Time to end gay sports medal inflation Print E-mail
Gay Sports Movement - Outgames 2009
Wednesday, 05 August 2009 17:32

Awarding a medal for just showing up defeats the purpose of true competition.

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Outsports.com

Until a week ago, I had never thrown a javelin. I can throw a football 50 yards with a spiral so I figured that flinging a javelin was no big deal.

I stood on the infield of Osterbro Stadium in Copenhagen with my "coach," Lars Rains, an Outgames decathlete and awesome guy, who was giving me some pointers. I wasn't much of a student - two of my throws had the aerodynamic quality of a one-winged duck, while the third did land point down in the ground, albeit only about 10 feet away.

medalinflation300



"Congratulations," Lars said. "You would have won the silver medal in your age group."

I laughed, but his comment brought to the surface one of my pet peeves about international gay sporting events like the Outgames and Gay Games - medal inflation, or awarding a gold, silver or a bronze medal just for showing up. I think it devalues sport and real accomplishment.

Medal inflation is prevalent in sports like track and field and swimming, where athletes of all age groups compete and where there are numerous events for each discipline. The most competitive age groups at these events are those that fall between ages 25 and 45. There are fewer 50+ jocks in any competition and fewer under 25 (due to the cost of getting to an event).

Subsequently, some athletes "win" a medal just by showing up and finishing their event. I've seen athletes at past Gay Games clanking with a half-dozen medal dangling from their neck, only to discover that they were the only one in their age group competing. It seems deceptive. Had I entered the javelin and "won" a silver, I would have stuck it in my pocket and been embarrassed to display it.

Before anyone slams for me disrespecting any competitor, that is not my point. I admire anyone who competes in any sport at any age and I plan on staying active as long as my body allows. But competing means having competition, not getting a pass to a medal.

Here is what my criteria would be for awarding medals in an age group. (In addition to age group medals, there should always be an "open" division awarding gold, silver and bronze to the top three finishers regardless of age.)

  • If there is only 1 competitor: No gold medal awarded. Give the athlete a "medal of accomplishment" to recognize that he competed and finished.
  • Two competitors: Award a gold medal only. Give a medal of accomplishment to second place.
  • Three competitors: Award a gold and silver. Give a medal of accomplishment to third place.
  • Four or more competitors: Award gold, silver and bronze.

The nature of sports and competition is the chance of losing. If no one wins or loses, you have not had a competition but an exhibition. Awarding a medal to those merely finishing cheapens those who won their medals in a true competition.

Finally, I think this medal inflation sends a bad signal about gay and lesbian athletes, that we somehow operate on a different competitive level and need medals to validate us. Let's earn what we've won.

There is another side to this and I will give the last word to Roger Brigham, a longtime wrestler, who posted this comment when I briefly broached this subject a week ago. I obviously disagree but respect what he has to say:

I think there is a value behind the 'medal inflation' comment, but I think it is being looked at backwards.

If there is not a deep pool of peer competition, the prestige is devalued, but what has really been shortchanged is the competition experience for the competitor. The training and sacrifice it took to get there and to try is what is honored and that is the same regardless. But the athlete who must swim or run without a peer to measure against lacks that 'validation' that is a valuable, tangible part of the competitive experience.

The implication behind Jim's comments, that perhaps these athletes should not be honored as much or recognized in the same manner. I disagree with. What I feel bad for is the athlete who while having the joy of exertion in public was not given the 'test' comparison experience.

As for the suggestion for doing away with the age-division gold medals, you have got to be nuts.

I would love to hear what others think, so feel free to post in the comments below.

Comments
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Ric   |71.104.19.xxx |2009-08-05 15:16:34
i agree it does seem silly to award so many medals, especially when there's no
competition to really earn it

medal of accomplishment sounds like a good
idea, they still get to come home with some sort of hardware and it makes it
mean a little more to leave with a gold or silver medal because now there's less
chance that just anybody can jump an event and win one
Thom   |65.184.26.xxx |2009-08-05 18:06:25
I do agree with this as well. I've "won" a couple USTA tennis
tournaments where there was only one or two other players or teams (doubles).
That just seemed silly to me, and I didn't feel like I "won" anything.
I've won tournaments with larger pools of participants and felt more satisfied
and like I actually won something.

Unfortunately, in our society today,
particularly with the younger generation, an award, in this case a medal, is
often expected just for showing up.
Gene Dermody  - We are not running an alternative to the Olympics   |68.36.219.xxx |2009-08-06 03:11:34
The problems with Jim's position are many. It assumes that only elitist
performances matter. That may be a valid intellectual argument, but it is not
realistic when trying to enhance sports in the community.
Any coach will tell
you that focusing on elitism simply does not motivate a critical mass of
competitors anymore, enough to build successful programs. You need the critical
mass to actually achieve elitism... you are only as good as your competition.
Well how do you motivate for and build critical mass?
LGBT athletics are
invariably NOT Olympic qualifying events, and should not aspire to be so. It
implies that we are still trying to prove to the world that LGBT are just as
good. We won that battle decades ago with Tom Waddell, Dave Kopay, et al. It
also implies that only LGBT events do this medal inflation. Everyone does it
because the collective recreational experience for a community is far more
positive and desirable than hanging -more- medals around the necks of young
genetically gifted athletes.
I coached high School wrestling for 13 years, and
have been very invloved with -mainstream- California USA Wrestling, the
mainstream organization. I understand all of these debates around elitism vs.
recreational participation. It is not an either/or choice. The solution as
practiced today in the mainstream of recreational, elite, and academic sports
-is- to increase Participation, Inclusion, and Personal Best (Tom Waddell's
visison, and the Mission of the GayGames!). This Mission cannot be achieved by
limiting the opportunities for success to the elite athletes, which is exactly
what you do when you go back to only rewarding the young & genetically
gifted.
What matters most for all communities is getting 'critical mass' to
celebrate BOTH our elite athletes -and- our recreational athletes. Would you
discard the Special Olympics? The Senior Games? Where would you draw the line
for medal inflation? It is really an outdated purist intellectual position.

We need both focuses in all communities: the Olympic elitist Citius, Altius,
Fortius -and- the GayGames Participation, Inclusion, and Personal Best if we are
to motivate a critical mass of athletes. If medal inflation is a tool that has
proven to work, so be it. Believe me Jim, I was where you are now in 1996 when
the GayGames/FGG debated this and wanted to ELIMINATE all medals. What we have
today is a working -mainstream- compromise, and it does not bother me in the
least.
Gene Dermody  - We are not running an alternative to the Olympics   |68.36.219.xxx |2009-08-06 03:14:24
[continued]... Everyone does it because the collective recreational experience
for a community is far more positive and desirable than hanging -more- medals
around the necks of young genetically gifted athletes.
I coached high School
wrestling for 13 years, and have been very invloved with -mainstream- California
USA Wrestling, the mainstream organization. I understand all of these debates
around elitism vs. recreational participation. It is not an either/or choice.
The solution as practiced today in the mainstream of recreational, elite, and
academic sports -is- to increase Participation, Inclusion, and Personal Best
(Tom Waddell's visison, and the Mission of the GayGames!). This Mission cannot
be achieved by limiting the opportunities for success to the elite athletes,
which is exactly what you do when you go back to only rewarding the young &
genetically gifted.
What matters most for all communities is getting 'critical
mass' to celebrate BOTH our elite athletes -and- our recreational athletes.
Would you discard the Special Olympics? The Senior Games? Where would you draw
the line for medal inflation? It is really an outdated purist intellectual
position.
We need both focuses in all communities: the Olympic elitist Citius,
Altius, Fortius -and- the GayGames Participation, Inclusion, and Personal Best
if we are to motivate a critical mass of athletes. If medal inflation is a tool
that has proven to work, so be it. Believe me Jim, I was where you are now in
1996 when the GayGames/FGG debated this and wanted to ELIMINATE all medals.
What we have today is a working -mainstream- compromise, and it does not bother
me in the least.
Gene Dermody  - We are not running an alternative to the Olympics   |68.36.219.xxx |2009-08-06 03:16:33
[continued] ...What matters most for all communities is getting 'critical mass'
to celebrate BOTH our elite athletes -and- our recreational athletes. Would you
discard the Special Olympics? The Senior Games? Where would you draw the line
for medal inflation? It is really an outdated purist intellectual position.

We need both focuses in all communities: the Olympic elitist Citius, Altius,
Fortius -and- the GayGames Participation, Inclusion, and Personal Best if we are
to motivate a critical mass of athletes. If medal inflation is a tool that has
proven to work, so be it. Believe me Jim, I was where you are now in 1996 when
the GayGames/FGG debated this and wanted to ELIMINATE all medals. What we have
today is a working -mainstream- compromise, and it does not bother me in the
least.
Mike   |67.243.23.xxx |2009-08-06 04:03:35
Much ado about nothing. The original intent of The Gay Games (and most gay
sports competitions) was community, camraderie and creating a safe sports
environment in which gay athletes could compete.

Frankly, I've always felt a
bit embarrassed for the 35+ year old guy who wears his medals and displays his
trophies in his home. Isn't it really a bit silly to be a 30-something,
40-somthing or older man and have so much emotional investment in a
'recreational sporting event' medal?

The spirit was meant to be, and should
be, participate, play hard, play your best, play to win and forget about all
this other 'stuff' that occurs after the competition (i.e., medals, trophies,
MVP awards, etc.)
David   |71.182.233.xxx |2009-08-06 05:42:46
So you really think that someone winning a gold medal when they are the only
competitor CHEAPENS the accomplishment of someone who won a medal while
competing against several others? That sounds like the people who believe that
allowing gay marriage CHEAPENS heterosexual marriage. Are you kidding me? If
I win a gold medal in my competition against a group of others, I am proud of
what I accomplished, yes, but why would I care of someone else got a medal? I'm
not that narcissitic, thank you.
Kevin Boyer   |74.10.102.xxx |2009-08-06 07:11:36
The Gay Games is more like a Master's competition and less like an Olympics,
with the addition of the "participation, inclusion and personal best"
motto. Gay Games medals aren't awarded in age groups in an effor to make people
feel good, but rather are following internationally recognized standards for
those sports.

Where age groups are not the determining factor, but ability
levels are used (softball, volleyball, for example), the medals are awarded in
categories that are consistent with international rules regarding ability
ranking.

Inevitably in a multi-sport event even as large as the Gay Games,
there will be medals awarded in sports where few participated in a category. But
I don't think it's reasonable to say to someone that they don't get a medal for
winning a category simply because not enough people entered in that category.
It's not their fault and they traveled a long way and trained to perform.

For
someone of Jim's advanced age, that 10 foot javelin throw might be worthy of
celebration after all! :-)
Marc Naimark  - FGG Officer Sports   |85.169.207.xxx |2009-08-06 07:11:45
I appreciate the sentiment and thoughts in the original article and those in the
comments. They are ones that as Roger and Gene know, are often heard at the Gay
Games (and other LGBT sporting events). I particularly liked David's comparison
to gay marriage "devaluing" mixed-gender marriage.

A point not
explicitly made yet is that no-one has ever claimed that winning a gold medal in
the Gay Games means that you are the best "gay" athlete in that sport or
event. That's not the case when you win an international federation's
championship, or an Olympic medal: the winner of a gold medal there can make
such a claim in good faith, and be admired for his or her achievement. At the
Gay Games, however, a gold medal in the Gay Games simply means that you were the
best in that event at the Gay Games. Nothing more... but nothing less, either.


If the motto of the Gay Games is "participation, inclusion, and personal
best", it's for a reason. Part of LGBT sport is the desire to offer everyone
the ability to compete to his or her best in a competitive sports event. That's
not the message of elite sport, and I, for one, am glad that the Gay Games
offers something different, and on a human level, better, I think.
Marc Naimark  - FGG Officer Sports   |85.169.207.xxx |2009-08-06 07:12:33
oops... too long...

If the motto of the Gay Games is "participation,
inclusion, and personal best", it's for a reason. Part of LGBT sport is the
desire to offer everyone the ability to compete to his or her best in a
competitive sports event. That's not the message of elite sport, and I, for one,
am glad that the Gay Games offers something different, and on a human level,
better, I think.
Jim at Outsports   |99.22.220.xxx |2009-08-06 09:16:46
How is it "elitist" to ask that someone have a competitor before
awarding a gold medal?
Gene Dermody  - Elitist means limiting opportunity   |68.36.219.xxx |2009-08-06 09:34:49
It is elitist to assume that medals are some sort of 'absolute' measurement or
recognition, when in reality they are simply an award for a specific situation
at a specific time.
Should someone who wins because his opponent defaults
because of injury, does not make weight, does not even show up for his bout, or
is disqualified for unsportsmanlike conduct be denied his recognition medal
because there was no perfect resolution to the 'match up'?
What is the
difference amongst all of the above scenarios, who cares, and why this
preoccupation with the absolute meaning of the medal?
In wrestling we learned
al LONG time ago that there will be fewer competitors at the extremes of weights
(< 130# and > 220#). Should we just not offer these opportunities for the
marginalized athletes because in many tournaments there are simply not enough
competitors or sometimes none?
It is simply not fair to these athletes who
train, compete, prepare, and spend $$$ to attend these tournaments to deny them
their recognition.
It is elitest to assume that only the younger, more
genetically gifted should be able to compete and be recognized.
Gene Dermody  - Elitist means limiting opportunity II   |68.36.219.xxx |2009-08-06 09:44:23
[continued] ..It is simply not fair to these athletes who train, compete, and
spend $$$ to go to tournaments to deny them their earned recognition because of
circumstances beyond their control.
Should we have not given medals to the
Magnificent Seven wrestlers in CopenHagen because they really had no one to
wrestle in their weight classes?
It is elitist to assume that only the young
genetically gifted athletes in the more common 'Bell Curve' of weight classes
140# - 180# be allowed to earn medals. It really disturbs my egalitarian nature
as a coach to think that sports recognition should only be afforded those who
are already Olympic calibre and get through a perfect match. That is not
reality.
Even in the Olympics, if your opponent does not show up, you STLL win
and get your medal.
Kevin Boyer   |74.10.102.xxx |2009-08-06 09:51:44
On a hunch, I looked up the results from the World Masters Games. This is the
largest amateur athletic event in the world (20,000 or so participants). Its
mission is similar to that of the Gay Games, though more focused on "athlete
for any age" but still on participation. The results show that there were 4
participants in the 75+ Men's Pentathlon and just one in the 90+ Men's
Pentathlon. I'd hate to be the one that denied a gold medal to any of the
winners in that group.

(2 participants in women's 60-64 pentathlon and 3 in
women's 65+ pentathlon).

My point is that this is not a "gay games"
phenomen, but part of the master's sports system. Better we focus on getting
more old people like Jim off their walkers and onto the track field :-)
Gene Dermody  - Elitism means limiting opportunity III   |68.36.219.xxx |2009-08-06 09:59:48
Perhaps the problem here is the usual forcing of a very restrictive 'Medal
Award' policy across all sports, when we already know that the LGBT sports
organizers have enhanced the rules of the mainstream to favor more
'Particpation, Inclusion, and Personal Best'... -and- REGISTRATION#s!
What
better way to enhance critical mass needed for such an event than to cheapen the
elitist value of the medals.
This LGBT 'Sports Specific' policy approach has
been one of the successes of the FGG, and you see it in Masters, Seniors, and
other Games.
It is something the FGG brings something to the table that GLISA
does not. Just 'OutSourcing' the sports to the mainstream without modifcations
is unacceptable.
LGBT sports organizers all have specific policies to make sure
that every attempt is made to insure competition (i.e.. collapsing divisions),
but sometimes it is unsafe and unfair. These decisions need to be left to the
experts, sport by sport, not legislated across all sports.
Cyd   |98.148.103.xxx |2009-08-06 10:10:55
If gold, silver and bronze are just "participation" medals, why are
actual "participation" medals handed out for just...PARTICIPATING?

Why
not hand out medals to the top 10 finishers if it's all about inclusion? Give a
copper medal to the 4th place finisher; An aluminum medal to the 5th place
finisher. Why stop at 3 if this is about inclusion?

There is no limit of
success to "elite" athletes. Jim's proposal INCLUDES medals for every
age group.

I LOVE Jim's "medal of accomplishment" idea.
Marc Naimark  - FGG Sports Officer   |85.169.207.xxx |2009-08-06 10:11:59
Jim at Outsports wrote:
How is it "elitist" to ask that someone have a competitor before
awarding a gold medal?

I think you're twisting my words. I made a distinction between "elite
sport" and LGBT sport. I didn't say "elitist". And
elite sport purports to determine THE best in any relevant category
(geographic, age,...). The categories that define LGBT sport are not
relevant to that framework.

This is also true for any of the umpteen
other fields of sport, recreational or competitive. None of them make the
claims to singularity that elite sport does. To view an event like
WMG, or Maccabiah, or your neighborhood softball league through the
binoculars of elite sport is to deform what all these sporting
outlets (which concern thousands times more people) are all
about.

That being said, athletes come for competition. Outgames 2009,
however well organized, failed on that count. The Gay Games in certain
events can also fail to provide competition. But the Gay Games does try to
plan for offering the best competitive experience possible. That can
mean that athletes in different age groups compete together, but with
separate rankings. It's a compromise, but to simply group athletes
together without recognizing reasonable pre-declared distinctions would be
most unfair.
Cyd   |98.148.103.xxx |2009-08-06 10:13:14
"Elitist value of medals" - Who is this and what have you done with Gene
Dermody???
Marc Naimark  - FGG Sports Officer   |85.169.207.xxx |2009-08-06 10:13:49
That being said, athletes come for competition. Outgames 2009, however well
organized, failed on that count. The Gay Games in certain events can also fail
to provide competition. But the Gay Games does try to plan for offering the best
competitive experience possible. That can mean that athletes in different age
groups compete together, but with separate rankings. It's a compromise, but to
simply group athletes together without recognizing reasonable pre-declared
distinctions would be most unfair.
Marc Naimark  - FGG Sports Officer   |85.169.207.xxx |2009-08-06 10:19:35
And Jim ignores the fact that in a significant number of sports (I would guess
in sports concerning at least half of Gay Games participants), in addition to
their medal, they take away objective results that can be compared to other
competitors outside the Gay Games: swimming or track times, distance of a
javelin throw, weight lifted, etc. By ensuring that venues, rules, and
officiating meet international standards, those results are very meaningful,
independent of the medal won.
Jim at Outsports   |99.22.220.xxx |2009-08-06 10:21:55
Hey Marc:
I was referring to Gene using "elitist," not you. Sorry for
any confusion.

And I am NOT advocating eliminating medals, just that you need
to have at least 1 competitor to have the chance to win one. That's a pretty low
bar.
Marc Naimark  - re:   |85.169.207.xxx |2009-08-06 10:25:39
Jim at Outsports wrote:
Hey Marc:
I was referring to Gene using "elitist," not you. Sorry
for any confusion.

And I am NOT advocating eliminating medals, just
that you need to have at least 1 competitor to have the chance to win one.
That's a pretty low bar.


OK. I still disagree strongly with you. In any case, from a purely
commercial/moral/ethical point of view, how can you say to someone who
has registered to compete in a given category/age group, who has paid
a lot of money to register and travel, who have invested time and money in
her training, that because there are two no-shows, she can't compete
for a medal? Or that if she wants a medal, she'll have to compete with
athletes 30 years younger?
Marc Naimark  - FGG Sports Officer   |85.169.207.xxx |2009-08-06 10:32:06
I can give a counter example to show that we do consider this a serious issue.
In Gay Games bodybuilding, because the sanctioning body exists primarily to
judge and sanction the Gay Games event, it has been free to innovate. As in many
other bodybuilding organizations, weight classes are used. But rather than apply
predetermined arbitrary cutoffs between classes, athletes are divided up on the
basis of the number of athletes in the relevant age division. If there are only
6 over-70 athletes, there will be one weight group. If there are 24, there would
be three (not sure of the the exact rules here). The goal is to offer a real
competitive experience to all, to take into account the fact that regular
cutoffs (70kg/80kg/90kg/etc) are inappropriate for a Gaussian distribution, and
that the actual athletes present may in any case not follow any predetermined
distribution of body weight.
Gene Dermody  - This is a very old debate within the FGG   |68.36.219.xxx |2009-08-06 10:59:26
I am glad that this issue of medals has been broached. The FGG has had these
very heated debates since 1996 and before, and what we have is a compromise that
defers to the LGBT sports organizations.
This just illustrates once again
what the FGG brings to the table what GLISA cannot... research & policy. These
rules modifications include sports specific fair 'division collapsing' policies
that are the preserve of the LGBT sports organizations... not me, not Jim, not
some fuzzy feeling. The polices are not perfect, but they do yield the
critical mass/the higher registration#s, and the minimum of complaints.
I
like Cyd's ideas even if they were facetious. I have always awarded copper and
iron medals to go as far down as possible with the recognition. But I could
never support an across the board policy the denies a medal because of the
reality of age, skill, gender, morphologogy, or an accident of the weather. It
just smacks of elitism to penalize competitors because of circumstances beyond
their control.
we will have to agree to disagree... vehemently.
Ed   |63.119.222.xxx |2009-08-06 11:15:45
This issue exists not only in the gay games but in many smaller sporting events.
A good friend of mine was a professional weightlifter well into his 70s.
Frequently he was the only competitor in the 55+ in many sanctioned competitions
and would leave with multiple trophies in his weight class.

As a sidelight,
he participated largely not because of the trophies but because of the strict
judging of the event. Making a personal best lift in a judged event where poor
form could disqualify the lift meant a lot to him.

My point is that this is
not a issue about gay athletes needing validation. This issue exists in any
sporting event where the competitor pool is small regardless of whether the
competitors are gay or straight.
rogerb  - Rosie Ruiz might agree with you, but...   |71.139.28.xxx |2009-08-06 12:41:21
I held off posting as I was already quoted and wrote Jim personally. Happy
athletes are speaking up to show considerations Jim's plan would harm.

I might
have thought similarly to Jim when I was a young sports stud back in the day and
not involved in LGBT sports. But after 4+ decades of competing, overcoming
kidney failure, hip replacements, diabetes etc, I think appreciate what it takes
to continue to get out there.

I think lack of LGBT respect for/awareness of
sports robs us all. So I do all I can to encourage and promote participation.

-
A gold medal is 'shorthand' for 'no peer finished higher.' Its value is what a
person seeing it decides. You see 7 on one neck, you can say you value it less;
your right, but the medals aren't for you. The person with 7 knows what it took
to be there and gets what he/she needs./sees out of it. That's who it is
for.

-- USSR&USA medalists did not default golds from 84 & 88. History may see
them as 'lesser,' but under the condiitons, they were 'peak.'

-- In '06, my
opponent had 3 years to learn my moves/perfect their defense. No other bodies
safe for him to wrestle in Chicago. You'd screw him from silver because there
were no others? My gold is 'less' because I stayed to fight him instead of
switching groups even tho he was harder for me because of his
familiarity?

Weigh perception of 'inflation' vs. reality of value and gold
medals are no brainers.
rogerb  - continuing....   |71.139.28.xxx |2009-08-06 12:44:00
-- USSR&USA medalists did not default golds from 84 & 88. History may see those
medals as 'lesser,' but under the conditions, they were 'peak.'

-- In '06, my
opponent had 3 years to learn my moves/perfect their defense. No other bodies
safe for him to wrestle in Chicago. You'd screw him from silver because there
were no others? My gold is 'less' because I stayed to fight him instead of
switching groups even tho he was harder for me because of his
familiarity?

Weigh perception of 'inflation' vs. reality of value and gold
medals are no brainers.
marathon_runner26   |67.181.184.xxx |2009-08-06 13:22:53
>If there is only 1 competitor: No gold medal awarded. Give the athlete a
"medal of accomplishment" to recognize that he competed and
finished.<

Nonsense. For example, I ran in the Pride Track meet last month. I
was the only one in my age group, so of course won. But does that devalue the
performance? I had at the time, the 16th fastest time that had been recorded by
USATF in the event this year. That is among all athletes, gay or not. Does the
lack of competition devalue that performance. I think not.
Cyd   |98.148.103.xxx |2009-08-06 13:49:28
They have nothing to do with one another. You received a Pride Meet medal, not a
USATF award of recognition. Should a swimmer who records a world record in
practice be given an Olympic gold medal? These are the proverbial apples and
oranges.
marathon_runner26   |67.181.184.xxx |2009-08-06 16:20:57
It is an example! The point is that you would deny a gold medal to someone that
might happen to set a world record in a gay games race because no one in their
age category was in the race. That is just plain silly. Meanwhile, someone who
didn't train and competed with someone else that didn't train would receive a
medal. It makes no sense.
Jim at Outsports   |144.142.12.xxx |2009-08-06 16:34:29
You did not read what I wrote. In your example, you would have gotten a medal
for setting a record since your time would have beaten anyone in any age group.
Here is what I wrote:

(In addition to age group medals, there should always be
an "open" division awarding gold, silver and bronze to the top three
finishers regardless of age.)
Cyd   |98.148.103.xxx |2009-08-06 13:25:25
If the Gay Games aren't about winning or losing, then why give out medals????


And why care if someone is told when they get there, "Sorry, you're the
only person in your competition, we're not handing out a medal"? They
shouldn't care, right? Because the Gay Games is only about participation and
inclusion and racing against yourself. Right?

You want to say these medals are
important while at the same time saying they aren't. Which is it???
Cyd   |98.148.103.xxx |2009-08-06 13:33:45
BTW, I think Jim and I use the Gay Games as an example because that's what we're
closest too - this medal inflation goes on in many other arenas, too. Not to say
that the GG is doing something egregious that no one else does - we just
personally aren't as close to other events. The events we're close to don't give
out 100 gold medals.
Thom   |65.184.26.xxx |2009-08-06 13:43:31
So for me, this boils downt to participation versus competition. When I enter a
GLTA tournament, I am entering to compete and win, not just participate. I know
this is not the case for everyone, but this is a tough thing to balance-how do
you encourage the competition and those who are just wanting to partiicpate and
aren't as focused on wanting to win.
rogerb  - balance   |71.139.28.xxx |2009-08-06 14:24:25
You balance by allowing both and allowing all to get what they want and need out
of it. Taking away medals does nothing to enhance; it only diminishes.

I fought
for medal. I never wear it. It's not for anyone else. But it is important to me
to have it and to have put in the work it took to get it.
Jim at Outsports   |144.142.12.xxx |2009-08-06 14:42:27
I am only advocating taking away medals in those groups where there is not
enough competition.

The defenders of the current system never explain how they
justify depriving a fourth-place finisher of a medal, when they defend to the
end giving medals to those who face zero competition. If you were being
consistent, everyone would "win" a medal at the end of the competition.
Gene Dermody  - Who is really bothered by this inflation?   |68.36.219.xxx |2009-08-06 15:00:40
I am still only seeing a few intellectual arguments against medal inflation.
Whom are we trying to placate? Surely not the LGBT sport organizations, they
control their rules. Swimming and Track probably see most of this. In wrestling
we tell our possible competitors without a competitor that we will give them
their medal if they will either do legal exhibitions (which they usually ask for
anyway) or move to another age/weight category. We have never had anyone
refuse. It is this reality that makes this entire debate moot. Our athletes
are not sandbaggers, and if they are we have procedures in place to handle it.
We only force collapse in local small tournaments, not the GayGames. Do you
think these type of discussions go on in GLISA?
LACharlie13   |76.95.203.xxx |2009-08-06 17:02:23
All of my medals are in team sports where I was,arguably, a "charity
case" , although I usually ran up and down the field with the best of
them. Thanks to my teammates for putting up with me!
rogerb   |71.139.28.xxx |2009-08-06 18:43:48
Nobody is saying giving medals deeper than third. Many major single sport
tournaments give special recognition to six deep or eight deep....

What is
funny about he passion expressed for coming up ways to eliminate awards when
possible. as tho that protects the integrity of something. In which case it
again reminds me of the marriage debate: people who oppose gay marriage start
talking about the 'sanctity' of marriage and because nobody really knows what
the word means they don't know how to argue against it.

What do you protect by
denying a placement medal? How does that enhance the experience for the athlete?
(I couldn't care less about the fans or spectators.) Tell me how you enhance the
life of the athlete who does not get a medal because of the lack of competition
depth?
Marc Naimark  - re:   |85.169.207.xxx |2009-08-06 22:11:24
Jim at Outsports wrote:
You did not read what I wrote. In your example, you would have gotten a
medal for setting a record since your time would have beaten anyone in
any age group. Here is what I wrote:

No, Jim, that's just not true (at all). His time nationally, or his record
nationally or internationally, or whatever, would also be for his age
group. He might be the slowest runner in the entire event, but in his age
group he could set a world record, and yet he would not get a gold
medal??
Marc Naimark  - re:   |85.169.207.xxx |2009-08-06 22:15:00
Cyd wrote:
You want to say these medals are important while at the same time saying
they aren't. Which is it???


If we were very bold, we might indeed decide to eliminate medals
entirely. That would not be my choice. I think the current policy is
pretty balanced: it recognizes achievement, it acknowledges that we do
not do sport in a vacuum, but it attempts to refocus the competition on
all participants and their potential to achieve.
Marc Naimark  - A point of agreement?   |85.169.207.xxx |2009-08-06 22:16:50
Rather than focusing on what we should stop doing (offering medals in groups
with low turnout), perhaps we should focus on what can do better: ensure greater
participation so that each athlete can find real competition in his or her
category.
Jon Baldan, FGG VP, Operations  - This will always be a point of discussion   |58.106.0.xxx |2009-08-06 22:36:19
I have read all this fascinating input, and like what makes our community so
wonderful, we have a diversity of opinion. I have the misfortune at Gay Games to
be involved in basketball, a sport which gets played for 7 days and you end up
with one medal at most. I look with envy at those who can run, swim, jump, do
5-10 events and get medals in all. What we recognise is achievement in a
person's specific field. Is this right or fair? Each person has their own
opinion and I can guarantee there will be people will disagree. Sport will
always have these debates - it is what makes it so interesting and entertaining.
Mike   |67.243.23.xxx |2009-08-07 04:37:28
The more I think about this issue and read the responses in the thread above,
the more it becomes a rather simple issue.

If an event like Gay Games
awards gold medals for any competitive events it sanctions and holds, then it
must award medals for all competitive events. There simply is no realistic,
feasible alternative that would not create infinitely more problems than exist
with the current system.
Mike   |67.243.23.xxx |2009-08-07 05:33:33
For those really concerned with controling 'medal inflation', the solution might
lie in controling the number of events.

I'm not too familiar with the sports
that seem to be most involved in this debate (i.e., track and field, swimming,
wrestling, etc.), but it seems like there are an awful lot of age, weight and
distance categories.

Eliminating some of the categories by combining some
of the events would help to curb 'medal inflation'.
Cyd  - re:   |75.82.89.xxx |2009-08-07 10:33:20
I agree with this too, Mike. 5-year age groups is crazy to me. I know that's the
model that many organizations take, but I have long felt it should be 10-year
age groups. Do you really need to give out medals to someone 35-39, then 40-44,
then 45-59, then 50-54, then 50-59, then 60-64, then 60-69? I'm there now and I
think it's loony.
marathon_runner26   |67.181.184.xxx |2009-08-07 13:22:39
With 10 year age groups for runners, the age adjusted tables (they do exist)
should be used to be fair. For example a 5K run by a 50 year old in 18:13 is
equivalent to one run in 19:45 by a 59 year old. There is that much degradation
due to aging. I would be OK with that formula.
marathon_runner26  - re:   |67.181.184.xxx |2009-08-07 05:39:02
Jim at Outsports wrote:
You did not read what I wrote. In your example, you would have gotten a
medal for setting a record since your time would have beaten anyone in
any age group.


No. By world record, I mean age group world record. No easy
accomplishment. A 70 year old could set a world age group record, and
still not beat 3 open division competitors. For example, the 4:57.55
1500 meter record for a 70 year old would have been beaten by no less than
15 younger runners at Outgames.
Jim at Outsports   |144.142.12.xxx |2009-08-07 12:55:06
There can always be contingencies to award a medal in a situation like this.
Cyd   |75.82.89.xxx |2009-08-07 10:38:04
I guess this whole discussion comes down to what the medals "mean." Some
people think they have not competitive meaning and should be handed out at the
starting line. Others think they mean something and should be handed out at the
finish line. For now, the former group has the power in the FGG.
rogerb   |71.139.28.xxx |2009-08-07 21:56:35
I cannot speak for large number sports such as swimming and running which have
very small age increments for their groups.

In wrestling bodies are in
constant, violent contact. In this case. differences in age and weight are
magnified; worse, that magnification increases the real likelihood of injury. As
it is, we have very wide age group: up to age 35, 35- to 49, and 50 years and
older. So you can't reduce that very much, can you. As to the weight groups, if
you cut off the upper or lower weights basically remove any place in sports for
some people. The total number of weight groups could be reduced by making the
divisions wider ranged, but what that would do would be to make the middle of
the bell curve prohibitively deep,. For example, at the 2006 Gay Games, there
were 8 in one age-weight group, and the top four wrestlers all went 4-1! The
gold medalist lost the first match; the guy who beat him got no medal. Hard to
say what is happening there is inflation.

I think what has happened is that
placement medals have been intentionally devalued to meet the needs of the
mission better -- get LGBT athletes out there and training and competing, and
folks coming from exclusion-based events don't understand it is a different
playing field.
bryan   |76.112.235.xxx |2009-08-08 02:16:28
in gay games 1994 everybody received a participation medal. those who actually
had to compete (push their bodies and brains against others who were pushing
their bodies and brains) and were victorious, earned a medal. i am proud of both
medals. just making it to one of these events (using vacation time, organizing,
fundraising, spending our own money) is an accomplishment. do the 2
organizations still do participation medals? shouldn't the participation medal
be enough for the people who do not have to compete? a default given
gold-silver-bronze medal due to lack of competitors is not competing and should
not be rewarded.
Gene Dermody  - Leave the decision to the LGBT Sports Authorities   |173.11.97.xxx |2009-08-08 05:26:32
Bryan... I am being repetitive.. Why do you think that depriving a medal to
someone somehow achieves anything more than worshiping some nebulously high
standard (like gay marriage violates the 'Sanctity' of marriage!). Leave these
awards decisions to the LGBT Sports Governing Bodies like the IGLAs... they KNOW
their sport, their competitors, and they did their research. Medal inflation
(1) increases registration#s (critical mass!); (2) increases the self esteem of
late blooming LGBT athletes; (3) offers increased opportunities for
age/morphological/gender marginalized competitors. Who cares what the purists
think. Medal inflation is way more effective in achieving our Mission than
worshiping someone's 'Elitist Sanctity' standard is.
Roberto Mantaci  - Medals and Age Groups 1/2   |82.227.169.xxx |2009-08-09 05:27:32
We should not be mixing two very different issues : medals and age groups.

In
case of medals, some people, me included, think that we could get rid of
gold-silver-bronze and only deliver the participation medal, possibly with some
form of acknowledgement for the first three placers. This acknowledgement
could be flowers, a wreath, a certificate, a ribbon. However, as Charlie Carson
says, even this solution might turn into a PR nightmare.

However, I have some
concerns with the idea of awarding something to the top three placers of each
category based only under some conditions (e.g. if a competitor is present, or
any other condition). I believe that whenever you set a rule that does not
apply evenly to all participants, you can’t help ending up with a formula that
contains some arbitrary component and therefore generates sense of frustration
and of being treated unfairly from some categories.

Furthermore, any such rule
would most likely exclude from an official recognitions athletes who would
deserve it better than many others, for several possible reasons that all of you
are able to figure out.
Roberto Mantaci  - Medals and Age Groups 2/2   |82.227.169.xxx |2009-08-09 05:30:06
Furthermore, any such rule would most likely exclude from an official
recognitions athletes who would deserve it better than many others, for several
possible reasons that all of you are able to figure out.

But when you start
talking about collapsing age groups, for some sports you are in the area of
sanctioning rules.

The Federation of Gay Games went through another long
discussion in the second half of the 90s, during which each of the sport
organizations involved with the Federation basically determined whether it was a
positive thing for their sports to be sanctioned by mainstream governing bodies
at Gay Games.For some sports the answer was yes, for others it was no. The
sanctioned sports (e.g. swimming sanctioned by the national swimming governing
body affiliated with FINA) have to abide by the governing body’s rules in
order to obtain sanctioning. You cannot nitpick the rules you like. Now, for
instance, “5-year age groups” is a FINA rule. Without a FINA sanctioning you
would lose not only in terms of visibility, image, recognition of times and
records, but also in terms of fairness of rules, insurance and, potentially,
security.
Roberto Mantaci  - Medals and Age Groups (END, JEEZ!)   |82.227.169.xxx |2009-08-09 05:31:48
Now, for instance, “5-year age groups” is a FINA rule. Without a FINA
sanctioning you would lose not only in terms of visibility, image, recognition
of times and records, but also in terms of fairness of rules, insurance and,
potentially, security.

As far as I know, FINA rules are silent with respect to
awards to the top three placers of each age group.
Marc Naimark  - FGG Sports Officer   |85.169.207.xxx |2009-08-09 06:02:33
At the heart of this discussion is the question of the "value" of a
medal. I tried to contrast the value of a medal in an int'l championship or the
Olympics with that in other events. I stated that the winner of an Olympic medal
can claim to be the best athlete in the world in her sport/event, while the
winner of a medal in the World Masters Games, for example, can only claim to be
the best in her event at that event. The winner of a medal at the Gay Games
makes no claim to being the best athlete in the world, nor the best gay athlete
in the world.

And when we go back to the Olympics... what does that really
mean? One may win a gold medal because a better athlete was injured and could
not participate. One may win a gold because a better athlete had an off day. One
may win a gold because a better athlete comes from a country boycotting the
event. Or because a better athlete did not have access to the same training, or
equipment, or whatever. Or because a better athlete comes from a place, a
family, a personal situation where his athletic potential was never realized. So
even an Olympic value is of highly subjective/relative/conditional/conjunctural
value. Should the Gay Games strive for some absolute objective value that never
really exists?

And if we are to apply some sort of rule that says that this
gold medal is justified because there are three competitors and this one is not
because there are only two, or one, should we not be looking at the level of
competition offered by the other athletes? By their past performance? Where do
you stop with this argument as to what makes a victory legitimate or not?
Marc Naimark   |85.169.207.xxx |2009-08-09 06:03:03
part 2

And when we go back to the Olympics... what does that really mean? One
may win a gold medal because a better athlete was injured and could not
participate. One may win a gold because a better athlete had an off day. One may
win a gold because a better athlete comes from a country boycotting the event.
Or because a better athlete did not have access to the same training, or
equipment, or whatever. Or because a better athlete comes from a place, a
family, a personal situation where his athletic potential was never realized. So
even an Olympic value is of highly subjective/relative/conditional/conjunctural
value. Should the Gay Games strive for some absolute objective value that never
really exists?

And if we are to apply some sort of rule that says that this
gold medal is justified because there are three competitors and this one is not
because there are only two, or one, should we not be looking at the level of
competition offered by the other athletes? By their past performance? Where do
you stop with this argument as to what makes a victory legitimate or not?
Marc Naimark   |85.169.207.xxx |2009-08-09 06:03:29
part 3

And if we are to apply some sort of rule that says that this gold medal
is justified because there are three competitors and this one is not because
there are only two, or one, should we not be looking at the level of competition
offered by the other athletes? By their past performance? Where do you stop with
this argument as to what makes a victory legitimate or not?
Don Buchanan  - Why the fuss?   |66.183.9.xxx |2009-08-10 11:29:33
For the sports I've been involved with (swimming and rowing) the masters
competitions whether gay or mainstream follow standards set by international
governing bodies in Switzerland.

Both FINA for swimming and FISA for rowing
are also responsible for governing their sports at the Olympics.

If the rules
are the same for everyone, and everyone knows what they are ahead of time, who
cares if the only entrant in a race gets a gold? As many have pointed out,
really, isn't this about doing one's personal best?
Billy   |173.183.65.xxx |2009-08-11 00:00:43
What was the original mission statement or mandate when the FGG started? The
split, which forced to have an FGG and World Out Games (WOG), had created a
division in what Gay Sports is meant to be. The FGG faithful have remained with
their allegience to the FGG. Those undecided took the risk of checking out the
World Out Games in Montreal. How many from Montreal attended Copenhagen? There
are not enough queer athletes to hold two separate International sporting
events. What this has done is divided us. We've now had to choose to support FGG
or WOG. Where are we going to place our allegience? Scrap the FGG and the WOG
and come up with a new name under which we can unite, work together, play
together, grow and move forward together. The whole intention is of
sportsmanship, comaraderie, fun, participation and competition in an environment
which is not threatening nor judgmental.
To deny a medal to someone who has had
the guts to be there, and trained, and there are no others in that age group,
should not deny that individual a medal. It's not as though Canada and Australia
and Brasil are sending the best queer athletes that their countries have to
offer. The intention of the Games is sports. Have an opening and closing
ceremony, and leave any "partying" to various groups who bid on having
something available, and the party organizers take full responsibility for
whether their party has been a huge success or total bust. This might eliminate
the loss factor that seems to have plagued every games so far. If someone is the
only age group participant in, say, the 15km cross country run, this athlete has
earned the gold. The LGBT Games are meant to be non-threatening, in a sense a
healing from bad experiences in straight very competitive sports that may have
been humiliating. Whether a person's medal(s) are proudly displayed on the wall
or thrown into a shoebox in their closet is to each their own.
jacques rouillier  - get serious guys   |74.57.227.xxx |2009-08-11 02:35:52
I can't beleive what I,m reading!! guys these medal mean nothing except the fact
that you participated in an organized sporting event. Gays are about 10% of the
world population and not even 1 % of gays participate in theses sporting events.
so whwt does a medal represent? not much except that on that day you out
perfomed those present. To the eyes of the world they have no value cause there
is no selection, anybody can participate. It dosen,t even mean your part of the
gay sport elite cause so many gay athletes are not out and would wip your ass if
they were. All I,m saying is going to gay sports event to win medals means you
have a serious self esteem problem, Deal with it and let the games reward the
participant of the day
Charlie Carson   |64.29.182.xxx |2009-08-11 13:10:16
Over time I’ve heard this discussion as a swimming participant, host
organization sports chair and FGG officer. The topic of “medals or not?”
has gone on since Gay Games I in 1982. Eventually Tom Waddell wrote about the
sports tradition of medals for top 3 places and how that still fit the goal of a
games open to everyone.

Even though you’d have thought by Gay Games IV it
might have been settled, some New Yorkers still wanted to discuss it and various
"alternate" sport categories were proposed. We finally decided the
simplest thing and the best way to stop squabbling was to follow each sport’s
standard. In other words, softball players weren’t to tell the track people
how to run their event and vice versa. So some individuals are
“over-decorated?” Well, if people can’t have a sense of humor about
others clanging a bunch of medals around their necks at the end of one week of
festivities every four years...

About the one thing not raised here is the
sheer logistics of ordering, making and delivering medals. That is virtually
impossible to do if waiting until the usual close of registration, so you have
to build in a percentage of extras. Most bidding groups get that it's simply
the cost of doing business. But I’m sure some selected hosts with budget
pressures will continue trying to collapse age and weight categories. I’ve
also seen some hosts with a few officers who griped about medal costs wanting to
know, some years later, if the FGG still had some golds left from their games
for some commemorative project. Go figure.
Charlie Carson   |64.29.182.xxx |2009-08-11 13:12:54
...at the end of one week of festivities every four years... :^)

About the
one thing not raised here is the sheer logistics of ordering, making and
delivering medals. That is virtually impossible to do if waiting until the
usual close of registration, so you have to build in a percentage of extras.
Most bidding groups get that it's simply the cost of doing business. But I’m
sure some selected hosts with budget pressures will continue trying to collapse
age and weight categories. I’ve also seen some hosts with a few officers who
griped about medal costs wanting to know, some years later, if the FGG still had
some golds left from their games for some commemorative project. Go figure.
Don Buchanan  - Gay Games vs. OutGames   |66.183.9.xxx |2009-08-11 15:02:27
A couple of personal observations re: attendance.

The Vancouver Rowing Club
(VRC) had 1 participant in Chicago me, (regatta of about 50 people after all the
controversy about the location) 10 participants including me in Montreal
(regatta of about 300), and 3 participants including me in Copenhagen (regatta
of about 200). So down from 10 last time 'round to 3 this year.

For Team
Vancouver overall the drop in the numbers was even more dramatic - about 40 in
Copenhagen down from 400 in Montreal. Of course cost would have something to do
with it - almost 3 times as much to get there and it's expensive Scandinavian
city. But I do know at least 10 people from VRC who last year were training to
go to Copenhagen.

The drop in numbers from people I talked to was all about
the economy. Period.

Just ask the harpist for the Opera who's struggling to pay
the rowing club dues this year yet alone go to Copenhagen. Can't say there's any
philosophical issue for most Canadians or the Australians or Europeans I met.
It's about the economy and their much shrunk investment portfolio.

I expect
Cologne will have it's own issues but they won't be philosophical for most
athletes. More likely economic or in the case of rowing it's not being offered
so there's 2-300 people who won't go. I actually think there is room for two
events. I didn't get to Sydney because I was in grad school and it was 8 years
then between NY and AMS. Too long!

Don
John Kilcullen   |83.71.156.xxx |2009-08-12 04:27:32
I agree that awarding medals when there is no competitor devalues the idea of
medals. I was on Team Ireland at the Outgames. One of our team won a gold and
bronze in tennis. But he was much happier with his bronze than with his gold
because he won that in a much more competitive section. Another of our team who
won a gold in badminton after sweating his way through a whole week of
competition was pointing out to me a guy who won gold in (of all things) country
dancing after performing in 3 2 minute segments! Our youngest member and only
swimmer, who was I believe the youngest competitor in the whole games, won 2
golds, 2 silvers and a bronze. He was beaten to the gold in the 100m and 50m by
the European Junior Champion - that was a serious competition!
I didn't win
anything (rowing) but was very happy to have taken part.
john k
Charlie Carson   |64.29.182.xxx |2009-08-12 07:02:38
John’s comment gets back to advance ordering of medals. How can organizers or
participants anticipate ahead of time which contests will be competitive and
which not? Example: walkovers occur occasionally. That may be a relief at a
step along a bracket, but it's not satisfying when it determines a winner.
Still, injuries/DQs happen sometimes even in pro tournaments. So don't give out
the award(s) at all?

I just think it's better to say noncompetitive events
happen sometimes for whatever reason. If some people think that devalues all
medals in brackets where people had tough competition -- well, I think it's a
matter of keeping individual circumstances in perspective.

Now if we could
find a way to prevent people from signing up to compete when all they intend to
do is march in an opening ceremony... Good luck solving that one, too!
Marc Naimark  - FGG Officer Sports   |85.169.207.xxx |2009-08-12 07:17:49
I had resolved to let the matter lie, since there are clearly many incompatible
opinions on this issue. But I did want to remind Charlie that when he registers
for Gay Games VIII, he will discover that Games Cologne is attempting to propose
a solution for the no-shows, but offering Partner Registration, which will allow
each registered participant to register a partner, relative or friend to share
in the benefits of basic registration, including participation in the opening
ceremony, without having to register for a sport or culture event, thus freeing
slots for athletes who want to compete.
Marc Naimark   |85.169.207.xxx |2009-08-12 07:18:32
*by offering
Charlie Carson   |64.29.182.xxx |2009-08-12 07:59:29
Marc, you're right -- and it's an attempt based on long discussions and I'm glad
Cologne is implementing it. I wish it could solve problems 100%, but
practically we know that won't happen. At some point we have to rely on the
good will of individuals and peer pressure to keep others from falsifying
entries. Having had an athlete in the sport I was co-chairing in 1994 apply for
and receive a scholarship and then not show up for his one registered race when
he was known to be partying -- well, that was one person I didn't think deserved
even a participant's medal.
ben   |99.50.139.xxx |2009-08-12 12:58:11
Yes, the gay Games and Outgames are about the joy of competing and celebrating
the gay/out athlete. That said, everyone who competes wants to win a medals.
You change the rules to hand out less medals, less athletes will compete, thus
killing the games. Thanks for such a brilliant suggestion.
Charlie W  - Medals are fine the way it is set up   |192.147.57.xxx |2009-08-14 11:29:27
I disagree with the original poster.

Rather than changing the way medals are
given, the organizers and LGBT athletes should try to make a point to go to the
games and compete! In other words, we need more competitors!

I understand
there is literally 'no' competition if an athlete goes to the games knowing that
he or she is the only one competing in his/her age group.
However, as the
saying goes, 'you have to be in it to win it!' All the athletes come to the
Outgames or gay games to compete, not collect medals. If he or she is the only
one in that age group, then by all means they deserved that gold medal! They
abided by the rules set forth by out games and gay games and completed the event
fair and square (where they happened to be the first in their age-group.)

I
do, however, see your point that it may be a bit pointless to compete in an
event knowing that you are the only one in your age-group!

The only way to
solve the 'inflation' of medals is to have MORE LGBT/straight athletes compete
in these games. Plain and simple!
Charlie W   |192.147.57.xxx |2009-08-14 11:30:04
The only way to solve the 'medal inflation' is to have more athletes compete!
Plain and simple.
Lucas Goodman   |71.127.183.xxx |2009-08-15 17:42:46
I have to say that I agree with Mr. Teddy Roosevelt, who exalts the virtues of
true competition:

"Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious
triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits
who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight
that knows not victory nor defeat."
Robert  - Yes, stop the medal glut   |74.195.14.xxx |2009-08-19 15:25:46
Actually, one way to make a difference in this is to have a championship
division where athletes with qualifying times/scores compete in a championship
level division. The Gay Games Champion is the winner of that division. They get
a champion division medal. If you have a qualifying time/score you MUST compete
in the championship division unless you are over 40. All others may compete in
an age division. Their Gold medal will NOT denote that they are Gay Games
Champion of that even. It will only mention that they are age division winners.


If someone is later found to have competed in an age division rather than a
championship division when they had a qualifying time/score, then their age
division medal is revoked.
Marc Naimark  - FGG Officer Sport   |85.169.207.xxx |2009-08-19 23:58:04
Again, this assumes a problem where there is none. Since no claims are made that
a winner of a gold medal at the Gay Games means anything other than the winner
was the best in her event at the Gay Games, there should be no issue.

For the
events that Robert speaks of, those whose performance can be seen in the time of
a race, or the weight lifted, etc., their performance is universally understood.
Do you really need a NEW medal to show that, too? And your "over-40"
exception would actually result in very limited change: most of the cases of
medal events with few participants are in masters divisions.

Once again, as I
and others have said, if you really think this is a problem, participate in the
Gay Games, promote the participation of others, help raise funds for scholarship
participants: the best way to ensure competition for every event is to make sure
there are competitors in every event.
ben   |99.50.149.xxx |2009-08-31 15:06:56
Thankfully, this thread is dying out. I find it kinda sad that this issue was
even brought up. I was at the track the day of the bombing. There were
children and babies at the track. The firebombs could have blinded an adult or
killed a child. I won a gold medal in an event in which I was the only
competitor in my age group. Since age groups are combined, and I raced against
the next younger age group, and beat all but one of them. If you don't think
you deserved a medal because you finished last, then don't take the freakin'
medal. Don't try to deny it to someone else. when you complete a race, you
winner. you beat all the other people who are too cowardly to risk failure.
the only way you lose is if you fail to try. let's stop this pettiness of
trying to tell me, who you know nothing about, whether I deserve a medal or not.
Terry   |142.59.188.xxx |2009-09-03 10:28:29
I competed in the 1st World OutGames and the straight World Masters Games, both
provide gold silver and bronze according to age catagory. This is appropriate
and should continue.

And as I recall both combined age categories into larger
groups so events would be more competitive and to make it interesting.

Why
should anybody run by himself if he could run with a larger group?

There was 2
differences, the Masters noted the over all top achievers, based on an age and
performance formula for each event like discus. Those individuals already won in
their own age categories.

And with the OutGames, all athletic, human rights
conference delegates, and cultural performers received a participation metal.
Mine is proudly on display in my office. I came in 4th with a personal best in
discus in my age category and, that is what my participation metal means to me.


If there are only a few in your age category it means that your age group is
not well represented or your sport event is not one of the most popular. Either
way it is a good idea to support and reward those people to continue to
participate and push their own limits, and to validate the less popular event
they are competing in.

Blessings and Stay active,

Terry
Lars Rains  - Medals promote participation.   |24.45.144.xxx |2009-09-07 06:19:59
I find it a little ironic that Jim refers to me as a decathlete; I always
introduce myself as a hammer thrower, because that is the one field event in
which I look like I know what I am doing.

In Amsterdam, I competed in exactly
one match in wrestling against a teammate who I knew I had no chance of beating,
taking the silver as there was no other competition. I didn't want to have come
all of that way and to have spent all of that money to not participate for the
rest of the week, so I checked out track and field, thinking that I had some
success with the discus in high school. The organizers attempted to deny me my
gold medal in that event because I was the only competitor in my age group.
Thanks to some highly vocal lesbians, they eventually awarded me the gold, if
only to shut them up. Should I have been punished because I was the only male
under 30 to have made the trip overseas?

More importantly, it was in Amsterdam
that I was introduced to the hammer. In that event, the organizers awarded
medals based on combined age-groups and I was given a silver, which I traded for
the bronze at the closing ceremonies because I had thrown the hammer farther
than every male but two and this color meant even more to me than the gold I
should have won and the silver I was awarded. (Taking any medal at my first
hammer event should tell you about the quality of the overall competition, but
the camaraderie of Team Hammer, which included all the women with whom we threw,
is what I remember most about Amsterdam.) I came back home newly inspired and
devoted many hours of training to the throws.

In 2000, I went to the US Masters
National Track and Field Championships in Eugene, Oregon and once again took
home a gold medal "by default", this time in the javelin. (Anyone who
has seen me try to throw the javelin knows just how wrong this was!) I may not
have thrown it far, but this kind of external reinforcement encouraged me to
continue going to several Masters meets in the years that followed, which
provided me with a local and national community of teachers and supporters, all
of whom simply wanted me to throw better, on my own terms.

In Sydney, I
competed in my very first decathlon, once again the only male in my age group
who could afford the long trip down under. As a thrower, I really have no
business competing in this event, but even the Olympic officials in Sydney
thought that it was brilliant that big guys like me were having a go at it. I
was enjoying the friendships that I was developing with the other competitors,
until we got to the hurdles, where I tripped and fell over every single one of
them.

What was quickly becoming the most embarrassing incident of my sporting
life soon turned into an inspirational memory that I will keep with me for the
rest of my life. Most of the spectators in the stands rose and gave me a
standing ovation, cheering me on to the finish line. After surviving my first
attempts at the pole vault, where I jumped over my head (I have the picture to
prove it!) and the excruciating 1500m in the searing, antipodal sun, I claimed
yet another gold medal "by default". The joy on my face while I stood
on the podium reflected my relief that I had tried something new and lived to
talk about it.

In Chicago, I had planned not to compete in the decathlon,
remembering the hurdles fiasco four years before, but my fellow competitors
convinced me to do otherwise. I'm very happy to have made that decision, as
logistical nightmares prevented the hammer competition from being held. Once
again, I earned the lowest point total in the event, claiming a bronze "by
default" this time, but getting over every hurdle without falling once was a
small victory which meant something only to me.

In Copenhagen, I competed in a
total of sixteen events, which included the ten that comprise the decathlon.
Yet again, I was unsure about committing to those two days of pain, as I was
older, heavier, and quite honestly, tired of not competing at the same level as
the rest of the guys. There was only one other athlete in my age group and at
the beginning of the first day, I jokingly informed him that if he stayed
healthy, we would come home with gold.

Surprisingly, we tied in terms of event
wins: he won the three races and the long jump, I got him in the throws and the
pole vault, and we tied in the hurdles and the high jump. He did go on to take
the gold, but for the first time ever, I held my own in this event and was
competitive.

I also took gold in the shot, discus, hammer and pole vault, but I
finally had to beat other people to do it. I wasn't thrilled with my hammer or
my dis...
Lars Rains  - Part 2   |24.45.144.xxx |2009-09-07 06:22:52
More importantly, it was in Amsterdam that I was introduced to the hammer. In
that event, the organizers awarded medals based on combined age-groups and I was
given a silver, which I traded for the bronze at the closing ceremonies because
I had thrown the hammer farther than every male but two and this color meant
even more to me than the gold I should have won and the silver I was awarded.
(Taking any medal at my first hammer event should tell you about the quality of
the overall competition, but the camaraderie of Team Hammer, which included all
the women with whom we threw, is what I remember most about Amsterdam.) I came
back home newly inspired and devoted many hours of training to the throws.

In
2000, I went to the US Masters National Track and Field Championships in Eugene,
Oregon and once again took home a gold medal "by default", this time in
the javelin. (Anyone who has seen me try to throw the javelin knows just how
wrong this was!) I may not have thrown it far, but this kind of external
reinforcement encouraged me to continue going to several Masters meets in the
years that followed, which provided me with a local and national community of
teachers and supporters, all of whom simply wanted me to throw better, on my own
terms.

In Sydney, I competed in my very first decathlon, once again the only
male in my age group who could afford the long trip down under. As a thrower, I
really have no business competing in this event, but even the Olympic officials
in Sydney thought that it was brilliant that big guys like me were having a go
at it. I was enjoying the friendships that I was developing with the other
competitors, until we got to the hurdles, where I tripped and fell over every
single one of them.

What was quickly becoming the most embarrassing incident of
my sporting life soon turned into an inspirational memory that I will keep with
me for the rest of my life. Most of the spectators in the stands rose and gave
me a standing ovation, cheering me on to the finish line. After surviving my
first attempts at the pole vault, where I jumped over my head (I have the
picture to prove it!) and the excruciating 1500m in the searing, antipodal sun,
I claimed yet another gold medal "by default". The joy on my face while
I stood on the podium reflected my relief that I had tried something new and
lived to talk about it.

In Chicago, I had planned not to compete in the
decathlon, remembering the hurdles fiasco four years before, but my fellow
competitors convinced me to do otherwise. I'm very happy to have made that
decision, as logistical nightmares prevented the hammer competition from being
held. Once again, I earned the lowest point total in the event, claiming a
bronze "by default" this time, but getting over every hurdle without
falling once was a small victory which meant something only to me.

In
Copenhagen, I competed in a total of sixteen events, which included the ten that
comprise the decathlon. Yet again, I was unsure about committing to those two
days of pain, as I was older, heavier, and quite honestly, tired of not
competing at the same level as the rest of the guys. There was only one other
athlete in my age group and at the beginning of the first day, I jokingly
informed him that if he stayed healthy, we would come home with
gold.

Surprisingly, we tied in terms of event wins: he won the three races and
the long jump, I got him in the throws and the pole vault, and we tied in the
hurdles and the high jump. He did go on to take the gold, but for the first
time ever, I held my own in this event and was competitive.

I also took gold in
the shot, discus, hammer and pole vault, but I finally had to beat other people
to do it. I wasn't thrilled with my hammer or my discus throws, but did enough
to win. It was in the shot put, however, that I experienced my most meaningful
track competition. There were six other athletes in my age group, which was the
largest at this meet, but only one other thrower who was really at my level.
Normally, there are always a few throwers at a meet who used to throw in college
or at the Junior Olympics whom you have no chance of catching.

This time,
though, we were very evenly matched and he was leading by 2cm until I bested him
on my fifth throw. He matched that mark exactly on his final throw and I would
have been content with both of us receiving gold, except that international
rules, which the organizers in Copenhagen were following fairly closely,
dictates that the second farthest throw comes into play. This meant that he was
once again in the lead by 2cm. Normally, I choke on my last throw when I am
behind, as I t...
Lars Rains  - Part 3   |24.45.144.xxx |2009-09-07 06:23:44
(Anyone who has seen me try to throw the javelin knows just how wrong this was!)
I may not have thrown it far, but this kind of external reinforcement
encouraged me to continue going to several Masters meets in the years that
followed, which provided me with a local and national community of teachers and
supporters, all of whom simply wanted me to throw better, on my own terms.

In
Sydney, I competed in my very first decathlon, once again the only male in my
age group who could afford the long trip down under. As a thrower, I really
have no business competing in this event, but even the Olympic officials in
Sydney thought that it was brilliant that big guys like me were having a go at
it. I was enjoying the friendships that I was developing with the other
competitors, until we got to the hurdles, where I tripped and fell over every
single one of them.

What was quickly becoming the most embarrassing incident of
my sporting life soon turned into an inspirational memory that I will keep with
me for the rest of my life. Most of the spectators in the stands rose and gave
me a standing ovation, cheering me on to the finish line. After surviving my
first attempts at the pole vault, where I jumped over my head (I have the
picture to prove it!) and the excruciating 1500m in the searing, antipodal sun,
I claimed yet another gold medal "by default". The joy on my face while
I stood on the podium reflected my relief that I had tried something new and
lived to talk about it.

In Chicago, I had planned not to compete in the
decathlon, remembering the hurdles fiasco four years before, but my fellow
competitors convinced me to do otherwise. I'm very happy to have made that
decision, as logistical nightmares prevented the hammer competition from being
held. Once again, I earned the lowest point total in the event, claiming a
bronze "by default" this time, but getting over every hurdle without
falling once was a small victory which meant something only to me.

In
Copenhagen, I competed in a total of sixteen events, which included the ten that
comprise the decathlon. Yet again, I was unsure about committing to those two
days of pain, as I was older, heavier, and quite honestly, tired of not
competing at the same level as the rest of the guys. There was only one other
athlete in my age group and at the beginning of the first day, I jokingly
informed him that if he stayed healthy, we would come home with
gold.

Surprisingly, we tied in terms of event wins: he won the three races and
the long jump, I got him in the throws and the pole vault, and we tied in the
hurdles and the high jump. He did go on to take the gold, but for the first
time ever, I held my own in this event and was competitive.

I also took gold in
the shot, discus, hammer and pole vault, but I finally had to beat other people
to do it. I wasn't thrilled with my hammer or my discus throws, but did enough
to win. It was in the shot put, however, that I experienced my most meaningful
track competition. There were six other athletes in my age group, which was the
largest at this meet, but only one other thrower who was really at my level.
Normally, there are always a few throwers at a meet who used to throw in college
or at the Junior Olympics whom you have no chance of catching.

This time,
though, we were very evenly matched and he was leading by 2cm until I bested him
on my fifth throw. He matched that mark exactly on his final throw and I would
have been content with both of us receiving gold, except that international
rules, which the organizers in Copenhagen were following fairly closely,
dictates that the second farthest throw comes into play. This meant that he was
once again in the lead by 2cm. Normally, I choke on my last throw when I am
behind, as I try too hard to make something happen.

Fortunately, for me, I was
feeling very confident and refreshed after scratching the long jump and I pushed
one out there to win the gold by 6cm. After eleven years of competing by myself
or against others with much more talent, I finally got to experience some true
and meaningful competition. I must admit that medals earned while competing
against others do feel pretty special.

However, that doesn't mean that medals
won "by default" are any less valuable than those that are earned. When
I was younger, medals were very important to me and receiving them encouraged me
to continue training. As we get older, though, we start to rely more on
intrinsic motivation and this is why I will be running a lot more before
Cologne. I used to be a little embarrassed about winning medals just for
showing up, but if I hadn't showed up in the ...
Lars Rains  - Part 4   |24.45.144.xxx |2009-09-07 06:24:58
What was quickly becoming the most embarrassing incident of my sporting life
soon turned into an inspirational memory that I will keep with me for the rest
of my life. Most of the spectators in the stands rose and gave me a standing
ovation, cheering me on to the finish line. After surviving my first attempts
at the pole vault, where I jumped over my head (I have the picture to prove it!)
and the excruciating 1500m in the searing, antipodal sun, I claimed yet another
gold medal "by default". The joy on my face while I stood on the podium
reflected my relief that I had tried something new and lived to talk about
it.

In Chicago, I had planned not to compete in the decathlon, remembering the
hurdles fiasco four years before, but my fellow competitors convinced me to do
otherwise. I'm very happy to have made that decision, as logistical nightmares
prevented the hammer competition from being held. Once again, I earned the
lowest point total in the event, claiming a bronze "by default" this
time, but getting over every hurdle without falling once was a small victory
which meant something only to me.

In Copenhagen, I competed in a total of
sixteen events, which included the ten that comprise the decathlon. Yet again,
I was unsure about committing to those two days of pain, as I was older,
heavier, and quite honestly, tired of not competing at the same level as the
rest of the guys. There was only one other athlete in my age group and at the
beginning of the first day, I jokingly informed him that if he stayed healthy,
we would come home with gold.

Surprisingly, we tied in terms of event wins: he
won the three races and the long jump, I got him in the throws and the pole
vault, and we tied in the hurdles and the high jump. He did go on to take the
gold, but for the first time ever, I held my own in this event and was
competitive.

I also took gold in the shot, discus, hammer and pole vault, but I
finally had to beat other people to do it. I wasn't thrilled with my hammer or
my discus throws, but did enough to win. It was in the shot put, however, that
I experienced my most meaningful track competition. There were six other
athletes in my age group, which was the largest at this meet, but only one other
thrower who was really at my level. Normally, there are always a few throwers
at a meet who used to throw in college or at the Junior Olympics whom you have
no chance of catching.

This time, though, we were very evenly matched and he
was leading by 2cm until I bested him on my fifth throw. He matched that mark
exactly on his final throw and I would have been content with both of us
receiving gold, except that international rules, which the organizers in
Copenhagen were following fairly closely, dictates that the second farthest
throw comes into play. This meant that he was once again in the lead by 2cm.
Normally, I choke on my last throw when I am behind, as I try too hard to make
something happen.

Fortunately, for me, I was feeling very confident and
refreshed after scratching the long jump and I pushed one out there to win the
gold by 6cm. After eleven years of competing by myself or against others with
much more talent, I finally got to experience some true and meaningful
competition. I must admit that medals earned while competing against others do
feel pretty special.

However, that doesn't mean that medals won "by
default" are any less valuable than those that are earned. When I was
younger, medals were very important to me and receiving them encouraged me to
continue training. As we get older, though, we start to rely more on intrinsic
motivation and this is why I will be running a lot more before Cologne. I used
to be a little embarrassed about winning medals just for showing up, but if I
hadn't showed up in the first place, I wouldn't be where I am today.

If I
hadn't have tried the decathlon in Sydney, I would have never experienced the
exhilarating thrill of the pole vault or have developed my
"bull-in-the-china-shop" hurdles technique. In Copenhagen, I competed
in every field event simply because I wanted to try everything and improve on my
personal records.

Several people there told me that they found me inspiring
precisely because I try things at which I shouldn't be (and am really not all
that) good; they admire the fact that I enjoy competing, whether I win a medal
or not. The most fun that I had in Copenhagen, though, was coaching, trying to
share the knowledge and wisdom that I have acquired over the years. I
especially enjoyed trying to recruit an old quarterback and welcome him into the
community of throwers, and track and field athletes in...
Lars Rains  - Part 5   |24.45.144.xxx |2009-09-07 06:25:31
Once again, I earned the lowest point total in the event, claiming a bronze
"by default" this time, but getting over every hurdle without falling
once was a small victory which meant something only to me.

In Copenhagen, I
competed in a total of sixteen events, which included the ten that comprise the
decathlon. Yet again, I was unsure about committing to those two days of pain,
as I was older, heavier, and quite honestly, tired of not competing at the same
level as the rest of the guys. There was only one other athlete in my age group
and at the beginning of the first day, I jokingly informed him that if he stayed
healthy, we would come home with gold.

Surprisingly, we tied in terms of event
wins: he won the three races and the long jump, I got him in the throws and the
pole vault, and we tied in the hurdles and the high jump. He did go on to take
the gold, but for the first time ever, I held my own in this event and was
competitive.

I also took gold in the shot, discus, hammer and pole vault, but I
finally had to beat other people to do it. I wasn't thrilled with my hammer or
my discus throws, but did enough to win. It was in the shot put, however, that
I experienced my most meaningful track competition. There were six other
athletes in my age group, which was the largest at this meet, but only one other
thrower who was really at my level. Normally, there are always a few throwers
at a meet who used to throw in college or at the Junior Olympics whom you have
no chance of catching.

This time, though, we were very evenly matched and he
was leading by 2cm until I bested him on my fifth throw. He matched that mark
exactly on his final throw and I would have been content with both of us
receiving gold, except that international rules, which the organizers in
Copenhagen were following fairly closely, dictates that the second farthest
throw comes into play. This meant that he was once again in the lead by 2cm.
Normally, I choke on my last throw when I am behind, as I try too hard to make
something happen.

Fortunately, for me, I was feeling very confident and
refreshed after scratching the long jump and I pushed one out there to win the
gold by 6cm. After eleven years of competing by myself or against others with
much more talent, I finally got to experience some true and meaningful
competition. I must admit that medals earned while competing against others do
feel pretty special.

However, that doesn't mean that medals won "by
default" are any less valuable than those that are earned. When I was
younger, medals were very important to me and receiving them encouraged me to
continue training. As we get older, though, we start to rely more on intrinsic
motivation and this is why I will be running a lot more before Cologne. I used
to be a little embarrassed about winning medals just for showing up, but if I
hadn't showed up in the first place, I wouldn't be where I am today.

If I
hadn't have tried the decathlon in Sydney, I would have never experienced the
exhilarating thrill of the pole vault or have developed my
"bull-in-the-china-shop" hurdles technique. In Copenhagen, I competed
in every field event simply because I wanted to try everything and improve on my
personal records.

Several people there told me that they found me inspiring
precisely because I try things at which I shouldn't be (and am really not all
that) good; they admire the fact that I enjoy competing, whether I win a medal
or not. The most fun that I had in Copenhagen, though, was coaching, trying to
share the knowledge and wisdom that I have acquired over the years. I
especially enjoyed trying to recruit an old quarterback and welcome him into the
community of throwers, and track and field athletes in general.
Lars Rains  - Part 6   |24.45.144.xxx |2009-09-07 06:26:25
I held my own in this event and was competitive.

I also took gold in the shot,
discus, hammer and pole vault, but I finally had to beat other people to do it.
I wasn't thrilled with my hammer or my discus throws, but did enough to win. It
was in the shot put, however, that I experienced my most meaningful track
competition. There were six other athletes in my age group, which was the
largest at this meet, but only one other thrower who was really at my level.
Normally, there are always a few throwers at a meet who used to throw in college
or at the Junior Olympics whom you have no chance of catching.

This time,
though, we were very evenly matched and he was leading by 2cm until I bested him
on my fifth throw. He matched that mark exactly on his final throw and I would
have been content with both of us receiving gold, except that international
rules, which the organizers in Copenhagen were following fairly closely,
dictates that the second farthest throw comes into play. This meant that he was
once again in the lead by 2cm. Normally, I choke on my last throw when I am
behind, as I try too hard to make something happen.

Fortunately, for me, I was
feeling very confident and refreshed after scratching the long jump and I pushed
one out there to win the gold by 6cm. After eleven years of competing by myself
or against others with much more talent, I finally got to experience some true
and meaningful competition. I must admit that medals earned while competing
against others do feel pretty special.

However, that doesn't mean that medals
won "by default" are any less valuable than those that are earned. When
I was younger, medals were very important to me and receiving them encouraged me
to continue training. As we get older, though, we start to rely more on
intrinsic motivation and this is why I will be running a lot more before
Cologne. I used to be a little embarrassed about winning medals just for
showing up, but if I hadn't showed up in the first place, I wouldn't be where I
am today.

If I hadn't have tried the decathlon in Sydney, I would have never
experienced the exhilarating thrill of the pole vault or have developed my
"bull-in-the-china-shop" hurdles technique. In Copenhagen, I competed
in every field event simply because I wanted to try everything and improve on my
personal records.

Several people there told me that they found me inspiring
precisely because I try things at which I shouldn't be (and am really not all
that) good; they admire the fact that I enjoy competing, whether I win a medal
or not. The most fun that I had in Copenhagen, though, was coaching, trying to
share the knowledge and wisdom that I have acquired over the years. I
especially enjoyed trying to recruit an old quarterback and welcome him into the
community of throwers, and track and field athletes in general.
Lars Rains  - Part 7   |24.45.144.xxx |2009-09-07 06:27:02
dictates that the second farthest throw comes into play. This meant that he was
once again in the lead by 2cm. Normally, I choke on my last throw when I am
behind, as I try too hard to make something happen.

Fortunately, for me, I was
feeling very confident and refreshed after scratching the long jump and I pushed
one out there to win the gold by 6cm. After eleven years of competing by myself
or against others with much more talent, I finally got to experience some true
and meaningful competition. I must admit that medals earned while competing
against others do feel pretty special.

However, that doesn't mean that medals
won "by default" are any less valuable than those that are earned. When
I was younger, medals were very important to me and receiving them encouraged me
to continue training. As we get older, though, we start to rely more on
intrinsic motivation and this is why I will be running a lot more before
Cologne. I used to be a little embarrassed about winning medals just for
showing up, but if I hadn't showed up in the first place, I wouldn't be where I
am today.

If I hadn't have tried the decathlon in Sydney, I would have never
experienced the exhilarating thrill of the pole vault or have developed my
"bull-in-the-china-shop" hurdles technique. In Copenhagen, I competed
in every field event simply because I wanted to try everything and improve on my
personal records.

Several people there told me that they found me inspiring
precisely because I try things at which I shouldn't be (and am really not all
that) good; they admire the fact that I enjoy competing, whether I win a medal
or not. The most fun that I had in Copenhagen, though, was coaching, trying to
share the knowledge and wisdom that I have acquired over the years. I
especially enjoyed trying to recruit an old quarterback and welcome him into the
community of throwers, and track and field athletes in general.
Lars Rains  - Part 8   |24.45.144.xxx |2009-09-07 06:27:37
before Cologne. I used to be a little embarrassed about winning medals just for
showing up, but if I hadn't showed up in the first place, I wouldn't be where I
am today.

If I hadn't have tried the decathlon in Sydney, I would have never
experienced the exhilarating thrill of the pole vault or have developed my
"bull-in-the-china-shop" hurdles technique. In Copenhagen, I competed
in every field event simply because I wanted to try everything and improve on my
personal records.

Several people there told me that they found me inspiring
precisely because I try things at which I shouldn't be (and am really not all
that) good; they admire the fact that I enjoy competing, whether I win a medal
or not. The most fun that I had in Copenhagen, though, was coaching, trying to
share the knowledge and wisdom that I have acquired over the years. I
especially enjoyed trying to recruit an old quarterback and welcome him into the
community of throwers, and track and field athletes in general.
Lars Rains  - Part 9   |24.45.144.xxx |2009-09-07 06:28:19
community of throwers, and track and field athletes in general.

Lars Rains
Team
New York
Steve Heyl  - Same straight competition   |68.8.203.xxx |2009-09-08 14:45:45
In several 'straight' powerlifting competitions, I have received a medal because
there were only one or two people in my age and weight group, so I don't see
what the fuss is about.

Even if there is no one else in your class, you still
have to complete the event according to the rules in order to get a medal. For
powerlifting, that means things like getting deep enough on the squat. If you
can't get depth, you will not complete the meet (and therefore not get a medal)
no matter what the weight is on the bar. Yes it is possible for someone to walk
up to the platform having never practiced and still get a medal, but it is
unlikely.

I trained for two years for my first Gay Games (Amsterdam). When I
got there, there was no one else in my weight class. With some of the strictest
judging I'd ever encountered, I still set personal bests in two lifts and my
total; I earned that medal just as much as I have earned others when there were
10 people in my class.

Medals should be given out according to the rules of the
sport. If that means some people get 'easy' medals, so be it. I still don't see
any reason to change that.
Kelly Stevens  - Officer of Communications - FGG   |24.17.55.xxx |2009-09-11 20:45:22
I sure missed this group discussion. Great opinions and thoughts.

I will
only speak to my personal experience. I ran in Chicago Gay Games and Montreal
Outgames. 10K and 5000m track.

I only ran with 3 other men in my age group in
Chicago in the 5000m track event. There were 4 total. I took the Silver and I
have photos that day that show my smile bigger than ever.

I trained, lost
14lbs (6kg), gave up beer and sugar for 4 months. It was my first track event
as an adult.

The medals are a feel good thing. I hope we never limit them.
Woody  - All valid views   |67.234.176.xxx |2009-09-17 09:59:34
Very good discussion. I'm ok with Jim's suggestion to limit medals to actual
competition. But I do think the current system does encourage and motivate
people. Some of us have baggage from our youth to overcome. Some of us are new
to athletic competition in middle age or later. The medals mean different
things to different people. In some cases the medal is an important symbol with
a very personal meaning to the recipient, regardless of the lack of competition.
Personally I love to watch the older athletes being awarded their medals. I
think it is important for the younger athletes to see this as well, to know they
can continue to train and remain fit and enjoy these competitions throughout
life, regardless of how many show up in their age group.
ben   |99.50.134.xxx |2009-09-30 15:42:55
Please explain to me. If I am the only one in my age group, why I am not a real
competitor?
Ozwald   |213.164.30.xxx |2009-11-15 06:33:41
The real scandal is in figure skating. In the Gay Games, it's not even
according to age group, it seems they open up a new "category" as soon
as there are 3 competitors, so basically everyone is assured of winning a medal.
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