haughty and unforgiving.

They probably say this because a luger or curler or athlete from some other lower profile sport would never have been given such special treatment if they were injured.

Or they didn't say it at all. I'd consider the source here. Sounds like more made up claptrap from a repeat offender.

If you had recorded the news broadcast of Channel 5, you would have seen and heard it with your own eyes and ears. Face it--Michelle Kwan's not the little princess you think she is.

As explained this morning on WSCR-AM, she didn't even qualify for the Olympic team and had to petition to be allowed to go. She had to perform in front of some committee and didn't even do a triple triple (whatever that is--I don't follow figure skating), which everyone else is required to do.

The more I hear about her, the more selfish I think she was for going in the first place.

If she were truly so selfish, why did she withdraw? Like I said earlier, she could have skated hurt and probably still done better than Hughes will. But she knew she wouldn't be skating to the best of her ability like she wanted, so she decided, on her own, to let someone else have a go at it.

As for how she got on the team, you can't hold that against her. Injured athletes petition for spots on teams all the time. Some get them, some do not. But you can't fault her for trying. If anything, blame the powers that be that put her on the team. In fact, they were pretty much ready to give her carte blance to go to the games... it was Kwan that insisted on being monitored by the committee before being named to the team.

Michelle still is, and always will be, a class act and real champion.

Well, as I said, I don't follow or watch figure skating at all. I hate it. I find watching paint dry to be more exciting.

I had no background knowledge of this whole Kwan affair, which is why I posted that WMAQ news story and the comments from the athletes. I was rather shocked to hear that and thought someone here might be able to explain the rationale behind such feelings.

This morning on The Score (WSCR), they apparently explained the whole thing. Interestingly, the three morning show hosts, Mike, Anne, and Fred, all said Kwan was selfish for just going to the Olympics.

Considering I really have no interest in all this, my assessment of her could be wrong. I based it solely on what I have heard from a few sources.

I also agree that Michelle Kwan did the right thing all around. She deserved a shot of being in the Olympics, because she was injured for the national competition and because of her past success. Because there was always a chance that she would have to withdraw, Emily Hughes should have and apparently was ready in case she did withdraw. So although it didn't work out for Michelle, hopefully it will work out for Emily.

And what Munson Man said.

Ok, Kwan out - now let's get back to the sport. Since the thread was moved to Olympics, which it should be, I decided to update my last post on the figure skating (Other Sports) thread.
Tonight is the pairs long program. I hope Inoue and Baldwin can do their throw triple axel clean again. I want them to finish high enough in the field so the US can field 3 pairs at next year's World Championships. Totmiyanina / Marinin looked nearly perfect in the short program and should take the gold and everyone expects one of the Chinese paris to take the silver. I wouldn't be surprised in another Chinese pair took the bronze. Zhang / Zhang or Pang / Tong should be up there in silver contention. The men's short is tomorrow.

Originally posted in Other Sports Topics » Figure Skating 2005 - 2006 Olympic Season:
NBC Olympic Figure Skating Program Reminder
Type in your zip code and select your cable provider. Select Figure Skating and it will provide a tv schedule with local times and channels.

Breaking down the men's field
Plushenko's the clear favorite, but there are medal contenders aplenty
NBCOlympics.com sees seven men with the chance to win a medal -- or even the gold, if Plushenko were to self-destruct. A snapshot of the contenders:

THE WORLD CHAMPION: Stephane Lambiel of Switzerland.

THE WORLD SILVER MEDALIST: Jeffrey Buttle of Canada.

THE WILDCARD: Emanuel Sandhu of Canada.

THE FRENCHMAN: Brian Joubert of France.

THE AMERICAN CHAMPION: Johnny Weir of the U.S.

THE 'OTHER' TOP AMERICAN: Evan Lysacek of the U.S.

THE LATE BLOOMER: Daisuke Takahashi of Japan.
:confused:

MIB, if you don't care so much you sure are posting a lot! I'm glad radio "experts" weren't the ones responsible for making a decision. Personally, I think selfishness better fits Emily Hughes' "great news" comments about Kwan's injury, though admittedly they are just excerpts of an interview endlessly looped by NBC.

Even aside from unmatched past accomplishments, Kwan deserved a spot on the team -- if she was healthy, she had a much better chance of getting a medal than Hughes.

[ February 13, 2006, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Two-hander ]

Back to pairs, I know he's not a Led Zep fan, but what the **** was Dick Button's problem with Zhang and Zhang? They could set the ice on fire and he would make yawning noises and complain.

You're probably right but that's the problem with figure skating judging. Skaters get higher scores based on their reputations and the later they skate in the rotation. Sometimes I think the top skaters/pairs could go flying over the boards or fall face first and splatter blood all over the ice and would still finish ahead of an unknown who did a flwaless routine.

When I first heard Kwan had petitioned for a spot on the team, I also thought she was being pretty selfish. That is not because I think she is a poor skater, but because she had simply not competed enough recently to justify the petition. That was the major reason I thought she should not make the team; the other reason is mental.

Kwan is, without a doubt, one of the best skaters this country has ever produced, but I question her ability to win the gold under any circumstances. Certainly Kwan's career success cannot be questioned, but would she have won so many national and world titles if she had won the gold medal in 1998? Probably not. It was her quest for the gold that kept her in competition all those years. And it has long been acknowledged that there are, and have been for some time, more technically proficient skaters than Kwan; she has long been known for her fluidity and style. This Olympics has a new judging system where technical proficiency, specifically the difficulty of various moves, counts for a lot more than it used to, and would make her quest that much more difficult.

I really believe Kwan has a mental block about the Olympics - you can argue, as Tennis Guy has, that it was bad luck, but the reality is that one cannot make the mistakes Kwan made when one is going for the gold. Given her inability to win gold when she was dominating the sport, how could she hope to gold medal now? And should the American team be adjusted to account for her quest for gold? This is not like in 1994, when Kwan had to sit out of the Olympics because Kerrigan was injured. Kerrigan's injuries were not caused by regular training or competition, and she was competing well before the attack.

Given all that, Kwan stayed true to her word and did the right thing in the end. She stated in her petition that she would withdraw if she were not 100%, and that is what she did, which is probably the best example of the Olympic spirit so far at these games. I really feel for her having to deal with the knowledge that she'll never get gold (although Kerrigan has made a very nice career for herself with a bronze and a silver), and really respect her for doing what was right.

Good post CPT.

I agree with you about the mental block though I still question whether the erratic Hughes who has never figured heavily in world competition would have a better chance than a healthy Kwan of getting any medal (not just gold). The changes in scoring and technical requirement definitely worked against Kwan, but if she had the elements in place, she could have been in the running. It's been some time since she did, though.

I suppose that the pairs finale hasn't been showed in USA yet, so I won't say the result....just to watch it!

No one in their right mind will ever see Michelle Kwan as a selfish athlete. If she's a selfish athlete, then she's devised the most brilliant
12-year Machiavellian plot ever to deceive the sports public.

She is one of the few althletes that actually lives up to her public persona. Even her colleagues speak highly of her. The fact that she withdrew so early just cements her reputation as one of the most gracious women in sports. Again, for the uninformed, Nationals is not a qualifying competition. As the former National champ and 4th place finisher at Worlds, I think that more than qualified her for the Olympics.

As far as Kwan not being competitive in the new scoring system, good skating is good skating. Even at Worlds where she came in 4th under the new scoring system, I think she proved herself capable of the system by getting so far as she did with a subpar 6.0-tailored long program. I don't think ANYONE will beat Slutskaya for gold, but Cohen tends to crack under the pressure, and I think Kwan was still USA's best chance at a medal at the Olympics at her healthiest. Hughes has no chance so I won't mention her any further.

There is a myth that Kwan just skates around looking pretty. But the reason why she's won so many times is because each of her elements are at world class level and text book perfect. And although less ambitious in her jumps, in the end she tends to be the one who actually completes all her jumps without falling. Which makes her a great technician as well. She doesn't have the big show stopping moves, but I think people are underestimating how much the new scoring system rewards well-done text book elements.

I think the criticms of Kwan not being competitive only have weight under a perfect scenario where the top 6 skater do every ambitious performance perfectly. But we all know that skaters fall and overambition spells disaster for many skaters.

[ February 13, 2006, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: savvy ]

Well, Kwan's petition was perfectly understandable, but I do think granting it was a questionable decision. If other athletes perceive it as special treatment, I can certainly see their point of view--although the Chinese pair who were bronze medalists last night must have gotten a similar dispensation from their olympic committee. So I can see where the USOC (or whatever the governing body was) might have thought she could pull out a medal. In any event, Kwan handled the situation gracefully, and Hughes will have her shot.

I feel people are seriously underrating Slutskaya, however. The notion that Kwan has dominated her throughout her career is simply wrong. Slutskaya had beaten her a couple times heading into the 2002 Olympics and beat her again in the World Chmapionships that year, before disappearing due to illness in 2003. Back in form in 2005, she was world champion again, and I don't see why it's arrogant for her to think she can win any competition she enters. Personally, I hope Irina wins and I think it will be a great story if she does. Overshadowed by other skaters as a young woman, she worked hard and pushed the technical envelope with difficult combination jumps to reach the top. Throw in the fact that she narrowly missed her moment of Olympic glory in 2002 and looked like she might never skate again a couple years ago, and you have a classic Olympic drama.

Article on Johnny Weir from the Boston Globe

here

[ February 14, 2006, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Chill-Trick ]

Ah yes, once again, the JC school of Enron facts, figures, and results. Oh wait a minute, you're not even providing facts and figures, you're just saying people are wrong without any substantiation other than just the past few years. Even better. wink

They both popped on the scene in the mid 90's. Since then:

1995 Worlds Kwan 4th, Slutskaya 7th
1996 Worlds Kwan 1st, Slutkaya 3rd
1997 Worlds Kwan 2nd, Slutskaya 4th
1998 Worlds Kwan 1st, Slutskaya 2nd
1999 Worlds Kwan 2nd, Slutskaya not there
2000 Worlds Kwan 1st, Slutskaya 2nd
2001 Worlds Kwan 1st, Slutskaya 2nd
2002 Worlds Slutskaya 1st, Kwan 2nd
2003 Worlds Kwan 1st, Slutskaya not there
2004 Worlds Kwan 3rd, Slutskaya 9th
2005 Worlds Slutskaya 1st, Kwan 4th

1998 Olympics Kwan 2nd, Slutskaya 5th
2002 Olypmics Slutskaya 2nd, Kwan 3rd

Kwan = 9 US Championships
Slutskaya = 7 European Championships

Kwan = 5 World Championships
Slutskaya = 2 World Championships

Clearly the people claiming Kwan dominated her throughout her career were all wrong, huh?

[spelling edits]

[ February 14, 2006, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Tennis Guy ]

JC:

If I remember correctly, I believe that Kwan actually was placed ahead of Slutskaya in 2002 with the ordinals before Sarah Hughes skated. I think Kwan would have won the gold and Slutskaya the silver if Hughes had not had the skate of her life. Hughes' performance mixed up the ordinals and landed Kwan with the bronze, but head-to-head, Kwan was ranked ahead of Slutskaya if Hughes were to be taken out of the mix.

I have never liked Slutskaya since I remember the 2002 Olympics. The footage showed Sarah coming off the ice after her tremendous skate and in the background, Slutskaya got on her cell phone and was being pissy and snotty as hell.

I also remember Slutskaya being a poor sport about it, indicating that after the pairs fiasco that she felt the judges were biased towards Sarah Hughes and wanted to be awarded a second Gold Medal like the Canadian pair was offered.

So, my hope is that she doesn't even land on the medal stand this time around.

That's my memory of Slutskaya at the last Olympics too, and her attitude at the last European competition leading up to this Olympics didn't seem much different. Shades of the old pre-comeback Hingis, huh Tennis Guy? But I know some people who like her.

She's lucky Mao Asada isn't in Turino! I'd be happy if Cohen beat her.

What is funny is that it seems that since Kristi Yamaguchi, winning the Gold Medal in the Olympics is almost a curse of sorts. None of the past 3 winners has been in the professional realm that much.

Ahem.,..the complete records of Kwan & Slutskaya in competitions in which both competed:

Kwan's rank 1st
1994 Goodwill Games 2/6 KWAN
1994 Skate America 2/3 KWAN
1995 World Championships 4/7 KWAN
1995 Skate America 1/3 KWAN
1996 Centennial on Ice 3/1 SLUTSKAYA
1996 World Championships 1/3 KWAN
1996 The Continent’s Cup 1 / 2 KWAN
1997 Champion Series Final 2/3 KWAN
1997 World Championships 2/4 KWAN
1998 Winter Olympics 2/5 KWAN
1998 World Championships 1 / 2 KWAN
1998 Ultimate Four 1/3 KWAN
1998 Goodwill Games 1/5 KWAN
1998 Grand Slam 1/7 KWAN
1999 Japan Open 1 / 2 KWAN
2000 Grand Prix Finals 2/ 1 KWAN
2000 World Championships 1 / 2 KWAN
2000 The Masters 1 / 2 KWAN
2000 Skate Canada 2/1 SLUTSKAYA
2001 Grand Prix Final 2/1 SLUTSKAYA
2001 World Championships 1 / 2 KWAN
2001 The Masters 2/1 SLUTSKAYA
2001 Skate Canada 3/2 SLUTSKAYA
2002 Grand Prix Final 2/1 SLUTSKAYA
2002 Winter Olympics 3/2 SLUTSKAYA
2002 World Championships 2/1 SLUTSKAYA
2004 World Championships 3/9 KWAN
2004 Marshall’s World Figure Skating 2/5 KWAN
2005 World Championships 4/1 SLUTSKAYA
2005 Marshall’s World Cup 2/1 SLUTSKAYA

Up to October 2000: Kwan 17 Slutskaya 1
From November 2000 on: Slutskaya 9 Kwan 3

Oh, yeah, Kwan has really dominated Slutskaya for the last 5 years.

[ February 14, 2006, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: JC ]

LOL, go ahead, try to change your argument after the fact.

Your original post:

So "throughout her career" magically became "the last five years."

Nice tap dance.

There's no question in the recent years that Slutskaya's been doing better, but for their entire careers, which is what your original statement was, Michelle Kwan has clearly dominated her, as even your own results show. Unless, of course, 20-10 isn't domination.

Grand Prix results, though, don't compare to World Championships and Olympics. Kind of like how Tier 1 and Tier 2 tennis tournaments don't compare to Grand Slams...unless you think Sabatini dominated Graf during the early 90's, when she won so many of their non-slam matchups. Even in the last 5 years, Michelle was 2-3 in World/Olympic head-to-heads with Irina. But if you want to compare non-Grand-Prix-Finals and other non-Olympic/World events to Olympics/World Championships, then your lane-changing argument holds. Your original "throughout her career" falls flat on its face, either way.

When have I ever said Slutskaya's total career was superior? It's not. But when you say someone dominated throughout, that implies she dominated her all the time, including 2005. I would never say that Graf dominated Seles throughout her career, because there was a time when she didn't. People also said Kwan was clearly the superior skater in 2002, and if you look at her results of that season, that was not the case.

And actually, I wouldn't consider 20-10 domination, though it is at least statistically significant unlike the 7-4 and 3-1 records you like to tout as supposed dominance.

Edited to add: Actually, I would say Sabatini had a clear edge over Graf in '91, though dominace would be pushing it, given how close most of the matches were. While I might put more emphasis on more important events, I will always choose to look at more data rather than exclude it before passing judgement.

[ February 14, 2006, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: JC ]

I will let everyone else hash out the Kwan/Slutskaya story line. I will just add two things. The US Championships is NOT an Olympics qualifying event. There is still a committee that meets directly after the free skate and selects the Olympic team. It is not an automatic qualification for the skaters who finish on top. Michelle simply followed the process already in place. Also, if you ask the experts in the skating world, the majority will say that Kwan has been the more dominant skater of the pair in question. She has dominated pretty much everyone. If you follow the sport, you know that until the most recent year or two, Kwan has been considered THE skater in the women's ranks.

Now, back to the men's short program. Some nerves out on the ice. Unlike the pairs programs that were all pretty clean, the men are struggling a little more.

Poor little Frederic Dambier -- so cute and so dissed by Dick Button. (I know he doesn't intend to, but the man makes me laugh out loud way too much with his commentary.) Dambier's straight-line footwork was so basic it was "almost unscoreable". The man speaks his mind.

Then when Lambiel got ready to skate, Dick compared his costume to his dining room drapes. I was a bit in stitches. He is such a gay man being his typical bitchy self when it comes to the skaters.

Plushenko looked awfully strong out there. His program was most excellent. He will have to experience a major miscue to cough up the gold medal I do believe.

You didn't. What you did say, and I quote, again...

Throughout her career. 1995-present. In that entire timespan, Kwan dominated her. All results show it. If you meant "in the last 5 years", well, you should have said "in the last 5 years."

But, we could use this "logic" of yours to say that Hingis, even though being 8-2 with Majoli, was at one point, NOT dominating her, around the time of the 97 French and the 96 Tokyo. If you said in 96 and 97 she wasn't dominating, that would be different. If you said, "throughout her career," well, you'd be wrong. Sorry, just like Hingis dominated Majoli throughout her career, Kwan dominated Slutskaya.

Keep tap dancing. wink

So you would say that Graf dominated Seles throughout her career?

To me, clearly Kwan dominated Slutskaya and everybody else from 1994-2000. After 2000, she did not.

There's a difference between saying that somebody had a better career overall, and that they were better throughout their career. As to Majoli winning a couple matches in a row--no I wouldn't use that logic because the number of matches Majoli and Hingis played in '96-97 is too small to bee statistically significant. And actually no, 8-2 isn't dominance either. 9-1 would be dominance, because 1 loss could be written off as a fluke, but 8-2 you're at least somewhat competitive. 7-3 could just be luck.

[ February 14, 2006, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: JC ]

Could one of the figure skating fans explain what happened with the Chinese pair last night? The woman crashed to the ice on a throw and they left the ice for approximately five minutes and then continued their routine, and won the silver medal. How can this be? Is the depth of competition so weak that a competitor who stops mid-performancer, leaves the field of play to tend to injury, and only then continues can be this successful? Are there no rules that stipulate that once you begin your performance, you don't get to stop and start?

~Adam

I'm not an expert, but it appears that you are permitted to restart your routine after a crash, and the fall is only a 1 point deduction. So the rest of their program contained enough difficult elements to put them over top. I realize the system is intended to reward high risk moves, but personally I think a 1 point deduction in a program worth 120+ points is way too small.

Wow, Johnny Weir's just a little too full of himself for my tastes. From that little blurb of his, why didn't he just come right out and say "I'm a queeny gay guy who thinks he's the most rebellious, yet fabulous skater on the planet!"

His being obviously gay (without actually coming out) doesn't bother me...his ego, on the other hand...

That short program was good, though.

How do people feel about the new scoring system, by the way? I like the concept, even though it's a bit arcane, apart from the goofy random dropping of scores. It would be nice if the commentators had a full list of the elements the skaters plan to perform and could cite their maximum score--they do a better job in explaining the score in diving, though it's obviously a lot simpler because of the much shorter time frame. At least it's less nebulous than the old system with the artistic impression marks that always struck me as giving judges a free pass to vote however they wanted. Yes, I realize their were criteria, but since they were never called to explain where the number actually came from, it didn't seem fair.

I think Johnny Weir is simply trying to hard to add an edge to his persona.

While I enjoy the fact that he says exactly what he likes to say and what he wants.... he simply comes acrossed as an unlikeable bitch.

Agreed.

I loved the Weir interview. Assuming he is gay, he has dealt with the skating establishment for years that has told him to be more masculine and this was his way of saying, f*** you. He is my favorite athlete of the Games so far. Yes, and he is cute.

I agree but not about him being cute hehe..

I liked the interview and I dont blame him if he is indeed trying to create and edge to his persona he wants to get notice so why not!

he had a great short program but there is no way in hell he's getting Gold so Sliver would do him good for his 1st olympic games thats not bad

-gilbert

Great interview!! I agree he has no shot for gold but Silver would be awesome

I think he's HOT : )

His personality makes him hotter but I gather I would want to watch an NFL game and he'd want to go shopping!

How does Dick Button keep his job? He's been making unnecessarily snide, rude, and downright unprofessional comments while commentating as long as I can remember. The catty and petty interjections really do ruin the experience. I wish they'd just get it over with, and fire that bitter old bitch.

Great as Plushenko is, I find his arm motions during his footwork sequences really annoying.

Edited to add:
Just saw Johnny Weir--very impressive performance. I probably won't get to hear the interview everyone's discussing, though.

[ February 14, 2006, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: JC ]